Pinpoint GPS

[Hans]

At the Minneapolis Boat Show yesterday I wandered into the MotorGuide booth to ask about the GPS addition to the 7520 that we've been hearing rumors of.

The guy in the booth was pretty evasive (typical marketing dink) saying "this spring", but when pinned down to date/price, he said "prototypes maybe this spring", general public availability unknown but certainly no earlier that spring of 2002, and he would not venture any estimate on the price (either of the new unit, or cost to upgrade existing unit).

My impression from this guys body language and the general climate in the booth, plus the products they were "featuring", is that PinPoint is at best a cash-cow, and is in harvest mode at MotorGuide.

What a shame.

Hans

[Doc_wi]

As far as I can recall in the year 2001 Pinpoint has introduced 2 new models that fill a previous void in their product line of available sonar units. Both size and price range were addressed with the introduction of the new 7420 and the 7320. Also the integrating of the Pinpoint transducer in to a number of MotorGuide trolling motors and the move into a new and seperate facility were the focal point is my understanding. The GPS unit has been long awaited and the "rumors" have been rampant as to it's introduction date. I don't think that putting a list of other projects in front of introducing the GPS was wrong. I also think that getting organized under a new ownership that has already expanded the product line was most important. I would think that the introduction of a lower priced, networkable Pinpoint sonar, and MotorGuide trolling motors with built in transducers was more important then it is for the GPS right at this point. From my seat it looks like things are getting better for Pinpoint, customer confidence and name recognition is growing along with available product line. You sure read a lot into a few minutes with a guy with who you have no idea as to his actuall level of involvment within the company. As far as reading his body language and knowing the state of the company that he represents, you are GOING to have to teach me that one. Maybe you were just standing on his toes.

Doc

[ND]

Your'e not looking at the needs of Pinpoint owners. Especially long term owners.Those that invested in the system and have been looking to further improve their capabilities.
It is a disapointment and I'm afraid Pinpoint is going to lose its edge as a uniqe system and its loyal followers.
I understand that TR-1 has found a less expensive gyro and has plans.
See what happens.

[Kaz]

Hans: Why not get the boys in R&D over at your place to come up with a interface to match the Lowrance GlobalMap 100 to the PinPoint. If not, we could "haywire" something to work. I'm help you market it. Then we can test it and write off our expenses when we go fishing.....Kaz

[Hans]

Doc,

I was just reporting my impressions. I have over $2,500 invested in my PinPoint system, and they have been teasing with rumors of a GPS for over a year now. It's something of a disappointment to hear that it is at least ANOTHER year away yet.

As far as the "new" models, they are just cost reduced versions of the existing models, using cheaper LCD's, etc. No new capabilities were introduced, and the "new" models are actually less capable than previous models.

The guy in the booth wasn't even interested in talking about PinPoint; he just wanted to show me the new MotorGuide TM's even after I deliberately led the conversation back to PinPoint.

Hans

[Hans]

Hey, good idea! I got a couple of old Raytheon engineers around here -- with your money and my brains we could do a real nice design -- how 'bout we coat it with titanium dioxide so it won't absorb UV and lenthen the life of the thing!

Hans

[delque]

minneapolis boat show- Reeds booth, heard to stay away from the 3700 pinpoint motor, and go with the 2700--the older model was better due to quality componets, the 3700 has lesser quality componets---am going to improve my electronics this year, was convinced pinpoint was the way to go on following contours, but now i wonder about the dilution effect of motorguide buying out pinpoint, how it will play out as far as weakening research,development and improvement for pinpoint--or if the combination of the two will eventually produce an better system.
plan on keeping abreast of this situation before i finally take the plunge$, this site will be an important part of that determination. thanks fishermen

[delque]

minneapolis boat show- Reeds booth, heard to stay away from the 3700 pinpoint motor, and go with the 2700--the older model was better due to quality componets, the 3700 has lesser quality componets---am going to improve my electronics this year, was convinced pinpoint was the way to go on following contours, but now i wonder about the dilution effect of motorguide buying out pinpoint, how it will play out as far as weakening research,development and improvement for pinpoint--or if the combination of the two will eventually produce an better system.
plan on keeping abreast of this situation before i finally take the plunge$, this site will be an important part of that determination. thanks fishermen

[delque]

minneapolis boat show- Reeds booth, heard to stay away from the 3700 pinpoint motor, and go with the 2700--the older model was better due to quality componets, the 3700 has lesser quality componets---am going to improve my electronics this year, was convinced pinpoint was the way to go on following contours, but now i wonder about the dilution effect of motorguide buying out pinpoint, how it will play out as far as weakening research,development and improvement for pinpoint--or if the combination of the two will eventually produce an better system.
plan on keeping abreast of this situation before i finally take the plunge$, this site will be an important part of that determination. thanks fishermen

[Todd_NE]

Doc,

Would you clarify for me and others your interest in Pinpoint? Do you own and operate Pinpoint equipment, and if so, are you sponsored by Pinpoint?

I run two 7520's and they're fabulous, love them to death. But to be honest, this "promise" of a GPS has certainly hurt more than helped Pinpoint in any way.

Todd

[Hans]

You heard wrong..... the 2xxx and 3xxx series PinPoints are all part of the same design cycle. Somebody is bull****ting you.

Hans

[Prchjerker]

There are a hand full of proto types out.Theyre going to be tested extensively in the south and some in the North to get all the bugs out of the mapping part.

[Grampa_Joe]

Hans,
I was working in the Pinpoint booth on Friday and I wish it would have been me you talked to. I'm not sure who you talked to, but I'm guessing it was a Motorguide pro-staffer who probably didn't have the right information.
I talked to Dallas personally and was told there would be no GPS until next year for the general public. They are testing this year.

-Joe Carlson

[Hans]

Hi Joe,

Thanks.

I looked for you at Frankies booth, wuz gonna buy you a beer, but you weren't there so I drank them both myself.

Hans

[Grampa_Joe]

So'k I was too sick to drink a beer anyway!

-Joe

[kaz]

Hans: Sounds good!!! The TI-O2 may help too. I though you were going south to catch some WALLEYE ??? I'm headed for FL. for some bass. Catch you on 20. I'll have a fishing rpt. 73' Dick

[Bill Coomes]

With Cabela's selling the Pinpoint 7500 @ $200 less than regular price ($399 as opposed to $599), does this mean the 7500 is being dicontinued? Or is Cabela's just getting rid of their stock and/or discontinuing Pinpoint products?

[Brian/MN]

The 00 series graphs are indeed being discontinued. The advantage to using all 20 series graphs in your Pinpoint network is that everything will be interchangeable. The 00 series graphs only worked when connected to a Pinpoint motor.

[Doc_wi]

Yes I own and operate a complete Pinpoint system and yes they do give me a discount as a guide and outdoor writer. Just so you are clear I BUY my Pinpoint equipment and GIVE AWAY the Lowrance graph that comes with my Triton 205. I could save a bunch of money buy running what comes stock with my boat, but choose to invest the money in a system that helps me catch fish. Contrary to popular belief on the board in regards to "pro staff" opinions, I personally do not adhear to the "company line" and I don't receive money endorsments like some of the guys who fish tournaments. I TOO am a consumer and because I fish for a portion of my living my equipment choices are very important to me. I wouldn't use something that I didn't like and wouldn't promote something just to do so. Anyone who doesn't believe that doesn't know ANYTHING about what I am made of. I get offers to promote, use or endorse many many products over a years time but will only use what I like and speak highly of products that are due such praise.

Doc

[Bill Coomes]

Brian,

Thanks for the response.

Will the 7500 be upgradeable to GPS when it comes out next year?

[Todd_NE]

Doc,

Perhaps I'm the only one who feels this way, but I believe the second you or I take on a business relationship with a company it does change things. People who represent, take a discount on, or own a piece of a product SHOULD make that clear when they give opinions to others here or anywhere.

I don't discount your opinion at all and I for one appreciate your input here on the board, but it does help clarify what value your, my, anyone's opinion has - good or bad.

For example, I think people who represent products are MORE valuable and objective, prevailing opinion at times is opposite, but I give more credence to the guy or gal laying his name on the line with a product.

I didn't intend to, nor do I hope I offended you. Peace.

Todd Consbruck

[Hans]

Not sure why my opinion pisses you off, Doc.

I have a lot of money invested in PinPoint equipment, and the fact that they introduced some new cheaper sonar is of no interest to me. I already have a great 7520 sonar - I want a GPS to go with it.

I could care less if they now put transducers in MotorGuide TM's. I am not in the market for a MotorGuide TM. I am in the market for a GPS.

If the guy in the booth worked for me, he'd have been fired for attempting to "bs" a customer rather than address their questions.

Hans

[Doc_wi]

Hans,
Your opinion doesn't piss me off in the least. Having everything that I need from Pinpoint except a GPS is exactly the shoes I stand in also. I just posted what I know about the situation from my discussions with them and then made a comment in regards to how you formed your opinion and even added a little joke at the end. Ohhh I suppose I should have used one of those little smiley faces, but the need for that has always escaped me. I too sit here and wonder about what I will do about a GPS for this fishing season and hope that Pinpoint puts a few more logs under the fire on that project. To me, anything else would be an excuse. As far as your 2 cents on the sonar units, I think you are wrong. The new 7420 and 7320 fill a void in the product line in both size and price and the units are full featured like the original units. Network, multi-transducer reading, review, max auto gain, night view, flashchart, In-sync capable, 3000 watts etc etc.

I know YOU are not in the market for such things as those and a Motorguide trolling motor and niether am I, but a company can only do so many things at one time. I've seen big companies spend THOUSANDS of dollars fixing rusty parts (I'm a packaging engineer with a background in corrosion control) until they can change budget requirments to buy the proper corrosion control materials. Not being able to buy packaging materials out of a re-work budget, and having a packaging budget that is capped caused such a situation. So the bean counters sat down and revamped the budget and then they bought the materials from me and everybody was happy. Except for the guys who had to deal with the rusty parts for 6 more months. Unfortunately, thats big business.

Good day to you sir and happy fishing. I'm not sure why you thought I was angry, I guess I type kinda loud.(insert smiley face)

Doc

[Doc_wi]

No offense taken. I agree with you whole heartedly. It's unfortunate that the statement can be made that SOME endorsed fishermen are only as loyal as their options.

Joel "Doc" Kunz
walleyeonthewolf.com

[mikemcadams]

Since you have a relationship with Pinpoint, could you tell me if it will combine the down-looking and side-looking transducer signals so I can see to the sides as well as just down. I live in Virginia and the only place that I have found that carries talks them down.
I am in need of a bow mount motor, so if the Pinpoint motor/sonar has enhanced capabilities then it is the one for me.

Thanks,
SwampFoxOfVA

[Doc (wi)]

You can access any of the transducers through your Pinpoint sonar when hooked up to your positioning motor. For complete clarification as to the views or fish marking abilities of the multi-transducer head on the 3000 series motors call Pinpoint direct at 1 800 474-7550.

Doc

[Corporations]

I think we have to look at the big picture, and why things do or don't go the way we may like them. Last year, rumors of the Brunswick Corporation, the parent company of Motorguide, Pinpoint, Quantum, etc. put the entire fishing division on the market. I have heard that these rumors are true. This being the fact, it is obvious that corporations run the show, and dictate how the money, and research funding is spent. CEO's protect the stock holders funds and their decisions may not make us, the consumers happy. If they are trying to sell they are not going to spend the research money needed to add GPS technology till questions of any pending sales are answered. Take this info with a grain of salt, the actions seem reasonable to me. A rep at a sport show is not going to inform you of internal problems for obvious reasons.

[mikemcadams]

Thanks for the info, I will give them a call. Looks like I'll be plunking down the bucks for a Pinpoint motor/sonar system.


Thanks Again,
SwampFoxOfVA