PWT Blackeye

[SKR]

I just got back from the PWT event at Chamberlain, SD where I fished as an amateur. Overall I had a good experience, but I witnessed the most devastating, heart-wrenching, thing anyone could ever see in tournament angling. The first day, Pro Angler Chris Ball brought in a huge basket, I estimated over 17#'s!! At the "bump " station a DNR Officer stepped in while Chris' fish were being measured and claimed one of his fish "touched" 18". We were only allowed to have two fish over 18". Chris already had a 22" and a 29". Like everyone else aound the tank, I got closer to see for myself as Chris requested the fish be measured again. That fish was not 18"!!! It seemed the unaminous vote around the tank was that the fish was not 18". Nevertheless, the DNR official, senses a hostile crowd of tournament anglers, "confiscated" the fish in question as well as the 22" fish as "eveidence." Poor Chris was in shock! They wrote him a ticket, DQ'ed his basket, and it is my understanding the DNR official threw the "evidence" into the river!!!! What made me mad was that no one from the PWT took any steps took protect their angler!! This situation was the hot topic of the week and eventually evolved into talk of "favortism" at the "bump-tank." I sure hope the PWT has apologized to Chris. I am still sick about it and it wasn't even me!!

[Backwater Eddy]

What the hay EH?

Even if he fought it in court and won, he still is at a major loss in his PWT effort. With the fish in question released how is he going to fight it anyway? It will be the SDG&F's word against his, not a winning scenario in my experance.

I don't know what his recourse to this would be even with the addition of any bystander's input in court?

Sounds like a raw deal to me?

Backwater Eddy

[Let's just say SD doesn't want visitors]

Let's face facts:

The SD DNR has been harassing tourney anglers for years, what's new. This is a sick story if true though. The PWT needs to clean this up if true, something along these lines happened last year. This is a 50K event, not to mention all that goes with doing well beyond the purse.

SD residents (many, not all) want all non-residents to stay the ##### out. Funny thing is, the missouri river impoundment were built with FEDERAL money

License prices went out of control

SD now has a "resident only" early pheasant season

South Dakotahns like to claim "Non-residents don't know how to catch anything," followed by "Non-Residents are catching all our fish and taking them home."

SD is a beautiful state with wonderful resources, they pay less in taxes than they get back from the Fed gov't.

oh well... they have the walleye

[BIG SKY]

We have a strange rule in Montana this year. In our Montana circuit, all Sauger and Saugeye must be released immediately, when caught in a tournament. This is funny for a couple reasons. First, our tournaments are all catch and release, with fish being measured by "weigh boats" and the conversion table is then used to determine the "weight" given. No fish are brought in, at all.
Secondly, the same guy "pre-fishing" can keep them???
Guess the F & G thinks tournament fishermen are some lower form of fisherman?

[cisco]

The whole resident v. non-resident thing gets sickening. Not only were the impoundments in the Dakotas and Montana paid for through Federal funds, the dams were built by mostly non-residents since the three states involved could not supply enough labor. And, there remain maintenance and management personnel at all six sites, plus recreational areas, again paid through Federal funds.

What walleyes would there be in the three states if the Pick-Sloan program had not been enacted and the dams built?

One can argue that the dams should never have been built, but that's hardly the issue today, after 50 years.

[Gabby_SD]

First, Lets log-in before we make these childish statements
next lets try to remember that South Dakota's largest economy is tourism (we do like to see people come here and enjoy themselves)
next license prices are on parity with most other states (other than the Oahe only permit, which is a real bargin)
And what does pheasant hunting have to do with Walleye fishing
The next statement is so ludicrous it doesn't require answerring
AND the last statement is absolutely assinine (I really wish I could get back more taxes than I send in)
But we do have lots of walleye, lots of great fishermen that are quick to help others (read your posts)Now if one DNR officer make a fool of himself, do you make a quick decision (backed up with the words "FACTS") and judge everyone, but most of all sign in next time so the rest of uss know you for the fool you are

[SD...]

My comments maybe were more incendiary than I thought but...

Fact, South Dakotans (as a state) receive more federal money than they pay into the federal government. Much of this is due to large tracts of federal land, including reservations and other protected area. It also is a function of a low per-capita income. It just gets old being a non-resident in SD and hearing constant complaints at the boat ramps, restaurants, etc. Sorry, but true. Hey if there were jobs that paid as well in SD for what I do, I'd move in a heartbeat.

Fact, Yes tourism is a large part of SD, but there is certainly a large % of SD folk who want non-residents out. Check Tony Deans website, the Sioux Falls Argus, etc. Amazingly, the tourist industry doesn't protect themselves very well. If tourism is so encouraged why do the average license fees approximately DOUBLE surrounding states, plus have more restrictions like (i know you hate this) pheasant hunting day # restrictions, large waterfowl restrictions, etc.

Fact, SD DNR folks didn't earn a very good reputation at last year's PWT with measuring and other harassment of licensing, etc. The biggest problem last year was the lack of politeness by a few officers, as you say, the bulk are fantastic. I think you might even agree Gabby the largest single thing the SD DNR could do to protect the fisheries would be to catch the double and triple dippers from SD. I know the occasional non-resident is caught doing this and it's well-publicized, but I don't see much about residents with 100 eyes in the freezer.

Fact, Pheasant hunting is an issue, along with other outdoor recreation sports because it gives the overall impression to stay out.

Yes, I do agree the Oahe license is a good deal at $20. I think it's $10 less than Neb and Ia's license for a year. Without it, many of the Oahe lodge owners were facing their last year in business. It has been a tremendous boom.

South Dakota is a great state wrestling with a large political and economic football regarding what they want to do with tourism. I thank you Gabby for supporting it, but many of your brethren, fellow sportsman, political leaders, and media outlets don't. It's their right too.

If you don't respect my post because I didn't use my normal board name, that's quite alright and you are welcome to your opinion. I just find it said that sportsmen and women get so easily divided by state borders.

peace

[pepe]

first of all i would like to pat sd on the back for his reply. i thought it was well written. i would also like to add something that happened to me on a recent hunting trip to colorado. their hunting licenses have been going up like crazy. when i purchased my non-resident license, a local resident asked me why i had to buy a non-resident license since i was going to hunt and camp in a federal park which, our federal taxes paid for?!!!pepe.

[SDangler]

I spoke to Chris, GREAT guy!! I am still disturbed by this incident as well. I know Chris withdrew from the tournament. Does anyone know what the PWT has done about this?

[TournEYE]

What is the NPAA's position on this?

[Eyez]

I haven't heard that story, but I heard an almost identical story about an almost identical situation that happened in a local tournament on saturday the weekend before PWT started. Is there anyone that knows for sure what happened? I've always supported our GF&P, don't get me wrong, but if we have 2 identical situations less than a week apart, and both were that controvertial, it makes me wonder what the heck is actually going on there.


Eyez

[Eyez]

Very nice post. I know that this is kind of getting off the topic of the thread, but I think it's relevant. I'm an SD resident, and I hear both sides of this story all the time. I regularly get to listen to some (not all, not even most, but a few) locals whine and complain about out of state folks catching THEIR walleyes and shooting THEIR pheasants. Those whiners are the minority, but they are here, as I suppose they are in most other states. Part of the problem here is that they are given so much attention. This has become a self fulfilling prophecy. Non residents are supposed to be bad, right? I sit and talk with guys while fishing, walking shorelines, talking, and I regularly get to listen to others tell me about the guy with minnesota plates who put too many fish in his cooler, or some such story. They never seem to see the same type of behavior when it's a local fisherman doing it, and believe me, it happens. Fact is, most non residents behave quite well when they're in SD, if for no other reason than they know they have to, because they overhear the same conversations I do while they're eating breakfast of filling gas, and they know that there's always one guy around that's just waiting for them to do something wrong so he can go back to the cafe and tell all his friends about it.

As for the anonymous fellow who made post number two. You are the very reason that non residents get a bad name in SD. I assume that you are not from SD, and you're mad because you think you got a raw deal here sometime. You keep coming back though, visiting every year right in the middle of the summer crowd, badmouthing south dakota the whole time, all the while reeling in another walleye from one of our tremendous fisheries.

I'm sorry for this incredibly long post (even by my standards), but this whole thing could all be solved by just a little bit of respect among all those involved. In every crowd there are always a few bad apples that make a bad name for the rest. That includes the residents, the non residents, the government, and the GF&P. We all just need to stop being so hard on each other, and put ourselves in each other shoes, and act like the adults we're supposed to be. We could avoid a lot of these problems.

Sorry again for the long post, this is just one of those things that no amount of talking ever seems to solve.


Eyez

[cisco]

PWT officials run the weigh-in -- not the DNR. Obviously the DNR can observe and intervene. However, if PWT officials claim to know nothing about this, then they were negligent in conducting the most important part of the contest. The weigh-in is their ball game. If an injustice was done, they should know and let their position be known.

[eye1]

Sounds like a bad deal indeed but at this point an apology is porbably all that could be expected with an outside shot at an entry refund.
To avoid things like this in the future why not cut or add a quarter of an inch to the legal slot for tourney purposes(ie: must be over 18 1/4" instead of 18).We all know fish have tendency "grow" a little in the livewell and while no tourney angler is going to intentionally bring in a too short/too long fish ,it does happen from time to time.While a slightly tighter slot will eliminate some legal fish from being brought in it would eliminate things like this from happening in the future and certainly would keep any "questionably" legal fish from being brought to the scales.

Just a thought

[mnjimcarp]

NOT THE FIRST TIME A TOURNEY ANGLER HAS BEEN DQ'd FOR THIS TYPE OF PROBLEM AND IT WILL NOT BE THE LAST.
This type of thing has happened many times. Too bad for this gentleman in SD PWT. It truly is tough to be dq'd. I had it happen myself in a NAWA Pro-Am on MIlle Lacs. Guess what, i had a fish that i knew was a potential problem. I also made a decision to go with it and try to get it through the weigh-in. Bad decision.
I am not assuming that any of the details in the post are exactly accurate. who knows exactly what transpired. even so, THE PWT IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PROBLEM. the local game and fish authority makes the final decision if they are there. if the local warden isn't there, the tourney organizer makes the final decision.
when this problem arises, it really is unfortunate, however an angler with so much prize money on the line should be careful not to put themselves in a situation where it is not clear unless they are willing to pay the ultimate price.
another story that involves a long time PWT pro has been floating around for his bad decision in a local MN tourney for a few years. he is still licking his wounds and guess what, i will guarantee you that he is more careful when deciding what fish to keep or not keep. this guy in MN had the tourney won and made a really bad decision to try and pound the competition a little further and it back fired. cost him a lot of bait money!
i am not personally involved in this SD PWT "dq" so it is easy to be objective. "toss your potential problem fish and put in a safer one for the weigh-in".

[curt quesnell]

the decision was made to weigh 17 pounds of fish, 2 big ones
and one that was REAL close to the limit. as it turns out, it
wasnt the right decision to make that day.

i dont think the pwt has any explaining to do, i think cris ball
has learned a valuable lesson he wont forget soon.

all anglers everywhere can learn from this, the game wardens
measurement is the official one.

im sure most tourning pros have been in the same situation
and have established there own "personal" slot limits to keep
them safe at the tank and still competitive.

good luck to cris ball in the future, i hope he can put this
behind him and still keep the knowledge.


curt quesnell


one more thing, with a field of 150 boats there are lots of
things that happen in every tournement and some of them end up
seeming unfair somehow. there were 149 pros who didnt get
fish confiscated by the game wardens. "ya pays your money,
and ya takes your chances"

[Juls_WI]

Chris,
Sorry to hear about this. What a bummer. I was watching the Leaderboard, and looking for your results and couldn't figure out what was going on. I knew you wouldn't be coming in with zeros and no fish!!! Now I understand. That really stinks parnter! I feel for ya.
Better luck next time.

Juls

[jigger]

I just got back from the PWT event late last night and saw this post. Man, my heart still hurts for Chris. I disagree that the PWT isn't responsible. The DNR were jerks to us all week. The PWT did not follow procedure and did not protect their angler. Jim Kalkofen told us the night before the incident that we were measuring with a "fanned" tail. They measured with a pinched tail. Mark Dorn said that he would measure all questionable fish, and that "if you got it to go, I will get it to go." Mark never saw Chris' fish. The president of the NPAA openly admitted that he witnessed a leader of the tournament bring in four fish over 18", yet nothing was done. There goes the crediability of the NPAA. Why didn't the NPAA step in a protest Chris' situation? The whole thing was an eye-opener for everyone who fishes PWT. A tremendous amount of respect and trust was lost. I want to know how this turns out.

[Backwater Eddy]

The ND & SD & MN DNR/G&F ALWAYS measure fish with a pinched tail. It would seam to me that this would be well known to PWT officials and also to NPAA officials.

My question is this, "Why would the PWT use a method different then the one used by the G&F/DNR?

That seems to be just asking for a problem to arise?

I have worked with the ND G&F and am presently working with the MN DNR in creel data survey's. The tail pinch nose to the stop method is S.O.P., (standard operating procedure) for all data collections of fish length. I do also believe it is a national standard set for data collection of fish length for all USF&WS agencies.

Backwater Eddy

[Jay]

How is the PWT or NPAA suppose to "protect their angler" against the DNR? Confronting a DNR officer on a power-trip would only make matters worse. Get in a cops face after receiving a speeding ticket and see how far it gets you. It's an issue that should be addressed by the PWT with the DNR in the future, but there isn't much that can be done on-site. It's the DNR's call, good or bad and this sounds like a case of an unreasonable DNR officer abusing his power. The PWT may want to reconsider having SD tournys, but to blame this incident on the PWT or NPAA is unfair in my opinion.

[GARY/MN]

A suggestion: Next time anyone complanes to you about seeing someone from out of state taking more than the allowed limit, or breaking the law in any way. Ask them why they didn't turn them in? If they were so outraged they should have. By not turning the lawbreaker in, they just allowed a crime to be committed without doing anything about it. In a way they just helped the lawbreaker get away with his crime.

Maybe just maybe, the lawbreaking isn't as widespread as some would have you believe, but it sure makes for a good story and gets a lot of attention, and that's what most of the loudest whiners want!

[Bo Fisher]

>measuring with a "fanned" tail.
> They measured with a
>pinched tail.

I have never fished in or organized a tourney, but I can imagine there are a million things to do and to worry about.

As far as our SDGF&P, some (or most) of the conservation officers are STICKLERS for detail. One CO even busted his best friend.

I am sure that the PWT angler thought that he was legal, and I am also sure that the CO thought that he was illegal.

In an event of this magnitude, I would consider an official review process and maybe a photo while the fish was on the measurement device to prove conclusively that the fish was either legal or illegal. Just as football has an instant replay or racing has a photo finish this might give conclusive proof.

Although I wasn't there, I'll offer a guess that there may have been some confusion on how to measure a fish.

I checked the 2001 SD Fishing Handbook, available for download from

http://www.state.sd.us/gfp/hunting/Applications/PDFs/FishingHandbook.pdf

There is a drawing of a walleye and how to measure it on page 20. I have been measuring them incorrectly myself. Please check the handbook or download it for yourself. I am glad this came up in conversation so I know how to do it now.

To paraphrase: "Keep the tail lobes pressed together"

I think this was a lose-lose situation.

I feel very bad for the PWT angler and the PWT that something like this happened. I also feel bad for the CO and SD for getting a bad name from this incident.


Bo Fisher

[BIG SKY]

"Fanned tail" , that would be imposible. If the tail were split it fans further. I have never heard of measuring using a "fanned tail".
You mean people just sat there and listened to that from Kalkofen and said nothing? Obviously Jim was having a brain fart at the time, and really did not mean to say that. The proof is when the actual measuring time came, and the tails were squeezed as they ALWAYS are, and as the "law" does it.
I can't imagine that got said and not challenged.

[Sam Anderson]

Dear Jigger,

I also have just returned from the tournament in SD.

To set the record straight...you made mention of the NPAA president witnessing a leader bring four fish over 18 inches to the tanks.
Someone has obviously been misinformed or is out right spreading rumors that are untrue. Actually, I've already talked to a dozen people in the fishing industry that have asked me about this situation because they received info that seemed fishy from a few tournament anglers who are losing credability fast. Here's part of what really happened at the PWT.

First of all, I highly doubt Mike McClelland would start an untrue rumor like this. I can tell you that Mike did witness my 8 fish that were in my livewel before they were removed from my livewell on day one of the tournament. I had 2 fish that were over 18 inches and I had 6 other fish that were under 18 inches. Out of the 6 fish under 18 inches I CHOOSE to weigh 4 of those 6 fish along with my 2 over 18 inches. As I brought my fish to the judge tank...TANK and another PWT official were there...along with 2 SD Game & Fish enforcement officers. They all studied my fish and agreed that the fish that were measured were legal.
I CHOOSE to leave one of the walleyes in my livewell that was longer than the other 4 under 18 inches I brought to the scale due to it's closeness to touching the 18 inch mark. NO ONE ELSE CHOOSE TO DO THIS...NOT THE PWT>>>NOT THE SD GAME AND FISH!
Mike McClelland did give me some advice from his years of experience, not to bring the fish that was in question to the scales. Really, what would I gain between a 17 inch and a fish that was 17 7/8ths? Maybe a couple ounces.

When I kept the fish on the water, it was under 18 inches by a 1/8 of an inch. At the time I put the fish in the boat it was not my intention to break SD law or the rules of the PWT tournament...my partner witnessed the fish when we decided to keep it and agreed that it was under 18 inches. When we got to the docks...the fish had relaxed and come too close to the 18 inch mark and therfore was a "RISK" to my entire basket being disqualified.
This decision should have been made by the other anglers in the tournament who chanced there heavy catches...only to be disappointed by the decisions that the SD Game & Fish officers are required by law to make on tournament anglers and recreational fisherman.

I fortunately have had enough tournament experience in my 10 years fishing the PWT to encounter situations like this. Early on in my career I was not as fortunate to have made this same decision. Learning from your mistakes, even against very hard ones, is part of tournament fishing.
The real problem that I witnessed at this last event is that the few anglers that did get disqualified wanted to push the blame off on everyone but themselves. I heard it was the PWT's fault, I heard it was the SD Game and Fish's fault, I even heard that it was my fault and other anglers in the tourneys fault because we had made the right decision based on experience not to bring fish to the scales that were too close to call.
This was a very disappointing situation for Chris Bahl and others that made the wrong call to bring fish that were too close to the 18 inch mark to the scale. Chris is a close friend and a savy tournament competitor. I wish him and others who made the wrong call the best as they deal with this difficult situation.
I know how Chris must feel...after my disappointing brush with a PWT victory at last years PWT tournament on Lake Sharpe.

I was leading going into the last day of the tournament. I had never felt more confident of winning; ever in all my tournaments than I did that third day of the PWT on Lake Sharpe. However, someone had a different plan for me on that last day. It was not the PWT's fault...It was not the SD Game and Fishes fault...they all conducted the tournament from rules that were written in black and white. God decided to give us a tremendous wind that day and I was 60 miles down the reservoir with my fish. The rules for the day were that I had to get to the scales by my appointed time to weigh my fish or be disqualified. Unfortunatly, my partner and I never made it to the scales.
Was I upset, YES! Was I frustrated and not thinking clearly for the rest of that day and a few days later, YES! Do I regret the decisions I made to run 60 miles south and risk the chance of not getting back to win....absolutly not...why should I...with out some risk in life...things get pretty boring. Have I overcome that disappointing day....YES! It has made me stronger and a better angler because of it.
In closing, God gives us situations where we sometimes wonder what his intention for us really is? These times can be very difficult...especailly if you do not have faith. Life is not easy...For those of you out there that enjoy blame, twisting the facts and creating rumors...think a little before saying or posting something that you do not know to be 100% truth. You will certaintly make things better for everyone...including yourself in the long run...have faith.

[Chris Bahl]

I just got home from church and something told me to check this site. Thanks to all for your kind words and discussion that will benefit everyone from this in the future. Juls, I had it!! This was the one. I still consider my "streak" alive.

First, the people of Chamberlain, SD are the best. What a great place to visit and an especially great place to have a tournament. This situation in no way takes from their efforts or hospitality.

Second, this is a tremendous opportunity for everyone involved. I withdrew from the tournament under protest for several reasons. I was devastated, drained emotionally and physically from the circumstances, and down right upset with the way the situation was handled by the PWT and the DNR considering the stakes. I could not believe that there was not a "Competition/Rules Committee", made up of competitiors, PWT officials, and local DNR officials to evaluate the situation and make a ruling. Our country and sporting world is based on equality and due-process. The Tournament Director didn't even evaluate the fish in question. An over-zealous DNR official made at least a $53,000 decision that ultimately has effected, embarrassed, and impacted several people. I even asked the fish be measured by a second DNR official on their method of measurement (the "Golden Rule") only to be denided that simple request. Every other professional sports organization in the world also has a "players" association that files protest and grievences on behalf of the "athletes" in order to assure a level and fair playing field for all. I believe this situation is the perfect opportunity for the NPAA to evaluate its role to professional anglers as well as to the tournament organizers. I also believe this is a tremendous opportunity for the PWT to evaluate its competition policy and procedures as well as its decision making process. As for the DNR, I don't know what to say. They checked our licenses during the first day of the tournament on the water as opposed to pre-fishing days or even our rules meeting when we were all under one roof. It is my opinion the DNR was definitly "laying" for us. Maybe the outcry from this will reach Pierre.

I won't get into the series of events of the situation as I am expecting to hear from the PWT early this next week. I have tremendous respect for Jim Kalkofen and Mark Dorn and I am confident they will do the right thing. I am also confident a lot of positive change will come from this. Maybe the good Lord chose me to help raise our sport to a higher level. If so, I will do my best to see it through. Late Wednesday night a local prominent businessman and tournament volunteer came to my room and provided me a written statement of what he observed. He had been working the "bump tank" that day and was deeply disturbed by the days events. In order to help clear his own conscious he had to let me know I was not treated fairly. When he left we both had tears in our eyes and I knew then that I had made the right decision to withdraw under protest and to make a stand for what is right. I am now in receipt of eight (8) written statements by participants, volunteers and spectators. On friday I was introduced to a South Dakota State Senator who had heard what had happened to me and drove to Chamberlain that day to meet with me. The out pour of support has been tremendous. My point is, there is a serious problem that needs to be addressed on several fronts. Ignoring or "sweeping this under the rug" will only hurt all of us in the long run.

I appreciate all of your support and interest. I will keep all of you posted as to the outcome of this. Unfortuantly, many of my goals for this year now look as though they have swam down the Missouri River. But if positive change comes from this and our sport grow from it, it will all be worth it.

God Bless

Chris Bahl

teamstizo@home.com

[Chris Bahl]

Great post Sam!!!

Competitors need to stick together and not give credit to those bring up names in slanderous or defamitory commentary. You are a true professional, a great friend, and an asset to the world of tournament angling. I am only sorry that I didn't make the decision that you did. I accept the responsibility and learned from it. You did not hear me point fingers, I was only disturbed by the process of decision making and the lack of due process for such high stakes.

I deeply regret that my name is linked to this situation, yet I accept the responsibility that comes with it. I will do what it takes to advance the sport I love and will vigorously fight any efforts to tear it down. I know you will do the same Sam!!!

Chris

[BillSD]

Well Does anyone actually know if the fish was 18"? If it was do those of you doing all the crying and whineing think tournement participents should be able to break the laws? Because if he is guilty then I don't know how anyone could stick up for him.

[Jesse Fletcher]

I was Sam's partner on day one. As has already been stated, the SD laws and PWT rules differ on fish measurement guidelines. SD only requires a pinched tail where as the PWT fans the tail.

Sam and I DID NOT break any SD laws. The fish were legal when we caught them and were still legal when we reached the boat dock at the end of the day. There was absolutely no SD laws or PWT rules broken at anytime.

It was decided after much thought and varying opinions to not risk one of the 8 fish against the PWT standard as the fish was truely to close to know what might happen. The fish was legal by SD standards.

From my point of view, the PWT measuring standard helped ensure that SD laws would not be accidently broken. Their measuring standards requires you to throw extremely close fish back immediately.

I hope this helps straighten out this incorrect rumor.

[BJohnson]

You are obviously one plagued with thought. It sounds as though it was very close and that there was a misunderstanding on the method by which to measure the fish. If I were Chris I would challenge the ticket and then take it from there. It sounds as though he has a very good case. I see liability in the PWT and the DNR. If you don't have your ducks in a row, don't have a "professional tournament." This could get interesting.

Shouldn't the NPAA take a position in this? I agree with some earlier comments regarding the role of the NPAA. If the NPAA is for real, then take the responsibility. Otherwise, quit taking our money.

[22"?]

I would like to know why they took the 22" fish for evidence. That don't make any sense to me. As far as making a choice as to bring in a fish close to the limit it is one of the hardest decisions in tournament fishing. Some times you have to take the chance. I think Chris really belived he was safe and that should answer anyones question as to the fish being 18"s. If he didn't do you think he would have dropped out of the whole thing?

[Steve Anderson]

Great Point!!!!! This guy is a professional fisherman with a lot at stake. You can bet he measured that fish numerous times before he brought it in. Did the tournament director measure the fish? I know that they, the law, also allow you to use your measuring device in case of discrepencies. Was he giving this opportunity?

[skip guindon]

If you want to know about PWT favortism, ask Kalkofen what they did to me a few years ago at Mille Lacs. My fish were weighed, I had signed my weigh slip(rules state once weigh slip is signed weight is final)later they decided that one fish was too long. We couldn't fight it because they had already released the fish. I lost all respect for the PWT and Kalkofen that day. I had witnesses Don Woods and Bob Propst Sr. I was going to sue the PWT, but my sponsors talked me out of it. I regret not doing it.

[PFrancone]

Does anyone know of any other similar situations? Professional sport cannot and should not be dictated under autocracy. Mr. Bahl should take this to the highest court in the land. A perfect opportunity for reform. I am an attorney and believe that Mr. Bahl has a very credible and sound case. I suggest the PWT get with him quickly.

I believe I am going to e-mail Mr. Bahl myself. This could be something we all benefit from in the long run.

[PFrancone]

Does anyone know of any other similar situations? Professional sport cannot and should not be dictated under autocracy. Mr. Bahl should take this to the highest court in the land. A perfect opportunity for reform. I am an attorney and believe that Mr. Bahl has a very credible and sound case. I suggest the PWT get with him quickly.

I believe I am going to e-mail Mr. Bahl myself. This could be something we all benefit from in the long run.

[curt quesnell]

thanks sam and chris for steppin up and trying to set things
straight.

the rumor mongers are tough to stop but it seems to be straight
forward enough comming first hand from you guys.

sam, you know as well as anyone, with your 10 years on tour,
that each and every event has one or two things that happen
that could be blown out of proportion.

see you sometime this summer sam, or at the championship
for sure.

good luck chris bahl (correct spelling this time)with the
rest of your summer too.

curt quesnell

[curt quesnell]

very good point jay,

what could have been done?...the show belongs to the pwt
but they are subject to the same rules as everyone else.

the game wardens still need to do their jobs. pwt or the
npaa cant interfere law enforcement.

i just cant imagine what the people calling for action might
think anyone could have done.

a nice post below from chris bahl.......it should be read
by all, because it shows that chris is a grown up man who
takes responsibility for his actions and doesnt try to
shuffle them off to anyone else.


curt quesnell

[Westy]

Let's just say, maybe you are right. But then again, your state probably wouldn't want me there if I had the same chip on my shoulder. Due to your words of wisdom, I now know what is wrong with all of my neighbors and me. We are all game hogs who are anti-social towards all non-South Dakota residents. What a revelation! I thank you.

Yes, we have an early season pheasant hunt for Residents this year. This issue is complicated and has strong support (pro and con) from within the state. South Dakota gratefully receives tens of thousands of non-resident hunters for the annual season. Due to the intense hunting pressure, some changes are being made. Some favor it, some do not.

Your comment about the residents complaining about non-resident overharvesting of game is true. Do we complain? Yes. Do we know that it is happening? Yes. Do our own residents do it? Yes. Does the media sensationalize it when it happens? Yes. As an out of stater in your area that gets caught poaching, would I end up on the front page of your local newspaper? Yes.
But, I ask you, do these same things happen in your area? Yes.

I will also say that there are probably some federally supported programs, past or present, in your state that don't benefit me, but that doesn't make you culpable to it.

This is not something new and reserved only for South Dakota residents. In the future, if you wish to spew some condemnation of others, please feel free not to hide behind an anonymous post. By doing this, your credibility is diminished. Use your normal posting name if you want it to mean something. Mine is Westy, Mike Westberg, SD.

[800proX]

Nittis Hunter Point - the second largest (behind wave wackers) team tourney on Mille Lacs last season saw 13 teams (out of 120+) get dq'd for over length fish.

18" is 18" and while there is NO intent to mislead, get away with one, or the like, it is still the rules by which all must play. my partner and i had one that was 27 3/4" (28" min) that would have allowed us to win the tourney, but just like trying to stretch it, you cannot shrink it, and if you do your best to make it 18" and it comes up 17 7/8" you got a keeper, at any time you stretch it 18" - it's a bummer.

while there is really no blame here, just best that chris came in here, and backed by sam to show that these are 2 pros doing the best they can. all walleye fisherman can learn from this example.

jeff

[ebeherands]

I think the PWT and the DNR need to work together at these tournaments and not seperatly. If they would have made a concetrated effort to work together we would not have these situations constantly popping up in professional angling. Now they both have egg on their face. If they worked together neither would be in this situation.

[ND PWT angler]

I agree! I have talked to Chris on several ocassions and he is a true professional. It is hard at times to speak with pros at tournaments unless your fishing with them. I have found that Chris has never been to busy to speak with anyone, as well as being very open and honest about his fishing tactics and strategies. This is one of the worst situations I have seen happen to a great guy. By the way, Chris was bringing in big fish all week. I spoke with his first day amateur and the guy was in ah, and couldn't say enough great things about his experience. This is just sad!

Keep your head up Chris, you have shown tremendous character and integrity.

[jerry]

Well said Sam. I can tell others who might read these reports that I met both Chris and Sam for the first time at the Erie RCL and was impressed with the integrity and class they bring to these competitions. Can't wait to see you both at Saginaw Bay in Erie and hear of these experiences. Thanks from all of us who strive to compete at high levels such as yours and still maintain class.

[Chenoweth]

This is the most positive and constructive discussion I have seen on this message board. Makes me proud to be apart of this sport!


Scott

[ETT]

Chris,
Really sorry to hear about the situation. I know your efforts will be to "raise the bar". Hope it works out in the long run to be of benefit to you and your Team Stizo, and I hope the rest of the tournament world comes to get a clear picture of what happened and why.
I can tell by your post that you've got a handle on it. I'm glad for that.
I know your choosing your words carefully. Good luck and God's speed to a satisfactory ending.
Warmest Wishes Jim Stedke

[mnjimcarp]

wow, can't even escape the ambulance chasers here...

[Chris Bahl]

Thanks Jim, I really appreciate it. I will keep you posted.

[Eric Olson]

Hey Chris,
Although I havn't met you I have heard a lot about you from your Am's and others.You're a first class guy and I respect the way in which you're dealing with this "Issue". I'm pulling for you and hope that the resolution to this situation will help ALL tournament anglers as well as general public.
It's sad that we have to learn about these questionable issues when the cost is so high. Yes I know that 18" is 18" but there are some criteria that weren't followed as requested and that is worth the fight.
Chris, work on this but don't let it get you down. This kind of thing could be anattitude killer so hang in there, Saginaw RCL isn't far away!

Fight the good fight.

Tight Lines
Big Fish

Eric Olson

[Hans]

I wasn't there, so my opinion is just someone on the sidelines, but when you cut through all the emotion and rhetoric, it seems to boil down to the fact that the DNR measured a fish to be longer than 18".

Since we all know how DNR measures fish (pinched tail), isn't that the end of the story? NPAA and the tourney, and all the rest of us still gotta live by the DNR rule, right?

So what's the controversy about?

Hans

[Al]

I am sorry for what happend.It makes me sick to see a tournament decided by an over zealous, pompous official. Obviously, someone needs to get a grip on that sect of the DNR. The checking of licenses during tournament hours is assinine. I've been in Bass tournaments where you had to show your permits etc at the meeting when you checked it. The DNR could choose to be there or not. I fish about 6-10 tournaments a year (bass and walleye-some big, some not), in other states, and have never been checked during the tournament. Practice and at the meeting yes....but NEVER in a tournament. It's nice to hear that a senator is getting involved. Maybe that will get the attention of someone at the DNR and make them a bit more angler friendly.

In regards to PWT....with all the sworn statements Chris has, it's obvious enough people saw something different than what the DNR dork claimed. PWT isn't a spectator here. I've seen guys in BASS get the attention of hosting states and cities when on site. They don't ask for special rules, but they object to harassment. PWT should put the word out, that when we bring our show to your locale, your area reaps big bucks. Screw with our competitors unfairly, and we won't ever be back again. That threat alone should have kept the DNR dork from "getting rid" of the evidence. It's sad, not all DNR guys are like that, but the number seems to be growing at a highly rapid rate. Maybe they need to go through a government examination and public ****ation like the IRS has.

[NPAA Member]

It was my understanding that the NPAA worked very hard with SD game fish and parks on the boat registration issue this year before the PWT event. There was not a citation given this year at the tournament for improper registration. Chris, try the NPAA and see what they can do for you.
I am not sure why people are pointing their fingers at the PWT or the NPAA. Chris made a decision to keep a fish, the fish was questionable, and the sequenced happened. Chris stood up and faced his actions. Will he ever do that again? No. Sam Anderson brought up the same point. Give Chris the credie he deserves. He stood up and took the punishment like a man. I respect him for that. He made a mistake and has excepted the responsibility. More people need to be that way. I wish Chris the best of luck the rest of the year.

Chrisr

[Observer]

There were citations for improper boat registration issued again this year. I suggest you re-check with your NPAA buddies. It seemed SD DNR wanted proof of sales tax being paid on the boat.

[observer]

I talked with the SD G, F, and P this morning on the boating registration issue. I was told by them, that no citations were given for improper boat registration at the Chamberlain PWT event. If you know of some that were. Let me know.

Thanks,


Charlie Moore, NPAA

[Dave in Mpls]

Observer or anyone:

Can you shed some light for me on why the DNR would have any reason to ask, or any jurisdiction to ask about tax payments. I'm assuming it has to do with registration, or lack thereof, on the boats, but I have a hard time understanding what sales tax has to do with anything. If SD requires (as I'm assuming they do) that boats display a registration number if on the water, then what difference does it make if sales tax was paid. If the boat doesn't have registration numbers, then the boat owner is in the wrong, no? Or are boats like autos, where you have X number of days after purchase to display, like a license plate?


Thanks for the education!

Regards

[Al]

If that is true about proof of sales tax being paid on boats, how do you memo guys get away with it? I know some are registered with the dealer. Then no sales tax would be paid. Sounds like there's a mass case of Deputy Dog going on in SD.

[former PWTfisherman]

The PWT has established a good track record of showing favoritism, I fished on the circuit for one year, that was enough for me. My favorite PWT tail is when they announced Roger Gathman the winner, then about 20 minutes later, announce another winner because of live weight bonus error. I also enjoy holding back big weights until the end of the final day for a more climatic finish. I feel for all of you that still insist on paying the money to the PWT for the treatment you receive unless you are in the "IN CROWD"

[Just sho's to go ya]

Unfortunately, there are too many DNR enforcement officers that are truly arrogant, holier than thou, power drunk Pr**ks. Period, end of that story. And not just to tourney anglers. Remember the pr**k officer in the litter ticket post about a month or two back? And Yes, Chris kept the fish, yes, he made a decision that set forth a chain of events. However, not allowing a second check of said fish by the same or another official? Harrasment of anglers about licenses and registration, several times in one short week? C'mon, sounds like the fish fuzz need a prozac the size of a buick! I'll be awaiting any statements by the PWT NPAA, the Senator from SD, or the DNR to see how this goes. I have not been to Chamberlain, and will never go there if this is how out of staters, and tourney anglers are treated. I pay for my boat, but would I need proof of sales tax to show?Chris is behaving like more than a true pro, he is behaving in a truly civilized manner and keeping his head. Bravo Chris!

[Curious?]

Anyone hear any news on Chris's situation? Anything from the PWT or NPAA?

[Ms.Eye]

I know I have found a new favorite pro angler. Way to go Chris!!! Keep your head up and let us all know how this turns out. We will all be interested in how the PWT resolves this.

[EyeJacker]

The explanation may be quite simple...These SD G&F officials, obviously, were still smarting over the pail of Pet Fish that did not perform to their satisfaction.:-)
Jack
You win some, you lose some and some are thrown out.

[NPAA??]

Charlie

What is the NPAA's response to Chris' situation? You commented on the tax issue. There are many of us that would like for you to comment on the "real" issue that pertains to your association.

Robert Sims

[Schmitty]

Chris
The DNR official could not release that fish because it was evidance.
If he in fact did this I believe the DNR of South Dakota owes you allot of money and a good Lawyer will get it for you.
On the ticket issue go to court, no evidence no grounds for ticket.
The way you are handling this makes me proud to be a fellow tournament angler.
(Although not in the same league)
Good luck
Schmitty

[SUPERTROLLER]

A question of the Officer taking the 22 inch fish has not been properly addressed. Does the officer have the right to "confiscate" a legal length fish that is not in question? Seems like if they had only taken the "18" incher and allowed him the weigh the rest, he could have stayed in the tournament. DNR officer could still have written him the ticket and everyone still would know the 18 inch limit was being followed properly. Chris would still have had the opportunity to overcome the over vealous officer and his chance at victory would still be there. That officer has now denied Chris his legal rights of due process by destroying the evidence. He has also impacted his chances in the season long points championship. 8 depositions and Chris and his partner ought to open the eyes of either a judge or jury that possibly the officer was wrong and that the fish wasn't over 18 inches "beyond a reasonable doubt". I'm no lawyer but aren't we all innocent until "proven" guilty. The proof is still swimming in the lake and the officer has no one to back his side of the story because he didn't allow another officer to verify his measurement. Chris will be vindicated but he still got screwed. Hope he wins some money in a court case. I don't usually suggest suing as a way for getting justice as most lawsuits are for moneygrabbers but he would win based on what I see, if I was sitting on a jury.

[Hmmmmm]

Assuming he had 3 18"+ fish, how do you know which one was caught last? In alot of states they would have taken all the fish.

[EyeJacker]

Tough story Chris, I also believe your streak lives on, although what is truly important is your perception. "A rose by any other name is still a rose"! Hang tough and shake it off! Your fellow eyeguys/gals know the facts. Authority can be an intoxicating power, substituting judicial blindness with self serving EYEsight more often than one dares to believe.
Jack
The brass ring awaits!

[Chris Bahl]

Thanks Jack!! I really appreciate it.

I promised to keep everyone updated. The interest and support has been very overwhelming. What a great group to be associated with. I have heard some very interesting input and all of it has been very constructive.

I did receive a letter from the PWT today. I wrote them back and should hear from them again tomorrow or Thursday. If this was NASCAR or the NBA you would hear about it on SportsCenter tonight. ( : On the other hand, if this was NASCAR or the NBA the situation would have been resolved before competition resumed. I have a court date of May 15th and will be back in South Dakota fighting for all of our rights.

I have spoken to people on both coast, two (2) State Senators, and one (1) U.S. Congressman so far!! All of your positive communication is being heard! Julie and I both give Thanks to the Lord and have totally put this in his hands. If you have any input or would just like to talk please feel free to e-mail me at teamstizo@home.com.

God Bless,

Chris Bahl

[EyeJacker]

Although I do not know you personnally Chris, I suspect that the sign of "Pieces" has a very special meaning to you also. With your enlistment of the supreme "JUDGE" you can not lose, for HE alone has perfect eyesight. God Speed.

Jack

[eye guy]

It is quite intresting that the DNR official didn't want to let another official measure the fish. The way I look at it that only supports Chris in this matter. I am a SD resident and hope every comes to enjoy our state and its wildlife.

[Mr T]

Sorry guys but this frakis is just too tempting not to jump into.First, the new "low" priced Oahe license was put in place for one reason only, and that is too increase the harvest of smaller walleye. This is the GF&P's effort to establish balance back into the forage fish- game fish populations. Right now there are too many Walleyes and too few Smelt. It was not done to benefit or acomidate non resident anglers. As for the resident only Pheasant season, this is just the result resident wanting to blame non residents for the hunting access problems. This is a rotten idea. Already some states are talking about retaliation. For instance, Wyoming has started talking about not allowing South Dakota residents to hunt the first 2 days of the Deer or Elk seasons. South Dakotans would be smart to remember that everyone is a non resident of somewhere else. Including them. How many South Dakota big game hunters dream of a Wyoming elk hunt and a big 6 point bull. They would consider it a major imposition of "unfairness" if they can't hunt the first 2 days. Oh well, what goes around comes around. These kind of laws start us all down a very slippery slope. My opinion anyway.

[actual South Dakota resident]

eye guy, you must be joking

>DNR official ?????????? LOL

Obviously you are NOT a South Dakota resident, you must be from San Dimas, or San Diego

South Dakota does not have a DNR.

Please do not fake posts and claim you are from South Dakota when you are not.

If you are from San Dimas or San Diego, or a different SD than the one I live in, please accept my apology, and invite people to come enjoy the state you actually live in, which must be one that has a DNR.

Sincerely,

actual South Dakota Resident

[Yah Hans]

My thoughts are: The PWT was inviting a problem if the fishermen were told the fish would be measured using a fan tail measurement, when in fact, the law requires a pinched tail measurement.
A fanned tail will not measure as long as a pinched tail.
With all those fish available right at 18" +/-. .this fanned tail rule was bound to cause problems.
Fish that were just under 18" with a fanned tail would break the mark with a squeezed tail.
The tournament rules have to jive with the law.
Unless, I totally misread what I read, earlier in this post, it is pretty plain where the problem arose from, and it was the PWT rules.
(If I am wrong, I apologize, because I miss understood).

[jigemup]

Just think if you would have checked your fish in the boat we would not have these problems now.

[Resident]

Chris
You are right this warden was out to get someone.I was told that this warden said he wan'td to get these pro's. This lyman county DNR is that way, his goal is to arrest anyone he can.They also had a game official in street clothes there.
You had a bad deal Chris
good luck on you future tourneys.

[FISH 24 7]

Are you at liberty to divulge the stance of the PWT in this whole mess? I'd be curious to see why in the world they would suggest a fan-tail measurement versus the pinched-tail standard in SD. I'm anxious to see how this is resolved.

You did the sport and Team Stizo a huge favor by acting in the manner you did. Continued success.


Mark Gilbertson
NPAA #556

[Actually]

Actually, they were using a fan of a pinched tailed. Some fished measured longer using the PWT way than the SD way.

[Chris Bahl]

Mark

I don't think it would right for me to divuldge the PWT's response this far. I am hoping it is a premature stance to their final position. However, I will say I was quite disappointed in the letter I received yesterday. I did respond and I believe I will hear bac from them today or tomorrow.

As for the method of measurement. Jim Kalkofen stated in the rules meeting that the PWT would be measuring that particular event with a "fanned" tail. I received a call from a woman in Chamberlain who video taped the rules meeting and is suppose to be forward me a copy. She said that without a doubt that was the statement and that there was no mention of a "pinched" tail measurement. When you bring competitors in from all over the United States and Canada it is very important that you are clear and definitive on the rules before competition. That is why you have a "rules meeting" before the event and go over all of the rules. Written rules are open to interpretation. Jim gave an official interpretation for that event and we all followed it.

This case reminds me a famous Olympic case this past summer. Greco-Roman wrestler Matt Lindland was defeated by Keith Siracki (sp) in the final Olympic Trials. Matt filed a protest claiming Keith used an illegal move for the winning score. Matt's protest was denided twice by USA Wrestling. Eventually this case went to Federal Court where a judge eventually placed Matt on the Olympic Team and he eventually won the Silver in Sydney. The court did not care about the score or the move in question. The court determined that Matt was denided his right to be heard and "Due Process." This isn't the first time this had happened in sports and is the very reason every organized sports organinzation in the world has a "Competition", "Rules", and/or "Protest" Committee. Unfortuantly, I believe the PWT and its officials are oblivious to the rest of the sporting world, the precendence that have been set, and the standards of competition that have been set.

I will post any final position that I receive. I will keep you all posted.

Thanks for the support!

Chris

[Hawgeye]

Unfortunately, in most situations, at least in Minnesota, the DNR officials could even confisgate your tow vehicle if you are poaching. I understand that poaching includes 'any' taking of game by illegal means or fish that are not open for the season. If they decide that they want to take all the fish, I suppose they have the jurisdiction to do so.

Do I think what happened is right? Absolutely not. If the PWT measures with a fan tail and the state uses a pinched tail, It is still the responsibility of the fisherman, pro or not, to follow state regulations.

Even so, the PWT should not have disqualified him for following their rules. I am sure that there is a clause in the tournament handbook that states 'fisherman will be disqualified if they break any laws on the particular water being fished', but if that is the case, the PWT should disqualify the entire tournament and refund all entry fees if they were in error in writing their rules that do not coincide with the local regulations......

I personally have gained a great deal of respect for how Chris has handled himself and lost a great deal of respect for the PWT for how they have handled themselves.

[NPAA Response]

The NPAA has had numerous calls and emails on this topic. The NPAA is concerned anytime a situation such as this arises. We have been watching things unfold. We have done research on the issue. I have talked with the South Dakota Game, Fish and Parks. I have talked with the PWT, and I have talked to Chris.

I have been told this and that happened. The NPAA should step in and do something. Right now as it stands, the NPAA has no grounds to stand on. Chris was issued a citation for to many fish over 18 inches. This is the final decision maker. Once the citation was issued, the NPAA, Chris, or the PWT had their hands tied. The PWT or the NPAA cannot overrule on a citation.

What the NPAA can do is look at the situation and try to prevent this from happening again. I think this is everyones view at this time. The main point out of this situatuion is to learn from it. I feel for Chris and I also feel for the PWT. It puts each of them in hard situation.

Everyone needs to step back and look at the situation. Take what you can from situation and learn. We all can do things to make sure it does not happen again.

Charlie Moore, NPAA

[Hawgeye]

Actual SD Resident,

Don't you think you are splitting hairs over what the stupid Game and Fish department is called? I lived in South Dakota for a couple of years and continued to refer to it as DNR as well. That is because I grew up in another state that has a DNR. They are the same entities with different names.

I moved back out of SD just for many of the reasons posted above. Lets not start something over semantics...give it a rest!

[Chris Bahl]

I responded once to this, but it somehow got "lost" when I posted. So if the other pops up, sorry for the dupilication.

Charlie

Your statement is too superficial. The South Dakota Game, Fish and Parks made their judgement call and wrote me a ticket. The PWT Tournament Director Mark Dorn to this day has never seen nor measured the fish in question, thus never made a ruling. The PWT's ruling is separate to that of the SD G, F & P. The PWT should never put themselves in a situation where they are liable for the interpretation of one individual outside of their organization. The SD G, F & P is not responsible for the PWT and its competitors and vice versa. The PWT should have made its own ruling outside of that of the SD G, F & P, which could have been different.

Could you imagine if every police department in the country went out on the ice of a hockey game and arrested two players fighting for "assault and battery?" What if every police department in this country was permitted to go onto a playing field of organized sport in their city a issue citations and make arrest purely on their interpretations of local laws. This applies to football, basketball, baseball, auto-racing, WWF Wrestling, Ultimate Fighting, etc. The fact of the matter is, precedence have been set for organized sport in this country. It is the responsibility of the organizers of sporting events to govern their event in a consistent and fair manner.

If we were to look at this situation from a myopic point of view we would only be selling ourselves and our sport short. Game and parks officials across this country do not run our tournaments and should not be given the opportunity to make judgements that influence the outcome of these events. When was the last time you witnessed police standing on the sidelines of a football game looking for an "assault", or a state patrolman running radar at a NASCAR event? I have two issues, one with the SD G, F & P and one with the PWT. I have seperated them as they are completely separate. I will have "Due Process" with the SD G, F & P in court. I am looking for the same opportunity with the PWT.

Chris Bahl

[Backwater Eddy]

A very, very good point Chris!

Backwater Eddy

[Hans]

Chris,

I applaud you for your even handed and reasoned approach to this situation, and the I followed your reasoning until I got to this sentence:

-----
"Game and parks officials across this country do not run
our tournaments and should not be given the opportunity
to make judgements that influence the outcome of these
events."
-----

It comes across like tournament participants are somehow "exempt" from DNR (or whatever they're called in SD) scrutiny. Are you suggesting that the DNR should not be allowed to examine our livewells in a tournament, and should not be allowed to enforce bag and slot limits?

Maybe that's not what you meant, but that's how it "reads".

Hans

[Eyez]

How could that be? The standard SD GF&P measurement is to always make a fish as long as possible by pinching the tail.


Eyez

[Skis]

Boats are like cars. I just bought a new boat, motor & trailer in South Dakota 3 weeks ago and live in Iowa. Because the boat is transferring ownership, I still have not received the titlework. I was given a dealer registration that expires 1 month from the date of purchase.

[800proX]

chris - first of all i aplaud you and your dignity through all this and want to let you know most all of us are proud on how you are conducting yourself throught this matter. it would be very easy to fly off the handle and point fingers, and for that am glad to call you a walleye fishing peer.

but i also have to mention, since we fish tourneys on PUBLIC waters, we have to abide by those laws. NASCAR, NHL, and all those other sports you mentioned are held in a privately owned arena, track, etc... and therefore have set forth their own governing body by which the participants must abide by. remember when marty mcsorly was jailed for his hit on donald brashear in canada, and the police stepped in and the ensuing controvery that was involved. since we are not even close to having our own PRIVATE waters to fish, it is up to us to always factor in the set of laws on that particular lake, river, etc...

once again, you are doing yourself proud, but let us all not forget we are just civilians, in a public water, competeting against our peers, not the DNR or the sactioning body that is holding an event.

jeff

[Dave in Mpls]

Charlie-

Perhaps the NPAA should rethink that response and take a position. I know of many, including myself, that await the outcome of this situation and the positions taken by the SD G&F, PWT, AND THE NPAA. I truely feel that if the NPAA does not take a position on this matter, the association can not be of much use to tournament anglers.

Regards

[Chris Bahl]

Jeff and Hans

Great points. I do not believe that DNR officials should not be able to inspect our livewells. I believe that they should do their jobs. However, there needs to be seperations between the DNR and/or Game and Parks and tournament organizers when it comes to interpretations and rules. Each need to be accountable and responsible for their own actions.

As to your point of NHL and NASCAR events being held in "private" arena's, this is not acurate. Many professional sports are held in city and state owned stadiums and arenas. Almost all college, high school, and youth sports are held on public ground. This is why precendence have been set.

Who knows, this may make it all the way to the Supreme Court. I sure hope not. I hope that we as tournament anglers can resolve our own issues.

Thanks again for the support guys. Great input!!! We don't have to agree to have wholesome, productive conversation. I applaud you.

Chris Bahl

[Well]

All I know is that I was in a boat during the tournament where the fish was legal by SD standards, but if the fish was fanned while the tail was pinched it would have been measured as over 18" by the PWT judge.

[Yah, Again]

All the more reason to just simply go by the state laws.
The measureing has to comply with the state laws, there is no alternative.
Why complicate a simple , universal, legal method of measuring a fish?

Confuscious say.."Man with one clock knows what time it is. Man with 2 clocks is never sure."

Measure them one way, the way the law says to.

[Yankee]

Pinching the tail and then fanning it back and forth is the universal, pinched tail measureing method.
Thanks for clearing that up.

[Yah Missunderstood.]

Sounds like they were doing it the usual way...pinching the tail, and then fanning it back and forth on the measuring device.
Yah, I did not understand.
Yah, I apologize.

[FJH1]

Get real Charlie. Saying your hands are tied is a cheap way of washing your hands of the situation. Saying you will learn from this so it doesn't happen again is weak. It shouldn't have happened in the first place. If the NPAA is accepting major money from the professional anglers in terms of dues don't they deserve to be represented by you at a tournament? In other words, if some lame brain at the PWT made the decision to override state rules of fish measuring methods why didn't the NPAA step in and say "it is the opinion of the NPAA that this could put our anglers at risk and we will hereby inform our anglers of the risks..." Take a stand, dont crawl under the covers.

FJH

[I remember this much]

Mark Dorn always gives the following statment:
Walleyes will be measured in accordance with American Fisheries Society standards.

As to exactly what that is I am not certain, I believe it to be mouth closed and tail fanned and/or squeezed.

[EyeJacker]

The PWT contest at Chamberlain, SD seems to be secondary to the main event. It would appear that the highly controversial DNR measurment(evidently no longer verifiable) varied from the "official" measurment by something in the neighborhood of the diameter of a hair. The question that begs to be asked is why would a DNR official take issue with something as minute as this at a time like this? There appears to be another contest being waged here. What is their message, I do not believe it is subliminal. Pehaps the organizers did not express the proper "Adulation to the Magi"

Jack

[Eyez]

Agreed. This is an opportunity for the NPAA to step up and be heard. I think the NPAA should have an opinion about this. I don't necessarily think that they should automatically defend Chris, but that they should investigate the situation, and make an objective conclusion, and then let their position be known.

The way things are now, there is the PWT, the GF&P and the fisherman, all looking out for themselves. Of those groups, the fisherman are the ones that have the least clout, even though none of this would take place without them. Not to say that the PWT isn't interested in what's best for the anglers, but they obviously won't voice an opinion contrary to what the GF&P says. That would be suicide. The NPAA has the opportunity to be independent representation for both the PWT and the anglers in a situation like this. I think that it would be very valuable for them to have an opinion. Even if they side with GF&P (objectivity is the key here), that the citation was appropriate, they need to say something.


Eyez

[Waterfowler]

I have to disagree with you about south dakotan's. You are right, the GF&P is raising prices and they are doing some things I don't agree with. Don't say we are all that way. I have a lot of friends that don't give a crap where you are from. Be conservation minded and curtious to fellow fisherman, that's what we believe in. What the DNR is doing is trying to get rid of the common man. They are pricing things so even the residents have to save forever to take a family hunting or fishing. Don't get on us, MN has the same buttholes who treat us that way.

The fact of the matter, I feel bad for this guy. It sounds like a raw deal, but don't call all of SD(many) prejudice unless you have met us all.

[Markman]

The reason our licenses are higher is our fishing is better on the whole. those fees pay for stocking of our lakes. Waubay lake had 6.9 million walleye placed in it last year alone. Look at Montanas non-resident fishing $10 for 2 days, $45 more for a yearly, and $5 warm water species stamp.

Just food for thought, the #1 Game fish in Nebraska is White Bass.

[eye guy]

Despite what you beleive, I am a resdident....Mr. actual sd resident....

[JonM]

I agree with Jack. It seems pretty obvious this Game Warden had an axe to grind with the tournament fisherman. I'm a believer in accountability. This Game Warden should be accountable just like Chris has been held accountable for his actions. I'd like to know more about his guy's track record.

How a guy can issue the ticket and then toss the evidence is beyond me. I guess there's only a few people that know the real length of the fish which doesn't make this easy to form an opinion.

How much difference in length can pinching the tail make?

Should we really have to throw back anything under 15.5" and over 17.5" assuming we're going to get someone like this to measure our fish?? I don't have a problem doing that if push came to shove, but I definitely don't agree with that. If the law says you can keep an 18" fish, you have every right to do so!! It seems there should be a 1/8" inch warning zone or something to that affect on something that really isn't cut and dry due to changig conditions of the fish. It may be an unwritten rule to not cut it this close but I'm sure plenty of guys weighed fish like Chris' and rightfully so if Chris measured not over 18".

[Nicht]

A fan of a pinched tail? What exactly is that? I am curious too as to why this was not fully explained and why the tourney didnt adopt the SD standard, or change the tourney length to 17 3/4 inches? No problems there then, right? I dont have all the answers, nor am I pointing fingers. Just thinkin to see if we can bring up a remedy for the future. What do you think?

[Scott/NE]

by what standard is white bass the #1 sport fish in Nebraska? Just curious how that decision was made...

[YOU LOSE, PERIOD]

Hear are some observations.

1. I am amazed that most of you guys think Chris Bahl is some kind of "hero" now. He tried to take a fish to the scale that was, or was not legal. Most of you are acting like he did some great thing, that everyone should be impressed with. He did what he was supposed to do(take the blame), quit acting like he is a hero.
2. No one knows wether the fish was legal or not, so you can't debate that. If the fish was over 18" shame on Chris. Contrary to what you think Chris Bahl, tournament fisherman are not above the law. The law is 18". If it was over 18", then the CO did what was right.
3. If the fish was actually under 18", then you got screwed, and I hope everything works out. I hope it goes to court, and you win. Shame on the PWT, and NPAA, for not sticking up for Chris AT THE TIME IT HAPPENED!!! If it was truely under 18",and the CO said it was over, a PWT organizer should have been there right away to make documentation for Chris that the fish was legal. Sounds like the PWT and NPAA basically said, "Oh Well", right there when it happened.
4. If the fish measured with a pinched tail was over 18", but under 18" with it fanned, then once again, shame on the PWT for using rules different than the state game laws.
5. If the fish was truely legal, I don't think the CO would do that infront of all those people. It just doesn't make sense. PWT, NPAA, and other tournament anglers would have come to his aid. I think it comes down to the fanned tail thing. The fish was over 18" the way the CO measured it. The fish was under, the way Chris Bahl measured it. Regardless of how the PWT tells it's participants to measure their fish, the LAW RULES OUT! It doesn't matter how much money was involved, or that it was a tournament. If the fish, measured the "legal" way, was over the 18" limit, you LOSE! PERIOD! OVER! The only blame I see is with the PWT, and Chris Bahl. Chris Bahl knew the correct way to measure the fish. He chose not to. He obviosly debated on whether or not to take the fish to scale. He knew what the penallty would be if he was wrong. He decided it was worth the risk. He lost. That is not an act of being a hero.

[Scott/NE]

Why is it that everyone feels a generalization means that every individual is being blamed?

Try this out: is it a generalization? Yes. Are you specifically being blamed, Mike? No. Is it a fair generalization? Well, considering the pheasant restrictions passed somehow, i'm guessing that there's something of a majority in favor of it, so it very likely is an accurate generalization. Do you need to lighten up? ##### Yes.

Hi my name is,

Scott

[EyeJacker]

With all due respect, what ever happened to innocent 'til proven guilty? One need not be a hero to stand up to an apparent misjustice. You are right on one count "no one will ever know" therefore he is innocent until proven otherwise the way I see it.
Jack

[Scott/NE]

uhhhh, sure. Oh, that's right he did and the problem still occured. Took care of that arg. easy enough.

[Scott/NE]

And, somehow his statements would all be voided if he were from another area? ...i think not.

(not actually a SD resident here, i hope that doesn't mean i can't have a point).

[ms. eye]

I think your response is a little harsh. I do not believe anybody is trying to make Chris out to be a hero, they are just impressed that someone is finally standing up for what they believe is right. There are to many people out there that just take everything in stride and brush "wrong" under the rug. There have been numerous people, other pros included, that have said the same happened to them. If they had made a stand maybe the same thing would not be happening time and time again. As for if the fish was over or under 18", Do you truely think that Chris would have tried to weigh a fish that was over 18" when he new he had at least 3 lbs. on the rest of the field. Give him some credit here. He obviously has more intellegence than that.

[Scott/NE]

ok, so no one know's what happened, that means it cant be debated? #####, i always thought that if the truth were known that would tend to limit debatability...

Not only that, this seems to be at the heart of the issue. No one know's if the fish were legal or not because the NRD officer refused to even let another officer measure a fish that was questionable either way.

Additionally, no one seems to be saying tournament fisherman are exempt from the laws. The discussion at hand seems more focused on the process of what occured as well as what could/should have occured.

You need some conviction. You don't seem to adapt a concrete position. Correct me if i'm wrong, but at different points in your post, you hope for different things to happen depending on what the truth is (which you say isn't even worth debating...). In fact, you pretty much declare that if chris is right, you hope it goes to court and he's vindicated, but that if he's wrong, ##### him. I don't know what good this is.
I am uncertain how you define a hero, but i hope it doesn't involve taking a side conditionally depending on who's right.

[GORD]

Would it be possible in future to have independant judges and just have the DNR guys as witnesses. That might keep those hot dogs involved, but at a safe distance.

[EyeJacker]

Well said. I believe that admiration, sympathy and support are being misconstrued as hero worship by some. It takes courage to take a position on your convictions. (no pun intended):-)

Jack

[LOSE]

He was found guilty, when the fish was measured, by the SDF&G officer.

[Lose]

Yes I do believe that he was "pushing the limit". He chose to measure the wrong way. Therefore it is his fault.

[kuip]

As a former S Dakota State Trooper, I was never required nor did I ever have another officer verify a radar reading before writing a ticket for speeding. So what is the big deal aboat having another GF&P official present when the officer measured the fish or there to verify. This is a moot point in my opinion.
It does sound to me that Chris has a very good case if all these witnesses did in fact see the exact measurement of the fish when the officer measured it. If they did not see the measurement then they can only testify to the conduct of the officer, but they will not be able to say the fish was legal size. The officer souds like a piece of work to me, but we have them in all professions. Good Luck Chris

[Lose]

I don't understand why Chris needs sympathy? This is his job! He took a risk that is part of his job. I don't think Chris was the only angler who had to make that judgement call. He decided to take a risk, and it didn't work out the way he wanted. We should praising the anglers that made the RIGHT choice, not giving sympathy to Chris because he made the wrong one. Sympathy is felt for someone who loses a loved one or such, not because someone doesn't win a game.

[but]

your radar reading reading is ojective (supposedly) and this sounded like a sbjective measurement. you didn't throw your radar gun out after every ticket did you?

[Lose]

Yes my position depends upon who is right. Why wouldn't it? Here is my "concrete" position. If he is right, I hope he wins in court. If he is wrong, he new the consequences, and got what he knew could happen. It just sounds as though he is asking for more than what than what the law allows.

[wally watcher]

Lose, Who is looking for sympathy? I detect a bit of sarcasm in your post. Chris is just trying to better our sport. If you do not agree with his stance....fine. But do not attack him. Do you even know him? Why don't you do the right thing and post in a constructive way.

[kuip]

just making the point that the officer does not need another to verify what he has seen. I myself do not understand why he threw the fish away. I would think that it would be evidence. If I took beer away from kids, the beer would be kept as evidence until the case was resolved.

[Lose]

I am not attacking Chris. I am just arguing the other side. He made a mistake. That is all I am saying. I am not saying he is a bad person, or anything like that. From what I am reading it sounds like he is a terrific person. I just don't agree with him or some of you. I am not the only one who feels this way. Read the other post about this subject. I am sorry if I am just telling it like I see it, maybe it is a little too agressive for some of you. I have no problem with the views that are opposite mine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Just because I am going against what everyone else thinks, doesn't mean I am a Chris hater. I believe that the law, is the law. Would a crappie fisherman in a john boat get his "due process"?

[Wally Watcher]

Your opinion is welcomed, your tone is questioned. A crappie fisherman in a jon boat is entitled to "due process," as are all of us. No entity private or public has the right to show such gross negligence in judgement that effects a persons rights without due process. That is my impression of what this subject is about. Not about any individual or entity.

[Scott Richardson]

I wasn't there so I have no idea what length the fish was and neither does anyone else but the pro, his amateur and the cop. If the angler is right, the amateur should be able to back him up in court, no problem. There are too many posts here for me to determine if the amateur in the boat that day has voiced an opinion.

Regardless, I don't understand why the cop or PWT or NPAA are taking it on the chin here. PWT certainly would have been on thin ice trying to step in and second guess a cop. They have no legal standing to do so. What the cop says goes at the time. NPAA would be even more pressed to get involved this long after the tournament.

I won't make any friends saying this, but the police officer was doing his job. This was a judgement call and that's what he is paid to do. They make judges to decide if he is right or not. Thank God we live in a country where a police officer's word is not final. Good luck in court. May the truth win out whatever it is.

I am a little taken aback by the negativity shown here. It seems very mean spirited. If the angler wants the benefit of the doubt, the cop should get the same consideration. The judge and other witnesses will find the truth, and we can disagree without being disagreeable outside the courtroom.

There would be no chance to weigh the other fish in the basket after one was deemed illegal. The angler is DQ'ed for the day, at least that's my understanding of the PWT rules. Pros know that's the risk of bringing fish close to the slot to the scales. With so much riding on it, why is there any confusion about the way the measurement is done? At PWT rules meetings _ in fact, any tournament circuit I have attended _ the method has always been the same _ pinch the tail and sweep it back and forth. The longest measurement is the one taken.

Regardless of how long the fish was or wasn't, why a pro would walk away and leave two amateurs without a ride and lose two days' weight toward the final standings at the end of the year certainly seems a valid question. The amateurs didn't cause the controversy. They should not get caught in the crossfire. Maybe there should be a rule that a pro who withdraws solely for personal reasons of this sort absent a valid family or business emergency must refund the pro-rated entries of the amateurs who lost out. Certainly, the PWT should not be liable if someone merely quits.

I really don't mind paying out-of-state prices for licenses. None of them seem too out of line considering the cost to provide the terrific fishing available in so many states. And people who fish in my state from elsewhere must do the same. The cost of a license is only a fraction of the overall cost of a fishing trip.

Have a great day, and may all your tournaments go smoothly.

[EyeJacker]

Ever hear of an abuse of power? It does happen on ocassion. I am not saying that happened here, however, I am not ruling out the possibilty or at the very least an error in juggement. Of course when the evidence is eliminated who can make such a determination?
It appears, in reading the posts, that witnesses do not agree that the fish was illegal even after the officers pinched tail measurement. If, indeed, it was that close, why not have it verified by another official already present? Sounds a bit pompous to me!

Jack

[EyeJacker]

Does not appear to me that Chris has tried to play the hero role for one nanosecond. He has much more the profile of the victim. But then the law, is the law, is the law, true? Reminds me of a touching 18(I guess she was a few years older)incident that unfolded in front of the nation not so long ago. So here we are again, the law says the walleye IS illegal, regardless of what the other witnesses thought they saw! Another case of "it depends on what the meaning of is, is"?
Just where is this "Blue Dress" now? My guess is that it swims near the bottom of Lake Francis Case. Case Dismissed?

Jack

[EyeJacker]

Ah, a man with perception. Lots of opinions being expressed herein, many lacking that quality!

Jack

[PWT Statement]

We need a statement from the PWT!!!!!!!!!!!