"BAN THE NETS PETITION"

[cmb]

I went to the cleveland sport show sunday afternoon. When I was in line to get my 2001 ohio fishing license I was asked to sign a petition to "ban commercial fishing in lake erie". I did not sign this petition; and here is why

1)the only sport fish commercialy harvested in ohio waters is the yellow perch. a ban on all netting would affect the commercial harvest of other species including carp, drum, and goldfish. Species for which most fishermen don't target, and are even considered a nusiance.

2) The Perch fishery (in my eyes) is not so impacted, poor, or depleted that it is threatened by the continuance of both commercial and sport fishing.

3) I can not put the pleasure I personaly gain from fishing over the livleyhood of the commercial fishermen who have a heritage and tradition of living off the lake.

4) If this petition was targeting "the canadians" I would like to wait and see if the newly adopted regulations make a difference before completly driving them out of business, please refer to #3

I understend I will recieve a lot of flack from some people on this board, however PLEASE DO NOT:

1) personaly attack me or my character (only my reasoning or opinion)
2) bring in any unnessesary politics
3) have a whining match that could result in this thread having an untimly death.

IF I am wrong Please set me strait

[sib]

disclosure:
i've never fished erie, so i might not be effected by it.

you did the right thing for yourself. if you have reservations about the issue you shouldn't sign a petition. i think it's far worse to jump on a band wagon if you have no idea where it's heading. hey, maybe someone here will point out something you over looked, if so, the petition can still be signed.

one of the risks of giving advice is that others may reject it, so be it that's life.:-)

"go outside and play"
sib

[bob oh]

CMB, I think the ban the nets petitions are aimed at gill nets which are not used in Ohio. But, there is a movement in Ohio to also get rid of commericial fishing in Erie and before you decide to be in favor of any nets in Ohio waters you should consider that there are very, very few commercial licenses in Ohio waters of Lake Erie and that the holders of these licenses pay almost nothing for the privledge of harvesting our natural resource. Also, you should compare the number of jobs and families supported by sport fishing and tourism on Lake Erie in Ohio with the very, very few jobs created by and maintained by the commerical fishing industry. Finally, the perch fishery has been greatly impacted by the commercial industry (you don't really think we have had to go from no limit to a 30-fish limit on perch because of sportfishermen do you???); and the commercial industry devastated the white bass fishery (which is starting to show some comeback), and they kill many, many eyes and small mouth bass by "mistake." Yes, I have seen the kills, and if you will contact the LECBA (lecba.org) they can provide you with pictures of large fish kills in Sandusky Bay caused by these "fishermen." Signing is up to you, but please get more facts before you decide to gamble our sportfishing future.
Bob

[Nettr]

You are wrong. The netting of game fish is George Bush's fault because he hates the environment.

[cisco]

Folks said the perch were safe in Lake Michigan, too. Yet, after virtually unlimited commercial harvest in Indiana waters, with more in Illinois and Wisconsin (Michigan abandoned theirs), the perch collapsed in the big lake.

As with any mammoth management scheme, there's more than one explanation -- however, over harvest of perch by commercial fishers did not help retain a viable perch population in L.M.

Indiana fishers alone would line the little corner of lakeshore off Indiana with 5,000 miles of net. It's a wonder anything could swim past.

[cmb]

the perch fishery is only impacted by commercial fishing?
not sportfishing and the great physical, chemical, and biological
changes of the past decade?

my opinion is that there is a massive change of the lakes biological communities occuring. Is this change the result of commercial or sport fishing? no, it is just one part of the big picture. will a moratorium on sportfishing rebuild the fisheries of the 80's and 90's ? no; so why should we impose our selfish and biased opinions on the commercial industry of ohio?


on a $ for $ basis sportfishing is certinly a more valuable industry; however, are the few remaining ohio netters being "scape goated" for larger underlying problems/changes occuring within the lake?
I have spent some time studying lake ecosystems and know that they, and the other physical and chemical factors involved, are much too complicated, interelated, and diverse for any human to comprehend. based on this, I am not comfortable blaming the few remaining commercial operations for current sportfish population problems. without that certinty I can not in good concience vote to put famlies out of work.

there is no arguing the fact that some fish are killed as bycatch, but is there any evidence that this relativly small percentage of fish could significantly impact the fisheries?

should netters be regulated? yes. Put out of work? I can't say

[cmb]

understood, but ohio's Lake Erie commercials are restricted. the Canadians have just imposed much lower commercial limits. I have no reservations about the impact of past commercial practices, but think we need to take a wait and see aproach to the new regs. before completly shutting these operations down. they can have their place.

there is no doubt that some sportfish populations are down from past levels. overharvest (by sportfishermen as well as commercials) has undoubtedly played a role, but much greater are the changes that have and are occuring within the lake.

[RODBUSTER]

NO nets (sorry time to find a new job)Take the few netters that are left put them in a job where the can do some good for the lake,and burn all the nets.

[RODBUSTER]

NO nets (sorry time to find a new job)Take the few netters that are left put them in a job where the can do some good for the lake,and burn all the nets.

[Hawgeye]

I am going to assume that the comment made by Nettr is completely tongue in cheek. If not, find another place to post your useless remarks about something that you obviously know nothing about. Unless you have good facts and information, your comments are not of any value. Otherwise, if meant as tongue in cheek, you got me! :)

[Nettr]

Sorry Hawgeye, I will take the tongue out of my cheek now.

[Amberjack]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the damage commercial fishing can do. Look at Georges Banks and the other Great fishing grounds of the recent PAST. I worked around the industry for some 12 years. Remember something in the industry most everyone is paid by the pound. More fish more money, a thousand or 5 thousand dollar slap on the hand is meaningless. I have fished Erie thousands of hours in the past 25 years, only in recent years have I seen what goes on now. Go to the border in early May between N. Bass and Middle Sister look at the miles and miles of nets watch as high as 14 commercial boats work, not small boats but vessels capable of salt, the damage that could be done in days could take years to fix. The people in that business are some of the best liars in the world. Those boats aren't owned by some poor man living in a trailer trying to support his family. They are owned by people like Olmstead frozen Foods. Corporations making big bucks the DNR and many others better wake up or we to will be like nearly every other fishery on Earth. We will have a fishery that used to be Great!!

[Tim FRick]

For one, there not just going to shut down the netters like turning off the faucet. They will buy them out and probable give them enough time to see it coming. So they won't be standing there with nothing in their pockets.
And two, have you ever seen how many nets are out there during their season. Sometimes you can't even drive your boat through them. And that's all along the coast.
I do agree with you that we have to look at the big picture of the lake (ecosytem). But I'm sure by getting rid of the netters that it can only do the lake ecosystem some good.
Good Luck!!
Tim FRick

[cisco]

Tommy Thompson, in defiance of the legislation, took Great Lakes trout and salmon stamp money to buy out eleven commercial fishers on Wis water of Lake Superior. They made out like bandits at the expense of sport fishermen who buy the stamps annually for specific purposes -- they are segregated funds. Thompson didn't care. The money was there, he used it. By the time a joint legislative committee held hearings to investigate, it was already done. Fait accompli. (Thompson style)

[bob oh]

Do as you please. Me I am going to join a state senator who plans to introduce legislation to "buy out" the Ohio netters. I am going to write letters and e-mail, make phone calls, picket or whatever else it takes to help him end commerical fishing in the Ohio waters of Lake Erie. Commerical netters have almost destroyed different species in the oceans and I am not willing to "wait" until they destroy Lake Erie. But, you are free to do, think and speak as you please - we all are.
Bob

[curt quesnell]

i havent seen the petition you looked at so i dont know the
particulars. but i was involved in the removal of gill nets
and commercial fishing on lake of the woods.

there were 14 familys involved in gill netting. all 14 families
are doing just fine, no body starved to death. those that werent
able to retire did something else. i never bought into that
grand heritage stuff. just cuz my dad did something that doesnt
give me any special "right" to do the same thing. it sounds like
there arent any "family" groups on lake erie anyway.

gill netting game fish is very bad. a good example of what can happen is red lake in minnesota. the lake was commercially fished for decades with no huge hurt on the lake. but then, greed set in and the nets (not overharvest by sportsmen and women) took all the walleyes in a few years.

the netting can devistate a large population of fish in a big body of water in no time and the commercial fisherman will do it.
the only way to stop it is to stop netting.

3 miles of net on a school of fish can catch 3 miles worth of
fish....150 miles of net can do the same thing to 150 miles
worth of fish. the nets are there, and there is no way to
release anything, once its stuck in the net its dead.

the history of canadians fishing lake erie commercially is not
good from what i have read. "dont trust the dog to watch your
lunch".

maybe a changing environment will do in lake erie anyway. maybe the water is too clear or too dirty, too polluted or not polluted
enough. but when the fish start to dissappear in a body of
water that is commercially fished stop commercial fishing right
away. that will effect the fewest number of people, and have the
smallest economic effect on tourism, and will more than likely
solve the problem quickly. other changes can be made later if
need be.

this is getting long so one final point. does anyone know of
any large body of water or great lake,with no commercial gill netting, that has had the population of walleye decimated by hook and line sportfishermen?

cmb, if you get your hands on that petition again, read it carefully, look for the words "gill net". if they are in there
you will do all sportfishermen and women everywhere a good deed
by signing it.

thank you from someone who has been down that road before.

curt quesnell

[Hawgeye]

Sorry Nettr, this long winter is getting to me. I have a hard time telling the difference between fact or frenzy any more. Guess I need to just spend a nice sunny day sitting in the boat with a rod in one hand and the landing net in the other. I will do a better job of determining between the two!

[rich]

if you can fish an ocean out (new foundland) whats going to happen to our little pond (lake erie) just remember the whey of the blue pike . dont let your dnr b/s you they now whats happening on the lake. we have to stop fishing during the spawn other states have and canada its only a few weeks long,we dont have many good spawns in a row.

[Tracy]

TO CMB

Just a few facts that you should consider:
1. The Canadian commercial fleet harvests over 70% of the total Walleye catch on Lake Erie annually. That is 30 or 40 boats taking over 70% of the fish.

2. They spread out over 36,000 kilometers of gill net on Lake Erie alone.

3. The reduction of harvest that is being imposed on these fisherman is during the spawn only.

4. The commercials have even added 3 Trawlers to their fleet. These trawlers target smelt for the most part, but they catch everything that swims in huge numbers. Read some of the posts on the LECBA webpage.

I agree with you on your basic point that coexistence with proper regulation is possible. The problem is that there has never been any regulation, and the commercial fleet on the Canadian side is totally incapable of self regulation. All that I can suggest to you is this: go out on Lake Erie in June, July or August on a boat and head for Canada anywhere west of Huron, but especially west of the Islands. See the carnage for yourself, because words alone can not explain it.

Tracy