Unfair Nonresident Treatment

[Dan]

Canada has crossed the line in their treatment on non-resident fishermen. They practically force the purchase of bait from Canadian baitshops. Only Canadians can trap minnows. Cannot bring in leeches. Next it will prohibit transporting crawlers over the border. Recently camped at Missinaibi Lake and were harrassed by Canadian conservation officers because we didnt have skin on the fillets we were about to fry for dinner that day and we had more than 2 fish in a bag. Then there is the outrageous per person camping fee without any facilities provided. Its time the U.S. reciprocated with similar restrictions on Canadians coming to the U.S.

[Frank]

The COs are just doing their jobs. Laws are rules of the land that everyone follows. Trapping minnows is allowed by locals only and we are only allowed one trap. The province is divided into minnow trap lines that the trappers have to pay a fee every year. This is why we are only allowed one trap and NR anglers can't catch their own. The crown land camping fee I am in total agreement with. We are harvesting a resource and you should have to pay for that. A lot of residents feel that NR anglers should stay at resorts and not be allowed on Crown land at all. As NR anglers in NW Ontario catch 75-80% of the walleye in this area and we just had a limit decrease from 6 to 4 you can see their point or I would hope you would.Tourism is a large employer in this area and the province is treating the resource as a business and so it should. If we are allowing NR anglers to harvest our walleye and we are not making money at it or employing people then this should be looked at.
Good fishing: Frank

[fishinnut]

If the non-residents boycotted Ontario for one summer the economy would crash. Think about the "Dollars"(not lounies) that are spent in that province by non-residents. To risk the loss of those dollars, by harrassing non-residents doesn't make much sense. And if you could explain the bann on importing leeches I'm all ears.

[Chet from Minnesota]

For us this will break our consecutive years streak at 11 going to Chamberlain narrows on lacsuel.Can't take the border hassles any longer, treating us worse than dirt.

[Frank]

A CO doing his job by looking at your fish or informing you of common practice in packing your fish in this area of the province is not harrassment. The huge size of the area and the lack of CO's make it a very hard area to police, cut him a little slack. I know a lot of the CO's in the Thunder Bay area and if you feel you have been treated disrespectfully by all means file a complaint. You will be listened to. As far as the bait thing I'm not that familiar with it, but it sounds like a political thing to me. They want out of country fisherman to buy their bait in Canada.It employs locals who catch and sell the bait.The MNR I think is pushing more out of country anglers to stay at resorts which they probably feel employs people and has a greater return on value for the walleyes harvested.

[Mike]

The importance of stopping the leeches from being brought into Canada is to prevent the introduction of new species into our lakes. Any new species such as leeches brought in and used here can cause the whole lake to be changed, most times for the worse. The fishing is good up here becuase we have such rules and they are there to keep it that way. If you think about it its a small price to pay for our baits, to keep our lakes going strong.

[wally]

Monday, June 12, 2000
U.S. anglers busted

Taken from the Toronto Sun

WINDSOR -- A Canadian crackdown resulted in nearly 7,000 kilos of fish caught by U.S. anglers being seized at the border this weekend.

Officers from Canada Customs and the ministry of natural resources stopped every U.S.-plated vehicle Saturday.

A total of 227 vehicles were searched, yielding 54 tickets for violations of Ontario fishery regulations and the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act.

A conservation officer said the high proportion of violations -- about one-in-four Americans inspected -- indicates the need for more checks.

[Johnny T]

At one point I admired American TOURISTS,for they were from the land of plenty,they had it all..At another point I tolerated American TOURISTS,They are a nesscessary nuisance but what the heck!!! Now I'm starting to think that if the ##### YANKS ARE NOT HAPPY with VISITING our COUNTRY then maybe they should keep their god dam *** on thier side of the frigging BORDER WE DON'T NEED YOUR #####!!!

[DAVE]

POTTY MOUTH!

[Eyeshole]

Face it folks. It's a limited resource. The meat hawgs and netters have necessitated a lot of the idiocy in the regs. The price of leeches are about the same and the crawlers typically come from Canada one way or the other. List the positives of a trip and if bringing home bags of fillets or taking your own bait are that big of a deal to you, I'd suggest you're missing the point. Try and remember you're a guest, not John Wayne storming the beach. At the end of the day, you can always vote with your dollars. I for one won't mind not running into some of the whiners who seem to relish *****ing more than Fishing.

[Nate W.]

Sorry, I'm red, white & blue to the bone, but I have to side with the "northerners" on this one. There's a reason why the fishing is so good up there, it's because it's taken care of. If we had taken care of our lakes & wilderness the way the Candians have done, we would be enjoying the same fishing in northern US waters as what we enjoy in Canada now. I've been through the MNR roadblocks, been checked by the CO's on the lake, "tore down" at the border, the whole ball of wax. So what? Everytime we've come face to face with a Canadian official we've been polite, courteous and coopoerative. We have always been treated the same way we treat them. I've seen too many Americans throw childish tantrums just because somebody asked to see their fishing license. So what if their regulations are a little inconvienent? If it's such an issue, we'll let you bring your own bait to Iowa. I'll be happy to point you to a few good holes. Just not in July, I'll be "suffering" in Ontario.

[Sunshine]

Johnny,
Please do not group All AMERICANS together. There's been a lot of Canadian bashing lately on this message board and I for one, apologize. Please understand that many fishermen and women are frustrated w/the netters, rising prices, and rising regulations. The small group of vocal anglers who lash out and vent on this site are not representatives of the majority. I've been coming to your beautiful country for 23 years now and I hope that I am welcome for another 23 years. I would continue to come if I was not allowed to bring any live bait, if I had to buy all my booze in your country, and if I couldn't bring any fish back to the U.S. These things are not important to me and many others. My "escape" to the pristine beauty of your country, the ability to forget about the "real" world for a short period of time, the lack of newspapers and TV, and most importantly, the sharing of sunsets w/ those I love will bring me back year after year. That is, if I'm invited to return. I never forget that I am a visitor to your country and I always try to leave it in better shape than when I arrived. Can't we all just get along?

[fishinnut]

Your arguement that stopping non-residents from bringing in leeches to prevent introduction of foreign species doesn't hold water. Leeches have been brought across the border for many, many years prior to the bann. If a foreign species was to enter the waters it would have been there long ago. Still think it's a money matter. AKA greed.

[Fred]

I don't think Canada has crossed the line. While bait might be cheaper here, I understand their concern. You can always use artificials. My one buddy is harrassing me because I buy bait, he says in Canada it is not needed!

As far as the CO checking you out, I would appreciate seeing a few more wardens at home in Wisconsin. I can't remember when the last time I was checked fishing in Wisconsin.

At least in Canada you can still catch fish, the shoreline doesn't have summer home after summer home and jet skis don't run between your boat and the shoreline you are fishing!

The Canadians I have met have been friendly and helpful.

[Frank]

Greed is a pretty strong word. I would prefer the word job creation as a better choice. When you really think about it the amount of money expended on bait versus your entire trip, it doesn't really matter.It is only a very small part of the trip. Also I've used our Canadian leeches and the American ones when they were legal. Our Canadian leeches caught more walleyes and were not as dificult to handle as the American ones.
Good fishing: Frank

[Frank]

There was a combination OPP and MNR inspection at Pigeon River the border outside of Thunder Bay this weekend. 18 US anglers were charged for a variety of offences including over limit, not having their fish identified ect. The MNR does this on a regular basis and I view this years checking as extremely positive. Last year I understand they had over 60 charges. Seems the word is getting out that we will not tolerate this type of activity. This is extremely positive.
Good fishing: Frank

[T-Mac]

In my comings and goings across the Canadian Border for 40 some years...Thru BC, Alberta, Sask, Yukon, Ont., and Manitoba....I have had a heck of a lot more trouble with jerks with blue uniforms on our side than I have had with Canadian Customs agents.
Sure...have had instances with both...but saw far more obnoxious U S agents than Canadian.
However...it seems that I am noticing a growing hostility toward Americans at the border...in the last few years, that did not used to be there.
Really too bad...I know many folks whom I count amongst my very best friends, that reside on the Canadian side of the border.

[Chevy]

The increased enforcement of the regulations is a response to the increase of non sportsmanlike behaviour on both non resident and resident anglers alike. It appears from conversations I have with the enforcement officers that many people are not properly using or respecting the resources true sportspeople take great pride and care to conserve. Again, it appears a few are once again spoiling the fun for many anglers who abide by the rules.

[acp]

You gotta be kidding:

"Also I've used our Canadian leeches and the American ones when they were legal. Our Canadian leeches caught more walleyes and were not as dificult to handle as the American ones."

If I spend USD50.00 on 2 pounds of leeches, this is 5% of a USD1000.00 one week fishing trip. That's NOT insignificant.


Later....

Al

[mkebenn]

There is an obvious solution to this problem, don't break the law. AS a U.S. citizen (Canadians are as "American" as we are} I am VERY embarresed be all the violaters cited. What is wrong with you people? Our northern cousins have a magnificent country, respect it and care for it or don't cross the border. Mike in E.A.

[dave]

any other americans not happy with our laws please
stay stateside and fish in your poluted lakes
and catch bass and crapies
as for us canadians we dont need any yanks
that dont apreciate the need for laws
please stay home
oh by the way
if you cant afford to pay for bait we dont want you here either

[Daniel]

Unfair treatment? Were you charged with anything? Sounds like the CO was just explaining to you the rules we have up here. Keep your money at home? Sounds good to me, though I have fished Missinaibi before, both times for a week, and the total cost was something like $180 Cdn. This included, gas, food, camping fees etc... basically all inclusive, which converts to about $95 U.S. No facilities? Of course not, this is a designated wilderness park, and we wish to keep it this way. This is not the Disneyfication of a natural park that you Americans seem to be so fond of, so if you want more facilities, go to Yellowstone or some such place, where you can mingle with the hordes and complain about the prices of souvineir trinkets and park admission, not to mention the price to pump out the holding tank of your double wide. These are OUR resources, and beleive me, we aim to take care of them, even at the cost of two pounds of leeches and a weeks worth of camping permits.

[I AM CANADIAN!!!!]

You know what? Go ahead and toughen your fishing regulations for us non-resident anglers north of the border. The fact of the matter is that not too many of us care to travel down to your polluted waters to catch contaminated fish. Did you ever wonder why so many of you stuck-up pork-bellies make the long drive up here every winter and summer to basically rape our waters of our resources. Now don't get me wrong, Americans that come up here and abide by the rules governed by our C.O.'s are more than welcome. But the *******s that break laws up here might as well stay home with their beaten wives and crack pipes!! That's right..I'm CANADIAN, EH?

[mjb]

Your argument that "if foreign species was to enter the water it would have a long time ago" is at best short sighted and naiive. As recently as the last decade the Great Lakes have seen the introduction of several species that have drastically changed the ecosystem (spiny water fleas, zebra mussels, gobies, just to name a few). By stopping the import of leeches and baitfish we can prevent further ecological disasters. Just look at the spread of Whirling disease in your own country. I dont need to remind you that much of the water in the US is located in areas drastically different in climate and the species they contain, compared to canada. Who is to say that the water that the tourist from Arkansas fills his cooler full of minnows with does not carry some parasite, or fish species that could prove disastrous to our waters. The few bucks a day on bait is a small price to pay for the ability to use this resource. It always amazes me how some foreign tourists feel that they should be the ones writing laws here in Canada. When you go to England, do you insist on driving on the right? when in France do you insist on being served in English? Obeying the laws of the land are part of the responsibility of visiting a foreign country. Canada and the US are similar in many ways, but are still (very) different countries, with different rules. We love to have you, our close neighbors as guests, but remember, you are in someone else's house.

[mjb]

Your argument that "if foreign species was to enter the water it would have a long time ago" is at best short sighted and naiive. As recently as the last decade the Great Lakes have seen the introduction of several species that have drastically changed the ecosystem (spiny water fleas, zebra mussels, gobies, just to name a few). By stopping the import of leeches and baitfish we can prevent further ecological disasters. Just look at the spread of Whirling disease in your own country. I dont need to remind you that much of the water in the US is located in areas drastically different in climate and the species they contain, compared to canada. Who is to say that the water that the tourist from Arkansas fills his cooler full of minnows with does not carry some parasite, or fish species that could prove disastrous to our waters. The few bucks a day on bait is a small price to pay for the ability to use this resource. It always amazes me how some foreign tourists feel that they should be the ones writing laws here in Canada. When you go to England, do you insist on driving on the right? when in France do you insist on being served in English? Obeying the laws of the land are part of the responsibility of visiting a foreign country. Canada and the US are similar in many ways, but are still (very) different countries, with different rules. We love to have you, our close neighbors as guests, but remember, you are in someone else's house.

[steve]

I think that the gill netters in Canada should look toward Pennsylvania Fish Commision rules when they banned gill netting on Lake Erie in PA. If you charge a couple dollars extra on license sales to stop or even decrease the gill netting the fishing throughout Lake Erie would be much better. I know that many people rely on netting for a living, but this extra money would be given to them to supplement the income lost in gill netting. I'm not saying to stop completely, but slowing down would'nt hurt. And to say that the fisherman wouldn't pay for the tax is not true. The people who truly love fishing will definitely pay for the tax no questions asked. But who wants to pay for the license now for as lousy as the fishing has been. A few good days a month doesn't warrant a non-resident to pay money to fish Lake Erie in Ohio, Canada or Pennsylvania. In my opinion,(and remember it's only mine) if Non residents stopped fishing Canada, the Canadian fishing system would take a major flop.

[Dunk]

If you don't like it, STAY HOME!!!

[steve]

I see your intellectual powers are prevailing. "Just stay home", well, if we did just "Stay Home" the economic impact felt by the Canadian fish stable would be detrimental to the services provided by the Canadian government for outdoor purposes. Who do you think pays for all of the improvements to the fishery in Canada. No doubt taking stands in the number of fish allowed to be caught and other aspects of the law are appropriate not only for non-residents, but for residents as well. So, before you say "JUST STAY HOME", think about the effects it will have on everyone, not just the non-residents.

[bob]

I guess your laws are just sooooo great. I remember reading something about possibly having all of your guns taken away from you. Perhaps you are the ones that are too hung up on the laws. If you had people to fight for you, like we "Yanks" do, maybe your right to bear arms wouldn't be in danger.

[Scott]

The arrogance of the average American never ceases to amaze me. You honestly think that your money pays for "all the improvements to the fisheries in Canada" so I guess my licence fees pay for what? Get a grip ! Contary to popular belief we are not an extention of your Country we are a seperate union who believe it or not can take care of our own fisheries with or without your all mighty U.S money.

Scott J. Craig

[I AM CANADIAN]

Well said Scott!! This Steve and Dan guy have quite the unrealistic view on just how much tourism dollars they provide to our fisheries. The "Just stay Home!" phrase couldn't be echoed any louder over on this side of the lake. Again, I really want to be clear as to not stereotype the Law abiding Americans with the "pork bellies" I see on Lake Simcoe every winter taking garbage bags full of perch through the ice and home to their families. Is it really that important to have a walk-in freezer full of tasty fillets, when it actually defeats the purpose of stocking programs that cost Ontario residents, that's right, Ontario residents millions of dollars annually.

[kingsway]

My wife and I will be leaving home here in Central Wisconsin tomarrow to again enjoy the wounderful country you call home. I have been treated very well by Canadians and have some very good friends there that I have met over the years. I have been checked by your C.O's and they were very polite on every occasion. I guess I feel this way because I stay within the law and treat them with respect.
We have people here in Wisconsin that dislike our game wardens too and I believe that has alot to do with them breaking our regulations here as well. It is your responsibility to read and know the regulations so as to be in compliance with them.
For the people that complain about the long wait at the border crossings consider this, the reason it takes so long is because so many of the Americans going into Canada or home have violated the Canidian regulations and are trying to get away with stealing their resources. How would you feel if the situation was reversed? For you "Good American Sportsmen," I say turn them in, to make the C.O's job easier and our relationship with our neighbors to the north better. If the price of a few minnows or leeches or gas or the number of fish you can or can't take home bothers you than you need to examine why you go in the first place. It would be much more economical to stay at home, save your money and go to the store and buy some fish to eat.
For me, I love to see the wounder of God's creation, smell the freshness in the air during the rain, view a clear starlite night, hear the loones various calls, relax, catch and release a few fish for my grandson or yours to enjoy catching in the future, have one or two great shore lunches, and get to make new friends as well as renew old aquaintances. Life is too short to see all that may be wrong in this world, enjoy life. Take time to smell the flowers and see all that is good in this world of ours. Lastly my apoligies for the way some of my fellow Americans have acted when they visit your country. Please don't judge us all by the actions of a few.
Sincerly,
a sportsman,
Richard

[steve]

I did not think that I was arrogant at all. You are the one that is getting defensive because you know that your fishery would not be what it is today without us "YANKS" as you like to refer to us. Also our fishery would be a heck of a lot better if your laws actually worked for the people. Part of the problem on Lake Erie can be directly related to the lack of gill netting laws that Canada establishes. So before you get all defensive about my comment, remember, the Canadian government is the one causing most of the grief to us "YANKS". While I'm only allowed to keep several fish a trip, the gill netters are allowed to take thousands of immature walleye out of the waters. Who is doing the harm now?

[I AM CANADIAN]

Richard, you are an example of everything that is right with this world! The reasons we all want to get away were all summed up with the accurate dialogue you presented in your posting. Catching a few fish is only part of the great outdoor experience. Like you said, it's the total package: the fresh air, the loons, the campfire, unlimited wildlife that urbanites never get to see, and the memories that you get to take home to cherish for a lifetime. I understand that it is at great expense that many Americans come up to the "great white north" to enjoy our natural resources-but it shouldn't be measured in the number of fish taken home-or whether or not you can bring your own bait. Richard, you'll always be welcome on my home lake. Cheers...

[steve]

Fact is, I've never kept a Walleye out of Canada. The only time I've gone up I caught over 100 and let every one go. I catch enough out of Lake Erie to eat. Your right, you can only eat so many. MAY QUESTION TO ALL OF THE CANADIANS IS WHY ARE YOU ALL SO DEFENSIVE ABOUT THE AMERICANS TAKING YOUR ALMIGHTY WALLEYE.

[Ladyfisher from Wisconsin]

Maybe he is defensive because of all the whiners who DO want to rape the resource. I agree with the Canadians on this one. To those of you that can't abide by the laws (without constant complaint!) "STAY HOME", then those of us that respect our neighbors to the north and their beautiful country won't be tainted by your bad attitudes.

[acp]

After living in Chicago most of my life and countless trips to NW Ontario since the mid 1960's I learned to love the Canadian wilderness. The best part for me was and still is the pristene beauty and solitude.

For the past 8 years I have lived in Florida. I still make the trek, pulling my boat, 4000 miles round trip (driving alone). And some years, like this one, I make 2 visits. First trip is behind me and the next one coming in 4 weeks. And you can believe me the primary purpose is not catching fish. It's purely rest and relaxation.

If I want to catch numbers of fish I can make a day trip to a lake here in Florida where 100 large mouth bass days are common. With bass to 10~12 pounds not uncommon. But there ain't no pine trees, no loons, no Northern lights, no untouched rock strewn shore lines. Down here it's 85* water, orange trees and thousands of alligators. The bass fishing is good. And WE have mosquitos too!

I just hope the good Lord will give a few more years of resonable health so I can continue my annual pilgrimage(s) to what I truly consider as God's Country.


Later....

Al

[Howard]

Most Canadians have no problem with Amercan people. We understand that travel across our border is a two way street. All we ask is that you try to abide by our rules. There are no laws in our country that are passed to harass Americans . Laws apply to every person in our land whether you live here or not. I know for a fact that most Americans are just as conservation oriented as Canadians are. Borders are bureaucratic nightmares no matter where you travel. Its just the way it is. When we have all the right answers and all the right documents it makes things a lot faster. When you mouth off our seem evasive it sends an alarm to the officers. When they encounter arrogant people what can you expect.

[Howard]

Most Canadians have no problem with Amercan people. We understand that travel across our border is a two way street. All we ask is that you try to abide by our rules. There are no laws in our country that are passed to harass Americans . Laws apply to every person in our land whether you live here or not. I know for a fact that most Americans are just as conservation oriented as Canadians are. Borders are bureaucratic nightmares no matter where you travel. Its just the way it is. When we have all the right answers and all the right documents it makes things a lot faster. When you mouth off our seem evasive it sends an alarm to the officers. When they encounter arrogant people what can you expect.

[Avid Angler]

I can honestly say I have never fished an area which includes the USA, Canada, Europe and the Mediteranean without first having a general knowledge of the regulations. I also know that where ever you buy your license in Ontario the regulations which are FREE are at hand.

Many of the messages posted here seemed to have gotten away from the real issue. It's not whether your Canadian or American, it's about respecting the fishery you happen to fishing in at the time.

We all have a responsibility to assist in the management of our resources, which every day see more and more demand. I say kudos for the conservation officer(s) for the laying of the charges, whether it be against a Canadian or an American.

Tight Lines,

I'd rather be fish'n than wish'n!

Mark Quade

[Karl]

Take note of the sub-heading on this page - "Shut up and fish"!

[Ray]

"if Non residents stopped fishing Canada, the Canadian fishing system would take a major flop."

Non-sense. We would have better opportunities for sure. Just look at the numbers, they took 7000kg of fish (that's 7 metric tons!!! or 15,432 lbs!!! of fish for 224 or so cars. That's 69 lbs per car in average for crying out loud. And this is just on one day. I'd rather have all that fish remain in Canada and create better fishing opportunities for us. We have enough anglers to keep our economy rolling. At least that way the resource could last longer and be able to support people longer.

You come fishing here, you're expected to play by the rules, otherwise you're not welcome and I hope our CO's will make that even clearer in the future....

Ray

[Ray]

Sorry to dissapoint you but we don't have a cowboy mentality here, we have laws to protect our rights we don't need to carry guns. That era is long gone, we live in 21st century if you haven't noticed yet..

[Ray]

STAY HOME!!!!! or abide by the law. There is no no third way about it.

[Ray]

That's 15,432 lbs of fish on a one day sting operation. Averages out 69 lbs of fish per car in one day. Do you have supermarkets over there?, should try buying some for a change!!..

Ray

[Johnny T]

You hit the nail on the head Ray!I may have posted something that was out of line or at least out of character but the fact is anyone is WELCOME to come to Canada and enjoy our fishing.All that is required is that you follow our laws and regs. If you cannot live with this then please stay home and keep your thoughts to yourself.For all the others,Welcome and enjoy your stay,but please remember that Canada also has proud citizens and some of us will speak up if we feel we are being slandered. Johnny T

[jeff reed]

Your right we are different. We Americans don't let our goverment BOOT HEEL AND BLACK JACK OUR WALLETS. If Americans paid some of the TAXES you folks do, there would be quanity discount funerals for dead goverment officials. YOU CANADIENS ARE BEING TAXED AND REGULATED TO DEATH. WHAT'S SAD ABOUT IT IS THAT YOU BEND OVER AND LET GOVERMENT OFFICIALS MAKE DECISIONS FOR YOU BECAUSE THE CANADIEN GOVERMENT THINKS YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO MAKE THEM YOURSELF. SOCIALISM AT ITS WORST AND CANADIENS THING ITS GREAT. NO WONDER WHY YOUR DOLLAR ISN'T WORTH CRAP.

[JEFF REED]

In the US we have freedom of speech. If your country is so GOOD how come your DOLLAR aint worth crap. Your beer snd cigarettes prices are higher than the Queen's nose and if you need quick health care your Canadien asses come to the USA for quick and better treatment at a much lower cost. When gas prices were low, Canadien trucks had 3 gas tanks and made weekly trips to the American SOO and Port Huron. Your Ontario Goods and Services tax is a national joke and the last thing I would do is bring back walleye from Canada when Lake Erie is an hour and 15 minutes from my door. Canada needs the USA much more than the USA needs Canada.

[jeff reed]

Hitler said the same thing when he disarmed his civilian population too, unfortunately 6 million Jews didnt get the message either.

[Illinois Bob]

Hey Ladyfisher,

Your Wisconsin rain is flooding OUR Mississippi River! If you people would just CONTROL your WEATHER, we wouldn't have all these problems in Illinois!

Waah. ;-)

[Daniel]

Just because something has been happening for years, in this case, transfer of leeches for fishing use across the border, doesnt make it right. There may not be a case of a problem arising from this practice yet, but hopefully, the new laws will prevent it. Species such as the zebra mussell and goby are relatively new to our country, and this is after hundreds of years of shipping activity in the Great Lakes. It isnt the leeches we are concerned about, but what they could be playing host to. Anytime you introduce a non-native species, you run the risk of contaminating the ecosystem. As far as Im concerned, the practice of using minnows, non-native to a body of water should be banned up here too, to help stop the spread of disease and non-indigenous species. Just look at whirling disease as an example, we've messed up the old earth enough, the least we can do is try to help stop spreading the wreckage.

[Larry]

I'm certainly saddened to see fishing degenerate into an "us and them" debate, especially over things like $5 worth of leeches, and enforcement of fishing regulations.

I'm a Canadian, and an avid, maybe fanatical, fisherman.I've certainly see abuses of the fishing regulations by locals and visitors. It's not confined to one side of the border or another. I'd welcome more enforcement of fishing regulations, without discrimination for the licence plate on your vehicle, to ensure a strong fishery for years to come.

As a side note, I'm leaving tonight for 4 days on the French River (pike, musky, walleye), followed by two days of flyfishing for trout in local rivers. Before I go, I've got to pick up two friends flying in from Kansas City and Washington respectively.Other than a difference in accents (we're still debating which one of us have the accent),they're indistinguishable from my Canadian friends who will be with us, and every bit as respectful of the fishing regulations as the rest of our group.

Adherance to local fishing regulations, on either side of the border, shouldn't be an "us and them" issue, it should be common sense and common courtesy.

Regards.

[Pat K]

You are right, we are highly taxed, for some reason, Canadians look toward the US as the best place to be. Although I enjoy travelling in the US, and have done so many times, I have no idea why Canadians think it is better. But, to enable us, that is Canadians, to try to obtain the quality of life that is preceive our US neighbours enjoy, we have to pay our taxes, btw are you aware that we are paid higher wages in Canada. Now that the population of Canada is only 10% of the US population we do not have the tax base to draw from. So it is just a matter of economics. I hope you can understand that.
But I fail to understand how you have taken a fishing topic and made it a slam against Canada and its economic structure. I got a speeding ticket while driving on I 75, was I singled out because I was a Canadian? I don't think so. I BROKE THE RULES AND GOT CAUGHT, I guess my nature says I should just accept it and not complain.

Now lets get back to fishing, after all isn't what this is all about or have YOU forgotten.
Good Luck Pat

[Frank]

Pat, excellant post, you took the words right out of my mouth. It is amazing that all of this came from a fisherman who was checked and had a beef about user fees for crown land and our bait policy. Looks like we have a lot of hostility pent up here with some of the posters. We even have "Government of Ontario" employees calling us gentle Canadians morons. I am a proud Canadian and we are noted around the world for our peace keeping duties. I have a brother in Kosovo in harms way, so I would much appreciate to stick to the suject as to why we are here.Please stop slamming Canadians.
Frank

[dan B.]

If you dont like the rules dont come here to fish as it is a well known fact that a lot of people dont respect fishing rules or the environment.These rules are put in place so that we will have fish stocks left to fish for in our old age.You pay for camping due to the fact that someone has to clean up after the idiots who seem to think that life is just a party and leave there garbage strewn about.This is a fact and applies to canadians as well as americans.Ihope you dont take this the wrong way but stop complaining and think about why we get tough on tourist from every where. Your government has to take a harder stand on fishing and stop telling you that there is all kinds of fish to be caught becuase this is simply not true.I hope you do get tough on everyone because it would be a great benifit for us all.Dan.

[mjb]

Your response is not only way off topic, but offensive. Here is my rebuttal. If (and I doubt it) the average american's response to excessive taxation would be (as you imply)to assasinate government officials, then I am both happy and proud to be a "stupid" "Canadien (sic)" that is "bending over" and taking it. Lets look at how my life is made worse by "being taxed and regulated to death". I live in a country with a land mass greater than yours, but a tenth the population. (lots more room for me to fish!). I can walk alone at night in the poorest roughest area of the largest city, and not fear certain robbery, assault, or murder. I can enter a convenience store in that same area of that city, and the cashier does not need to protect his life by being behind bullet proof glass and stashing a shotgun under the counter. My son and eventually my grand children will be able to enjoy the wonderful natural resources that this country has to offer today, as well as fifty years from now. My country's economy is currently one of the fastest growing in the world. The financially disadvantaged in my country don't need to deal with third world life expectancies, infant mortality rates, and healthcare. When I travel anywhere in the world, people respect me and envy me just because of the country I live in. Finally just for "being taxed and regulated to death" and being so stupid and such a wuss as to "bend over and take it" I am forced to live in a country that consitently tops lists of "the best places in the world to live." Poor me!

[Dunk]

Because the majority of you guys do keep them. The problem is you all think the worlk revolves around you. Who died and made you GOD??

[mjb]

Your response is not only way off topic, but offensive. Here is my rebuttal. If (and I doubt it) the average american's response to excessive taxation would be (as you imply)to assasinate government officials, then I am both happy and proud to be a "stupid" "Canadien (sic)" that is "bending over" and taking it. Lets look at how my life is made worse by "being taxed and regulated to death". I live in a country with a land mass greater than yours, but a tenth the population. (lots more room for me to fish!). I can walk alone at night in the poorest roughest area of the largest city, and not fear certain robbery, assault, or murder. I can enter a convenience store in that same area of that city, and the cashier does not need to protect his life by being behind bullet proof glass and stashing a shotgun under the counter. My son and eventually my grand children will be able to enjoy the wonderful natural resources that this country has to offer today, as well as fifty years from now. My country's economy is currently one of the fastest growing in the world. The financially disadvantaged in my country don't need to deal with third world life expectancies, infant mortality rates, and healthcare. When I travel anywhere in the world, people respect me and envy me just because of the country I live in. Finally just for "being taxed and regulated to death" and being so stupid and such a wuss as to "bend over and take it" I am forced to live in a country that consitently tops lists of "the best places in the world to live." Poor me!

[Lunker]

It really is too bad that this conversation has to take place...I live in a section of southern Ontario that houses most of the Grand River Watershed....I have seen too many American liscence plates strewn througout the many parking lots fo the River access points not to have some sort of opinion...You can bring your $1000 rods and $500 reels...with your 10 tray tackle boxes and cast day and night...but there are some things that all the money in the world CANNOT buy...one is a strike on your state-of-the-art lure and the other is exemption or relief from common-sense conservation laws.....

[Mike in MN]

I have read all the responses/comments that this original message has generated and I have to admit I've had a few good laughs at how heated this discussion has gotten. I've been going fishing in Canada for a few years after numerous years of fishing in Minnesota, Wisconsin and Iowa. The reason I go to Canada is because the fishing is terrific and the scenery is even better. I assume that the reasons that most of you on this board go to Canada are similar. Doesn't it make sense then that all precautions should be taken to make sure the area is preserved? I think the tougher the restrictions the better, and if it wasn't for the limitation of time, I think all fishermen should be checked as they come across the border. Nothing ticks me off more than the thought that some idiot meat hawg is keeping my children and future grandchildren from having the wonderful experiences I was granted. I understand that noboby likes being treated rudely by COs, but they are just doing their jobs and it sounds like there is high ratio of people caught breaking the rules when they get checked. If there wasn't I'm sure they could go to more of an honor system. But as we all know, there are way too many people out there with no honor, respect or dignity for anything, and particularly none when it comes to natural resources. I'm going to Sioux Narrows area next week and I can't wait to go catch as many fish as possible; and put all of them back in the lake for someone else to enjoy later.

[Dunk]

We don't need you. We pay taxes and purchase fishing licences. Who died and made you king of the world?

[Ladyfisher from Wisconsin]

LOL, very funny! But even if I COULD control the weather, that wouldn't solve your problems of the Cubs and Bears. ;-)

[Ladyfisher from Wisconsin]

Frank, if I were you I wouldn't even reply to such an idiotic post as made by Jeff. His illiteracy, ignorance and prejudice are showing. Funny, he would prob ably take this post as a compliment, :D

[Pat K]

Well Jeff, I guess you have it all figured out, so with things so bad in Canada for the poor lowly American, at least you anyway, Why do you bother to even come here. I am sure we Canadians will do just fine with out you. And let your law abiding citizens continue to come to Canada and enjoy our hospitality, and for you, You should just go hang out with Gov. Jessie and claim everything as his. Too bad that you guys lost the war of 1812, but you probably didn't know that. To bad we won, we may have had a country that protests illegal aliens, both ways, the orientals should go, but poor little cuban boys should stay, rather that be with his natual father. I think it is time that You should start to protest the HIGH COST OF FUEL after all it is $1.60 a gallon, a small gallon that is, in Buffalo and $2.00 is Chicago. Yep it is cheaper in the US, So again WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO COME HERE!! It is obvious, that in your mind you have it best, at least are posties don't shoot anyone when they get fired. Whoops is that the Post Office Flag at half mast agin. btw, I still think your comments are aimed at a political message board and not a fishing board. But I am sure you are not sure of the difference. Good Luck and Good Fishing Pat

[Pat K]

Maybe Jeff is so peed off because of all his protesting friends had their guns taken away at the Detroit /Windsor border in the last week. They only wanted a peaceful protest,, Yep Guns & Beer and Protest,s they American way, at least for Jeff

Boy we are so political on this site bye Pat

[curt quesnell]

perfect dan..welcome back..and thanks, you now
understand what power you have.
curt quesnell

[curt quesnell]

i mean chet (ooops)

[Ladyfisher from Wisconsin]

Well said, Mike. The problem is, those who disrespect the Canadian laws and land are the same folks who ruined our lakes down here in the US by exercising their "rights" as they see them, to overfish and pollute. And now that the fishing isn't so good here they want to go up there and do the same thing. They are the reason we need the laws in the first place.

[Ladyfisher from Wisconsin]

Well said, Mike. The problem is, those who disrespect the Canadian laws and land are the same folks who ruined our lakes down here in the US by exercising their "rights" as they see them, to overfish and pollute. And now that the fishing isn't so good here they want to go up there and do the same thing. They are the reason we need the laws in the first place.

[Ladyfisher from Wisconsin]

Well said, Mike. The problem is, those who disrespect the Canadian laws and land are the same folks who ruined our lakes down here in the US by exercising their "rights" as they see them, to overfish and pollute. And now that the fishing isn't so good here they want to go up there and do the same thing. They are the reason we need the laws in the first place.

[curt quesnell]

dan,
i used to make a couple trips per summer to a
similar place......i understood about the camping
permits (but we had a hard time finding a place
to buy them)...i thought getting your bait near
the fishing place sounded fair enough, oh, it
cost ALOT more and wasnt very good bait but ok
we'll do it.

we followed the rules and talked to the game wardens, and went thru the b.s at the border because it was all part of the deal....

we never got busted for improper fish packaging,
funny bait, never had a anal probe at the border,
but one day i thought...these clowns are laughing
at me, to my face and i dont have to take it.
i have only one weapon i can use and that is money. i used the weapon that day and am still
using it today....

here is what they were doing

they were hauling fish out of the border lakes
in gill nets...hundreds and hundreds of gill nets.
all the while complaining about the limits, tactics and sportfishing conducted by their neighbors on the other side of the border.

do they think i am stupid?...do they think you are
stupid......yes they do....

the name of the place i am talking about is not
canada...it is ontario

dont go there if you dont like it....go to another
province..but follow the rules to a tee or take your lumps

curt quesnell

[jeff reed]

When you get the facts, learn how to debate the issues, don't hide behind a screen name and respect views contrary to your own, give me a call because you haven't a clue to what's happening in the real world sweetheart. Today, gas in Canada is 3.50 a gallon. Stay home Canadiens, our cheap 2.00 gallon gas is for Americans only. Thanks for the compliment, I love to play devil's advocate. I love taking the opposing point of view just to make the other guy think about what he's saying.

[jeff reed]

I haven't been to Canada in 10 years and don't plan on returning in the near future. Plus, I don't live in Minnesota not did I vote for govenor JESSE. The U.S. Post Office shootings were close to 10 years ago and if I had my way Michigan would have CAPITAL PUNISHMENT yesterday just to clean out the prisons. I did not start this thread on treatment of Americans in Canada, somebody else did. While political in nature it does involve fishermen. Its not like we are talking about Middle East Policy. Treatment of Americans by Canadiens and what they charge and allow concerning fishing is excellent talk fodder for this website and if either Americans or Canadiens can't take the debate of the topics without being offended, they need to find another topic about something that interests them.

[jeff reed]

Don't you just love it, PAT. I just love healthy debate. Maybe thats why I never lost one. I will never support those jerks that protested the OAS meeting in Windsor, plus I don't drink. Rule #1 of debate. NEVER LUMP YOUR OPPONENT IN A CATAGORY UNTIL YOUR HAVE FACTS HE BELONGS THERE. I'm pretty consevative when it comes to civil disobedience. The day I time from work to protest such a worthless cause as the OAS is the day somebody needs to hang me from a dipsey diver and troll me for 8 hours. The last time I smelled tear gas was during the Vietnam era. Now that was a cause for PROTEST. Don't believe me.... just ask Bob McNamara.

[Jeff reed]

Curt that was one very FINE post. I'm proud of you and I mean it sincerely and not because I agree with you but how you debated the topic. Keep it up.

[CAN]

Huh??

[BRW]

Right on sunshine.I'm an American whose been going to Ontario for over 25 years now, and I'm embarrassed by some of these ugly posts.It's no wonder the world hates us w/ our superiority attitude.It's simple: when in rome you do as the romans do.I've never been harassed by ONR people or at the border. I've found Ontarians to be
woderful people.And unlike some of my yankee peers who are taking this opportunity to run their pieholes(continuously I might add)about how horrible Canada is, this yank says you've got one great country and do many things better than we do. LEt those blowhards stay out;more room for me to troll.

[brian]

Larry:

Good luck on the french.Been going up that way for over 25 years now(geo bay fishing camp near bustard is./mouth of the french)will be interested to hear how low water levels will affect the fishing.

[Don't Make Me Laugh]

The "Super Power"of the world?(with the highest criminal,murder,suicide,racism,junkie rates internationally?).Don't forget the most "InDEBT".I like where I live(don't get woke up in the middle of the night by gun shots,gang warfare,garbage littering the streets/sides of roads,potholes everywhere,need I go on?????? Go down to the Caribbean and tell the locals your "American",see what kind of response you get.Tell them your Canadian,entirely different.Why? You tell me.Don't place yourself "too" high on the pedistal,because if you happen to slip and fall,you'll be so far from reality the impact would leave a crater.

As "W.C." states "SHUT UP AND FISH!!"

[Pat K]

Well Jeff, I am not hiding, But I have been threatened in a news group before, buy someone that was able, and took the time to track my email. Low life, had nothing better to do. I suspect this indvidual was a Canadian, not an American. So nothing personal. As for you always winning a debate, I guess it is only because an indvidual probably justs gets tired of listening to your crap. You are debating how bad it is in Canada, and yet you admit not being here for years. So I see you are an authority on the subject. I see you missed the point about the Post Office, although it some time again, I don't think it has been 10 years, but that is not important. The point was, why one and only one bad event paints a picture of a whole country, I know as I am sure the majority of the users on this board know that the US as well as Canada are great places to be. You are happy in the US as we are happy with Canada. Pesonaly I am glad that you are a thinker, thought provoking debate is interesting, at least until the subject is worn out. I beleive this subject has run its course. I will leave you and others,with this thought as I have not noticed it addressed in this message board.
Can I bring Leech's and minnow's in the US?, Do I have to obey their laws?, I am sure I can just breeze through at the boarder?, cause I am Canadian, and well I guess the Game Wardens will ignore me because my license plates are from out of the country and I don't know any better.
Jeff, have a good day, its time for this guy to go wet a line. Good Luck & Good Fishing Pat

[Pat K]

Just for the record Jeff, gas, at least in Southern Ontario, is .75 cents (or less) a litre X 3.8 litres to a US gallon is $ 2.85 in Canadian $$.
Now you say it is $ 2.00 a gallon where you live. With appoximately 50% exchange rate that makes your fuel $ 3.00 Canadian. Looks like yours is more, not buy much. It used to be a big difference but it looks like you guys have caught up. btw do you know you get that you get some of your fuel from Canada. So when you do the math theres not much room for argument.
Have Fun Pat

[Anti-Jeff, not anti-American]

Jeff,

You wrote: "I haven't been to Canada in 10 years and don't plan on returning."

GOOD!

You wrote: "The US Post Office shootings were 10 years ago."

So, maybe they were. How about Columbine, Waco, The Freemen, Oaklahoma bombing, the Olympic bombing, drive-by shootings, etc. I am starting to see a trend here...

You wrote: "I did not start this thread on treatment of Americans in Canada. Somebody else did."

It's not the treatment of "Americans" it's the treatment of LAW-BREAKING Americans and I would hope law breaking Candadians got the same treatment.

You wrote: "...is excellent talk fodder and if Americans or Canadians can't take the debate of topics without being offended..."

Maybe it is "excellent talk fodder" but when you have to distort the facts and outright lie (ie: fuel prices and Canadian economy) I question how much of a "debate" you're after. I think you are just wanting to be a jackass for no other reason than to give all Americans a bad reputation. YOU may be that ignorant, but you'd be hard pressed to find a proud Canadian who didn't welcome any visitor to their country, so long as they followed the laws we have.

Good day, Jeff

[Aaron]

I'm an American and let me say this to all my
fellow cry baby Americans: If you can't follow
the rules and regulations in Canada then either
don't go or suffer the consequences of your actions. I have been going to Ontario for twenty
six years now and have never been treated unfairly
by anyone there---Could be because I follow the
rules. As far as I'm concerned, the tighter the
fishing restrictions and limits the better. It will just make for better fishing in the future. I hope the boarder patrol and CO's catch everyone
of you stupid disrespectfull idiots who have an
overwhelming desire to break the laws in Canada. I'm just thankfull that the Canadians allow me to
come back every year... Tight lines

Aaron--Indianapolis, IN USA

[Steve]

Well said Lady Fisher, but you're forgetting one thing. It wasn't just the fishermen that have or are currently ruining our lakes. I feel that the major problem started in the mid 1980's with economic development. The state of Ohio saw a chance to make millions and they jumped on it. They built up Lake Erie so much that it became the "Walleye Capitol of the World". Right now I don't think it's even the Capitol of Ohio. I've been going to Green Cove marina for years, even when there was nothing but corn fields. Now it is overdeveloped. The businesses advertised and people jumped on it. If Lake Erie and it's surroundings were just as they were in the mid 80's perhaps the fishing would be just as good as it was then. People can talk all they want about the spawn being down, gill nets taking over and water clarity, but the true disaster to lake erie came from people right here in the U.S. We have no one to blame but ourselves, including me, for the lack of fishing on the Lake in recent years. It's everyones duty, including Canadians, to help resolve the problems of our lake.

[Russ B]

Jeff just for your information on gas pricing here in Canada...
1 US gallon = 3.785 litres
gas in Alberta @ 67.9 cents a litre = $2.57 Canadian
and at todays rate of exchange that would be real close to $1.74 US for a US gallon.
So I guess that if you are paying $2.00 per gallon, Who is getting the shaft from the government?
Russ

[Johnny T]

I can't tell you guys(Americans)how surprised I am by all of the wonderful and positive replies that I've read here.When all of this nonsense started I said to myself,OH OH,This is not going to be pretty because we're out numbered 10;1,so best not to pull any punches.This was a huge mistake on my part as I can clearly see now.Of coarse you guys are welcome(more than welcome)Canada is a large country with vast areas of pure unadulterated wilderness with plenty of room to share with friends...This will be my last post on this subject because I feel in my heart that all the hurt (on both sides)has been healed..LOL Johnny T ........CANUCK

[Bud]

Stay at home if you don't like it here!! Sniveling baby *** American.
Ignorance of the laws is no excuse!
Bud

[jeff reed]

Just read in Flint Journal were the shooting sports (trap,skeet, pistol) in the Flint CANUSA games with Hamilton, Ontario were dropped because of red tape and a $50.00 per gun charge by the Ontario border officials. We American don't charge Canadiens who want to hunt in the USA a gun charge. As I've always said repeatly, "Its all about MONEY"

[Jeff reed]

Hey thanks. There is hope for your debating skills, but telling you opponent his viewpoint is "crap" won't win any points. Your right this subject is worn out, but for the record I dont't break Ontario's laws. I never bring back fish either, but I laugh alot though. As far as my not going to Ontario as basis for not knowing the problems is shortsighted on your part since with modern information technology one can figure out and formulate an opinion without the painful financial experience of traveling there. Sort of like not putting your finger in a propane torch or taking a vacation to Somalia. I'll be the first to agree with you that the US's criminal justice system stinks and there are way to many lowlifes breaking laws and killing people. Who ever said we make laws to PREVENT crime. The crimnal justice system deals with folks after the DEED is done and in the USA your justice is determined by how much of an attorney you can afford. Juan Valdez and his donkey will get much less "justice" than O.J. Simpson. I had a great time debating with you. Next time just for fun, take an opposing viewpoint that you don't necessarily agree with and see if you can have some fun debating with people. It's like being an attorney defending a guilty person to see if you can "get" him off.

[eyesore]

As a U.S. citizen, I don't get all this fuss. I just crossed the border last week with 10 pounds of leeches, 5 dozen worms [ in dirt ] 9 dozen minnows, 12 cases of budwieser, 1 bottle of jack, 1 bottle of gin, 3 cartons of marlboro lights, and 6 or 7 cubans. I claimed nothing, was sent on my way, NO PROBLEMO! I stayed on crowned land without a permit, fished without a licence, and brought back 40-50 walleyes and 4 muskys. I'm thinking of going back next month. I love canada!

[mkebenn]

I thought this was a valid forum and now it's become a circus, Why do you think it's fun to stir the pot? If I made ignorant statments that I knew were bull#### how does that add to the knowedge that any of us have, or are you in love with seenin' your words in print. I used to like it here, can you leave? Mike in E.A.

[Lunker]

Eyesore.....you're an ***....

[eyesore]

Lunker, your a nice person

[jeff reed]

Back your statements up with FACTS darling, GIVE me hard cold facts that state poachers and polluters caught in Canada are the same folks that polluted and poached in the USA. Your stereotyping statement is un-substantiated rhetoric intended to inflame opinion and I'm calling your HAND right NOW. THere is no facts that can back up your statements. You find some studies that link violators in Canada to violators in the USA in any sustantial quanities and I'll apologize. Its quite obvious you have never debated a hot topic before.

[jeff reed]

Don' let them bother you Eyesore, I thought your Post was the funniest thing I have read in months. By the way cigarette smuggling especially that brand DU MAURIER (sic) can bring you enough bucks to pay for your entire trip. Of course I don't have any personal knowledge to that, its just what I heard.

[Frank]

Mike; Just got back from camp and cannot believe what I am seeing.I have to leave this site alone for a few weeks or so,I hope the issues will pass and the good will stay.I respect your point of view and your integrity. Till then.
Good fishing: Frank

[Frank]

Eyesore: You are an idiot.
Frank

[TeeDub]

Sunshine, visitors with attitudes similar to yours will always be welcome, just as I hope to continue to be welcomed to your country. I would venture to guess that in your 23 years of coming to Canada, you have not once been "hassled" by the police or conservation officers. I've been visiting the US for longer than that and I've never been hassled. I've received a speeding ticket or two, but they weren't unwarranted and I wasn't hassled. It boils down to a matter of respect I think. Respect for the beliefs, laws and properties of others.... some have it and some don't!

[Jason]

Just to let you know that here in Canada, we also have freedom of speech. But who cares who dollar is worth more, we are here to fish, and enjoy our lakes, rivers and the such.

By the way..the reason why our beer costs more, is because it is not bottled water, like the states beer.

One final thing just like the board says shut up and FISH.

Proud Canadian.
Jason

[eyesore]

Frank, your a swell guy.

[Captain Hook]

My opinion of all of this nonsense is I wish ALL Americans would stay the ##### out of our country. We have very precious resources here and we do not need the arrogant attitudes of exploitation that you all seem to have. The main reason you come up here is because you have ruined every resource that you ever had by greed, leaving nothing in your own country. Thanks mainly to the american influence, the cost and ability of us Canadians to enjoy to hunt and fish here has skyrocketed. It is not surprising americans are Hated worldwide.

[Bob]

First of all, Last I knew, we are all Americans. It doesn't matter whether you live in Canada or the U.S. We all live in North America, which make us all Americans, like it or not. Nationality has nothing to do with your articles here. It's your your ethics and how you were raised. I live in the U.S. and own a cottage in Canada. I love Canada and someday would like to retire there. I hope people would respect me for whom I am and not because I came from the U.S. We have crooks, slobs, and inconsiderate people in both countries, but only a minority. We have to deal with it, but most of us are good people no matter where we come from.

[eyesore]

Captain Hook, please refrain from using the #### word at this site. Have a lovely day!

[eyesore]

Captain Hook, please stay out of alaska, we are saving it for later.

[Captain Hook]

As I read through the comments it is all the more clear, what a disgusting attitude americans have. You all think that we are dependant on you; what a joke. Again, it is by your influence that we must struggle to save our hard earned money just to enjoy a few days on the water. If you really cared about your fellow man you would devote your time to saving what is left of your country's resources rather than invading Canada and exploiting ours. Why don't you all stay where you belong and use your own contaminated leeches to catch your own contaminated fish, and leave our beautiful country alone. EXTREMELY PROUD TO BE A CANADIAN.

[eyesore]

Captain Hooh, if fishing is so great in canada [and all bad anywhere in the U.S.] why are you on your p.c. badmouthing all americans?

[Captain Hook]

First of all it made me sick to my stomach when I heard of the 7000 kilos of illegal fish seized. How typical of you americans! Take, take, take, having no regard for the resource let alone your fellow angler. As for the tight-wad (I can do whatever I want without regard for the regulations) who was whining about buying bait which when converted to US$ may amount to .37 cents, what a loser, and you americans wonder why the whole world hates your guts. Come on Canadians, wake up and smell the MANURE; How and why do you even dream of welcoming such vermine into our beautiful country? Response to ***/sore; I happen to live in the area where your fellow americans did the majority of the pillaging and thus now find it a waste of time to pursue my passion of angling in this area until it is replenished maybe in a couple hundred years!

[Steelhead Bob]

I'm suprised that so many Americans can find their way to Canada to fish. 99% can't even find their own country on a map.

[Buc]

Hey Guys, we all Americians here, North Americians! It is anglers like these that are all our enemies, be them cnd or us. This is bad for all of us, check it out.

#####://www.canada.com/cgi-bin/cp.asp?f=/ontario/windsor/stories/20000612/696777.html

Good Fishin
Buc

[Wylie]

I read the majority of all the responses. Agree with some and strongly disagree with others. But I must say that to protect your natural resources as best you can is of major importance. Yes, there are some political issues involved in the bait laws, along with some valid resource issues. The fact of the matter is that the Canadien government is trying to manage a yearly invasion of tourists, while still trying to satisfy its own people. I can imagine what a task that is.

The americans that travel to Canada for fishing can afford to, the majority of americans cannot even afford to go on vacation. I think that you should feel lucky that you can even afford to go. One post said "don't forget your are in someone elses house" that is probably the best put. When I visit someone elses house, I respect their rules and ways, point blank. It does not matter if I agree with them or not.....Rules are Rules.
Just my two cents.

[jeff reed]

GOOD POST. But I still vote with my dollars.

[jeff reed]

SEE, I told you she couldn't do it because there arent any!!!!!!!!!

[eyesore]

Dear Captain Hook, after reading all of your postings, I truely do have a great deal of respect for you to use an AMERICAN website to trash americans. You must surely be a better man than the rest of us. Us americans used to have a great cyber "resourse" until a few bad canadiens like yourself tainted our virgin computers. {stay out of alaska, I would'nt want you to bring your attituted or your bad conservation habits.] By the way, MR Supremist,whose country would save whose *** in a world crisis? 99.9% of canadiens are good people-.......Ask yourself, why do you fall in the one tenth of a percent. AYE????

[Captain Hook]

Poor response to the truth I told ***/sore, however I'm not surprised at your lack of wit. Next, thanks for the compliment on me being a better man, at least you realize that. As for alaska isn't that where the drunken american sailor carelessly dumped all that oil? I'm sure that had no impact on the environment. As for world crisis, if you idiots would mind your own business and deal with the rash of problems in your own country the world would be a much better place. And finally I speak for the silent majority of 99.9% of Canadians who truly don't want you here! PROUD CANADIAN!

[Paul L]

Quite an interesting thread... a lot of mixed views on the whole subject and reading the whole thread in one sitting can strain the eyes. The message I want to make here (putting aside differences between Americans and Canadians sportsmen/women), is that we will have to put our differences aside someday if PETA's agenda gains momentum. If they get their way we can all kiss the fisheries and wildlife goodbye. I don't believe they can attain their goals but I do believe that if governments decide to shut down hunting and fishing due to PETA lobbying, then there will be even more poaching then there ever was in the past. And it will happen on both sides of the border. I urge everyone (Canadians contact your MPs, Americans contact your Senators), we need to let the politicians know exactly how big of group we are!

[whitey]

YO GIRLS!!! something is really wrong here. I posted a request for some help with walley fishing about a week ago and got one, that;s 1, response.
Some U.S.A idiot goes to Canada and complains about some B.S. and there are 121 responses. I feel like I fell into the Jerry Springer show instead of Walley Central. Well I'm going north of the boarder in a month and right after the strip search at customs, I'm going to buy a bunch of those very expensive canadian leechs and try to catch some canadian walleye, which I won't, cause everyone knows you can't catch canadian walleye with canadian leechs. I also plan on drinking a few of those canadian beers, even though the stuff must taste like Sturgeaon Bay fish piss and costs $10 a can.I am going to take my own toilet paper, cause I hear them canuks still wipe their arse with birch bark.

[Fallsman]

Now wait just a cotton pickin minute Cap't Hook. I am also a Canadian and you certainly don't speak for me and I doubt very much that you speak for too many of us. Your rhetoric is garbage and I place your comments in the same heap of manure as those of Jeff Reed.

[Johnny T]

No Whitey, We dont' use birch bark to wipe our arse......We moved up to MOSS.....Johnny T...CANUCK

[Irv Johnson]

People-people-
You have a choice to make; if you want to fish Canada you have to abide by their laws. It s foreign country same as Mexico or Sweden. If you don't like it stay home. They passed laws suitable to them. I am age 70, been to Ontario fishing between 150-200 times. Love the people and respect them and always treated me right. Believe bait prices are too high? How cheap can you get to haggle on bait prices? Don't pay them-stay home. Same for beer. How many of US sports don't try to cheat at the border going up with lying about their gas, beer and everthing else. And on the way back with hidden fish? Canada is theirs. Love or leave it. We should clean up our own messes before bellaching about what you think of theirs.

[DG]

Just got through reading most of the messages posted on this topic. Read them because we just got back from the North side of Rainy Lake. Just have a couple of comments. First, I have yet to see a Canadian CO or PPO treat any U.S. citizen in a disrespectful manner unless the NR displays an attitude problem first. Second, we all know "or should know" the rules before we go to Canada for what ever reason. If your breaking the law then be prepared to pay the price. Third, Ya, the border crossings are a mess but if you schedule your arrival and departure times you can miss most of the problems. Fourth, we started buying Canadian bait years ago. Check the price, it's not that much more expensive. Big factor for us was mortality of the bait when you transport it over long distances. Also, it's easier to find quality bait in Canada where we go fishing. I could go on, but the bottom line still is, if you are dissatisfied with your Canadian experience, just don't go. If your sentiments are shared by enough Americans, then fishing will become a lesser contributor to the Canadian GNP. Walleyes are great but remember, it's better (and more fun) to be a multispecies fisherperson anyway.
Keep a tight line and keep fishing.

[Kevin J. Blake]

>Greed is a pretty strong word.
>I would prefer the word
>job creation as a better
>choice. When you really think
>about it the amount of
>money expended on bait versus
>your entire trip, it doesn't
>really matter.It is only a
>very small part of the
>trip. Also I've used our
>Canadian leeches and the American
>ones when they were legal.
>Our Canadian leeches caught more
>walleyes and were not as
>dificult to handle as the
>American ones.
>
> Good
>fishing: Frank

Where to start !?! I agree 100% with the respect for the land, the resources, and can even understand the lowering of the daily bag limits to allow the fishing to continue to be strong for generations to come. No problem ... and everyone is responsible to no the regs ... ignorance carries no weight in these matters. However where I disagree is your comment that the cost of leeches is a very low number vs your total trip cost. That used to be true !!! NOW ... a resort owner which can remained unnamed chose to charge us $32.00 (Canadian) a pound for what I would consider a large leech, not a Jumbo not a small or medium by any regard. In Wisconsin or Minnesota the Jumbo Leeches can be purchased for $18 (US) on the extreme high side of the market. Large leecehs by the pound are $10 - $12 a pound in US Dollars. So you do the math. 6 pounds used to cost us $72 US, now $192 Canadian or give or take $144 US ... sounds like Double the cost to me.

As I stated earlier ... I have absolutely no problem supporting a Province, community, resort, or lake that I am allowed to utilize. However please don't pay for a new lodge or new cabins based on a regulatory change for bait transport.

As stated ... Greed may be a strong word, however I would like to come up with a more suttle word.
If you happe nto know the costs per bait / leech harvesting license and if it is based annually or limited in quanity ... I'd love to hear it !

I would love to hear your view point(s) to help set my mind at ease or to confirm what I have already thought.

Thank you and God Speed,
Kevin J. Blake

[irv johnson]

Question to you Canadian bashers........
Have you noticed how many resorts,camps,etc.. are owned by U.S. citizens? Why if this country is so hateful,unfair, etc... do they find themselves becoming citizens and under their terrible dictates? If its so hateful to the U.S.sports why do they still keep coming to Canada? Because its wonderful in so many ways. But respect it and quit your bellaching. (grow up)

[jeff reed]

Well there you go, minus 2 points for inflammatory personal attacks. Guess your not a debater either are you BIG FELLA??

[Jeff reed]

The reason so many AMERICANS OWN CANADIEN CAMPS AND RESORTS is because we AMERICANS GOT ALL THE MONEY.

[I Am Canadian]

After reading all the responses on this thread, I feel I must speak also.

Like others have said "respect it or don't come here" it's that simple. The citizens of this vast country plan on investing in fish for the future. With some of the attitudes out there, we are doing the right thing. You will see more intense cut backs of the limits to the point where an angler will only be able to keep enough for a small shorelunch (aggregate bag of a few fish). We will expect all, to respect our right to limit fish kill. We are expecting the MNR to enforce this to a high degree. If the meat pigs continue as they still do today, then expect more disturbance in fish and game checks and such. We aim to keep our fishing in pristine shape.

For the bait complainers out there. We don't need anymore of your introduced species up here. We now have Rusty Crayfish in L.O.T.W's, Smelt all over the place, strange leeches, blue gills from bait bucket fisherman, bullheads, and who knows what else was brought in by some idiot who felt it was their right to do so. We could care less about the price of leeches and as the most outspoken "Jeff Reid" says " Americans are the ones with the money" are the ONLY complainers. Doesn't make sense.

It is true that many Americans own lodges up here. Your great citizens such as Minesota's Bob Lesard (Senator) can afford to purchase off the trail cabins in our great land and then pay off key players to exclude Canadians from utilizing their back yards. This american is threating to take everybody to court that he feels is in his way in regards to "his" lake as he calls it (money). This is the classic example of the rich American gone wrong. This man has become the scourge of N.W.Ontario and is beginning to raise great awareness with his John Wayne approach. It is so typical. Yuch! I want to puke.

The latest game checks reveal what we locals have been telling our MNR, There are many, that simply believe it is their right to come to Canada and be filthy fish pigs.At the last game check, 7000 Kilo's of over limit fish from 200 and some vehicles is reason enough to believe it is way out of hand. We will force our MNR and justice system to strip any gross violators of all of their belongings and give them a ride to the border and send them on their way.

For some reason I believe most of the complainers are either fish pigs or they live close to the border and hate our new fish for the future regulations. TOO bad! Live with it!


Make no mistake about it. The local people in Ontario are opening their eyes to such attitude and it will not be tolerated for long. Disrespectfull people have a way of ruining it for the rest of good folks out there.

This is our land not yours. Tread lightly or don't tread at all.

Looking forward to the next game check. See ya there., I will be the big guy with a smile on my face and a thumbs up to the self respecting law abiding fisherman.

Ah! that felt pretty good.

[eyesore]

Captain Took The Rook Book, yeah, a drunken American ran aground in Alaska, but he was drinking Moosehead!

[irv johnson]

Jay Ried---True we,ve got all the money but the question is WHY DO WE INVEST IT IN CANADA?? Ever hear of opportuniies in the good old USA?? Stock market? Lots of places. Not as good as Canada, eh????

[Rod]

Sorry... we wipe 'em with American egos.

[jeff reed]

Because the US dollar is worth 40% in Cananda, plus it aint no fun making 18% on the stock market while playing shuffleboard with the old folks in Florida.

[Johnny T]

Hey Man, we've all had our bad times, but believe me there is help out there..I swear, I've been their man!!!!The shakes only last for a few days!!I swear to ..ahh oh yeah to ahh what was that again???

[Unimpressed]

Why do I get the feeling Jeff Reid just learned how to read and write.

[whitey]

If U.S.A americans have ALL THE MONEY, why all the *****in about the cost of canadian bait,paying to camp on crown land, the cost of a beer and "What's the cost of gas"? I think we all ought to grab our rods and go fishin'and stop all the *****in'.

[Big Al]

All this dammned whinning about minnows, leeches, camping fees, leaving a bit of skin on the fillets ,and on and on.
If you don't want to follow the law of the land, then invade us and make your own laws to suit yourself or stay to ##### HOME.
I'm a local Canadian and follow the laws and regs and I just love to fish, so why not get on with some enjoyment and go drown some worms.

[eyesore]

Holy shanikies, 133 reply's, nuf said.

[Blackie]

Right on.
but, when in Rome...do as the Roman's do, eh?

[Ken]

The Ontario fisheries and wildlife minister has been promoting Canadian fisheries down in the States, needless to say I will not vote for him and his party. I was quite put off when the fishing licenses came out for residence of Ontario but it was an evil I could handle as the funds were going towards the sport I most enjoy. The prices have been raised and of course taxed. The way government works this was forseeable again a tollerated money grab(I pay $15 (I think it $17.50 this year) cnd every 3 years and I buy the card needed to cary my licence on this is 3 dollars cnd). I have not seen much of an improvement in our fisheries since licencing came into effect. I have seen how good the fishing was say 30 years ago but I find the european attitude of catch as much as you can then catch more really took a big bite into our fisheries. I would like to see our rivers streams and lakes get a break, so that the fish stocks can gain back there once plentiful population. So I wouldn't mind seeing the states back off unless you come up here to catch and release and respect a depleating resource. Not just the states but the residence of Ontario who don't know what the regulations were put there for.
Anyways that was my rant and fishful thinking
Ken

[Ken]

The Ontario fisheries and wildlife minister has been promoting Canadian fisheries down in the States, needless to say I will not vote for him and his party. I was quite put off when the fishing licenses came out for residence of Ontario but it was an evil I could handle as the funds were going towards the sport I most enjoy. The prices have been raised and of course taxed. The way government works this was forseeable again a tollerated money grab(I pay $15 (I think it $17.50 this year) cnd every 3 years and I buy the card needed to cary my licence on this is 3 dollars cnd). I have not seen much of an improvement in our fisheries since licencing came into effect. I have seen how good the fishing was say 30 years ago but I find the european attitude of catch as much as you can then catch more really took a big bite into our fisheries. I would like to see our rivers streams and lakes get a break, so that the fish stocks can gain back there once plentiful population. So I wouldn't mind seeing the states back off unless you come up here to catch and release and respect a depleating resource. Not just the states but the residence of Ontario who don't know what the regulations were put there for.
Anyways that was my rant and fishful thinking
Ken

[Ron]

We have to follow the same rules; if you find these rules unfair--stay home. Europeans, especially the Brits and Germans, are just beginning to take advantage of our natural resources and coming here to fish. Unlike the Americans who rarely purchase anything in Canada despit an exchange rate that favours them, the Europeans find that fishing in Canada is relatively inexpensive compared to Europe even after factoring in the cost of airfare. They also respect our conversation laws. Several weeks ago Ontario Conversation Officers siezed 7,000 kilos (15,400 lbs) of illegially caught fish at the Canada/US border in one day. They only stopped approximately 260 vehicles. They should have siezed the vehicles, because that is the penalty a Canadian would have been subject to had he/she been caught with an excessive amount of fish over the legal limit.

[KEN]

Hay if your going to get drunk it mite as well be on good beer...Eh?

[eyesore]

What are the details on the 7000 kilo's of fish I keep reading about? Who, what, when, where, and, why?

[dlhomes]

THe truth of this whole subject is... Canada is full of wildlife and wilderness! That is why I have a cabin up there and get upnorth every chance I get, however the regulations change as much as the weather and even bait shop owners can't fill you in on the details. The MNR is doing a great job of protecting the resources but I believe they are going to go too far. All the locals I have met have been pretty friendly and they all love the U.S. funds, but they give me a funny look when I pay w/ Canadian. I'm not going to bash Canucks they have to make a living too, I'm just not going to get screwed any more than I have i.e. the bag limits, rules etc. If you Canadians are watching whats going on then please explain all the commotion and surprise when they closed the spring bear hunt. I do care what happens but I will not be strangled slowly by the MNR, I'll just watch quietly as they cut their own throats!!

[river rat]

First of all, to the canadians who like poking fun at polluted minnesota lakes, guess where the acid rain comes from morons? your filthy paper industry and other industries are poisoning everything south of you-thanks alot. Its funny how you canadians bad mouth us and yet here in Duluth, our stores are packed with canadians on the weekends! On June 24 we were stopped outside of Dryden for a fish and license check and I will have to say the treated us VERY good. We had our legal limit of walleyes and were complimented on our fish packaging. I will have to say my future trips to canada will be very limited. Its quite obvious with that the MNR doesnt want non-residents around. The new regulations each year say it all. The regs pertaining to fish are good. The rest are detterents-and yes they are working. That should make capt.knot head i mean hook happy. I must say however I know how it feels to have your lakes raped by fish pigs. I wish Minnesota would stop letting people from Wisconsin and Iowa fish here.
Its getting so the locals dont have anywhere to park at the boat landings or campgrounds. Maybe thats why we keep going to Canada. Tight lines to all the sensible people.

[Debbie]

well said!

hopefully our great-grandchildren will have the same opportunity to fish as we do!

[Frank]

Read this mornings Thunder Bay paper and one of the articles was "15 fined for fishing offences" Seems our MNR has been busy. "Fifteen anglers, all American, were convicted in Sioux Lookout court last week for overfishing. Total fines were $8,850. Six anglers were fined a total of $7200 for possessing 32 walleye over the allowable limit." The anglers were from Key West,Fla., and Ohio. Seems the message is not sinking in, that we will not tolerate this kind of behaviour. Justice of the peace Marg Pasloski was quoted as saying, "We would be better off if these people never returned." When the MNR checks you they are just doing their job ensuring the long term viability of a fishery. To me it is a minor inconvenience. Co's are also a valuable source of information as to where the fish are biting. All you have to do is ask them.
Good fishing: Frank

[Captain Hook]

Hey river rat, I can see that you are really intelligent. You want everyone out of your state but you see no problem with coming to Canada to screw it up for us locals. What you idiots don't realize or care about is that you are the ones driving the prices up and then you have the arrogance to whine about it! We can barely afford to go fishing in our own country due to the american invasion. %#*#-off and stay home; we don't want you here!

[Ken]

It was hard to get the spring bear hunt closed but as you noticed we did it....I am suprised that another country pays attention to our internal affairs but thanks for noticing. I'm sure that if more people from the states lobbied against the bear hunt we could keep it closed. Keep up the good work.

[Ken]

Have you ever noticed that most of the prevailing winds are Northern...something to think about.

[eyesore]

Ken, the black bears thank you, but all the booked up outfitters last spring who lost their *** in revenue...probably do not

[jeff reed]

If I was the judge I would have TRIPLED the FINE. Any rich Republican that can afford to live in Key West Florida can afford it, stick his rich *** in jail with a big biker kinda guy as a cell mate. Those RICH Reagan Republicans make me sick with their self righteous pompous arrogance.

[River rat]

Hey captin crook, your wish has been granted. I'm not coming back at least not anytime soon. And dont you be crossing our border either EH! When I do come back it will be to Manitoba. Americans are still liked there.

[Luv 2 Fish]

To you Canadian's fisherman or woman most of us US fishmem and women that fish the Canadian waters don't have a big ***** about what you are doing with the laws, just make it the same for us as it is for you. All most of us want to do is come up there fishing for a week to get away for the hassel of work and don't want to hear the phone ring. I have been fishing Canada for the last 27 years with my family and friends, we just got back a week ago from our trip, there was 32 of us with the youngest being my grandaughter at 10 months and the oldest being 83, we had excellent trip. We had our 2 fish a day with one over 18 limit and threw back a lot of fish 18 to 26 daily while our Canadian friends in camp kept there 6 fish a day, I know they are your resource and I know you pay a premiun price for your license as we do (not) $35.00 for a 7 day or 80 for a season. I know you spend just about the same about of money in the resorts and camp grounds, gas, bait and food the we spend in a week, if you did you would have be one rich SOB. And as for those few that take to many fish over they limit I'am with you fry them and make them pay dearly but don't make the 99 0/0 legal fisherman pay the price for them. And Ken I would love to come back and hunt bear again in the spring and so would my outfitter your fellow Canadian trying to make a living. Maybe when the Black Bear get completely out of control then you see how management can work.

[Ken]

Whith every decision there is a side that wont like it or will get hurt lukely it's just the outfitters and not the black bears.

[Johnny T]

Hey man,you want bears??Try western Canuckland,we are talking GRIZZLIES here!!!!!GOOD LUCK!!(not to mention big horn sheep,mountain goat,moose,elk,caribou,whitetails,mule deer,wolves, and them dang pesky coyotes,and for you bird hunters,don't forget about our canucklehead geese...LOL

[Ken]

You know it's all good and untill someone gets poked in the eye....LOL

[Ken]

If you have any questions or concerns about Ontario fisheries here is a place that should be able to deal with them. There are also the rules and reg's too. #####://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/MNR/fishing/

[Ken]

#####://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/MNR/fishing/exotic.html
hopefully that will answer the original post that started this.

[BD]

I've been going to the same outfitter for 13 years. He imports his leeches from Minnesota and Wisconsin. It's all a matter of where you spend your money on bait not on anything else.

[BD]

I follow your laws! I feel that those who violate should be punished. I object to the treatment I have received as a law abiding fisherman. I am polite and respectful when talking to your officers yet some of them still treated me badly. Each contact is different. They should be professional enough to treat each person as necessary and not let problems they have had earlier affect them in the present.

[Frank]

Just as a matter of being informed as to my southern neighbors, I am wondering if someone can fill me in on importing bait to the US. If I wanted to go fishing in MN or WS could I bring my own minnows and leaches from Canada. Perhaps someone could also fill me in on camping on state or federal lands.
Good fishing: Frank

[steelhead]

question mark unimpressed

[traveller]

I'm sure you only took two home with you. The law is two fish in your possession, period. If you eat two you can go and catch two more. Recently some folks from Ohio were in court using the excuse they fished for ten days so they were entitled to twenty fish in their possession. They were wrong as their wallets sure showed as they were fined one hundred dollars per fish over the limit. Also in Canada the M.N.R. have more power than the police, they can come in your home and check your freezer without a search warrant.

[curt quesnell]

im am glad they were fined and hope they learned
something.....
the minnesota dnr also does not need a warrent
to come check your freezer. they do need some
very good probable cause and dont bust in on
empty freezers...

the cheaters are everywhere...in canada and in
the u.s. i just hope they keep catchin em.

curt quesnell