Tow vehicles: Gas vs Diesel

[Fish-on]

Just wondering about the benefits and negatives of each. Especially in Iowa/MN where the winters are cold. I realize you have much more power with a diesel, but how about problems in the winter and fuel economy, price, etc. Thanks in advance.

[Hans]

Unless you have a HUGE 30'+ rig and need the low-end torque, I don't see any advantage to a deisel truck.

Hans

[bart5443]

When your out on the ice all day sitting in a hut, the sun's shining and it's 20 below wind chill. You won't have your truck pluged in. You may or may not get it started. Mine didn't in 1985 ,had to have it towed off the ice, the fuel gelled on mine many times. If you get fuel that has some water in it thats when the fun starts. Don't know if they changed things on the diesel trucks of today. Bart

[Boatnut]

Fish On,
I've got a 96 ford with the powerstroke diesel and 125K on it.
I LOVE the truck but diesels aren't for everyone. They are noisy (mostly when accelerating, not at highway speeds). Also the fuel is smelly and greasy.
I bought mine because I tow a bobcat quite a bit and used to tow a 26' cruiser about 2,000 miles a year. Both were around 8500 lbs with trailers.
I wanted a truck that would give me good towing and non-towing economy as well as plenty of power to tow. I've had NO problems starting in winter. Never have had to use the block heater.

If you are towing a LOT of weight and OFTEN and/or intend to put a lot of miles on the truck, then i'd say consider a diesel. In order to offset the premium you pay for the diesel, you'll have to put a lot of miles on it.
Otherwise, stick to gas.
my 2 cents.
Mike(boatnut)

[vetspet(ind)]

i have the ram v-10...it is really a nice vehicle...tows every bit as much as my best buddies diesel ford.....we have similar rigs....truck campers and 21 ft boats...his rigs are actually heavier than mine but still basically the same...he gets way better gas mileage than i do but other than that we are equal .. he paid 4000 dollars more for the motor has 14 quart oil changes compared to my 8 i think....he gets 14-16 mpg where i get 7-8 so thats the difference...my unit would be easier to start in cold areas...steve

[Frank from TBay]

I run a GMC 3/4 Ton 4x4 with the 6.5 turbo diesel. I love the truck having owned gasoline powered vehicles before. It is also a truck used for work and where I work diesel fuel is what is used. I do not have a problem with cold starts as I use a 0W30 synthetic oil and the vehicle is in top shape. If you are doing tons of towing and lots of driving a diesel is good. You pay a price for the power in the shape of noise and smell ect ect. They cost more to buy and I guess you should look at your payback times ect ect. There is no easy answer to this question. For me and any other guy in my neck of the woods a diesel is the only way to go. I have never looked at the other reasons.

[Bill]

I have a Cummins and love it. Have never had to use the block heater and it has always started on the first crank after the wait to start light goes off. They have pretty much figured out the problems they used to have starting diesels. Also, the fuel is much better than it use to be. As for towing, no gas vehicle compares to a dieseL, a ton of power and great fuel economy. The life of a diesel engine is also way greater than a gas engine. You don't notice a loss of power after they get a lot of miles on them. The resale of the new diesel trucks is great here in Denver, don't knowhow good it is everywhere else. If you want a lot of pulling power and economy, go with a diesel. Don't worry about starting problems, because I haven't heard of anybody with one of the newer trucks haveing a problem. The coldest I have started my Dodge in was about -15 and my dad has started his PowerStroke in the same.
Good luck,
Bill

[mlc]

Hi Fish-on. I have a 97 Cummins. Love the truck and the power. Only have 70k miles on the rig but they have been trouble-free miles. Maintenance costs are high. Needed new front tires at 45k and new front brakes at 55k.

I've come to side with Hans on this one. If you tow heavy stuff alot, such as a 5th wheel, then I can justify the additional costs. They are made for the long haul, not short suburban or city runs at low rpm. Short runs that do not allow the engine to get up to proper heat levels can be hard on these engines.

There is one thing I do not like about my Cummins. I like to fish and hunt(rabbits) in the winter. I like to make it back to the truck,start it up and get warm for coffee or lunch. This can be difficult because running these engines at low rpm's for extended periods is not a good thing.

If I had to do it over again I would go with a large V-8 or V10 to haul a 10 or 11 ft camper and a heavy 17ft boat.

Take care and enjoy,
mlc

[lenray]

I have the 3/4 ton ford with the v10 and go north into Canada from the SOO some mighty big hills there- pulling a 12 ton trailer flatbed that is what i put my camper on with the boat and the quads-the v10 will pick up speed even going up those long steep inclines--it can pass every thing except a gas station-just kidding I get 11 mph really enjoy the truck.
lenray

[Scott D]

With the diesels, you should add a fuel additive in the winter to protect from gelling. The advantage of having a diesel is if you put a lot of miles on the truck you won't have to rebuilt it as soon as you would a gas engine. Also, the fuel mileage is better. If you don't put a lot of miles on a truck before upgrading again, then a gas truck would be better.

[Mckoz]

I've got both the V-10 and the Powerstroke diesels. I use the V-10 for home and the Diesels for work. Aside from the noise the diesel is great - can you justify the 4000.00+ thats a lot of towing??

Mike

[Phil T.]

Were I to buy a new tow vehicle, I might buy a diesel pickup, but another Suburban would be gas powered.
My pickup carries a slide-in camper as well as tows a boat. If I were to buy a new one, it wouldn't be used for short trips, and the cooler-running diesel would be an advantage.
I'd never own a diesel Suburban because those are so handy for short trips (groceries even) that the diesel engine wouldn't last long. Short trips are death to a diesel because with any engine, fuel leaks by the rings until the engine is warm. Gas in the crankcase oil isn't so bad because it evaporates at relatively low temperatures so is soon gone. Diesel-soaked oil must get really hot to vaporize the fuel. Short trips don't do it.
If I didn't plan to own the truck for over 100,000 miles, I'd buy gas. At one time, the fuel savings paid for the diesel option and additional service costs in 100,000 miles. With the increased cost of the diesel option, the payback is more like 200,000 miles. Any required engine repairs cost a lot more for the diesel, as well.
As for power, a big-block gas is as strong as a diesel. However, the diesel will run cooler which is really handy in the summer. I know. My old pickup has a 454 gas engine, and on days I need the air conditioning, I can't run it. The engine would overheat. Electric auxilliary fans for the tranny and engine oil coolers will be bought this spring.

[Frank from TBay]

I'm reading on several posts about diesels running "cool". Diesels come up to temperature just like any engine. I have never experienced a problem with heat in the vehicle or "running cool". If an engine is "running cool" you have a problem in your cooling system and it should be checked out. My diesel as well as numerous other vehicles we run all come up to temperature as they should. Summer or winter they all run in a temperature range. I get tons of heat out of my truck when I need it.

[ed]

Fish-on
I have an F350 diesel and I live in Minnesota.
I have never had an issue with winter starting even after sitting out all day at -15f. There are now winter blend fuels so the issues of the 80's fuel jelling should not happen.
The noise is a issue, but the milage more than makes up for it.
I avg. 15-17. Fords warranty is 100,000 miles on the motor and Transmission but it is a $5,000 adder to the cost of the turck.

good luck
Ed

[Phil T.]

The great difference is the combustion/exhaust temperature. A big-block gas engine under load will turn the exhaust manifolds red hot, crack them, and split mufflers. A diesel won't generate that kind of heat. That heat is also reflected in the piston temperatures, consequently a big horsepower gas engine is harder to keep under temperature control.
I'm not referring to the engine warming up to proper operating temperatures, or the heater working in the winter. I'm talking about having to use synthetic oil when carrying the camper and towing the boat on vacation trips, because if normal motor oil is in the crankcase, and you check the oil when stopping for gas, the dipstick smokes. Yup, my old 454 does that, it did it since it was new when my father owned it, and that's the big reason it gets nothing but Mobil-1 in its crankcase.

[Dave S]

I live in Alberta Canada and own a 93 cummins, the truck has 245,000 km and runs and starts like a top. I have started the truck without being plugged in, in -30 and the problem is that they will start(starting that cold for any engine is not the best). I would purchase another diesel in a flash, the longevity is amazing mine has never been touched. The best thing about the cummins has to be the inline 6. It gets amazing fuel economy, mine is a extended cab, long box, 4x4 and when not pulling can easily average 27 mpg, towing the boat I get around 25 mpg. Pulling the boat with a camper on the back and the truck doesn't even gear down going up hills.

The new Chey Diesel look really good with 300 horse. Might be my next set of wheels.

[Captain Dan Kelly]

here is my two cents i have a 454 chevy 1995 it has 180,00 on it and i have never had an overheating problem while towing anything i tow a 27 and a 30 ft sportcraft with it and it has performed great for me i ordered a new duramax diesel you cant even hear the motor running and the allison automatic will impress anyone i have driven the ford and the dodge and to sum it up it runs better than either brands manual transmission set ups wow i just hope the aluminum heads stay stuck on with the rice in the antifreeze hope this helps

[rngrfshm]

Which one would you go with a gas or a diesel if you are towing a 21' fifth wheel and a 19' boat. I am looking at upgrading my pickup currently and not sure which way to go as well. I have a 1989 GMC K1500 extended cab 350 TBI and have a hard time pulling it.

[mlc]

Hi Frank. In the above post I was making reference to the Cummins engine(in Dodge pickups). The owners manual and the Cummins Website caution one to NOT run the engine at idle for extended periods. Running "cool" has nothing to do with the cab heater. I can always get plenty of heat out of that at idle. Running "cool" means not warming the engine up to normal operating temperatures and keeping it there. The consequences of not following this advice can cause problems when fuel that does not completely combust(because the engine is not up to operating temperature)can end up in the oil pan.

I cannot speak for the Powerstroke or the new Isuzu unit in the Chevy's. Owners of the Dodge/Cummins trucks are cautioned against short trips and extended idling.

Take care,
mlc

PS-Perhaps this has changed with the addition of the newer 24-valve unit. Mine is a 1997 12 valve engine.

[Frank from TBay]

Thanks for the info. mic. Very informative.

[Jesse-WI]

Not sure about the other brands, but I know Ford has an option these days for it diesels that can be used when long periods of idle-ing are needed. When turned on it automatically changes the rpm's of the motor at idle to ensure the above does not happen.

I believe other after market products are available also.

My current F150 4.6L has 160,000 miles on it and I am dealing with the same decision. It is starting to get a bit long in the tooth for towing my Lund 1900 Pro V

[Phil T.]

Total up the gross vehicle weight of that load, and you are likely looking at that Ford F550 2wd with turbodiesel, manual tranny, and 4.56 rear axle.
I wouldn't expect anything but a "real truck", as a semi tractor owner called them, to pull that much. Since I really hate double trailering, I needn't worry about it.

[Champ]

Diesel for sure with that kind of load.

[rngrfshm]

Thanks for the input. I am looking at the diesels now. Again thanks.