Confused about the rules -little help?

[dirt]

I´ve been a little confused about the rules regarding how many hooks/lures/baits you can have on a line in Ontario. I read up to 4 on one line (I realize you can only use one pole.) So, I sent an email to the MNR about the situation. Here is what I wrote to them:

Hi, just want to be sure of something and not break the law before I travel to Canada this summer. On your website it states that you can fish with one pole with one line with up to 4 hooks. I was wondering if the same rules applied to a 3-way rig. That is essentially one line that connects to a three way swivel and splits into two lines. On the first line - or dropper line I would be fishing a single hook jig and minnow or leech. On the second line - or trailer line I would be pulling a rapala (crankbait) with up to 3 treble hooks. Would this be illegal? The entire rig is hooked up to one pole and one line it just splits in two. I realize this may be a stupid question but I just want to be sure. I will be fishing the Red Lake area of Ontario, Gullrock lake to be exact.

Here was their response:

The setup as you have indicated in your e-mail would be illegal to use in Ontario . You may only have up to 4 hooks on a line (in your case, for both the dropper and trail lines combined).

:duh: Am I missing something? Is it illegal because the line splits into two lines. Would it be legal if I used a single hook and minnow as a trailer? Sorry if I come across as confused (I get that all of the time) but I just want a little clarity before I travel up there. Thanks for any info:

[tourist outfitter]

I would call or write the Red Lake office and ask to talk to someone in enforcement (get their name to save trouble later).
The set up you describe is legal as far as I know. A treble hook on a lure counts as one hook. Therefore, you are fishing with 4 hooks total.
Post the answer you get please. thanks

[v-bay gord]

I think it is the involvement of the live bait that changes things....ie.one minnow on a treble would be considered three hooks as opposed to just one without the live bait. So I guess the fact the live bait is on your line all the other hooks are viewed in a similar fashion. Maybe substitute some Gulp for the live bait.

[MN_Moose]

I think it is illegal because of the distance between hooks separated by line.

[retire55]

I'd suggest the person who responded to your question did not understand your question. I would argue that your suggested setup satisfies Ontario's 4 hook regulation. You should call MNR toll free at 1-800-667-1940 to request a second opinion (with explanation).

[dirt]

Thanks for the info guys (and the phone number). I´ll give them a call next week and try to sort it out. It was my assumption that this rig would be legal according to the regulations. I´ll post any info I get here after I call them. Anybody have anything else they want me to ask them just let me know.

[lobo1]

I'd be curious to hear what u find out too. we used to run cranks off a three way with a small spoon behind it. about half the guys said we were illegal and the others not....

in our case we only had three hooks - 2 on a hot-n-tot and one on the spoon. lots of fun catching those little 2-3 pound lake trout - two at a time!

lobo1

[v-bay gord]

We have used three sutton spoons run off three way swivels on one line for trout.....it is not illegal. The issue becomes illegal when you use live bait. A treble hook with a minnow on it is considered three hooks vs. one hook without the live bait. There was an issue with guys using big suckers on quick strike rigs a few years back because of this. A single hook in the nose plus a treble in the body was considered legal....two treble hooks made it illegal.

[tourist outfitter]

OK I cannot find anything in the reg book that says the law regarding hook numbers changes when a minnow is added but who knows? I DO know that I am really curious now.I am going to check this out tomorrow and will let you know what the MNR says.

[johnboat jr]

I would like to know also. I go up to Gulrock Lake and we make rigs like that.

johnboat jr.

[Matches]

My opinion is the reason they emailed you back to say it would be illegal, is that you have created two lines. Even in your question, you describe two lines. The first line has the minnow and the 2nd line has a lure. That's the way I read it.

Here is the link that describes it in the regulations.
http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/MNR/fishing/gear.html

Makes me wonder if those crappie Xmas Tree rigs are illegal????
I know they are in Minnesota.

[v-bay gord]

No..he is only using one line. As I pointed out, we use up to three lures (sutton spoons) off of three way swivels on a single line. It is legal. The spoons are staggered ten feet apart on three seperate lines but there is only one line going to the angler. It is all about the live bait.

[Matches]

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to be smart.
In other words, you are saying if someone had 3 fishing poles with the 3 lines tied together through the eye of one single hook, thus dropping just one hook down, he would be breaking the law??

[tourist outfitter]

Well, not the hook law. Maybe the # of rods law but the Justice of the Peace might agree with you that you're not being smart and let you off on the rarely used stupidity clause heehee

In British Columbia you are allowed only one rod while fishing unless you are alone in the boat. Then you are allowed two. The law is strange.

[v-bay gord]

I'm probably too stupid to figure out your point, but the law is one rod per angler and the number of hooks on your line is limited. My take on it is that if you are using live bait then a treble hook counts as three hooks as opposed to one on an artificial bait (no live bait). I have tried to contact our local C.O. and as of yet, nobody home. 99% sure that is the case though.

[tourist outfitter]

Well I managed to track down a Conservation Officer this morning. He agrees that the set-up is legal but wondered where you e-mailed to get the response you did.
It does not matter if you use live bait on the hooks or not.
Let me know if you get other answers.

[dirt]

Thanks for all of the info guys. I wasn´t expecting this much of a response. To answer your question I actually emailed the MNR directly the email was mnr.nric something or other. I was planning on calling them sometime this week. I haven´t gotten a chance to yet since I have been out of town on business but will get a call into them when I have a chance and I´ll post the info I get here. It´s good to know a Conservation Officer thinks it´s legal. I assumed it was legal myself but wanted to make sure. As far as the live bait/treble hook dilemma I´ll ask them when I give them a call. It would be tough to fish some worm rigs with trebles/jigs with trailer hooks if a treble was counted as 3 hooks. Anyway thanks again and as I said I´ll post any answers I get when I talk to them later.

[retire55]

I contacted the Ontario MNR call centre today. First person couldn't answer the question so I was passed up the ladder. Second person was unable to respond either so he was to call me back after he found the correct interpretation. That was this morning at 10. No response as of yet. I'll post what they tell me when they tell me.

[dirt]

I tried to call today to but go no answer to my query. Basically the same thing that happened to you said they weren´t sure and would have to call back. Still haven´t heard back. I´ll try them again maybe tomorrow.

[retire55]

I sent MNR an email yesterday and received this reply this morning:

"I have forwarded this to the Enforcement Supervisor in Red Lake so we will get a local interpretation. Stay tuned."

If and when I receive another response, I'll post it here.

[dirt]

Thanks, I still haven´t gotten a reply. Thanks for posting what you find out.

[irv johnson]

This seems to be plain enough. No more than 4 hooks per line. Splitting the hooks by droppers, etc.. makes them still on the one line.

[irv johnson]

This seems to be plain enough. No more than 4 hooks per line. Splitting the hooks by droppers, etc.. makes them still on the one line.

[retire55]

Dirt

The following question was submitted to Dave Anderson, the District Enforcement Supervisor at Red Lake, Ontario

The Ontario MNR website it states that you can fish with one pole with one line with up to 4 hooks. I was wondering if the same rules applied to a 3-way rig. That is essentially one line that connects to a three way swivel and splits into two lines. On the first line - or dropper line I would be fishing a single hook jig and minnow or leech. On the second line - or trailer line I would be pulling a rapala (crankbait) with up to 3 treble hooks. Would this be illegal? The entire rig is hooked up to one pole and one line it just splits in two. I realize this may be a stupid question but I just want to be sure. I will be fishing the Red Lake area of Ontario.

The answer I received from the District Enforcement Supervisor at Red Lake is:

What you describe would be legal.

The whole issue of what was deemed to be a hook has been confusing. This has recently been clarified in the revisions to the Ontario Fishery Regulations. The question often asked was, is a treble hook a hook or 3 hooks. So now you can have a line that has a total of 4 hooks on it. For example 4 treble (multi point) or 4 single hooks (single point) or any combination as long as it doesn’t exceed 4.

That being said there are some lakes with special regulations to restrict anglers to single point hooks, but unless it is a special regulation lake what I first said is the rule. If further clarification is required, telephone Dave Anderson at 807 727 1393

[dirt]

Thanks, that is what i figured but it´s good to know for sure.

[cory lago sioux lookout]

>I´ve been a little confused about the rules regarding how
>many hooks/lures/baits you can have on a line in Ontario. I
>read up to 4 on one line (I realize you can only use one
>pole.) So, I sent an email to the MNR about the situation.
>Here is what I wrote to them:
>
>Hi, just want to be sure of something and not break the law
>before I travel to Canada this summer. On your website it
>states that you can fish with one pole with one line with up
>to 4 hooks. I was wondering if the same rules applied to a
>3-way rig. That is essentially one line that connects to a
>three way swivel and splits into two lines. On the first line
>- or dropper line I would be fishing a single hook jig and
>minnow or leech. On the second line - or trailer line I would
>be pulling a rapala (crankbait) with up to 3 treble hooks.
>Would this be illegal? The entire rig is hooked up to one pole
>and one line it just splits in two. I realize this may be a
>stupid question but I just want to be sure. I will be fishing
>the Red Lake area of Ontario, Gullrock lake to be exact.
>
>Here was their response:
>
>The setup as you have indicated in your e-mail would be
>illegal to use in Ontario . You may only have up to 4 hooks
>on a line (in your case, for both the dropper and trail lines
>combined).
>
>:duh: Am I missing something? Is it illegal because the line
>splits into two lines. Would it be legal if I used a single
>hook and minnow as a trailer? Sorry if I come across as
>confused (I get that all of the time) but I just want a little
>clarity before I travel up there. Thanks for any info:
>
>
>
Just for your information in regards to the hook situation, because everyone gets confused by it. If you have a rapala with three treble hooks on the crank, each treble is considered one hook. If you use the treble on say a three way rig, that single treble now counts as three hooks. Yes it is a stupid rule, but someone thought it up and got paid for it in the government. So, if you use a three way rig or say a pickerel rig, you have to use all single hooks. To reiterate, when it comes to individual hook set ups, a single hook counts as one, a double hook counts as two and a treble hook counts as three, except when it is already part of a lure.... go figure....

[tourist outfitter]

You were right until this year - they changed the rules. Now a hook is a hook is a hook and you can use 4 trebles without a lure.

[dirt]

So what you´re saying is if I want I can drop a three way rig with a blade bait with one treble as the dropper and a rapala with 3 trebles as the back line? And it would be legal? Of course if I lost it I would be out like 12 bucks. :banging: