lake erie pipeline

[gettum]

All of a sudden the gillnets on Lake Erie seem like child's play compared to the next plan that made the Cleveland newspaper (Plain Dealer) the other day. They are planning to put a gas pipeline from Ontario Canada to New York State over the bottom of the Lake! I have two concerns: All the digging and messing around while they are putting that line in won't be doing much good for the lake. However, worse yet, if the line burst and all the gas under pressure bubbles out, and perhaps even catches fire. Who needs this? I am sure that the fish and other wildlife in the Lake and those of us who fish on the Lake or otherwise use it for recreation, don't!

[ErieAngler]

When was the last time a high pressure gas line burst? We have high pressure gas and petroleum pipelines criscrossing our county all over the place and I asked my grandpa if one ever broke. He said only once when a guy hit it digging with a backhoe. Within 5 minutes the line sensors shut it down.

I am all for a pipline to deliver cheaper natural gas.

[Dan]

You are right on by being concerned about the resources, but take a look at the California power situation. Cost / availability. In the past, each time a group would propose a nuk fired or coal fired power plant in that state, the tree huggers (not calling you one) would kill the project thus creating their dilemma and ultimately jacking rates in other states. We must be open minded towards these projects. Lastly, pipelines are safer than the media would have you believe.

[Sparky]

I don't know what damage a natural gas line would do but, we had a gasoline line let go in MI last year above ground and what a mess. I can't imagine the disaster if it had happened under a lake. I wouldn't say don't build a pipeline, it's just a question of going under or around. It may cost more to go around but it would be short sighted not to consider that option. The California situation is a case of not wanting anything in their state except electricity. How they expected to get it I'll never figure out. I could make other comparisons about the mind set but, wouldn't want to start a fuss on such a friendly walleye board.

Sparky

[bob oh]

Isn't it amazing how the uninformed and misinformed always blame their lack of knowledge on the media or someone else; but, of course, they always blame everything on someone else.
As a reporter I covered gasoline and crude oil leaks from pipelines and they were disasters. I don't know about natural gas leaks so I would have to reserve judgment until I have some FACTS. I also don't have all the facts about the proposed Lake Erie pipeline, so I'll wait until I do before I give an opinion on how bad conservationist are. But I am sure that without any facts I can disassociate the proposed Lake Erie pipeline from the California electricity crisis ;-)
Bob

[Dan]

Here we go again, Bob! Someone comments, the wolves come out to cheep shot whoever they can. Having worked for a pipeline for 13 years in your eyes is considered someone with a lack of knowledge, uninformed or misinformed? FACTS? Yes, pipeline accidents happen, but the fact is pipelines are the safest, most cost effective method of energy transportation. As far as the California thing, this is not rocket science. If you don’t build the generating plants to meet increased demand, what happens to supply and costs? As demand goes up for natural gas, do you propose to meet this demand with a transport truck? Lastly, I am so relieved that you have chosen to reserve judgement on the conservationist, but I must ask why you are so eager to grill me?

[stupendous]

Of course, there is an added risk with the pipeline compared to without. After reading your post, I did a few searches on different engines for gas leaks. Very surprising how many there hits came up. Also very surprising how many were caused by people "digging" into lines (although many if them weren't). Simple fact is, it would be surprising if anyone on this board really knows enough to say how great the risk is. Is the risk any greater than that caused by spills of all kinds from tankers and barges? Personally, I would prefer to avoid the added risk, but I'm no expert and realize that. Fact is, we will have these risks until new and alternative energy sources are developed, and then we will have other risks. Just some food for thought.

[Olfs]

I live in Jackson, Michigan where the pipline burst and I believe it was around 100,000 gals. of gas. several blocks were evacuated and 4 homes had to be abandoned completly, but this was a gasoline pipeline and I don't know how much different they are. My father is a nat. gas engineer at Consumers Energy, so I will ask him the difference and post.

[Raybob]

Your post got me to Wondering if their is a gas line across the South Passage to South Bass Island & if so, have their ever been any problems .. anyone Know?
Thanks for the post .. I like info on Issues that might or might not effect us .. The Facts & Truth have a way of shaking themselves out, if the Issue is know Early Enough!

Let the Chips fall where they may!
Raybob

[BIG RAY]

Hey Getum
From what i've experienced with natural gas leaks, I would say there isn't to much to worry about. They are talking about useing high pressure water to dig a trench to lay the pipe line in and then cover it with cement. They plan on laying about 3500 ft of line a day so it shouldn't take to long. plus the water shouldn't be much worse than after a storm. BIGRAY

[bob oh]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-01 AT 12:39PM (CST)[p]Come on Dan, you blast the media (of which I am a member) and environmentalist as tree huggers and it is a cheap shot for me to question your knowledge!! So Dan when you're shooting, don't be surprised if you get shot at.
I agree we need generating plants and methods of transportation, but that doesn't mean building a pipeline under Lake Erie is the way to do it. I'll wait until I get some more facts from everyone - not just the pipeline companies who will profit - and then I'll tell you whether I agree. OK??
Bob

[Dan]

The media has an agenda. If noting it is a shot, so be it. Reporting the facts and nothing but the facts is not as high on their list as it should be. Period! I’ll say it again, pipelines are safer than the media would have you believe. In an attempt to solidify your argument, you have made adjustments that would imply someone here supports the Erie project, which is not the case! It was suggested to be open minded to the project. Again, fact distortion. Thank you, for making my case. Telling what some environmentalists continue to do, is in my opinion is telling the story behind the story, verses taking shots as you would have everyone believe. OK??

[gettum]

All I know is that all things being equal, I'd rather not have the pipeline, but then again as was pointed out we don't have all the facts in yet. In any case, it is good to have advance warning in order to get thinking about something like this and get some more facts, and that is why I posted the message.

[jim c]

I dont see the connection between gas line and calf.prob. And speaking of calf. Why cant their be clean coal fired plants made. I work for a co. that makes this kind of equipt. and believe will be soon improved to include gas emmisions .. We are trading the cost of health care,ecodamage etc.with the cost of clean smokestack tech. If we have the option lets chose the smokestack tech investment.

[Frank from TBay]

High Pressure bursts and fires are common here in NW Ontario. The soil that the lines run through cause the pipes to corrode. I think it would be "interesting" to see a repair done on an underwater pipe like this.

[bob oh]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-01 AT 09:20AM (CST)[p]Let me poke just a few holes in your "facts" Dan and then I'll shut up. First of all the "media" can't have an agenda - the media is make of thousands of radio and TV stations, magazines and newspapers with thousands of owners. If you are talking about the major networks Dan, they are NOT the media. Do pipeline companies have an agenda. You were suggesting open mindedness by saying how SAFE pipelines are and bringing up the California situation (a scare tactic) and attacking the media and environmentalists. Well, that seems fair on your part. Also painting all environmentalists with the same brush because of the actions of some that you don't agree with is extremely fair and of course, without agenda hahahaha!!
Finally, Dan, a good friend of mine with 30 YEARS of pipeline experience told me last night when I called him about this situation, "Do everything you can to keep that ##### pipe out of Erie. I want to retire some day and I'd like a lake to retire to." So, Dan, not all pipeliners feel the same as you do?
Bob

[Dan]

Bob: I wish you the best in your retirement. But make no mistake, a 200% increase in home / transportation energy costs will be a part of it providing your mindset prevails. And I believe it will as we see our utility bills skyrocket and gas approaching $2.00. Poke holes in those facts…

[bob oh]

I promised myself that I would not reply again, so here I go making a liar of myself. Your comments are just too outrageous for me not to respond. Sorry Dan, but just because you say there will be an increase does not make it a fact. My mindset Dan, since you can't understand it, is that you can build your pipeline under Lake Erie when it has been proven that that is the best and safest route to go. I do not oppose the pipeline or generating plants (I have a cottage in the shade of a nuclear plant), but I do not want you or anyone else in the "business" making that decision.... I have never said I oppose transportation of or generation of energy, you have just misconstrued my opinions to fit your agenda, a common practice of "company-line" folks. Also scare tactics like "YOUR bills will go up 200%" are very common.
Have a good day Dan. I think you have proven MY point.....thank you,
Bob

[ErieAngler]

Ummmmm.....not to stir the pot, but why would any pipeline company put a new gas line under Lake Erie if it was going to be less cost effective and evironmentally unsafe? Obviously they must have an economic and ecologically sound proposal to run that route unless you can make a case that they are completely ignorant of environmental liability or intentionally trying to destroy the lake ecology.

[Bulletny]

Anyone that wants to know about this pipeline being put in by
Columbia Gas Transmission Corp. can go to:
www.millenniumpipeline.com Hope this helps all that are concerned with this project. Bob Haskell

[ErieAngler]

Bob,
Thanks for the website address.