releasing Walleye

[Bulldog]

I fish lake Erie and am wondering at what depth a fish may be cought and still be safely returned unharmed. I heard of people catching deep water fish and "fizzing" them with a hyperdermick(sp) needle to release them unharmed. I don't wish to release fish that may die. can anyone offer me some advice?

[stewart]

I always feel really guilty about releasing fish from deeper than 28". A ballon brought up from that depth will pop, but of course fish are tougher than rubber ballons. Still... When I guide I sometimes feel like I have no choice, but I feel like a big hypocrite when I then claim to really care about the fishery.Sure the fish go down, but deer shot through the heart can run a while too.

I want to catch those deep piggies, so I justify it to myself in one way or another, but in my heart of hearts I really think it hurts an unacceptably high % of them.

[Chairman]

Fizzing fish is a very safe way to release fish. I have caught fish a week or more after a tournament with the red needle mark in them. If they were going to die they would have already done so by then. I fizz any fish that does not swim upright or swims near the surface of the livewell. The sooner you fizz them the quicker they begin to recover. You can see the fish rrelax when they are on the bottom of the livewell verses constantly swimming if they are on the top. This is a very high release success method.

[ETT]

Glad to try and help. Fizzing is a technique used to deflate the swim bladder of walleyes caught from deep water, and held for a period of time in a live well, then returned to the lake. If the fish can get itself back down to depth there is absoluely no reason to fizz it. Walleyes from as shallow as 15' can sometimes get inflated swim bladders.
BUT I HAVE RELEASED WALLEYES FROM AS DEEP AS 60' IMMEDIATELY AFTER CATCHING THEM WITHOUT FIZZING. To fizz these fish released immediately is very likely condeming them to death. Walleyes caught in a normal situation have plenty of strength to return to depth and to hold in their swim bladder. It is only those forced to stay shallow who eventually end up with an extended swim bladder. Fizzing is a tricky procedure and even experienced professionals with proper tools can and do sometimes inadvertantly inflict mortal wounds.
In short don't woory about fizzing a fish you just caught. They disappear in a blink of an eye.

[ezmarc]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-26-01 AT 05:58PM (CST)[p]Ett just answered my question below, I should have waited 2 more minutes. Thanks Ett.

Is it necessary to fizz them if you release them right away? It is my understanding you only fizz them if putting them in the livewell for possible release later. ie: tournament fishing or culling.

[stewart]

I really do hope your right, but Gord Pyzer's words in In-Fisherman still haunt me...With no solid evidence either way I guess each individual has to decide what makes sense.

I don't like to think that any of the fish that I realease die, but some must. My gut tells me that more deeper caught fish die than shallow caught fish. Whether that difference is significant or not is the issue at hand I suppose.

[stewart]

opps, the next post was suppossed to be under Chaiman's, but I was slow and there were two responses while I was typing. Sorry 'bout that folks.

[Bulldog]

OK .. no fizzing if released right away. is there any type of guidline depth that is too much to release fish safely for the fish? if one was tournament fishing and holding fish in his or her livewell what is the proper way to fizz?

[rvvrrat]

The only source of published information about the proper relase of walleyes I know of is at this URL: http://www.state.sd.us/gfp/Fishing/Info/Catchrelease.htm.

EVERYONE should read it at sometime because it answers a lot of questions and removes the voodoo and wives tales that circulate on this subject.

If there are other published or documented sources on this subject please share them with us.

[Booger]

What is the proper way to fizz a walleye?
Thanks

[Juls_WI]

That url doesn't tell how to fizz a fish. It just says "inserting a needle into the side of a fish"...geez, that will get you no where, and will definately kill the fish.

I was taught by an experienced fizzer and the following is how I was taught:

From the anus of the fish, count two scales over and 5 scales up from either side. "Up" meaning towards the head of the fish.

Insert a needle, such as one used for spinal taps, and keep it at a 45 degree angle towards the bellyline of the fish. Puncture the outer skin and slowly move it inward until you feel a slight resistance. This resistance is the swim bladder. Move the needle in until the swim bladder is pierced. Hold the fish on it's back, under water (in the livewell), until all the air is released. You will be able to tell when the air is released when the needle stop letting bubbles out. Do not press on the stomach of the fish to make it let the air out faster, because this can cause harm to the fish. Make sure not to go past the swim bladder when your inserting the needle, because you will end up puncturing the liver or kidney. I forget. I'm not sure which organ is behind the swim bladder, but it is one of those two. You will know if you went to far, if you find blood on the needle when you pull it out. It will also be noticable that you went to far when you don't see any bubble coming out of the needle.
It is quite simple once you get the hang of it. Practice on fish you plan on eating and not releasing so you can get the experience before you need to use it.

Good luck, and good fishing!

Juls

[rvvrrat]

Juls,

I agree, it is not a compendium on fizzing. It does however point out explicitly that fish brought from deep water should be played as quickly as possible and returned to the water ASAP. This was one of the original questions. The wives tale the article dispenses with is that of slowly playing fish from deep water and increased survival rate. It also does not list fizzing as one of the most important factors for increased survival.

Thanks for the explanation on fizzing. I am going to try it... as soon as I find my supply of spinal tap needles ;-)

Pete

[Eyelander]

Only a complete idiot would do this sort of thing.
Don't stick needles in your fish what is the matter with you guys.
STOP KILLING FISH!!!

The only reason I say this is because we held a tournament on one of our lakes and the next day I went up and I must've found at least 20 or so walleyes floating dead near the spillway
over half had a distinct red mark made by a needle. This year anglers are being told not to fizz the fish or they will be disqualified . Even if these fish are brought up from depths over 30 ft. the chances are, upon release they will find there way and live. This is a cryin shame.

[Juls_WI]

>Only a complete idiot would do
>this sort of thing.
>Don't stick needles in your fish
>what is the matter with
>you guys.
>STOP KILLING FISH!!!

I'm pretty sure a grown up can make his or her point without the name calling. Am I right?
>
>The only reason I say this
>is because we held a
>tournament on one of our
>lakes and the next day
>I went up and I
>must've found at least 20
>or so walleyes floating dead
>near the spillway
>over half had a distinct red
>mark made by a needle.
>This year anglers are being
>told not to fizz the
>fish or they will be
>disqualified . Even if these
>fish are brought up from
>depths over 30 ft.
>the chances are, upon
>release they will find there
>way and live. This is
>a cryin shame.

More than likely, these fish you found, were fish that weren't fizzed properly. To put a rule like that in place is what I call a cryin' shame. A fish that has been floating belly up in a livewell all day is not going to have a CHANCE to find it's way back.

Call me all the names you want, but I have seen what happens when a fish is fizzed properly, and when one is not. When it's not, your right, it's a cryin' shame. Learn to do it right, and you will be successful in a releasing a fish that has a "chance".

Juls

[Bulldog]

Outside of entering a tournament I will let the fish go as soon a s possible to give it the best chance of survival. i am still confuse as to how deep is too deep and i think the "needle at a 45 degree angle" part needs to be clarified. i got a little confused as to how to handle the needle and although i will not practice fizzing untill i in a huge tournament i think it should be clarified for those readers who will use this technique. We all just want to do whats best for our beloved Walleye.

[Eyelander]

>Outside of entering a tournament I
>will let the fish go
>as soon a s possible
>to give it the best
>chance of survival. i am
>still confuse as to how
>deep is too deep and
>i think the "needle at
>a 45 degree angle" part
>needs to be clarified. i
>got a little confused as
>to how to handle the
>needle and although i will
>not practice fizzing untill
>i in a huge tournament
>i think it should be
>clarified for those readers who
>will use this technique.
>We all just want to
>do whats best for our
>beloved Walleye.

My sediments exactly Thank You Bulldog.
As for the name calling I usually don't get mad when called names unless I I am in the wrong and not willing to admit it.
My uncle is a marine biologist and he says there is no reason for this procedure! I listen to what a proffesional has to say this allows me to make a smart decision ! I don't believe in it !!
You may think I am the idiot but we are entitled to our opinions.
FTW

[Juls_WI]

Sorry Bulldog, but without being able to draw a diagram on this message board, I can't really clarify it any better. Wish I could. It would have to be shown to you in person.

Eyelander, it was only an observation that the name calling was unneccessary. I don't get mad when called I'm called names and I don't beleive I'm in the wrong here. By the way, my Uncle was a Professor of Marine Biology at the University of Michigan too.

I am only going on what I have seen for myself, while on the water. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I am the last one to say they can't have one. I'm going to agree to disagree with you on this one. Fair enough?

Juls

[stewart]

There is one question on fizzing I have asked before, but never got an answer to. I would appreciate any info since I'm here to learn.What happens to the air bladder after it has been fizzed? Does it continue to function normally in the long run? I'm sure a walleye could go without it a while, but losing it would probably make it have to expend too much energy to survive.

After reading the info on the other link it seems that deep fishing has a very high impact. Maybe on Erie it doesn't matter so much, but perhaps smaller bodies of water could suffer if large numbers of people targetted deep walleyes. It's hard enough to teach people to treat the fish gently, not hold it out of the water too long, and so on without throwing fizzing in the mix.

[Eyecon]

Fizzing works,I have saved many fish both in and out of tournaments by doing so.This must be done so the fish can right it self and return to the bottom.If your seeing dead fish after a tournament,it's because those fish have been pounded to death in the livewell,not to mention the warm surface water thats pumped in on them for hours!Fizzing should however only be done by someone who knows what there doing(don't just start poking holes in fish if you don't know what your doing).You can buy large gauge needles say(16)at Fleet Farm in the livestock dept.You get a real good feeling inside when that fish swims away and you know you've saved its life.In this day and age of slot limits when you don't have a choice but to throw back fish, it's your respondsibility to do everything in your power to give that fish a chance to survive.Please learn how.

[Bulldog]

ok thank you though. I do now at least have a better idea of the subject for your help.

[Bulldog]

Some of us could benefit (the Walleye especially) from some professional instruction on this matter. Could either of you with the Biologests in the family ask them if they know of someone (phd or somethng) who could help teach us in our mission to protect the Walleye? I'm gonna have nightmares now of people going out on the Lake and stabbing all Walleye with a bigg ##### needle.:(
Thanks,
bulldog
Also theres that mystery depth still unnanswered.

[Eyelander]

Juls I can understand where you are coming from.
I guess I need to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable. Like bulldog said we all just want what's best for our beloved walleyes.

[W'eyes Guy]

I too can attest to this procedure; during many of our tournaments, my partner and I often volunteer to help release fish after weigh-in. Many times we have successfully "fizzed" fish that otherwise may have perished. We usually make several trips back to the release site and have never returned to find fish floating "with tell-tale red dots". So next tournament you are in, or even just at, ask the tournament director to have someone demonstrate the correct technique. I'm sure they would gladly do so. See ya at the next tourney.

[Chatman]

Hey Gang,

If I can interject....

Check the chat schedule here on Walleye Cenrtral. We have a biologist with the Ohio Sea Grant (Fred Snyder) for an upcoming chat. Nice place to ask this very topic.

Have fun......R

[curt quesnell]

taking fish out of deep water in the summer time puts a hurt
on em. period. but then fishing isnt fun time for the fish,
its not sport for them.

the truth is some fish die with catch and release, more die
when taken from deep water in the summer.

when you catch the fish you want out of deep water quit fishing
for them. find something else to do. the tournement deal is
different most pros know how to do all they can do to try
to save the fish. and pros quit when they get the tournement limit. most joe (or josephine) anglers, like me, will
do more damage than good trying something like fizzing without
instruction.

catch and release all day in ten feet of water with a jig and
you wont kill many fish.

in the summer for pro events i like the 100 percent harvest
that way you dont waste even one fish. but thats just me.

have fun fishing, and when you play catch and release be careful
when you handle the fish and try to stay away from high mortality
situations.

curt quesnell

[bio]

that feeling is of watching the fish swim away. Unless you were to take the time and considerable effort to watch and follow that fish for the week or so after release you CAN NOT STATE THAT YOU SAVED ITS LIFE. mortality resulting from a wound like that may take some time to occur.

this practice does not make sense! it has NOT BEEN PROVEN efective, and has the risk of injuring or killing more fish than it "saves"

if you don't plan on keeping fish from deeper water don't fish there! (now thats a revolutionary concept) or, at least practice selective harvest releasing those that have a reasonable chance at survival.

[fishless]

Interesting topic. In the early days of the pwt (I was on the board of directors) when the subject of fizzing first surfaced (pardon the pun)many anglers (especially my employers) embraced it whole-heartedly. Being a skeptic, and wanting to see for my self, I held both fizzed and unfizzed fish in captivity under optimum conditions for observation. Also held tourney fish caught in shallow water from the same event. The bottom line is that any fish that was stressed for any of the reasons mentioned in this string did poorly. They don't seem to like riding around in live wells (who named them LIVE wells anyway?)
One also has to ask the question: The swim bladder is designed to be air tight for a reason. Poke a hole in it and you've modified the design and possibley give the fish a new set of problems...
A method I've used very successfully on fish with non vented bladders is to attach a 16oz trolling sinker with a soft rubber clip to the pectoral fins which helps get the fish back very quickly to a pressure where equilibrium is reestablihed. Give the rod a quick jerk and mr. fish is back on his way, right side up and probably craving an alkaselser. I think it's best to be very quick about it, the longer you hold them the more chance of rupturing tissue.

[Hans]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-30-01 AT 09:39AM (CST)[p]Fizzing fish just lets them swim out of sight before they die, as opposed to going ****up right alongside your boat.

Hans

[WAeyes]

If someone told me to fizz a walleye, I might shake it up like a can of Coke before I stuck a needle into its swim bladder. I think Fishless is right on the money. If you put a hole in the swim bladder, the fish may immediately swim away but common sense tells me that you have just delayed its death. If it was meant to have a hole in it, it would come with one. If these deep water fish are the only fish you can catch, then maybe we should find a new hobby until the fish move into a shallower environment and can be caught and released without harm. These stories of huge walleyes floating dead on the surface from catching out of too deep of water is no better than the meat hunters taking home more than their limit.

[Eyelander]

Hey Juls! Now here we have another educated view on how destructive poking holes in your fish can be. I have been dead set against this procedure the first time I saw the horrifying aftermath. I agree with the idea that why don't you let these deep eyes alone and go for the shallow ones. Bulldog I have nightmares also of people jabbing needles into these fish.
As I said before in an earlier reply "DON'T STICK NEEDLES IN THE FISH". PLEASE Thankyou

Fish
The
World

[Bob]

If you want proof of how well Walleye's do in "live wells" for hours on end, just look at what happened at Fort Peck last year. That PWT tourney had over 90% mortality. The moral, get the fish back into the water as quickly as possible or take him home and eat him. None of this delayed release stuff.

[mrb]

Where did all this "fizzing" idea come from anyway? Seems to me that whether you Fizz him or Fry him the end result is the same.

[JonM]

Ultimately, I believe it comes down to ethics unless we're talking big money tournament fishing. If I was slamming Walleyes in 38ft of water and the fish I tried to release was rolling over, I wouldn't keep fishing there unless I was confident that they 2lb fish and I was going to keep them anyway.

The Tournaments are going to have to come up with a completely re-designed weigh-in process. The Fort Peck situation is going to be a PR nightmare for them even if a lot of fisherpeople would be keeping/killing these fish anyway. That's not good enough in my book, these tournament guy's should be leading the way for better system instead of rationalizing what happened at Fort Peck.

The DNR or Game and Fish could definitely do some research on this (fizzing or releasing immediately) to help us all out on what we can do to help released fish survive!

[curt quesnell]

eyelander,

if my friend hans talking about t*ts is one of your experts
im really wondering about your marine biologist.

tiny punctures seal themselves in seconds and heal from there
on living things. if you get a shot at the doctors office you
are not a goner.

the fizzed fish may swim off and die. but they dont die because
of the poke. at least a fizzed fish will not die because he cannot swim upright, or because he is stuck on the surface.

you, like some others, are reading more into this fizzing than
there is. the point of view held by hans is at least a valid one
...a fish hauled out of deep water is in trouble no matter what
you do to it. that is an excellent topic to discuss.

but you, get everything all bungled up and come up with "making
a tiny poke hole in a fishes air bladder kills it. its just too much for me to let slide on this very long saturday....


curt quesnell

[curt quesnell]

good post Jon M.

so far, the high mortality in fishin contests comes from
deep water and hot weather. now that the problem is in focus
it is being worked on.

live wells are being re-invented, tournements are sometimes limited as to the times of year they can be held. fizzing is
being done in some areas to relieve the pressure on the inside
of the fish so they can swim upright.

its not just contest fishermen (and women) killing fish on
ft peck last year. it was everyone out fishing in the deep
water. at least the contest fish werent wasted like the ones
sport fishermen (and women) caught and tried to release.

it is being worked on. and good sportspeople like you are part
of a positive side to a negative kind of problem. we are demanding a change for the better and i believe it will come.

have a great weekend

curt quesnell

[Goner]

WELL SAID CURT !!!!!!!

[henckel]

As much as some fishermen seem to love fizzing, these biologists and states aren't sold on it. To them, it appears that it's simply a vehicle to delayed mortality -- fish dying later. That's the view from Ohio, to Wisconsin, to South Dakota, to Utah. Don't kill the messenger, all you fish-fizzers out there, it's what THEY have to say about it. I put in the websites, if you want to check it out for yourself. -- mark

####################

The first two are from the report of the 2000 meeting of the American Fisheries Society's Walleye Technical Committee:
To view all their proceedings -- which centered on walleye tournaments -- go to: http://ws3.coopfish.siu.edu/walleye_tech/sum2000mtg.htm
A couple of their reports dealt directly with fizzing. They are (and I quote via cut-and-paste):

6. Walleye tournaments in Wisconsin. Kendall Kamke, Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources, KamkeK@dnr.state.wi.us

To assess delayed mortality for tournament caught walleye on the Winnebago system, two groups of tournament fish were held for 4-5 days after two tournaments, as well as a control group. One group of tournament fish was “fizzed” while the other was not. Control group fish were captured using electrofishing gear the day following the tournaments. Fish were held in live cages in the lake for one tournament and in DNR stocking trucks for the second tournament. During the 1st 48 hours for the cage-held fish, the “not fizzed” group had better survival than the “fizzed” group (78 vs. 24%). The control group had 96% survival for this same time period. However, past this columnaris developed in all three groups. By day 5, all but 1 fish from each of the two tournament groups was dead, and the control fish had suffered 44% mortality. Algae accumulation on the webbing of the cages was also a problem. The results from the stocking truck held fish were different. After 48 hours, both tournament caught groups had only 6% mortality, but the control group had suffered over 44% mortality. Past 48 hours, columnaris again developed and was a problem. Final mortality after 4 days for truck held fish was 18% for “not fizzed”, 39% for “fizzed”, and 56% for control. The experiment will be repeated again next year with changes in the number of fish held, different procedures, and better equipment to see if more reliable results can be obtained.

Kamke added later in his report that:
Ø Sixty percent of the states responding did not advocate gas bladder deflation or “fizzing”

###################
Also:
7. An Overview of Walleye Tournaments in Ohio. Debra Walters, Ohio Division of Wildlife, debra.walters@dnr.state.oh.us

The Division of Wildlife conducted several years of fizzing experiments on Lake Erie tournament caught walleye (Project Leader: Dave Insley, Castalia State Fish Farm, 7018 Homegardner Road, Castalia, OH 44824, (419)684-7499, casfh@nwonline.net). During the calm, 1991 walleye tournament, a total of 1,597 walleye were fizzed with 1 % mortality prior to release 20 hours later. A sample of 100 fish were held for six months at the Put-In-Bay Fish Hatchery with only three mortalities. In 1992, a fizzed versus non-fizzed experiment was conducted each day of the three day tournament. Each day two groups of 30 walleye (N=180) were randomly selected; one group was fizzed and the other group not fizzed (control). The fish were held in the hatchery for 14 days. All three groups of non-fizzed fish exhibited 100% mortality within nine days. The three groups of fizzed walleye exhibited an overall survival of 47%. Autopsies of dead fish revealed high incidence of fish spine puncture wounds through the abdominal cavity assumed to be due to poor livewell conditions due to rough lake conditions (3 to 6 foot waves). Non-experimental fish released immediately after each tournament day exhibited very high mortality. In 1993, a total of 2,061 walleye were fizzed and held for 24 hours. Immediate mortality was low, however, three weeks after the tournament large numbers of fish began dying at the release site. Again, lake conditions were very poor for the duration of the tournament. In summary, Ohio does not recommend fizzing walleye after a tournament because; 1) in most years Lake Erie is very rough during the tournament, therefore, livewell conditions are poor, 2) very time consuming and requires extra manpower, and 3) fish mortality is too high.

#############################

South Dakota Game, Fish and Parks on fizzing:

(http://thunder.state.sd.us/gfp/fishing/Info/FAQ.htm#fizzing):

Q. Does letting gas out of the gas bladder with a needle, or "fizzing" a fish, improve a fish’s chances of surviving?

A fish that is unable to remain upright in the water because it is severely stressed and/or has an over-inflated gas bladder, stands a poor chance of surviving, if released. "Fizzing" is a process where gas is released from the gas bladder of a fish by inserting a needle in the side of the fish and puncturing the gas bladder. While helping a fish regain it’s ability to return to the bottom of the lake, many fish that are "fizzed" end up dying within a few days of release, from the stress of being caught and handled. There is also the likelihood that when you insert the needle into the side of a fish you will damage internal organs such as the kidney or intestines. Just because a fish swims towards the bottom doesn’t mean it will survive.

Q. Is there any problem in releasing fish caught from deep water? What's deep water?

A. Generally, fish caught from depths 30 feet or greater should be considered as coming from deep water. From this depth, as fish are brought to the surface, the gases in their air bladder begin to expand placing pressure on their internal organs. The air bladder in some fish will be so expanded that it will cause their internal organs to extend out of the mouth. These fish are unable to swim beneath the surface. While other fish you may release after catching them from this depth appear to be O.K., often the internal damage caused to their other organs will take several hours or days to kill them.


Q. If there are so many fish dying from being released from livewells or deep water, why don't I see that many?

A. Lets use Lake Oahe as an example. In 1997 anglers reported releasing over 676,000 walleye during the period April through October. Lets assume that 50% died within a couple of days of being released or 338,000 walleye. That's an average of about 1850 per day. Then when you consider that the South Dakota portion of Lake Oahe is about one walleye for every 215,000 acres, that works out to about one walleye for every 116 acres. Then when we factor in that not all walleye that die float to the surface or for those that do, many are quickly removed by other predators or washed ashore. Its easy to see that we can have a fairly serious release mortality without actually seeing many dead fish on the surface of the water.

############################

From the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources:
http://www.sportsmansdream.com/utahf.htm

When fishing deep water (deeper than 30 feet) most fish caught cannot be released with any assurance that they will survive. Bringing fish up quickly causes blood chemistry changes as well as an expansion of the air bladder to many times its normal size, often causing it to protrude out of the fish s mouth. Keeping the fish in the water and quickly releasing it so it can get back down to deeper water helps some. Puncturing the swim bladder with a needle ( fizzing ) does not improve survival. Some fish like lake trout can burp off the gases from the swim bladder when pulled up slowly. Most fish do not have this capability.

[curt quesnell]

wow henkel nice job.

this is stuff all fisherpeople should try and absorb. i am
glad there is some real research and that it is continuing.


curt quesnell

[henckel]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-31-01 AT 08:36PM (CST)[p]Curt --

Thanks for the kind words. I agree that it's good that the fisheries folks are looking into it. They're the people with the knowledge and resources to study things like this. The rest of us -- amateurs or pros -- are just fishermen.

Fizzing is a difficult issue. We'd all like to think that every fish we release survives to be caught again. That simply doesn't happen -- even when you see them swim away. Factors like deep water, high water temperatures, length of time in the livewell, wind and waves, how they're hooked and how they're handled all play a role in whether or not released fish will survive. And fisheries biologists will be the first ones to tell you that measuring delayed mortality is extremely difficult. No one is around to see them die.

It's not just a walleye issue either. I see the same things happen with trout fishermen here in Montana when water levels get low and water temperatures get high. Even when they work at keeping fish alive and releasing fish properly, they simply can handle the stress. You see the dead fish in the bottoms of pools later, after the fishermen have gone home.

As you said, what we need is more hard biology to help us do the best we can for the resource under all conditions. -- mark

[Bill]

What Juls said is correct. We have fizzed many walleyes at the Lake Pepin Walleye Classic put on by Walleye Searchers of Minnesota while the DNR watched and they remarked on how well it was being done [ the same way Juls descibed]. The DNR is not allowing it to be done much right now as too many people have been seen doing it wrong. I have seen alot of walleyes released even after being in live wells all day during rough water conditions by being fizzed. They went back to the water looking better than they did coming to the weight scales. Sure some will die anytime a caught fish is released back into the water, BUT fish not released and kept will all die. I'm for whatever will help them to live so both you and I can catch them again. Thanks, Bill

[Nofish]

Wow!

Glad to see a report done by fisheries people that also included the fact that seemingly healthy fish still die in confinement pens.

That has been a bur in my side for over a decade.

While fizzing may actually help some fish and not others is important to see. And, don't try this at home, unless you are properly taught by fisheries people. I do know how to fizz, and was taught how by DNR staff at a tournament, but have not fizzed a fish in over 8 years.

It is also important to weigh the benefit to the loss associated with delayed mortality. However, as I have seen it, there is really no good way to make up a delayed mortality model as healthy fish still die in pens. Tracked fish? That may be an answer.

Bottom line? From all we read here and all I have read and learned from fisheries people and reading their publications, the jury is still out.

Let's hope for difinative methods and numbers in the future. I still find it hard to believe the percentages of released fish that are supposed to be dying. It would be like taking the angler recruitment rates and adding upwards of 40%. No fishery could then continue to support a population of fish.

Looking for the truth.....(as are you)......R

[Marken]

Juls wrote "That url doesn't tell how to fizz a fish. It just says "inserting a needle into the side of a fish"...geez, that will get you no where, and will definately kill the fish.

I was taught by an experienced fizzer and the following is how I was taught:"

How many fisherman who fiz fish were taught by an experienced fizzer? I would think alot of them do just stick a needle in the side of a fish and hope for the best. And that surely is not helping a released fish.
The catch phrase it "doing it properly."

[Eyelander]

I never said "the tiny poke hole" as you refered to it is what is killing these fish maybe you should read the rest of the replys. You will see that you are sadley mistaken!!!!

[Bob]

Nice post Mark.I agree.And it should not be forgotten that if you stick a fish in a "live well" to bounce around for hours it's really not going to matter if it's fizzed or not. Either way it's dead. Tournament organizers need to keep this in mind.

[WAeyes]

Tracked fish? Why not, they can track all sorts of animals in the wild to learn more about them. There has got to be some genius out there who could design something that could be clipped on a fish to give off a radio signal. Why not???? Good idea Nofish!

[curt quesnell]

your quote was "the only thing this poking around will result in
is dead fish".

but i did go back and re-read both threads on the topic start
to finish. it is, for the most part a good discussion. i am
glad to see reports on the subject, hopefully future reports
will have more clear results.

fizzing or not, there seems to be a mortality problem with catch and release fishing in deep water in hot weather. especially
when the fish are held in live wells. i know that work is
being done to make better live wells. maybe some great new
way to handle these fish will come along soon, until then,
we need to be doing what we can to make sure as many "catch
and release" fish survive as possible.

have a good sunday eyelander

curt quesnell

[Nofish]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-01-01 AT 08:03AM (CST)[p]Hey Bob & Mark,

I also agree about the fish bouncing around in a live well. However, even in the lower end boats these days, the live wells are more than adequate to keep fish alive for hours.

It is the anglers that must take more care of their passengers that will make the biggest difference. Personally, I have had only one fish expire in the live well in my last 2 boats.

I, and many others, leave with plenty of time to make sure the fish are not treated worse than if you put 'em in a paint shaker.

This also goes back to what I thought while reading the thread about speed, and rude people.

Personally, I wouldn't care if an angler had 3, 300 hp motors on the back of a 17 foot boat. If he/she used common sense. However, on paper all laws, rules and plans work flawlessly. It is when you ad people to the mix........::o

If an angler wanted to take a little extra time to play deep fish and not horse them to the top, take a litle longer to come in and provide a soft ride, and be courteous and avoid other boats while at speed, well, we'd have a utopian angling society.

Ah well, at least I can do my part..............R ;-)

[fish fry]

This sounds like a strong case for catch and keep! :-)

Saw the stats on the number of walleyes released on L. Oahe. By the sounds of their current situation with the abundance of walleyes and lack of smelt up there they should have boxed those fish.

Having given about a zillion shots to hogs, cattle, and dogs I am concerned with the fact that not one thing was mentioned about the sanitation of the needles (unless I missed it). What a great way to internally infect a fish regardless of whether the fizzing was done correctly or not.