Minnesota Bill hf242..multiple lines...READ!!!

[GullGuide]

Hey all,
Just got an email back from the author of bill hf242. This is what he wrote:

"Thanks for the note....I put this bill in on behalf of the fishing groups in our area. Rick James, our local outdoors writer, is the one who brought this to my attention. He commented that the limits are the same regardless of how many lines you use. He said he'd love to have one line with a bobber and then be able to cast into the weed line with a spoon at the same time.

I am collecting comments and will add yours to my file. If we get enough interest, we will try and move forward with this legislation.

Take care.

-Rep. Al Juhnke"


Ok everyone, he is in need of our support, actually looking to see if there is support, and needs everyones input. If you are for using more than one line during the summer, I encourage you to email Rep Juhnke as well as your own Rep. Lets flood em with support for this!!

His email address is-
rep.al.juhnke@house.leg.state.mn.us

To find your Rep-
www.house.leg.state.mn.us
You can view the bill's language also by going to this site and typing in hf242 in the search box.

Take care and remember.....open water is only 3 months away!!
GullGuide
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[Hans]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-01 AT 12:52PM (CST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-01 AT 12:32*PM (CST)

Those of you opposed to this idea and who prefer to maintain the "single line per person" rule, make sure to express your feelings also.

I have expressed my feelings as follows:

Dear Al,

I am opposed to the idea of more than one line per fisherman.

I have been fishing for more than 50 years in Minnesota and
other states, including states where more than a single line
is allowed.

I feel it is harmful to the resource, largely because "meat
hunters" load their boat or shoreline with several children
who aren't really along to fish, but to increase the "rod
count". I've seen lakes completely cleaned of good panfish
by this practice, where a family of 2 adults and 4 children
can have a DOZEN lines in the water at once.

It is also common practice for professional guides to troll
with "double rods" and thus increase the catch rate of their
customers, allowing them to "limit out" quicker and return
to the water with a fresh load of customers.

Hans

[K2]

hans

with you on this one. one line in the summer is more than some people can handle the way it is! more people fishing, fewer fish in the water(so some will say), and then add more lines for quicker limits? keep an eye on the the rod in your hand.

K2

[GullGuide]

I was going to keep quiet on this one, but since I saw that both of you, Hans and K2 had to jump in and give your oppinions...like you do with every other post....I could not.
There are MANY people that I know who have stopped comming onto this site because of oppinionated, self rightous fools like u 2. You ALWAYS have to give a negitive response to ANYTHING controversial that is posted. You might say it is freedom of speech, but that is exactly what you are stopping, because too many people have a fear of being bashed around and belittled by the likes of you.
A LIMIT IS A LIMIT.....so what if someone catches it quicker. If the fish are biting, one line would suffice. 2 lines would come in handy while trolling so as to figure out the pattern more quickly and efficiantly. We are the only state in the region who only alows 1 line during open water. Having talked to many people that come from states where more than one line is alowed, the general consensus is that it makes no difference.
So go ahead and bash me into the ground like you do to everyone else that voices an oppinion other than your own....it just shows you have nothing better to do than sit at your terminals and complain.
>"////=<

[Hans]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-01 AT 01:01PM (CST)[p]Sorry you feel that way.

Gentlemen can disagree without being disagreeable.

~~~
We pass the word around; we ponder how the case is put by different
people, we read the poetry; we meditate over the literature; we play
the music; we change our minds; we reach an understanding. Society
evolves this way, not by shouting each other down, but by the unique
capacity of unique, individual human beings to comprehend each other.
--Lewis Thomas, The Medusa and the Snail (1979)
~~~

I'm not bashing you or your opinion, just stating my own which is different than yours.

Hans

[GullGuide]

One more note....
It seems you have a BIG misconception about guides hans, If we were to take somone in after they caught a limit even while the fish were biting, we'd be swimming home!! It might have happened in the OLD DAYS, but the vast majority of the guides in this state are good for the resourse and do not "meat hunt"...as you put it. We stress highly the value of catch and release and it is in our best intrests to do so!
I very seldom have clients who are just out for a limit....they are there for the knowledge gained and the expierience...in fact 95% do not want to keep fish at all!!
I run about 100 trips ayear and have been doing this for the last 6...so this blows your theroy out of the water.

[ufda]

I live in a state with a 2nd rod allowable. However, here we pay an additional stamp fee of $4 for the second rod. Not a bad money raiser and quite frankly I don't think it is a big deal. 1st, most people have no idea where to fish the 1st rod so having a 2nd one in the same place doesn't matter 2X0=0 Additionally, I've found that, unless you are still fishing a 2nd rod is just a nuisance. This might not be true of open water trolling, but for anything else it simply allows you to get hung up a lot more often as you don't pay attention to it.
IMHO
ufda

[Dave in Mpls]

>It is also common practice for
>professional guides to troll
>with "double rods" and thus increase
>the catch rate of their
>customers, allowing them to "limit out"
>quicker and return
>to the water with a fresh
>load of customers.

Let me make sure I'm following you on this, Hans.

Somebody books me for a full day on the water. Because we are able to run two lines per angler, we "limit out" by 2:30, or maybe even 12:30. The clients have had enough, so in we head. Where is my next load of clients coming from, seeing as I was booked for a full day?? Have these folks spent the entire day at the dock, anticipating my return? I think not. Where do you get the notion that this is "common pratice" in the states where multiple lines are allowed?

I don't particularily give two hoots how many lines we can fish with in MN, but a statement like yours is unfounded, to say the least.

Regards

[Chad]

Dear Hans,

I witnessed someone speeding the other day, lets put regulators on everyones auto so we cant go over 70mph.

It is too bad that you only have memories of the one guy 20 years ago you witnessed abusing and breaking the law. I believe that if the Adult with the children was doing all of the catching and was not allowing the children to do so he was breaking the law and you should have reported him.

So, shame on you for allowing that to happen, if it actually did.

It would be hard to imagine someone bring children along and not letting them catch the fish. I bet that the children were actually fishing at one point or another and had a ball.

I can remember time fishing with my father and grandfather on Lake Pepin using two rods(border water). Half the fun was having two fish on at the same time.

[JasonMN]

Hans,

Meat hunters will be meat hunters. Whether they have one line or six. That is what bag limits are for. As long as that family of six you speak of makes good use of the meat more power to them.
Also, I believe almost all guides support and encourage catch and release. (great lakes an exception)

Maybe you should stick to making posts about alcohol? Ha!
--Tongue in cheek reference to Chief No Beer's (anonymous wacko) post--

[Mattman]

Have to say I don't have a problem with two lines. Lets me figure out the productive bait twice as fast. If fishing is good one rod is more than enough. And a limit of fish is a limit of fish whether you caught them with one rod or two or three. Meat hunters are meat hunters and they fish with two rods anyway and bring the kids along for extra limits anyway. I won't speak towards guides because I don't know anything about them.

[Chairman]

Lets get into economics, more rods mean more rod and reel sales which means more excise tax coming back to the state.
It hasn't hurt states like WI (3 srods). Most states have 2 rods and down south they have unlimited rods, seasons and size limits on many fish. The fishing down south is excellent for most specie there.
I cannot see where a second rod in the summer would do any damage to the fishery. MN allows 2 rods in the winter. There is no sound management practice for one rod in the sumer. Hats off the the politicians proposing this bill.

[Minnesota]

I am in favor of being able to use 2 rods. I do not think it would do any damage to the fish population. It makes fishing more fun in that you have more to do. As for the guy who takes 5 kids and his wife out in the boat and fishes with 14 rods, not likely. Even if he tried I guarantee you he would be spending way more time untangling rods than putting fish in the boat. My money would be on the guy fishing 7 rods. Fishing with 2 lines gives the serious fisherman more of an opportunity to develope a pattern. Most fisherman would not likely bother with fishing 2 lines anyway. The ones that do choose to do so probably will not do it well and will probably catch less fish than they would have had they just concentrated on 1 rod. In my humble opinion, it all comes out in the wash. You are still going to have ethical and unethical people no matter how many rods you can use.

Minnesota

[cisco]

In Wisconsin folks use multiple rods while proclaiming "trolling will ruin the resource." Muskie hunters cry foul whenever "their" precious muskie waters are opened to trolling. I guess just about any change will provoke argument.

My primary concern, however, is with enforcement. I try to call the TIP line and get a recording. I see and report violators, but know not whether anything is ever done. I read about poachers who get minimal fines and often no license revocation.

Al Juhnke and every other legislator, and motor-head Jesse, have to acknowledge that no fish or game management program, no DNR, no fisheries strategy, no Mille Lacs monitoring, NO program for resource improvement is worth a dime without enforcement. Jesse submits a budget that has everyone wondering how to keep present jobs -- we need more conservation wardens in the field. One, two, or three lines per angler, I don't care. Let's have fish and game law enforcement.

[EAGLE EYES]

I couldn't agree with you more Chairman! Makes perfect sense to me. I'm not gonna jump all over Hans and tell him he's an idiot though! He has a different opinion than me so, I feel as though I should stomp on him right? This is so uncalled for and childish!

[BigPointer53[millelacs lake]]

Its probably alright on most lakes but on millelacs where they monitor how many pounds are taken by the sport fishermen this has to be a bad idea! Go ahead and blast away with your thoughts on millelacs.

[AquaMan]

Everyone will have an opinion here. Fear not those that oppose your idea, GG. You need to let is stand on its own merit. Most of all, do NOT take it personally. Most readers will see through any misinformation and base their choice on what they feel is right and good.

"Elective" secondary lines are available in some states while obligatory secondary line are available in others and realistically, do not provide double the opportunities for the fisherman, but since the second line costs a few bucks more, the DNR of those states benifit financially. Further, some of those second lines are restricted use. In otherwords, commercial (guides/pros/launches) are restricted from them, while other states provide equal access to all. List the exact flavor of the bill to reduce the flap.

Dress this anyway you want, if the people want it, send your support, if you don't, then don't. Pretty simple. But don't knok each other over the heads on this one.

AquaMan~~~~~~~~~~~~~

--- "It all begins and ends at the water's edge"

[GullGuide]

Hey peoples,
I'm sorry if I blew up at Mr. Hans, but I used to frequent this site quite oftnen a year ago, even wrote an article for walleyecentral mag. What really turned me off was Hans, for one and others who continuously shot down other people. I had good intentions comming back and making a post here, but when the first response I got was from Mr. Hans, I kinda snapped. Sorry to the rest of you who had to endure my outburst.
I am actively trying to get an email campaign going to all the legislators in this state to pass this bill....but please dont start making generalizations about people you have never met...that's just wrong!!
Take care everyone, and remember.....open water is only 3 months away......
GullGuide
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[tbomn]

Hey GG,

Hang around this time, most of us here are pretty open minded. I think most of the time we can see both sides of the story. Some times its not what is said, but rather how it gets said. We need all points of view here, stick around and share yours.

Good Fishin'
TBO/MN


"I respect faith, but doubt is what gives you an education."
Wilson Mizner

Good Fishin'
TBO/MN

[Winnie T]

I will contact my representative immediately. For me running two lines would be great when running cranks. Hope it passes!
T

[Chief No Beer]

This is Hans' nature. You go right, Hans goes left. You go up, Hans goes down. You want 2 rods, Hans wants one. You spill chocolate milk, Hans spills beer cuz he's drunk again.

[SdDoc]

I also agree with GG, i can still remember a crass remark made by Hans interms of my reproduction. He does not know me and at times i feel he has his voice muffled by his underwear!!! Sorry, but i did ask hans for an apology, but of course recieved none. I dont visit here often, but i still enjoy the articles and of course the message board. I just have learned to ignore him and hope he goes away. 2 lines are better than one, and i hope it passes. I have lived through minnesota, and i could not wait to get back into SD to fish!!

[Jeff Berg]

Thanks for the info.

I would love a 2nd line. I'd gladly pay extra for it too.

C'mon trollers, send that email now! --> mailto:rep.al.juhnke@house.leg.state.mn.us

[FlyBoy]

I've read all of these posts, looks like a hot topic. I'm also bias because I live in Wisconsin (3 lines).. I don't get it. If I can only keep 5 fish, what difference does it make if I catch them on 1 pole or 2 (or 3?)

Meat hunters, guides, slobs, poor fisherman, idots, good fishermen, guides, me, you, etc.. Doesn't matter what you are trying to get out of fishing, the results are the same. I can see if we were arguing about 'jug fishing' vs. 'ice fishing' now there is a little difference there... But 1 vs 2?

Spring better get here soon or some of the people are going to evaporate with cabin fever.

That's my .02

John

Ice, it's cool for the first week.

[GullGuide]

I cant figure it out myself, seems some people are bound to traditional ways....keep those emails flowing!!!
>"////=<

[K2]

oh gg you are a capital letter using man aren't you.

lets see, you used words like "EVERY, ALWAYS, and self-rightous fools like u 2"; ##### your soap box must be sturdy. you should check your archives for the ALWAYS and EVERY negative post or reply that you want to tie around my neck.

i am glad i won't meet you on the water, ten lines tangled and yelling at the kids, troll on friend.

K2

[redog692]

im for the 2 lines also but only in mn would the state do this to us.this pass year there were talking about the limit 6 fish going to 4 fish for next year so lets lower the limit but let everybody have 2 poles. i think i missed something

[mabr]

recieved reply from tom hackbrth .. said he supported it but didnt think many other legislators did .. so please email your representitive

[Greg P.]

Another good discussion topic.

I would be in favor of 2 lines.

Many good points made for both sides of the argument, most seem to be in favor of 2 lines.

I do not have any new points to make, but the ones I agree with are:
- A limit is a limit, and 2 poles or one, still one limit.
- I agree with a surcharge to fish two lines, 4 bucks seems reasonable.
- Meat hunters will always be present.
- I too, occasionally like to cast a crankbait while slip bobber fishing. Helps keep me busy when fishing is slow.
- Only people capable of using 2 lines will do so.

Greg P.

p.s.
Hans and Gullguide, keep up the good posts. I enjoy reading both of your opinions, even if they are different than mine. It is enlightening to see another side of an issue. Many times I was not even aware of the other side, until I read about it.

[GullGuide]

Just got a note from my Legislator...sounds like the bill is gaining support.....keep the emails going!!
>"////=<

[BruceMN]

I am in favor of 2 lines per person. As a kid down south, many people "spider" fished for crappie with 5 rods per person. Especially with children who have a short attention span, having 1 cork to watch gets boring. These other states have no problems as a limit is a limit, regardless of the rods used. However, fish abuse does need a reasonable limit.

MN rules say non-resident children may fish, but fish belong as part of the parent's limit. Lets be consistent with residents, and have limits based on "Licenses in the boat". And this prevents abuse from a guy who takes home a large creel, claiming his kids caught all the fish in his freezer.

The only exception I see with a kids fish comprising parent's licensed limit, is the kid with non-fishing parents. Such kids still deserve to fish, and I am sure this is the reason law is so written. Too bad that ANY law with limits can be mis-used.

[jig n pig]

Stateof Minn. DNR is involved in many roundtable discussions about lowering the bag limits on ALL species, and Legislators are wanting to use two rods to catch fewer fish. Sounds like a very confused state we are in. No matter which bills get passed, we need to support House File 94 which is asking to increase the penalties for game and fish law violators. We need to support this and make it tougher on those violators when they are caught. We should also support the TIP line. With all the cell phones in use, more violators should be caught in the act. Program your TIP phone # into the cell so all you have to do is push one or two buttons. Bashing violators is more important than bashing each other on this board.

[Weyes1]

Really the number of lines permitted doesn't really matter. Most fishermen can usually only fish with one or two rods at a time. Just for the simple fact that you only have two hands. Now if you are a troller using boards or downriggers that would be different and that needs to be regulated a little more carefully. Growing up in Michigan, we were lucky that we could fish with two lines. Later moving to Kansas, basically the same rule applies, with the exception of trot lines, limb lines or jug lines. These are where the regs are out of proportion and need to be regulated. Two lines per person is a good rule. Kids can't handle more than one at a time. Dads that take their kids out and fish with two pole per kids and he has his two lines in usually winds up breaking the law at sometime and will eventually get caught. Cell phones are great! Poachers beware!
Just my opinion.
Weyes1
Kevin Clark

[Hawgeye]

First of all I am for adding the option of having 2 lines.

These claims of a boat using 12 lines is almost rediculous. Unless you have a 25' pontoon, with 6 skilled adult fisherman, I would love to see a person try to run 12 lines with 4 children on the boat. I have a 7 and a 3 year old that fish with me and it will give me nightmares to think what it would be like to have 6 lines out. I spend most of my time fixing backlashes,unhooking and baiting hooks, fixing tangles without even fishing myself with only 2 kids and 2 lines. If the rule passes, still only 1 line per kid for me.

As for adults, a limit is a limit. Meat hunters are fewer and farther between and this will not increase that practice. I like to troll with two lines when I fish alone because different depths and presentations can be practiced.

Get real, I am for slot limits to some degree, more lines for the enjoyment for adults to increase quality of time on the water, and smaller limits. I go to Canada and always buy the Manitoba conservation license for 4 walleyes in posession. 4 2-3 pound walleyes is a lot of meat.

[Rip Lips]

Ya, turn in a guy trying to take his kids fishing and having a good time.YOU MUST BE WITH PETA,get a life.

[cisco]

Right on! As I posted earlier, no management program is worth anything without enforcement.

As for the TIP line, I have to say my experience using it has not been good. I realize the DNR is understaffed in many of its operations (esp. enforcement), but I ought not get a recorded message when I call TIP.

Calls and emails to legislators should also ask that current warden vacancies be filled and that the enforcement arm of DNR be strengthened.