Attention G-Loomis Experts!

[WAeyes]

All this talk about G-Loomis rods has finally pushed me over the edge.....I am ready to buy my first Loomis rod. My question is which one to start with? The GLX is definately out of the question due to price. The IMX may be an option if you have a strong enough argument that it is that much better than the GL3. The GL3 is probably my choice right now. I am not sure if the GL2 is any better than the rods I have now, basically good graphite rods up to $90 or so. I can not find any info on graphite modulus for G-Loomis rods, although I'm sure they are high. Does anyone know? I will be using the rod mostly for casting jigs and plugs with a spinning reel. Thanks for all pertinent information.

[ETT (AKA Loomis Pro Staffer)]

The GL3 rods are without a doubt the best bang for the buck. And a good choice for a blood and guts fisherman. They are just tougher than the high end rods. I'm not going to suggest a specific rod, but buy the rod that you will use a majority of the time. You might look at either the spin jig line (SJ series). SJ 782 GL3 - $168.00 would be one choice, or the walleye line WJR 742S - $204.00. might be an other. It is hard not to push a personal favorite and the SJ 782 is just that, for me. One of the most versatile rods for 6 - 8 pound line. Their web site is www.gloomis.com and the full catalog is there. Good luck and let me know if I can help.

[chadk66]

hey ETT,
I have a SJR722 GL2. I use it for pullin rigs mostly. I really love the rod. It is a baitcaster however, and am wanting to step up to a GL3 or IMX spinning rod. I will use it pretty much for bottom bouncing also. What would you recommend for that use, there is so many to choose from it's confusing. I'm thinking not longer than 6'6" though. thanks
chad

[WAeyes]

Thanks ETT, although you are on their Pro Staff, I value your opinion on this because I had already made up my mind on a G-Loomis and also because of your reputation for information on this board. The 782 was my choice as well, due to the length and line/lure wt. recommendations. Glad to hear that you think it is a good versatile rod because I will be using it for different applications at times. No trolling though.

[ETT]

It is great rod for knosking around a pond. Long enough to help throw the small stuff, but enough guts to deal with fairly large fish. spinners, jigs, soft plastics, small spinner or buzz baits, twitch lures,a nd small to medium cranks are no problem. Hope you like it!! (I'm certain you will)

[ETT]

There are too many unanswered questions for me to steer you straight. What wt. boumcers & line are going to be using. On the circuit many use the HSR 9000 for bouncers, but it's 81/2' long. They put em in rod holders and watch for tips to show a bit. You must be thinking of holding the rod, and in that case the SJR 782 GL3 may be your best bet as well. Just make sure you don't go over 12# line. Frankly you'd be better off with a longer softer rod, but they are all over 61/2'. It might work out fine if you fish fairly snag free areas with bouncers 1-1/2 oz or lighter. Good luck.

[Jeff]

Have you considered getting the rod custom built?

I think the one factor involved with Loomis rods that is often overlooked is the other components on the factory built rods. I just don't think the guides match up in quality with the blanks. The blanks can be debated, but from a component stand point off the rack St. Croix Legend Elites beat IMX hands down. Loomis is using Fuji stuff now, but not the same grade as St. Croix uses.

My point is not to push St. Croix. But instead to say, if you are going to spend the money on a great rod why not get it built exactly how you want it?

[ETT]

Good point. If there is a special type handle or reel seat wanted, custom is great. I built rods for 15 years until my eyes went over the hill. But for working rods, where the art part of rod building is not an issue, factory rods seem to me to be better because they are warranteed and replaced complete by the factory if a problem occurs. Even broken by accidental abuse, the factory is going to get you a new rod at WAY below the normal price. Brake a custom rod and they are going to replace the blank and someone has to rebuilt it. Tnis is not a knock on rod builders, not at all. It's just something to consider.

[WAeyes]

ETT, I am curious what the graphite modulus count is on the G-Loomis rods, especially the GL3 and the IMX. Can you find this information for me? Also, in response to Jeff's post, what is the difference between the guides on the St. Croix and the G-Loomis in the same price category? Thanks

[ETT]

Modulus is an often used and seldom understood term that allot of rod companies use. Sometimes to misguide the public. G Loomis used to publisize the modulus figures, but doesn't anymore. I suppose if you'd call 1 800 GLoomis, and asked for customer service, you might be able to get an answer. I do not know or I'd say. Modulus can be too high causing the blank to be brittle, and easily broken. Gary Loomis took about 45 minutes to explain the whole situation to a group of pro-staffers, but most of it was over my head. Sorry, not much help.

[ETT]

So far as the guides are concerned, I'm not possitive but I fairly sure the guide sets on the 2 rods are comparable in price. I'm sure someone will correct me if I am mistaken.

[Jeff]

St. Croix Avids use Fuji New Concept Alconite guides and Legend Elites use Fuji New Concept titanium plated frame SIC guides. I believe that Loomis factory built rods now use Fuji Hardaloy. Basically one step down from the Alconite and two step down from the SIC guides.

Hardaloy guides are really adequate for freshwater fishing, but they are heavier than the Alconite or SIC guides. In my opinion if maxing sensitivity is the issue and we are splitting hairs anyway, the lighter guides will contribute to a more sensitive rod.

I also prefer the Fuji New Concept guide spacing which St. Croix, Falcon and others use but Loomis does not. There is some debate over the merits of the New Concept spacing, but there are a lot of rod builders that do feel it is superior.

The point about replacement of factory rods being quicker is a good one. However, if time in getting the replacement is not an issue you can find builders that warranty their work and will rewrap if the factory replaces the blank.

[WAeyes]

Inteesting Jeff, kind of surprising such an expensive rod would not be using the highest quality of guides. Do the guides affect the sensitivity that much? I thought it was more about how the line went through them during the cast. Also, how would these guides hold up to the Fireline and Power Pro lines?

[aurora]

i remember reading in an older in-fisherman magazine once that the modulus of the IMX was around 59,000,000.

[Jeff]

While Loomis does not use the grade of guides St. Croix does they have in fact done an upgrade! In the past they used Pacific Bay Hialoy guides, the same guides as used on St. Croix Premiers. Serviceable guides, just not top of line like the blanks are. Only after St. Croix came out with Legend Elite did Loomis look to upgrade to Fuji components. A little competition seems to be a good thing.

The guides Loomis uses will definately stand up to super lines. In fact under freshwater conditions they are very good guides. If fishing saltwater, hard running fish like bonefish, the heat disapating ability of SIC guides is a huge advantage. Obviously even a lunker walleye doesn't put that kind of strain on a guide.

The guides major impact on sensitivity is weight. All things equal a lighter finished rod will be more sensitive than a heavier one. Part of the theory behind the Fuji New Concept system is that you use more and lighter guides. You can read more about this at www.fujitackle.com. Some say New Concept is just a ploy for Fuji to sell more guides. Maybe, but if we are looking for maximum performance I think it is worth looking at. My personal opinion is that is an upgrade.

I will admit this is all splitting hairs. But I think when you are looking at rods in the $150+ range you are splitting hairs anyway and personal preferences like handles and guides are at least as important any differences in blank sensitivity. The Loomis factory rods are good, no doubt. I do think that a custom builder for a similar price can max out the capabilities of a rod blank.

[WAeyes]

If that is true, which it very well could be, then it is not necessarily true that the higher the graphite modulus the higher the price of the rod? Isn't this the main key to sensitivity of a rod?

[WAeyes]

Jeff, you seem to know your Fuji guides so I have researched this question for you. I have found 4 different types of Fuji guides. I will list them in order of highest quality first. SIC titanium, SIC silicone carbide, hardloy, aluminum oxide. Is this an accurate statement? Alot of the rods in the catalogs dont list which type of Fuji guides they use. Would Fuji give you that information? Also, are you saying that just because a rod has Fuji guides, they dont necessarily use the guide size and spacing concept?

[ETT]

Fuji may not know a particular manufactures practice, but the manufactures themselves or the dealers should be able to tell you. If they're using top end guides the addvertising will call that out. Beware of copycat lookalike cheap imitations on import rods. Good luck, and thanks Jeff for the detailed info.

[WAeyes]

I think you are right about misguiding the public. Probably the 2 most reputable in quality rods, ( Loomis and St. Croix) do not list the modulus count of their rods. Most all the other rod companys, especially the rods in Bass Pro, list the graphite modulus. Does that mean an IM6 rod has the quality of an HM85 rod? I doubt it, but most rods increase in price as modulus goes up. If an IMX has only 59 million moudulus then nothing makes sense to me. If I can buy a rod for $75 less than an IMX that has 85 million modulus count and Fuji titanium concept guides, (Johnny Morris XPS in Bass Pro) then why am I even considering a G-Loomis rod? I feel like a misguided "Joe Public". Someone shed some light please.

[WAeyes]

Thanks ETT, I will research that through the rod manufacturers.

[ETT]

call Loomis, when you get the run around , ask for Gary personally, or email them your question. Then post their reply. Don't be too shocked if you talk with the man. That's the way he likes to do bussiness. I was at a show with Gary one time when he went to the back of the booth with a 18 or 19 year old kid and spent 2 hours back there talking to the guy. When the huddle finally broke up, I asked him what that was all about, figuring it had to with a rod problem; no way, the college kid was on the verg of dropping out and Gary spent 2 hours changing his mind. It made his show, and had nothing to do with fishin. He is a people kinda guy.

[Goldpig]

The modulus of a graphite rod being directly related to the sensitivity is somewhat of a mis-nomer. Modulus, in this case, refers to the modulus of elasticity. This is a ratio of unit stress to unit strain within the proportional limit of a material in shear. Therefore, it is telling us the mechanical properties of a material based on tests. The higher the modulus of a given material the more rigid it is, lighter, and more expensive. However, every rod manufacturer has different methods of "weaving" the fibers. The direction of the grain relative to the force makes a big difference, and affects sensitivity. My point is that not listing the modulus of a given rod could be construed as an attempt not to mislead the consumer. This is because a high modulus of material does not necessarily mean it will be the most sensitive rod based on how manufactured. For example, take two rods with the same modulus, one being six feet long with a minimal wall thickness, and a eight foot rod that is solid. The short rod will certainly be more sensitive. Not to mention that this arbitrary number given to the material based on some test means little or nothing to the general public.

[WAeyes]

I just e-mailed him on graphite modulus and Fuji guide questions for his rods. I will post his answers.

[WAeyes]

I think I understand what you are saying but am still a little confused. In general the higher the modulus, the higher the price but not necessarily the most sensitive? A lower modulus can be more sensitive than a higher one depending on the way they put together the fibers? Maybe the best way to keep this less confusing is to say the higher the sensitivity, the higher the price. Anyone agree with that?

[ChuckTuna]

Buy yourself a Snoopy Rod. A bigger bang for the buck.

[WAeyes]

I might have to buy a Snoopy rod after what I found out today. My Shimano Stradic reels will not fit properly on a G-Loomis spinning rod. The reel seat adjustor ring will not fit over my reel stem. It can be forced over it but the ring looks like it is about to break and it looks cross-threaded. It is sketchy at best and I think the reel would eventually pull out and/or the adjustor ring would break. Too bad, the rod felt great. I did find one St. Croix Avid to look at. The reel fit fine on it and the rod felt great also except for one thing. When you grab onto the rod and reel together, you feel the reel stem and the adjustor rings but your hand does not contact the cork handle. Call me picky but I like to feel the reel and the cork, not the adjustor rings. Maybe Jeff was right about getting a custom rod built to your own specs.

[jj]

hey Ett, probably a typo but my HS 9000 is 7.5 feet long, and I would have to disagree with the botttom bouncer aspect. It is way to sweet to have a couple oz's of lead hanging off it. Much better suited for rigging and casting light jigs a long ways on light line. Maybe you can answer a question for me. Why, when you send a broken blank back to Loomis, for replacement, do they crush the blank in places, so you cannot fix it, by sleeving it or replacing the tip. I have had some returned that had custom wraps on them, works of art really, and they crushed the blank.

[Bigfish]

I had the same problem with my Stradic on a 641 IMX, but it has looked terrible for two years and caught a lot of fish with no hint of loosening up??

cw

[ETT]

They do destructive tests on the blanks returned as quality control testing, to check wall thickness and hoop strength. If you have a fancy butt wrap ,tell them and they'll give you permission to cut the blank above your fancy work, and save it for samples or for shows.

[JJ]

I would guess they could see there was a wrap on the rod unless they are working in the dark. None of the rods that have been sent in have had problems in the butt section where the wrap was. Also I think the method you were talking about earlier was dead sticking with the rod in the holder watching the tip for a bite. 7x12=84 + 6 = 90

[ETT]

Thanks Jeff for pointing that out. You're right on the length, and right about the dead sticking as well. The HSR 9000 is a very versatile rod, with nearly unbelievable power in the butt, for the softness (sweatness) of the tip. Thanks again.

[REW]

If you compare your reel, to many other reels, you will find that the reel seat -- mounting tabs are much thicker on this reel than many other makes.

Because, I had the very same problem as you stated -- I simply took the spool off the reel, and then went after the reel seat mounting bars on the reel, and ground them down.

By using a 8 inch bench grinder, you can keep the same radius as will match the reel seats.
Simply thin the reel mounting ears, until, the reel mounts nicely on the rod. I suspect that there is a considerable amount of extra material on the reel, than what is needed to keep it from breaking.

I have sound my Shimano reels to be the only ones having this problem. After grinding them down - and basically matching my other brand reels, they mount nicely on the rods, and feel great.

I always do a final polish on the seats with a felt polishing wheel, and polishing compound -- look and feel better than when new.

Take care

REW

[WAeyes]

Thanks for the idea REW but I couldn't ever get myself to grind on a $100 plus reel. If there would be a way to screw it up, I would do it. I think I will look at Fig Rig rods or maybe have a custom handle put on a G-Loomis or St. Croix. I wonder why Shimano makes a reel that wont fit on a G-Loomis rod? Or should I say I wonder why G-Loomis wont make a reel seat to fit a Shimano spinning reel? Whatever it is I think I want a handle that uses the front cork as the reel seat to cinch down the reel. Not sure if that made sense but all I want to feel with my hand is the reel and cork, no rings or threaded seat areas. Is there a particular name for this type of handle and reel seat?