What would you do?

[Butch]

I signed on the line to buy a new boat. (Tuesday 3/20)
I negotiated to the penny. I would have liked 2 pinpoint locators but, couldn't pull myself to shell out the $5-700.00 extra.Yesterday (Thur) the sales man calls me and says....Opps!
I put the Mercury rebate in the price. I will have to raise the price $562.50 but that won't change the price because you get the rebate check.

Now, I was very clear when I asked about the check coming to ME and not the dealer. And that it was not in the price. The Salesman is new and seems sincere But? He also said "You will need a Panther lift for your kicker, because the 15hp 4-stk will hit the 225 Opti." Now I can see that possibility but, I am picking up the check from the bank Monday and now I am suppose to tell them "Hey could you add $1,200.00 to that?"
I don't want to start arguing with the rep. but #$%%&^ what the heck is going on? I might not have bought the rig if it was $500.00 more. I thought it was a fair deal but now?
AND I do not want to go shopping again...

Any opinions or advice???

Thanx again my friends...
B2

P.S. Is the $500.00 + $150.00 (to install) a correct price on the Panther?

[EAGLE EYES]

You signed the purchase agreement with the $1200 excluded from the deal. The dealer needs to come up with something else because the mistake was theirs not yours. Crab the choker chain and pull a little harder, they can do better than that. If it costs the new rookie salesmen a few commission dollars too bad! That's how you learn. (From Mistakes)! Good luck! ;-)

[Butch]

The Panther was not on the list...But, after talking to my brother...He said "They should have known that you would need a Panther lift for the kicker!" I just do not want to pay the 150.00 extra to install it. I am already paying $500.00 for the rigging...

Butch

[RANGER]

Butch,

EAGLE EYES is absolutely correct - you have signed a sales agreement and the Dealer accepted it - DONE - period. You can threaten them with an attorney or Small Claims Court, but they are WRONG. And I wouldn't budge a single inch. This is business and the boat is YOURS equipped as spelled out on the agreement - P..E..R..I..O..D!!

"Here come 'Da Judge, here come 'Da Judge"

"Welcome to 'Judge Judy'" arrgh!!


RANGER


"KEEP YOUR LINES WET, YOUR POWDER DRY and THE BEER COLD"

[Butch]

O.K. new twist.
I signed this at the NW sportshow.
In the contract (Below my sig.) is
"This order is not valid unless signed and exepted by a sales Mgr or Officer of the Company" of coarse there is NO signature...
Is this still valid?
The salesman's sig is on top but not a Sales Mgr.
Of coarse the salesman stated "This is the final cost, it is out the door!"

I'm just pissed!~
B2

I cannot believe I might have to cough up another 1200.00
Good deal goes to Bad deal...

[sib]

maybe the best thing to do is walk away.

"go outside and play"
sib

[RANGER]

Butch,

What sib said is a good answer, too.

Personally? I'd take them to "Court". Most Cities have a Court appointed Lawyer Referral Service that is free (usually, or minor charge) for the initial session and it is usually an hour. I'd go see what I've got to bring to the game.

It's been a long time, but, if I remember my Tort Law (all 2 semesters of it) - YOU HAVE A CASE!!!! PERIOD..........That "agreement" at the Show was YOUR UNDERSTANDING and based on that you went through the hoops to get the loan and STUFF! And I believe it is binding BECAUSE "THEY" are in the business of selling boats. You are NOT in the business of buying them. "THEY" ARE THE "PROFESSIONALS" and "THEY" screwed up. They have the liability and YOU have a case - IMHO!


RANGER


"KEEP YOUR LINES WET, YOUR POWDER DRY and THE BEER COLD"

[BigBass]

I think the best thing to do is to post the dealers name on this post and then show him how to get to this post. Tell him WE are all waiting to here how he, and the dealership, handles this issue. It could mean a little more business coming his/her way or a little less business coming his way. It's up to him!

BigBass ------> I wish you all wet lines soon!

[BigBass]

I think the best thing to do is to post the dealers name on this post and then show him how to get to this post. Tell him WE are all waiting to here how he, and the dealership, handles this issue. It could mean a little more business coming his/her way or a little less business coming his way. It's up to him!

BigBass ------> I wish you all wet lines soon!

[ufda]

Tort law would only be applicable if you wanted to sue for fraud. Contract law is applicable here. (1 semester of each!!!) So, the question is whether or not there is a contract. Verbal agreements are not binding for the sale of personal property over some limit (as determined by your state) from what I remember and at my age I am lucky to remember my name. I would start by talking to the business owner and give him a chance to set this right. He has a longer range interest than a sales commission.
IMNSHO
ufda

[RANGER]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-23-01 AT 01:30PM (CST)[p]UFDA,

My apology, you're absolutely right, it is Contract Law and it was only 2 semesters of each. I said it was a LONG time ago. I'm OLD! However, based on Contract Law I still think Butch has a case for the reasons I've stated.

I agree that Butch should give the dealer a chance to make it right, first. But if that goes in the toilet...then?


RANGER


"KEEP YOUR LINES WET, YOUR POWDER DRY and THE BEER COLD"

[FJH1]

It's easy on a website to puff out your chest and say what you would do. It's another thing to actually DO IT. If you ultimately buy the rig through this dealer and in the process you take him to court forcing him to adhere to his contract how do you think he will treat you in the future if you need service or something? Personally I would negotiate something with the dealer (maybe propose splitting the cost or something). Mistakes happen, if you feel that the dealer is being honest with you and not trying to take advantage of you maybe you should try to negotiate this out. If you can't come to a resolution with the dealer that is fair in your mind, then walk away from the deal and buy from another dealer. I've always found it best not to burn your bridges. And as the saying goes, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Just my opinion.

Best Regards,

FJH

[joe]

Top

[Butch]

I am going to let the dealer have a chance.
But, "Bait & Switch" is how I feel.
I looked over my contract and there say's nothing
about the "Rebate" the sales guy refers to.
I just have to "Take his word?" take he "Meant"
to put it in there...

If I get *&^%-over I will post there name and everything else all over the Web... But, I will let them correct it.
It just seems so "Used-car" like when he calledup and said
oh by the way the price I wrote did not include....

"Oh. the car is $100.00 sign here....O.K. now let's talk about the engine price!".....That is what I hear.
Maybe I am paranoid but, This is my FIRST boat and $40K+ is
a chunk of change to me...

Thanx for your input!
I will keep everyone updated.
Butch

[EAGLE EYES]

Those darn pesky flies! :-) (hehehheh) Just kiddin FJH1, I agree with you totally! Let them try to make it right first!

[Dave in Mpls]

I agree with FJH1 - try and work it out with the dealer. If you can't, walk. As far as who signed the purchase agreement, it doesn't matter. The salesman signed on behalf of the dealer.

My question is this - I'm assuming the kicker hits the big motor when turned in one direction. How is a Panther Lift gonna remedy that? Isn't the lift just gonna move the motor back a few inches?

Regards

[John N]

That's a pretty big mistake. Can't hurt to run it past counsel, but as you've described it, sounds like you've made an offer that they haven't yet accepted, if by its terms it requires, as you've described, the signature of someone who hasn't yet signed it. And beware of "legal opinions" on this site or any others, including mine. Maybe there are some fast answers as to apparent authority of the salesman to sign, and so on, but obviously it isn't practical to spend much to chase this dog. And you want a good relationship with your dealer. This isn't the last time you'll see him. First lesson - with a transaction this size, deal with someone experienced, rather than a rookie salesman. Maybe the rebate deal was an honest mistake, but you clearly wanted to purchase a rig that was ready to go, and if I understand things correctly, a substantial piece of equipment that is necessary to make it go was left out of the deal, the lift. My sense of it is that I'd give the dealer a chance to make it right by his eating the rebate error (as I understand it, they'd agreed on the price even though the contract may not have been executed), and then second, I'd listen to what they have to say as to why the lift wasn't included, and what they'll do about it. Out of all of this, the whole thing doesn't pass the smell test. And the buying of the rig ought to be the easiest part. If they can't handle the selling of it very well, and it appears that you have a pretty good reason to think they haven't (subject to their explanation), then I'd sure be concerned about their servicing of it later. Think I'd be pretty inclined to take a walk and do business with someone else who gets it pretty close to right the first time. Unless they come up with a more persuasive reason than attempting to have you to bear the burden of their mistake on the rebate, and their mistake on failing to tell you what else you need to make the rig work. What else did they forget that you don't know about?? Good luck with your decision. John.

[THUMPER]

Good post FJH1. You can be correct by the law and still be on the downside. I dislike lawyers with a passion placing them in the bottom feeder category.

[River_eye]

Well, $40K is a chunk of change for anyone, unless you're Bill Gates or somthing.

My bet is that a sale such as this one is a relatively big deal to the dealer. They know you want the boat, and they want to sell you the boat. I'm sure that if you sit down with the salesman, and the sales manager, they'll be able to work somthing out for you. I'd expect them to at least split the difference, if not better.

You don't have to be mean, just straightforward. Say "Look, I wanted this boat at this price, and now that it's this price, I don't want it as much, and am considering walking." Then listen to what they have to say. And remember, don't accept the first offer. You have the upper hand because you know that they really really want to sell that boat, and if you act like you don't care if you shop elsewhere (whether you do or not), they'll be more flexible.

River eye

[Butch]

I do agree with most here.
I do not want to say F-you, you owe me this.
What will my future be like with them?

I want to Thank all that have replied! (and keep em coming!)
I will give them a chance and I think with a Sr. Mgr. as well.
I work in the securities industry and if a trader hits but instead of sell or the wrong amount we eat the cost.
whether it is $1-1,000,000.00.
But, I have heard boat dealers do not follow the same rules as even car dealers so?
I have not mentioned the dealer yet....And, I will not till
they truly cross said line.
However, what do you think to giving Bob at Yarcraft a call?
Does contacting the Manufacturer make a differnce?

I still am trying to stay positive (a little P.O'd earlier today).

Thank you again for your opinions and this Board for a place like this to share our High's and Low's!

B2

[GARY/MN]

About this dealer providing decent service after you fighting for what you think is right... What kind of service will this dealer provide if he pulls this kind crap when you buy the the boat?

It's easy for me to say but, if he doesn't swallow hard and say OK to the original deal WALK! I woulden't trust him to "honestly" service my boat. It's better to pay a couple extra bucks to a dealer with integrety. With boats & motors a good dealer is EVERYTHING!

Good luck!

[GORD]

Sounds like they are trying to change the deal. It's almost a "bait and switch" situation. Bait and switch is illegal. DO NOT GIVE THEM ANY MONEY UNTIL YOU ARE HAPPY WITH THE ENTIRE DEAL. They have your signature, but so what it wouldn't stand up in court because they changed the contract after the fact. They know that and would never attempt legal action, but they might try to bluff you. The money is the hammer. You have the hammer. Keep it. Get some legal advise about this before you get emotional and do something stupid.

[Jeremy]

Walk in on a Saturday and make a BIG scene about it in front of as many customers as you possibly can. There is no excuse for this, its THEIR mistake and they should pay for it. If the salesman's signature is on the paper and not the manager, take the salesman to court, sue him for the difference. All this sales manager signature bull is to curtail the bait and switch law

[delgue]

Salesmen is trying to flimflam,covering His A##. If Your spending $40k, and the dealer is reputable, the dealer wont mess around and will take care of business as should be done. One resource is Your bank, someone there-(not neccessarily your loan agent) knows how to deal with this situation, find and tap that resource, they are gonna make alot of money on this deal,and this arena is where they make their living, someone there is a "horse trader", and knows what to do.
--Words are easy, as previously posted, it appears You are ready to roll and meet them halfway, that is the easy way out, and in this case as You have stated, wrong. You need an advocate, but i wouldnt recommend some mealy mouthed lawyer in this case, this is too common and said mealy mouthed lawyer too expensive. Your bank, a relative that went through the Great Depression,or some "horse trader" that knows how to stand up to this will resolve this in short order.
good luck

[Brad/nd]

Butch.... Sorry to hear about your ordeal. I would give them a chance to work something out. I think the least they could do on the panther, is sell it to you at dealer cost (around $350) & eat the labor themselves for installing it. As far as the rebate, that is yours, stick with the original price. With a 40k boat sale, there is room for a $560 mistake, unfortunately, the salesman may have to settle for less of a commission.
Hope it works out!

Brad

[Butch]

After reading all the posts.
I will stick to my guns on this!
If they will walk on the sale then?
I have NO problem raising a stink...
That is what I might need to do.

Thank you again! (and the dealer cost on the Panther helps!)

Butch (Mpls MN)

Any Yarcraft Dealer's out there want to make a deal?

[Fish Hound]

I think that I would go see another dealer and see what kind of deal they would be willing to make on the same or comparable boat that would let you know what is going on. Let us know the outcome.
Hound

[Fish Hound]

I am going to do that.
It is a matter a convenience for distance.
I will try and see what the Dealer does???
He should not even bring up the $560.50 mistake...If he/she is a stand-up kind of dealer. But, I will be covering my assets!

I was thinking of printing these posts and taking them with me as
a little ammo.?

I will definitely keep everyone up to date with the process.
The one other dealer/owner I dealt with was very professional.
So, I would not have a problem going to him if I had to...

Thanx again for your reply's.
You can never have too many idea's or angles.

Butch

[Post # 27 was Butch not Fish Hound (My Bad) as aut]

Opps..
Although, I have been called a hound before...LOL

B2

[OLS]

I agree pretty much with every one else. Had similar situation ,
sign contract whole ball of wax, dealer went &picked up boat
fully knowing what we agreed on. Came back with wrong trailer
no brakes,swing away tongue,spare tire. He tried to talk me into taking it anyway. I just about bit you know first time boat but
finally stood my ground. So I got the correct trailer but to this
day I don't feel I get great service there. Will be buying next
boat elsewhere. Just wish I had a computer at that time to talk to other fishermen like here on this message board.

OLS have boat, will fish!

[JohnN]

Butch, my $0.02. Doesn't seem to me that you need "ammo." For my part, I wouldn't be very enthusiastic about doing business with anyone, in any business, that didn't want to do the right thing on their own, without me having to work to persuade them. This is ESPECIALLY true BEFORE buying a boat. After you've bought it, you've more or less bought into that dealer. If they don't feel like taking good care of you BEFORE you buy, without argument, i.e., without "ammo," I sure wouldn't be very enthusiastic about having to rely on them afterwards. Good luck in your decision. John.

[Kelly]

Butch, I am in a situation that is pretty well exactly the same as yours but with a few more twists. I am going in to straighten it out once and for all this week. I've already talked with a lawyer and I will go that route if need be. I am sticking to my guns all the way. I have all the paperwork, etc. in place so I'm definitely in the driver's seat here. Why should customers pay for mistakes by people who aren't competent enough to check and double check any and all sales that involve alot of money? Stick to your guns, you did not make the mistake! Good Luck.

[Tom (Mich)]

I've read all the debate about how to handle the dealer, but how about why you "need" a Panther? Your kicker is still going to be able to hit your big motor, Panther or not. Only a rod connecting the two would prevent this.

[Dakota angler]

Quit talking to the salesman, start talking to the owner, having gone through the same thing with a new camper last year, I found this was the fastest and easiest route to get satisfaction. Most owners do not want unhappy customers, who will talk to other potential customers and convincing them to spend their money elseware. An honest owner will make it right with you, if not make sure the owner knows he is losing a 40k sales. Remember "the customer is always right", do not pay for anything that was added later by the salesman.

[Butch]

I went to the dealer last night.
I had called the Owner earlier to be there.
He said he had a engagement, I told him to have a very competent person there in his stead.
Long story short.
1 1/2 hrs. of debate.
They picked up the cost on the Panther installation
And, they sucked up the cost of rebate!
Of course they offered "other" solutions.
But, I was a broken record...NO, NO, No!
This was the salesman's first boat sale. He did apoligize
10-20 times...

So Thanx to all for there support and help!
I picked up the check before I went to the dealer.
I have a boat!

B2

[Butch]

I went to the dealer last night.
I had called the Owner earlier to be there.
He said he had a engagement, I told him to have a very competent person there in his stead.
Long story short.
1 1/2 hrs. of debate.
They picked up the cost on the Panther installation
And, they sucked up the cost of rebate!
Of course they offered "other" solutions.
But, I was a broken record...NO, NO, No!
This was the salesman's first boat sale. He did apoligize
10-20 times...

So Thanx to all for there support and help!
I picked up the check before I went to the dealer.
I have a boat!

B2

[Dave in Mpls]

Glad to hear everything worked out, Butch!

I'm still not exactly sure how the Panther is gonna solve the problem of the kicker hitting the big motor, but as long as it works!

Regards

[RANGER]

Glad to hear it worked out! Now, go and enjoy your "Baby"!


RANGER


"KEEP YOUR LINES WET, YOUR POWDER DRY and THE BEER COLD"

[Butch]

Thanx Dave and Ranger!

The Panther is set back 12 inches...

Thanx you guy's again!
B2

[JohnN]

Hi Butch. Sounds like a real fair way to handle it. Anybody can feel good about doing business with a dealer that's fair. Enjoy the new rig. John.

[water_wolf]

GOOD FOR YOU BUTCH! Enjoy your new boat!
Rich

[Pierre]

What does this entire thread have to do with fishing? Nothing. Waste of my time and server's bandwidth.

[What?]

The gentleman is purchasing a BOAT (not a refrigerator or garden tractor). This thread is in the "General Discussion" area. I think it's a pertinent topic to the forum. If the dealer did not work with this gentleman maybe he would inform the rest of us who the dealer is so that we could possibly avoid the same situation.

[water_wolf]

Yet you take time out of your hectic day to reply to this thread. Lighten up the discussion is on general discussion board.

Rich

[Scott D]

Can someone explain how the Panther lift eliminated the problem of the motors hitting? I realize the panther set the motor back farther, but wouldn't it still hit then.

Also, a slightly different subject: I have been thinking about getting the new Yamaha high thrust 4-stroke kicker for my Triton with the built in electric tilt. Would I have a similar problem with the motors hitting? Maybe I should consider the Panther jack and a different kicker?

[JKA]

I am curious as well about Scott's question.