lead weight ban in Canada

[moosehead]

The sporting community in Canada is being illogical by not supporting the proposed ban on some lead fishing products.Common sense dictates that less lead in the environment is desirable, after all we banned lead in gasoline so why the fuss about weights and jigs?Seems to me sportsmen are just crying over the gun registry and hate the liberals in Ottawa.A good policy is a good policy no matter who introduces it.
Get over it and use alternatives.

[jigman 2003]

Trolling, trolling, trolling.......

[bigfish1965]

Yeah...nice troll. But here are the facts..
Lead in freshwater does not dissolve..it has no plumbosolvency in freshwater...zero.
Lead Oxides however are quite dangerous and can cause a myriad of illnesses.Lead Oxides occur from lead based paints,leaded gasoline,etc.
The main rationale for the lead ban is the adverse affects on loons. The study that was cited in teh Occasional Paper used to justify the porposed ban stated that loons injesting lead jigs died. Of course they did. They will die no matter what the jig is made of. Don't believe me? Eat a tungsten jig and see how you fair with it.
Now, if I at 200 pounds cannot unlodge a snagged jig, how is this loon going to dive down and do it??
The ban on lead shot in the shallow waters of migratory waterfowl made sense and there was little debate of the effects since small lead shot was quite prevalent given that it doesn't decay in water. Really there was no winning argument against banning lead shot in those areas.

[walleyeduran]

Bigfish 1965, thank you for educating Moosehead on lead jigs disolving in water. If you have read the unbiased studies on lead (jig) poisoning in Loons, everyone would wonder what we are trying to save by banning them.

[Whit]

maybe the canadians could teach the cormorants to eat them.

[top water]

here go the tree huggers again trying to ban fishing.invade canada

[phishfearme]

bigfish - a good summary - with one addition. i believe the main concern for loons is eating a fish that has either a lead jig in it's gut or a lead jig in the fishes mouth that remained when the line broke. the loon's digestion whould then partially dissolve the lead portion of the jig (and totally dissolve the steel hook) and possibly give the loon lead poisoning. getting snagged jigs off the lake bottom or worrying about any type of jig (tungsten? i thought zinc is the only thing on the market) injuring the loon are not really concerns.

phish

[bigfish1965]

Then one would wonder if a loon could take a fish capable of breaking line. And the argument remains..if that jig was made of any material, the loon would surely perish anyway. Bismuth is the proported replacement for lead and has toxic properties all its own.One thing that has been established as true is that the loon population is very stable. Several thousand loons died on Lake Erie last year from botulism poisoning. Fix that problem before anything else.

[moosehead]

If lead is not a problem according to some of you, then why do major north american cities add chemicals to the water supply to coat lead pipes in older areas of cities?Like I said the first time, this is a good policy but some of you have a problem with the liberals and environmental groups supporting the ban.Too bad because Harper will never win anyway.

[phishfearme]

in my experience, breaking off on a fish has much more to do with my inattentiveness to my line being frayed or weakened by fatigue or hitting the tooth of even a small pike (or walleye) wrong than by the size of the fish. it's a real problem - how big the problem is is certainly up for debate. - phish

[walleyeduran]

Moosehead, if you can not picture the difference between lead pipes transporting your drinking water and a few hundred/thousand jigs lost in a body of water that has approximately 4 trillion gals of water. (this figure was calc. from a 25,000 acre body of water with a average depth of 20 feet). Yes, I know that you are going to say that there are a lot of lakes smaller then my example, but most of these bodies of water would not have hundereds of jigs lost in them.

Phishfearme, so you are telling me that a loon is going to eat a 24" (avg. toothy critter size) northern with possibley your "LEAD" jig in its mouth because your line happened to break off on the tooth off this fish. [LOON EATING 24 INCH NORTHERN, THIS IS ONE MEAN LOON]

84 days to Canada Bigfish 1965.

[moosehead]

I am trying to understand all the fuss about the ban by the fishing community. Are you saying that lake winnipeg could never be poisoned by anything because of its size?Being a cottager on that lake, I can tell you different.Oh oh, think I just lost my own argument, it's being polluted by everything.

[bigfish1965]

Lead is inert in fresh water but is slightly solvent in water with chlorine. Therein lies the difference. The amount of lead in the Great Lakes is far below the standard and is in fact usually undetectable.The only exception is the areas around industrial outflows.There is far more sinkers on the bottom of the Great Lakes than anywhere else, yet it is not a problem.

[fishncamp]

The proposed lead ban applies to the sale,manufacture and importation but not possesion.The ban is a useless illconceived piece of junk that is unenforcable and a waste of time and money.Until bismuth,zinc and tungsten jigs and lures are made more affordable there will always be anglers using lead.The scientific connection between fishing lures and loon mortality is marginal at best.Stock up on jigs...

[Trailerguy]

[font color=green size=3][b]You seem to be forgetting that lead is a natural compound easily discovered. The "Mines of Spain" area overlooks the Missisippi River in eastern Iowa. The mines were a source of lead to make ammunition and trade goods in the early settlers days and still exists today. The lead ore was so rich it was easily melted down, and only a stones throw from the river. The lead is not a serious problem in the river water nor has it harmed the local envirment. It's part of the terrain just like granite, exists in Ontario, if you eat too much granite it will kill you too. :) But making sinkers from granite would be a little foolish, eh.

[moosehead]

Well,I see your points so maybe this is an overrated excercise by the feds afterall.I do wonder why they are rushing this through and giving the public,wildlife groups and fishing supplies industry so little time to react.Good responses from all you guys.

[Whit]

environmentalists have never let the truth get in the way of a good "cause".

[environment]

agree totally, move on world

[oltim]

I have read what I believe to be the same Canadian study that seem to refer to and talk about and I summarize what I found.

1. Approx. 20 to 25% of the loons studied died from what they categorize as lead poisoning. However the report states quite clearly that they have no idea how many loons are being killed this way and that they believe that it would be very expensive to determine that value.
2. Lead is already prohibited in all Canadian National parks and Wild Life Refuges and a seperate(additional) fishing license is required for these waters.
3. Several USA states have banned the use of lead jigs/weights of less than 1 or 0.5 ounces in fresh waters.
4. Some foreign countries have similiar bans.
5. Prohibiting the use of lead by fishermen might prevent the loss of loons by poisoning but not drowning since ingestion of any certain weight could result in drowning or trauma.
6.Loss of loons from entanglement will remain unchanged since entanglement has nothing to do with lead.
7. Canada, the highly liberal/socialist place, will continue to reduce or prohibit the use of lead by fishermen in fresh waters. However, their ability to enforce the new regulations is highly questionable. Therefore, relax and enjoy the trip. Their studies state that lead substitutes will cost the average fishermen $2.00 a year.

[bigfish1965]

Well other than the fact that oltim has absolutely no idea what socialism is, he raises another interesting error in the stats. Last year over 3,000 loons died from botulism on Lake Erie during the migration. Yet, it is widely held that this will not have an impact on the loon population. Yet the 12 or so deaths each year attributed to lead is cause for a national ban on lead. The current bill as it is written (although surely to be amended) includes ALL fishing equipment with lead in it.