Resucitating sub-legal fish in livewell

[Last Boat Off]

Here is a situation that I would like to know the legality of. Client and guide are fishing on Wisconsin lake for musky on 50 inch minimum size lake. Client catches nice 42-inch 20-pound fish that is really played out. Guide puts it in livewell for keeping while getting camera ready. Intent is to live release fish when done. Photos taken and fish goes back in livewell for 10 minutes of fresh oxygen before release. Client feels real uncomfortable about whether this is legal if warden comes over, but bites lip and says nothing. Client had been checked by warden day before in own boat so he knows this is real possibility. After agonizing 10 minutes the sub-legal fish looks great and is released unharmed. Livewell made big difference, but would this have been a citation? When exactly does a "possesion" occur? Certainly not when it just flopped into the bottom of the boat, and not while being held for pictures, but what about this livewell thing? Thanks for the help.

[Terry/JNR]

Yes, this is illegal. It is in possesion.

[JCK]

Tell it to the judge. The warden would have to charge you its his job to.

[Eyez]

I'm not a muskie fisherman, but I would think that if the fish is played out, it should be held over the side of the boat while readying the camera and while being resuscitated. It shouldn't take long to get the camera ready, and if you catch a sub-legal fish, you should do whatever possible to get it back in the water alive and legally, even if it means spending a half hour resuscitating it.


Eyez

[Ness]

Honest, sir, I was going to release it. I was just waiting until
it felt better. Somehow, I don't think he'd believe that line...
Besides, resuscitating it over the side of the boat is less stressful for the fish than time spent in the livewell.

[CJW]

Here's a little different scenario. While walleye fishing I caught a eye that measured a little over 14 inches. State law is 14 inches. Thought great its legal, threw it in the ice chest. Caught 5 more undersizes which were returned to the lake and 3, 20 inchers. DNR pulls up 30 to 45 minutes after first fish in the box. Whats your smallest fish ? Said 14 ok lets measure it. Measures now 13 and 7/8ths inches. Told him fish has been in there 45 min. He said if you can revive it I'll let you off. Duh like thats gonna happen. And anyone with half a brain would know things in ice will contract, or in terms the DNR can understand is they get smaller stupid. Thus I recieved a $160.00 fine. I am full supporter of every law out there but a little common sense would be greatly appreciated too. In front of the judge I explained what happened. He got it and said he had had enough from this particular DNR officer, threw out my ticket and went off in a huff saying the DNR was going to get an earfull. I've learned my lesson if any are that close they go back! I only keep ones a 1/2 inch bigger than legal and they go into the basket over the side. That way they'll at least stay the size I measured or bigger if the water is 70 like it was that day. Thats why I put it on ice in the first place. So I'm saying if its that far off legal size I'd be releaseing it PDQ and not messing around like he did. Never know who might be watching!! Craig

[Fish-on]

A good conservation officer knows when a guy's got a break coming and when to throw the book at someone. A 13 7/8-incher on ice seems like it's time to cut some slack unless the person with the fish is a habitual violator. Putting a 42-inch muskie in the livewell when the limit is 50 inches is asking for trouble, and I doubt any game warden would cut you any slack. I realize this is a fairly common practice and well-intentioned, but far too risky for me. For what it's worth, I feel like the fish is better off over the side of the boat in water that may have a fraction fewer ppm of dissolved oxygen than it is beating itself up against the sides of a livewll. That's my $.02.

[Chad]

Letter of the Law vs. Spirit of the Law

The only excuse I could see is if the guides in the area have a working relationship with the local wardens. Maybe there is an unwritten understanding allowing the guides to revive fish in an oxygenated live well as long as they are released in a short period of time. The realtity is that sometimes the laws may do more harm but that by cutting a little slack, the spirit of the law is followed and everyone comes out winners with an increased population of trophy fish for all to enjoy.

[Hawgeye]

I had a similiar situation happen to me last spring. Crappies were on the bite and it was before the walleye opener so I decided to go catch a meal. I caught about 30 crappies all between 9 and 11 inches. All were released because there was a size limit of 11 inches. There were 3 that I measured that were 11 1/4 that I kept.
The warden then arrived and wanted to measure my crappies. He took out his homemade measuring board, slammed the fishes mouth against the end and pushed hard enough to make sure that fish was 10 7/8". I was ready to uncork! He said that he would let me go with a warning if they were alive enough to release. I bit my lip, let them go and off he went. I was sooo pissed that I nearly said something that I shouldn't have. I know that there is no gray area when it comes to measuring...or is there? I can take any fish and make appear to be anywhere from 1/4 to 1" variations. There is no way that the crappies that I had were too short. That day, I gave up crappie fishing on any lake with size restrictions since that, pan fish to me is only good for eating, not a real big sport fish in my eyes...too bad.

[WAeyes]

The bottom line is that if the game warden came up to your boat and you have a fish in the livewell, your busted. Why can't the guide have his camera ready while the client is fighting the fish, then immediately after the fish is netted and unhooked, snap a picture and revive the fish over the side of the boat? If I was a game warden, that would be my question to you while I wrote out your ticket.

[SUPERTROLLER]

While you were writing out the ticket, I'd make sure you had the name right. Who put it in the livewell? The guide. You gave the fish to him. What he does with it is his problem. Who's boat was it? The guide's. The fish in the livewell is his unless you tell him to keep it. You didn't make the decision to resuscitate it there. Let him pay the ticket.

[Phil T.]

Here's another citable situation many of us are guilty of. The daily limit of walleye was 5 fish/angler. Two guys fishing in the boat, nine walleye in the livewell. Warden asks who's fishing illegally, chuckles, and leaves.

[Dave B]

Wow, some of these stories regarding conservation officers looking so closely at how big fish are has really made me start to think twice about what I might keep and what I might throw back. I always try to be a supporter of DNR efforts. Sounds like some of the CO's in these stories have either become jaded or are those stereotypical cops who like to "throw their weight around". I'm glad CJW's case (walleye "shrinkage") was thrown out.

Finally, here's a quote that you've probably seen thrown around:
"Ethical behavior can best be assessed by what you do when no one else is looking."

[B2]

n defense of Ethical CO's.
You have to guess if there is a infraction, that everyone might/is going to lie.

I have New flares in my truck.
It was 14" a 1/2 hour ago?
I had 3 life-preserver's when I launched?
I always carry my Lic. w/me, just not today...
I didn't know that?
Really, on this lake?
The wife is/was driving (I'm drinking, I wouldn't do that)... (at the launch, drifting, etc.)

These are some poor examples I know but,
CO's have to deal with people trying to pass one by them all the time.
Every one that gets caught is going to explain... But where do you make the call at?
What is the proverbial line?
Double dipping, 1 year old caught 5 walleye's...
My wife went in the cabin to get a soda that is her line... "Honey, come here...That your line right...Right?"

So they might just assume if you are violating they are going to get some "sort" of story no matter what.

I don't work with, nor am I related to a CO.
But, there is a flip side to it as well.
I would not want to have to decide who is really the honest one vs. the good liar's...

Just my $.02 !

Butch B.

[SUPERTROLLER]

Nobody's fishing illegally. You can fish as long as you want and catch as many as you want. As long as you're not in possesion of MORE than your limit, you can continue fishing all day. In Michigan you are allowed to cull your catch as long as you remain within the legal possesion limits. You could also claim to be fishing for an alternate species of which you do not yet have a limit catch, if you live in a more restrictive State. It's liking catching bass during the Closed season. You can't help it that they keep slamming your spinnerbait--- You're pike fishing! It's that jig-n-pig that's gonna be tough to explain. LOL.

[guideman]

In Minnesota and Wisconsin once a fish has been
in the livewell it is in your possession. It is
illegal to cull from your livewell, if you have
your limit in the well and you continue to fish
on your favorite walleye spot, you could be in
some trouble. It becomes more than a legal issue
it becomes a issue of fishing ethics. Take your
limit back to the lauch clean them put them in the cooler. Then you can go back out and fish for pike or bass if you want.

guideman.

[Not Exactly True]

Unless, of course, you're Scott Glorvigen and you're fishing the RCL. Then you can keep fishing your walleye hotspot after your limit (legal and tournament) is in the livewell.

[Tommy Mac]

As far as I know, in Minnesota, it is ok to cull from your livewell as long as the fish in it are within any specified slot regulations and you are not in possesion of a daily limit. (two guys fishing would have to stop culling fish after the 12th is put in.)TM.