Batteries

[AlwaysLearning]

I'm planning on purchasing two new trolling motor batteries this spring. While in Sam's Club the other day I noticed that they had 3 batteries that I was interested in. The first was a deep cycle trolling only group 27 size for around $47, the second was a group 27 dual purpose trolling/cranking battery for about 8 to 10 dollars more and the last was a maintence free Stoway group 31 for about $64 dollars. The first two batteries were also Stoways.

I've used group 27 size in the past with only experiencing 1 or 2 days when I ran out of battery power. My question is do I really need a deep cycle battery that is also a cranking battery just to use for my trolling motor? Does one battery type charge faster than the other? It looks like I can save about 20 dollars if I buy only a deep cycle. I have two additional batteries in the back of my boat for electronics and and starting, a traditional cranking battery and a dual purpose deep cycle/cranking for my electronis and 12 volt trolling motor.

Thank for your thoughts.

[Fin Addict]

Go to the GNB web site and you will answer your own question. Generally a true deep cycle battery will hold up better than a dual purpose unit as it has thicker plates. However in this case the group 31 Stowaway will provide you w/ significantly more running time than the others mentioned. For my $ it would be my choice. Their Tournament series is one notch better still. I don't see a maintainance free listed in the web site but if you are not religious about checking electrolite levels on your batteries that option could be huge!

[Doc Johnson]

When it comes to batteries you get what you pay for. The best, longest lasting deep cycle batteries are made by the Trojan Battery company. Trojan is the originator of the deep cycle technology. If you only want group 27 batteries the model number is SC200B. I use 3 group 31 series batteries for my Minnkota Maxxum 101, a 36 volt system. I never have a problem with batteries going down. Use a cranking battery for cranking and perhaps running your accesories and use a deep cycle for your trolling motor. The 31 series model number is SCS225. They cost between $70 and $80 each. You can get them from any battery distributor. Trojan also makes the majority of golf cart deep cycle batteries, deep cycle for solar applications, deep cycles for many camper manufactures, and industrial equipment. If you can't locate them in your area, E-Mail me at DANCINGLOONS@worldnet.att.net
Doc

[AquaMan]

I have had marginal sucess with the cheaper batteries in the past. I had one that I bought from Wal-Mart that lasted 5 years and then others that did not make it through one season. But since I can typically get them replaced for a few buck under warranty, I made them work. I have one StowAway brand that is still in service after 3 years and going strong. Winter maintenance is the key. Keep an automatic trickle charge on it or store them fully charged indoors away from open flame and off the ground.

Regarding the speed of a charge, my experience has been that the faster (Starting) the battery discharges the faster it will recharge and conversly for the slower (Deep Cycle) discharge. Starting battieries are ment to deliver a large amount of power for a short period of time and the power drops quickly, while a deep cycle can provide an longer bandwidth of power and amps. The latter takes the longest to charge.

I have never tried the hybred battiers (Deep/Start) but I would be interested in hearing what those that have tried them think. Do they work well or are you buying a gimick? I can't really see the advantage. I mean either you are using it to start the motor or you are using ot with your trolling motor. Never one for both.

AquaMan~~~~~~~~~~~~~

.·´¯° --- "It all begins and ends at the water's edge"

[Steve(CO)]

I received an E-mail from someone touting Thermoil as a battery additive. The web site claimed that regular maintenance batteries (add water type) were superior to sealed, maintenance- free batteries. They claimed that the regular batteries are antimony-lead whereas the sealed batteries are calcium-lead and that the latter do not fully recharge after discharge. In other words, each time you recharge, the sealed battery will only recharge to, for example, 98% of the original capacity. The next time you only get 98% of the 98%, etc. This does not bode well for useful the life of a battery. My question is, IS THAT TRUE? Obviously, a battery additive like Thermoil is useless in a sealed battery, so this web site definitely was trying to steer you to a battery type that could use their product.
I too am trying to decide between the Trojan 225 and the Stowaway Tournament. The Stowaway is sealed which I like because I know I don't check battery fluid level as regularly as I should (personality defect). On the other hand, the Trojans sound like great batteries. If the bit about charging sealed batteries is true, this will make my decision. Thanks for the help.

[Glen Bunnell]

Steve....who sent you the email about thermoil? I would be curious to know becuae I represent them.

Glen Bunnell

[Glen]

Steve...just send me an email and let me know who it was. Thanks Glen

[gil]

I used to charge my trolling batteries at 15 amp with never a problem. Then someone said that was bad, so I trickled charged my new ones and the now do not last as long as when I charged with 15 amp. Can you charge the trojan at 15 amp

[FlyBoy]

What is their website?

Thanks,

John

[Airwave(OH)]

Aquaman I have posted this sevral times and I don't know if anyone believes it or not but this came right from a MAJOR battery manufactuer. There is no such thing as a DeepCycle/Starting battery. Yes I know they market them but they are really just a deepcycle batterys. If you think about it the two batteries are made completely different as far as plating. One is designed to be charged slow (DCycl) and the other fast(Starting).If you build a battery that has plates thick enough to withstand long slow charging than it IS a DCycle. If it has thinner plates it is a starting. Now If you put both plates in as I know some are thinking then how do you charge it. In order to get a good charge they would have to be charged slow which your Stators are not designed to do. Many boats come in to the shop and that is what is wrong.They have fried the Stator or packs because the alternater never gets the signal that the battery is charged(Thick plates)never really charge to 100%. I hope this makes some sense. Its to long already...!!

[Airwave(OH)]

Deep clycle batterys should be charged slowly on 110 volt charger but will charge if run through an Isolator.

[Boatnut]

Brian,
not sure what you mean by "slow" charging. According to West Marine, deep cycle batteries will last the longest and charge the fastest if they are charged in distinct "phases"/I.E.- "bulk" phase, "acceptance" phase and "float phase".

Mike(boatnut)

[Boatnut]

Doc,
I've got 4 of Trojan's 6-volt golf cart batteries wired as one big 12 volt battery on my houseboat. I use them to supply 110v power thru an inverter. These are AWESOME batteries with a LOT of reserve minutes! I think two of these wired as one 12 volt battery would be great for a 12v trolling motor.
Mike(boatnut)

[Airwave(OH)]

Thats probably true Mike. But it is still slower than when charging a starting battery. Most D/C batteries would charge best if charged to a certain percentage(Can't remember the exact %) and then trickle for an extended period.

[Dave in Mpls]

Howdy, Airwave

I currently have 2 gr24 dual purpose wired in parallel for starting and electronics. This bank of batteries is also connected to one 10Amp bank of a three bank charger. Are you suggesting that I may be harming the charging system on my motor with this configuration of dual purpose batteries?

Regards

[Steve(CO)]

Glen:
Oops. I'm afraid that I deleted the E-mail on Thermoil and I don't remember who sent it. Sorry.

Flyboy:
The website for Thermoil is www.thermoilbatteries.com/.

I would still like some input on the question of lifespan of sealed vs. non-sealed batteries (see above) if anyone knows.

[AquaMan]

Reason would suggest that if a deep cycle battery has thick plates and a starting battery has thin plates that a Deep/Starting battery would have medium plate. Am I missing something there?

Either way, I would not put one in my boat since I either use mine either to troll or start and the combo would be short on either front. Definitely do NOT make this your only battery for BOTH funtions! It is dangerous to promote one for both as some MFR's would have you believe. If you troll your starting battery dead, you're up a creek in a bad way.

AquaMan~~~~~~~~~~~~~

.·´¯° --- "It all begins and ends at the water's edge"

[Airwave(OH)]

Yes Dave from the sounds of it if you do not isolate the D/Cycles from your charging system you just might be. You can do it for short periods but I wouldn't make a habit of it. The simplist way I can explain it is your D/cycle batteries just never tell your charging system that there charged so it keeps trying.Eventually over working it to the point where it may fail.

[Airwave(OH)]

LOL nice try Aqua.. but thats not the way it is...

[Doc Johnson]

The only problem with the 6 volt batteries on a "normal" fishing boat is a space limitation. The 6 volts are taller than the 12 volts, 11 and 13/16 inches as compared to 9 and 3/4 inches on the 12 volts. One 12 volt weighs about 60-66 lbs. Six volts weigh 66 lbs each.

[Paul]

Every motor that is equiped with a loop charging system is damaging the stators?

[AquaMan]

So how does it work? "...splaine it to me, Lucy"

Seriously, how does a dual purpose battery work and, if charging requirements are so different between the two, how did they deal with that? More over, how should the user deal with it?

AquaMan~~~~~~~~~~~~~

.·´¯° --- "It all begins and ends at the water's edge"

[John N]

Well, Always Learning, so am I. And my travels and research have convinced me that absorbed glass mat batteries, particularly those designed and used for deep cycle, are the way to go. Haven't seen anyone say so in all these posts, so I thought I'd throw my two cents worth in. There are a number of makers of them, and the West Marine Catalogue's "advisor" will go into a bit of detail about them, as does a recent issue of Bass & Walleye boats. They're quite a bit more expensive, but hopefully worth it both in terms of life span of the batteries, recharge time (much quicker than conventional flooded cells), durability and convenience. Been really happy with mine so far. Good fishing, John.

[Jim]

I was wondering what is the purppose of the regulator? I thought that it was to reduced the amount of amperage when the batteries are becoming charged.

[Glen Bunnell]

Steve...hopefully this answers your questions. I received this email from a friend who is in the battery business:

A sealed battery is calcium calcium and not lead antimony. If you
discharge this type of battery very much it will only charge back up about 98%. Discharge it again and it will charge back up about 98% again but since it only came back up to charge about 98% the first time now it is going to charge the 2nd time about 98% so that would be 98% of the 98% so after a few times it is at about 96%. If you are going to discharge your battery you need a lead antimony battery. Lead antimony is in some starting batteries and more in deep cycle batteries. This is what the battery companies are trying to make a deep cycle battery with not much or no antimony because the more antimony you have the more you can deep discharge it and the quicker it will charge back up but the more antimony you have the more water use,
gassing and corrosion.

If you need more information just send me an email and I can put you in contact with this guy.