No-culling Regulations

[Fred Snyder, Ohio Sea Grant]

A recent post on the Walleye Central fishing reports board about a walleye overbagger being cited by wildlife officers drew lots of reaction, including a couple of calls for a no-culling law. In effect, Ohio already has such a regulation in place.

At many of our programs wildlife officers have explained that when you keep a fish - whether putting it on the ice near your hole or putting it in the cooler - that fish has been reduced to possession. Had you not wanted to possess it, the fish would have had to be released immediately.

If you decide later to throw back that fish (with diminished survival prospects), it's no different from giving the fish to a neighbor - you've disposed of a fish in your possession that was part of your possession limit. If the fish is dead and you discard it out of your possession just to make room for a larger one, the action likely falls under another regulation prohibiting "wanton waste."

It's legal, with three walleye on the ice, to release the next few immediately in hopes of a bigger one. Sliding a dead one that you've had in possession back into the water does not legally remove that fish from your possession limit. So if you have your limit and continue to cull (replacing one fish with another), each fish is legally in your possession, regardless of how you chose to dispose of it after reducing it to possession.


Yes, culling happens a lot, but not because it's legal. Wildlife officers are stretched too thinly to see every case. The best protection for our fisheries comes from our own codes of ethics.

www.sg.ohio-state.edu/discus

[eyedoktr]

Fred, thanks for educating me (us??). I know there are no-cull laws in alot of states but I wasn't going to make that generalization about Ohio without knowing the details.

[eyegetit]

>
>If you decide later to throw back that fish (with diminished
>survival prospects), it's no different from giving the fish
>to a neighbor - you've disposed of a fish in your possession
>that was part of your possession limit. If the fish is dead
>and you discard it out of your possession just to make room
>for a larger one, the action likely falls under another
>regulation prohibiting "wanton waste."
>

Thank you for clearing that up Fred.

I think there are many law abiding anglers out there who want to do the right thing at all times, but they misinterpret the rules without intending to do so. Could you also explain the rules governing Angler 'A' helping Angler 'B' to reach his limit (after Angler 'A' has already reached his limit)?

[Fred Snyder, Ohio Sea Grant]

By the leter of the law, once you have taken your daily limit into posession, you are done; catching another to give to a friend who is still trying constitutes overbagging. However, wildlife officers have to deal with thousands of boats whose anglers contribute to "boat limits," where no one admits to boxing nine just because someone else boxed three. It's an unwinnable situation that leaves officers counting the total bag and dividing by the number of anglers. Nothing in our fishing regulations mentions boat limits - just per person daily limits. The law officers, as they look at these "boat limits," are making the best of a tough situation.

[eyegetit]

Oops. I was going to clarify my question but we must've hit the send button at the same time. Thanks for your response Fred.

[Marblehead]

Thanks for the Info Fred, another question: How about if you have a Livewell on your boat?..............Will/ does that make any difference as to how the regs are interpreted? Thats the only way I could see Culling done in a Legal like manner.

[Stizostideon vitreum vitreum]

How about a clarification on the 4 (or 6) walleye limit rule. Why must you quit fishing, especially on Lake Erie where there are several other species of fish to catch, for example yellow perch and white bass? Must I quit fishing just because I have caught a limit of one of those species. If I incidently catch an additional walleye, I don't believe I am in violation of the law, if, and only if I release that same fish immediately. Perhaps I am wrong about that...

[Fred Snyder - Ohio Sea Grant]

I should nervously point out that I'm neither a lawyer nor a wildlife officer - just a fisheries educator - but it seems to me that the walleye in the livewell are still in your possession - the regs don't specify where or how you're possessing them.

[Fred Snyder]

At some point we may need to refer questions to a law officer, but there's generally no problem dropping spreaders down for perch after boxing a limit of walleye.

If it's the third week of April, you have a limit of walleye in the box, and you're explaining to the wildlife officer that you're casting a jig and minnow on that reef top for smallmouth - I don't know; I'd have to see what the officer says. But if you catch a walleye while fishing for those smallmouth, make sure that same walleye goes immediately back into the lake.

[SCOTTYBOY]

I would like to make a point that no one has brought up yet about live wells. You see professional fisherman mostly bass fisherman all the time catching their limit of fish then replacing them with bigger fish as the tournament goes on. Wouldn't this be considered culling under the letter of the law.

[Jim Ordway]

Some states, many in the south, do allow culling. Wisconsin, as and example does not allow culling. Once you put it in the live-well, it is considered to be in possesion and you must count that towards your bag. If you choose to release any or all of your caught fish at any time during the day, they are still counted against your limit. I realize that enforcement agencies can't be everywhere, but it is up to us as sportpersons to honor the spirit of the law.

Take care,

[wallydog1]

Seem's it would be nice to have a wildlife officer come in on the stickly fishing forum and feild some Question's.even tho the law is pretty staight forward.as you can see people think that they do understand the law and then are not so sure of something's.now most know when they are breaking the law.you are over your limit your over your limit.as far as possession limit's I have seen people confused on what they are as to what they can have at home in there freezer if caught legally with the daily possesion limit.would it be
8 as of now till the limit change's for total possession.just thought it might be neat to have some question's feilded by a officer.

[REW]

I have chatted with several DNR officers in various states and the states that have no cull laws are really quite simple.
If you catch a fish, take it off the hook and put it in a box, it is in your posession and must not be put back in the water.
If you are under your limit, by at least one, it is no problem to catch a fish and immediately release the fish.
However, states that have no cull laws, specifically prohibit - upgrading your livewell. This is specifically against the law. As one of the other posts indicate, once you have put the fish in a cooler, livewell or any place except the water, in which they were originally swimming - the fish is in YOUR posession, and will be counted against your posession limit. Even, if you throw a fish back after being completely ok, after 5 minutes, you have by the letter of the law, thrown back one of your limit fish, and you are then allowed to only keep the no cull state limit - 1 in this example.

Take care
REW

[shadowman]

as far as livewells go, here in P.A. if you follow the letter of the law and your fishing from a boat with another person and you both are keeping fish YOU MUST be able to keep the fish separated some how, we use plexiglas cut to slide in to the livewell and drilled full of holes, if you don,t have a livewell you have to use separate stringers, thats the law.

[Rick]

It looks like every walleye and bass tournament is in violation either directly or indirectly of the no cull laws depending on what states they are held in.

[Marblehead]

Fred, Thanks for the input on this topic...Any input from you is always appreciated.

[walleyeken]

hey fred, thanks for the great info. also let me say that
the charter boat captians show was really nice.the speakers
including myself done a terrific job.!!!!!!!!!
you really put on a great show along with the food and captians
it was a learning experince.
im looking forward to seeing you soon



kenny morris
misty blue tackle company

[Seagull]

Fred....as I understand most culling or possession laws....you can catch and keep your limit (4 right now) and continue to catch and release as many as you want to catch, without upgrading (culling)any of the fish you have kept....is that not correct. I have heard that some Conservation officers ight ticket you even if you catch and release if the fish appears injured or badly bleeding? Other confusing laws across various states is the seperation of your catch. Most places usually don't enforce the issue.

[bob oh]

Fred, any chance you could get Kevin to write an answer to post here? You could post it if he doesn't use the Net?? :-) Or maybe on your site and we could post a notice here that you have the answer on line?

[Stizo vitreum v.]

Based on what I've read thus far, I believe it is legal to have, in your possession a limit of walleyes and still continue to fish, as long as you practice catch and release of any additional walleyes you catch...including the new state record!!! Culling of additional fish at this point would be illegal, and rightfully so. That's the risk you take. Individual ethics and morals will be tested in these situations which for most (as human nature dictates) is the greatest challenge we face in life. That said, I don't find it unethical to practice catch and release after you catch your limit of fish. It can be a good learning experience allowing you to try differnt lures and methods, and can lead to additional fish in the box/on the ice in terms of other species. I offer that as a different perspective and hopefully not an unethical one...

Stiz

[SCOTTYBOY]

I agree that you should be able to fish once you have your limit of fish but what happens when the next fish you catch is gut hooked or damaged some other way? Should you throw it back and let it die or throw a perfectly healthy one back from your live well? Or if you have caught a 8# female and kept her to make your limit then later on you catch a nice 4# male.

[eyedoktr]

It all starts and ends with, don't keep your limit until you're ready to call it a day.Make that last fish, your last fish. If you end up with a limit, great. If you don't, try again another day. That way, if you gill hook or somehow injure a fish, you aren't violating the law and you don't have to worry about anything. If somehow, I had a limit of walleye and was after perch and happened to catch another 'eye, by law,the most recent catch HAS to be released.

[Fred Snyder,Ohio Sea Grant]

I posed the last questions on catch and release to Kevin Ramsey, Lake Erie Law Enforcement Supervisor with the Ohio Div. of Wildlife. Mr. Ramsey said that possession is the bottom line - you can keep fishing for a particular species after boxing a limit, but all fish caught after the last one taken into possession (Here possession anything other than unhooking a fish and returning it directly to the water) must be released immediately and not taken into possession. Even dropping that fifth walleye (March-Aprill limit is four) into the livewell to see which is the smallest to release puts you technically in violation.

This topic has been chewed over pretty thoroughly here. If such debates could be posted on our Sea Grant Lake Erie Discussion Board, I could draw on our other Sea Grant specialists and agency partners to help answer certain questions. You'r invited to visit the discussion board at www.sg.ohio-state.edu/discus

[Ray]

Sir I have two other questions that you could possibly answer for me... is there a possesion limit on fish in Ohio and if I fish 2 days in a row and am from out of town, how can I legally have my first days limit while fishing day 2. If they are cleaned and in cooler in car are they considered the first days catch? Thanks for your help.

[stizo vitreum v.]

I agree Fred. The horse isn't moving any more...Thanks for your input on the discussion, and I will visit your site for future discussions on similar issues.

Stiz

[FreeByrd]

Ray,
In Ohio you can have your daily limit times the number of days you have fished. Some have suggested saving any dated receipts for things like lodging or meals just in case someone questions you about how many fish you have so you can indeed show you were in Ohio for more than one day of fishing.
Good Luck,
Steve

[Toolman]

Steve,

He may be refering to this thread from GFO. There (understandably)seems to be a little confusion regarding what constitutes daily bag and possesion limits. Apparently there is a distance from the body of water that must be maintained for the daily bag/possesion limit thing?(I really hope this link works!)
http://66.216.66.212/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33841

Tim

[hardly-fish]

Better check your fishing regs. before giving advice ! The way I read the regs., it says that you can posess no more than 8 fish , from March 1 till May 1 , after that posession is 12 , no matter how many days you fish.

[ethical angler-hunter]

Have you guys ever thought about how many fish you can realistically consume, and keeping only what you need for yourself and family? I want everone reading this to think about it-----how many times have you gone through your freezer and found packages of perch and walleye which were way over a year old?? What happens to them? You know and so do I---they go in the trash and are replaced with freshly caught fish. Is it REALLY that essential to take your limit every time you go fishing--or as far as that goes---hunting? Is a limit of walleye, perch, ducks, geese, rabbits, doves as important as a good day afield with family and/or friends??
Sure, we all realize that you may have friends, relatives to share to results of your angling prowness with, but just how many fish do you need to make a day successful?
When the 'catching' is fast and furious, like it is now offshore of Camp Perry-----Have you ever thought about keeping only those fish which may be deep hooked, or gill hooked, and releasing the others---then stopping when you reach your legal limit?
Have you ever considered keeping only what you might need? Have you ever thought about NOT going out tomorrow, or the next day, because you already have enough walleye flesh in the freezer to feed your family for the next year----or at least until you can get out in the boat during May, June, July??
Have you considered maybe taking someone you know, who might like to experience the fishery, out with you---teach them what you know, and just watch them catch fish and have fun?? Maybe a neighbor, or a co-worker, or better yet, friends of your sons/daughters who may not have someone to take them fishing--especially when it's really good catching??
If you haven't thought about this, then give it some thought----then take a few minutes and check how many bags of last years fish you have in the freezer.

[Rick]

to hardly-fish : Please tell me where you see this in the Ohio fishing regulations. There is no mention of possession limits for walleye in site specific regulations for Lake Erie. The only thing stated is the daily limit and minimum size. Please direct me to the info rmation about possession. Thanks

[SS]

Scotty-boy,

Didn't see where your question concerning tournament culling was completely addressed. Where culling is permitted, typically tournament limits are less than two person bag limits. In Ohio, you can cull til you have your limit in possesion. No laws are violated.

In states where culling is not permitted, the rules I've looked at are set-up to comply with the law while accounting for the number of anglers in the boat.

Best Wishes,
ss