Hoof and Mouth

[Captn Ric]

I was talking to fellow fisherman in Scotland yesterday and he brought up a point I hadn't thought of.. In Europe all fishing is banned for now for fear of spreading the disease from fresh water lakes and rivers.. A large fine is levied against offenders!! Consider ourselves her vey lucky and lets hope the efforts to contain the virus works

[TLY]

Is this for real? It sounds so impossible what with warm blooded mammals vs cold blooded fish. The food chain could really get messed up. I have enuf problems with looking for milfoil everywhere I go and Zebras and ........

They spray the veggies so whats left? Is safe sex safe?

TLY

[Steve(CO)]

This sounds like a bit of a stretch to me. I'm a veterinarian and I no of no evidence that FMD would be spread through fish in lakes and streams. The only connection I could make is that cattle and sheep use the lands surrounding the waterways and that restricting access would restrict people from picking up the virus from the pastures on their shoes or equipment . That might make more sense. Simply keeping people out of potentially contaminated areas would help to reduce the spread. This whole business is scary for sure.

[Tim Kelly]

I'm from England. At the moment fishing is banned pretty well everywhere, but it is because they want to restrict people from moving around unnessecarally and spreading the infection on clothes, cars etc.

We have been under these restrictions for 3 or 4 weeks now and it's becoming very boring! We all have every sympathy for the poor farmers who's herds are being destroyed to help control the spread of F&M. Some of these herds have taken generations to build up and are irreplacable.

Let's hope the measures being taken work, it's costing the country a fortune in lost earnings from tourism, fishing etc as well as the direct cost to farming.

Tim

[205]

Maybe we should only eat Food (fish and meat)that is government grown and inspected? What are they doing over there with other hoofed animals like deer that could spread the dreaded disease? Kill all the deer? Don't want to sound skeptical, but ??????? I don't put a lot of faith in EVERY thing the government says. Red White and Blue Russell

[Keef]

It may yet come to that. There is talk of sending in the army to wipe out deer populations if they become infected with foot and mouth disease.
Its pretty bad over here, the British countryside could in effect be shut down for the whole summer. The economic cost will be enormous.
I am thinking about booking a trip to Canada - may be the only fishing I get in this year.

Keef

What a bummer, eh Tim!

[james /loch lomond]

Hi Keef its james here , you obviously get around the message boards, it was me capt ric was talking to about the foot and mouth if you are looking for a good fishing holiday try capt ric at busy b charters i had a holiday in the US 2 years back and had a great time on his boat catching walleyes and bass etc, and i still have the vision of the steelhead i caught erupting from the water like a missile and bouncing allover the suface of the loch "sorry lake" you should try it and it is easy to get to fl;y from glasgow to cleveland and then get a taxi to lorain.
bye james.

[Keef]

James,
Thanks for the info. Will make a note of that.
Was thinking more musky or pike for this year though.

Keef

[vetspet(ind)]

is it true that regular people can not fish in europe and england?....that just seems so strange...who decides who gets to fish?...steve...i'm speaking about during "normal" times

[RANGER]

Tim,
Keef,

I have been watching this and following here and I must say that this has to be a TERRIBLE cost to the People of your country, both emotionally as well as economically. I know that sheep farms have been a FAMILY HERITAGE to quite a number of your farmers in the British Isles and this has to be devastating! I hope you folks will pull through this, my condolences to all!


RANGER


"KEEP YOUR LINES WET, YOUR POWDER DRY and THE BEER COLD"

[Joe]

In talking with a vet the other day, he claims that they are not as worried about hoof and mouth as much as mad cow. He claims its just a matter of time before it gets here and then watchout. It could be divastating. My butcher told me to buy my meat now. Boxed beef went up .35 cents in a week. He claims by summer rib eye is expected to be $10 per pound

[Backwater Eddy]

I was told that the supply of Buffalo is high and the price for it is at a low point. Cheaper then beef in some areas I have been told. We have a lot of buffalo farmers in ND with large herds. If you have never tried it do, it is great!

Word here too is beef will go sky high very soon too.

Backwater Eddy

[Leechboy:]

If (when)mad cow spead to north america, beef demand will plummet, but a bigger issue is how the disease will effect the food chain. I read an Outdoor life article that talked about a form of CJ that a hunter had and the so called experts traced it back to his consuming Elk out west. Where will it stop? The possiblities are scary, and we really are learning about the thing as we go.

[Keef]

Thanks Ranger, appreciate that.

Keef

[CJW]

What scares me the most is talk through the grapevine that peta wants to send people over to England to purposely bring hoof and mouth back to get everyone to stop eating animals. Rumors say they even spread it to Europe. They have no sense or haven't you seen their ad campaigns last year and this year. These people are so clueless its scarey. Their even trying to qoute the book of revelations in the bible in our local paper.
They be some freeky people!!!
Craig

[minneman]

Just heard on the news this am, there are poss. 2 cases of Mad cow in Mn, any one else here this??

[fishless]

You're right about the Mad Cow stuff. Hoof and Mouth is like a case of the sniffles compared to spongiform encephalopathy. We don't even know really what this stuff is because it doesn't use DNA to reproduce. You can soak an infected brain in formeldehyde for 20 years and it doesn't kill it. You can surgically sterilize tools that have come in contact with it in an autoclave and it doesn't kill it.
Our immune system can't detect it. The finest filters that can strain any other virus can't collect it.
Since it takes a half dozen years to develop animals that have it may show no indication of being infected at the time they are slaughtered and sent to the butcher shop.
Very very scary.
Suggest reading "Deadly Feasts" by Richard Rhodes. After finishing it I had nightmares for a week.

[CRAZY?]

ARE YOU PEOPLE STARTING TO SEE IT NOW? I READ A POST ON ANOTHER MESSAGE BOARD THE OTHER DAY AND IT TOLD A STORY ABOUT THOSE SHEEP IN VERMONT, THEY SAID THOSE SHEEP DIDNT HAVE MAD COW DISEASE. THE GOV. WAS AFRAID THEY MIGHT HAVE IT BECAUSE THOSE SHEEP CAME FROM BELGIUM AND HAD AT ONE TIME EATEN THE TYPE OF FEED THAT IS FEARED TO CAUSE MAD COW DISEASE!! WHAT ARE WORLD POWERS UP TO?? HOW MUCH ARE THEY COVERING UP... FOR OUR OWN GOOD? OR IS THIS A FABRICATION?? YOU KNOW I BELIEVE THAT MAYBE H&M COULD SPREAD TO FISH... WHERE DOES THE FARMERS FEED LOTS DRAIN. MAYBE INTO THE RIVER AND THEN ON TO THE LAKE. IF H&M IS SPREAD BY THE POOP THEN IT COULD CONCEIVABLEY END UP IN THE LAKES AND RIVERS. WHAT ABOUT THE DEER AND THAT, I HEARD ABOUT SOME DEER THAT HAD H&M IN MICH. LAST FALL. HOW CAN YOU TELL BY LOOKING AT AN ANIMAL IF IT HAS H&M? AND NOW THEY ARE TELLING US THAT IT ISNT TRANSMITABLE,YET I ALSO HEARD THAT IT WILL TAKE 2-3 YEARS OF STUDY TO FIND OUT IF THOSE VT. SHEEP HAD THE MAD COW DISEASE??? I AM STARTING TO THINK WE ARE ALL SCREWED, DONT WORRY ABOUT THE GAS AND UTILITY CRISIS. THINK MORE ABOUT OUR FRESH WATER #1, AND OUR SCREWED UP FOOD CHAIN

[GullGuide]

It would not surprise me at all if the crazies at PETA would even try to spread Mad Cow to get people to stop eating meat. I know it sounds like a big conspiracy theroy, but I would not put it past those nuts.
Does anyone know if Mad Cow affect birds such as Chickens, Ducks, Geese, Pheasants, Grouse, etc.?
>"////=<

[205]

How many of you live on a farm? Can MC spread to birds. This thing is getting exploded on this forum as bad as the media. :-) They've been using the same old Holstein on the news for the last 4 years with mad cow. Slipping and shaking on that wet, slick, sidlin concrete. If they would of kept the camera on it, you'd of problably seen the guy slip and bust his ####. I would of. Anyway, I just was wondering how many of you actually farm. I was transporting some cattle one day with my livestock trailer. And I forgot to put my mats down. Well, after a crap or two it got pretty slick. One of the cows lost her balance and went spread eagle. She was shaking so bad and I was scared the other cows would stomp her and possibly bust her up pretty bad. I had to stop and unload all the others immediately so I could help her. Had a ####ova time getting her out of the trailer. Thought she might of broke her pelvis. Shes OK today to let you know. :-) My point is, that if I would of had a camcorder and had taped the action, I probably would have the FDA on my ####. My grandad died eating to many fatty greasy porkchops. He was 78! As far as me, I got 27 years to go.:-) And if I get MC or H-n-M, or die from to many fatty steaks or too many Crisco fried feesh. At least I'll die happy. The rest of you can eat weeds. Im gonna keep eating my own farm raised beef and pork. And all the walleye I can get in my gut. Im not going to let the governer dictate what I eat. Russell :-) ;-)

[Buckeye]

Crazy don't freak out on us! :-) Don't confuse H&M with Mad Cow disease. Mad cow has been controlled in by the elimnation of rendered animal by-products in the feed. This has been a common source of fat and protien in rations for ages.

H&M is highly transmissable on almost any surface. I think the ban on fishing isn't because of contact directly with fish or water but simply to reduce traffic and potential transmission of H&M on the boots of traveling fishermen and/or the tires of their vehicles. There is simply an effort to reduce non essential traffic in the UK.

Also somebody asked about birds contracting H&M. I think one of the veterinarians that frequent this board could answer that better than I can but if memory serves me right it only infects cloven hoofed animals. There is a concern though of birds transmitting the disease by moving from an infected herd or dead animals to other places. This is a contact situation though like the boot/vehicle tire scenario as opposed to infection of the birds. Deer are certainly succeptable to H&M.

Michigan has problems with bovine TB and some elk and deer herds out west had something simular to mad cow (can't remember the exact disease) but I have not heard that H&M has been found in any deer herd in the U.S.

[vetspet(ind)]

foot and mouth (FMD) is a viral disease of any cloven hooved animal...incl deer...cows...pigs...sheep and goats...horses i'm not sure, i dont think it attacks horses...i am only a small animal vet...did get an aphis update in mail just last wk on it....animal and plant health inspection service....the virus does not infect fish nor birds but birds can transmit the disease via what we call a fomite...they carry the virus to the next farm on their bodies for a while these viruses remain intact on boots etc...they are very contagious...usa has been free of this virus since 1929..causes erosions and blisters of the tongue,lips, mouth, teats, and between the hooves....most animals survive but are poor "doers"...don't grow well,,,,poor milk production....therefore it is a severe economic disease to the livestock industry and dairy industry....the virus survives in lymph nodes and bone marrow but is destroyed in muscle tissue whe the ph goes below 6...(rigor mortis does this)the virus can persist in contaminated fodder and on boots etc for up to a month depending on temp and ph...there are at least 7 strains or types of FMD and immunity to one type does not protect against the other types...no cross immunity...web site is www.aphis.usda.gov..........or contact usda,aphis at 301-734-8073 .....mad cow disease....bovine spongioform encephalopathy is another viral disease which i think there are 80 some cases diagnosed in humans...attacks the brain...the sheep from vermont may have been exposed..i believe they have to remove brain tissue from suspect sheep and try to infect mice with the tissue this takes time and special facilities...the other disease out west is brucelosis...which is a venereal disease of cattle which got into the buffalo herds out west...this disease can infect humans.."bangs" disease or undulant fever...pretty nasty disease in humans...a classmate of mine got it and had to drop out for two yrs...dogs can get their own variety and it is basically not treatable..many breeders require a brucelosis test before they will permit breedings as it causes abortions and infertility in dogs and is basically not treatable....hope this helps

[Tim Kelly]

There seems to be some confusion about Foot(hoof) and Mouth disease and BSE (Mad Cow Disease). F&M is highly contagious and can be spread very easily by air, physical contact, etc. BSE is a terrible disease, but seems to be passed on by eating infected meat, which needs to have come into contact with infected spinal cord or brain. BSE is therefore fairly easily controlled if infected animals are removed from the food chain. F&M is much scarier as once it is in a country it becomes indemic in the deer, sheep, goats, pigs etc.

The latest from the government is that they are killing all cloven hooved farm animals within (I think) 2 miles of an outbreak to try to isolate the infection. I don't know how they are going to stop wild deer travelling between these areas though.

Quite when we will be allowed to move freely in the country again is completely unknown at the moment. Some people are speculating that the outbreak won't be contained until August. We'll see....

Good fishing

Tim

[205]

How about killin all the mice,rats,foxes,squirrels,coons,all the birds and insects that land in contaminated areas. Even snakes! I'll have some real good Hereford-Angus meat for sale come this fall for 500 dollars a pound. Hey, who knows maybe I will be able to afford gas to go to a few more tournaments this year. :-);-)

[GOT BEEF!]

HEY I GOT 5 STEERS I WAS GONNA MARKET. WITH ALL THIS STUFF GOIN ON I THINK I WILL JUST KEEP THEM FOR MY SELF SINCE IT IS THE ONLY BEEF I KNOW THAT IS SAFE,FOR NOW!