Will a 2nd Battery Cure This?

[FJH1]

I have a 2000 Lund 1800 Pro V se with a 175 efi Merc. While fishing a tournament this past weekend my front depth finder went into auto shut-off because it detected voltage less that 10.9 volts. This usually happens when one of my livewells kicks in (it's that initial start-up draw that drops the voltage I think). This happened a couple of times last season and I put in a new starting battery this spring. However, this didn't cure the problem. Here is what is running off of the starting battery on a given tournament day: 175efi start, trim/tilt, Panther jack lift, (2) Bottom Line finders with GPS, (2) livewells and bilge. I've checked the "voltage numbers" through my Bottom Line NCC 5300 while running and it's showing something like 13.5 volts to 13.9 volts so I don't think I have a problem with the battery being charged through the engine. All of my batteries (2 trolling motor and 1 starting) are charged through a Guest 2623 on-board charger so I'm pretty sure they are fully charged when I hit the water. Am I demanding too much from my starting battery to run everything? I've measured the compartment size and I have plenty of room to install a 2nd battery to run parallel with the starting battery. Should installing a 2nd battery be my next step? Sorry for the long post. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Best Regards,

FJH

[PJM]

FJH1

I have had the same problem and it started severl years back with a 1775 Pro V with a 60hp. I was in Canada out in the middle of no-ware when the battery was almost dead I had more draw on the battery then the battery could handle. The 60hp only had a 7amp charger so I was not putting alot back in to the battery. What I did is put in a 31 series deep cycle and that solved the problem. Since then every boat I have owned I was put a 31series battery in as my cranking battery except for my newest boat which is a 2025 Lund with a 225 Yamaha. The 225hp has a duel charging system so the cranking battery only starts the motor. I again put in a 31 series to run all of my extras so I have two batteries back there. As far as putting in two batteries, I would do it but you might want to think about a bigger battery. I hope this helps.................................

[PWaldow123]

I too had this problem and solved it by adding another battery in parallel with my starting battery. It didn't happen all the time but after a long evening of night fishing or such it just got to be too many things running off of the starting battery.

[Mr T]

FJH1,
I've had a similar problem except that an alarm goes off on my fish finder, a Garmin 240. The way my battery tray is placed I don't have room for a series 31 in place of my series 24. So I added another battery in parallel. Fixed the problem. I run now with 4 total batteries. Two for cranking and electronics. Two for my electric motor.

[Link]

Can you tell me more about the series 31 vs the series 21??? I have purchased several batteries over the years (for both starting and bigger deep cycles for trolling) but have not heard the series 31 terminology before. I call this ignorance. But its time for that to end. Thanks Link

[David Anderson]

Ditto,

Get rid of the starting battery. First of all they are not designed for continuous amp draw. Pumps, lights, and electronics run all the time. Get at least a series 27 or larger 31 deep cycle and replace the starting battery. It will start the motor just fine and give you that long haul power. Personally I would not recommend a second starting battery in parallel. You essentially have the same problem long term. Starting batteries are for short time, high current applications. It will work, but IMHO why complicate the problem. The only time I run out of power now is when I forget to plug in the charger.

[PJM]

Batteries are grouped in sizes. 24,27,31 ect. The bigger the number the more reserve power because they have more plates. If anyone else wants to comment on this it would be appreciated. If you go to a 31 series battery you will need a bigger battery tray or cut one side out. Most boats use 31 series trays for the trolling motor batteries and a 27 size tray for the cranking battery. Let's face it if you are on the lake all day and you go to start your motor, "CLICK" in not a good sound. Having more reserve power is nice.

[czy42strokes]

I switched years ago to the starting/deep cycle battery because of the starting battery being treated like a deep cycle by its use running all onboard electronics. I was glad to see the manufacturers finally address this problem as a deep cycle battery alone is not designed to handle the CCA that a starting battery does. Either route you decide will work but make sure they are of the starting/deep cycle variety.

[chadk66]

One easy fix that just might work is run heavier wire from battery to the locator. If the locator is in the bow, thats a long way to run that light guage wire. You can loose amps over that distance I believe. There must be some electrical experts on this board, what is the possiblity of this happening.

[Adam KP]

Lund runs some pretty heavy guage marine wire to the front already for accessories compared to the draw. I think the problem is using a starting battery to perform a mostly deep cycle function.

An earlier reply was to use a dual purpose Cranking/Deep Cycle Battery. I have a small Lund and prefer to use only one battery because of limited storage and weight. I bought a group 27 dual purpose and it starts my 4 stroke, runs my trolling motor, two finders, live well, stereo, and lights. I've run my troller, finders, and stereo for hours and still have the juice to start the motor.

I wouldn't ADD a battery, just replace the one you have. A group 27 should be more than enough.

[Grey Wolf]

I have heard varying opinions on the use of a deep cycle battery for a starting/accessory battery. On my last boat, I switched to a series 31 deep cycle for start/accessory, I was not convinced that solved my problem. People said that that battery couldn't handle being constanly charged by my motor. Although potentially my problem was that the 70 HP Evinrude didn't have the amps to charge that battery, I don't know. My new boat has a 125 Merc, and I am not sure what he alternator puts out, but with dual livewells and recirc pumps, potentially I will have a problem again. I have often though about trying to seperate the power leads for all my accessories and hooking htem up to my trolling batteries, does anyone have any thoughts on that?

[David Anderson]

The comment on Starting/deepcycle combination is correct. These batteries are designed to handle the constant charge put on them by the motor. Your concern however with your alternator sufficiently charging your battery is an issue. Your 70 probably had a 20 amp and your 125 may have a 25 amp alternator. These are rated at high RPM's and to get a full charge into a discharged battery would take a over 4 hours of WOT running. At trolling speed the alternator may be putting out only a few amps at best. You can never count on simply charging your trolling motor batteries and letting the outboard keep the charge up the accessory battery. You will eventually lose that battle. Make sure that you charge your starting battery just as you do the trolling motor battery and the Starting/deepcyle will never let you down. I run a Video Sonar unit that draws 2 amps continuous. Add in 2 livewell pumps going, lights, and the only time I ran short is when I forgot to charge. This is where the 3 bank onboard chargers really shine.
I would not put anything on your trolling motor batteries. Opens up a new set of problems.

[Grey Wolf]

Thanks for the input. That is one thing that I have done differently with this boat over my last. I bought a Guest 2623 (I think that's the model # it's a 10/10/3). Have yet to install it, but plan having it installed before MN opener next week. Sounds like I should go buy a start/charge battery as well.

[D189]

This is a timely thread. I had the same problem Saturday. My Triton has a three bank charger. I left in the morning with a full charge on all three batteries. Ran the trolling motor alot and had one live well on auto recirculate for the minnows. Also ran two X-65s. At the end of the day the 175 EFI wouldn't start- no juice. Would a series 31 battery solve my problem? Any advice would be welcome. Thanks.
D189

[David Anderson]

Yes. The difference between a starting battery and a series 31 is about $30.00. Cheap insurance for a long day on the water. I've been there a few times. Once where I could transfer the trolling motor battery and start. Once when the trolling motor batteries were done, starting battery completely drained and I am pull starting my 75 in the middle of Mille Lacs, 4 foot rollers. In went the onboard charger, in went a deep cycle for the start/accesories, out went the problems.

[Adam KP]

It depends on what kind of batteries you have (deep cycle, cranking or car)and what is hooked up to each of those 3 batteries. Are you using 1 or 2 just for the trolling motor? Does your outboard have it's own battery? Three application specific, properly wired and distributed batteries that are fully charged should not leave you dead in the water. Especially if your motor is recharging the one that is going to start it. I spent another 6 hours on the water last night, electric trolling most of the time, nav lights on, stereo and both finders on, live well on auto, and didn't use more than half the charge on my one and only group 27, MARINE deep cycle/starting battery. That's according to, my (VERY IMPORTANT TOOL) battery meter. My motor poured 15 amps into it on the return trip and I put it on 2 amp trickle when I got home. By 3:00 this afternoon it will be good to go.

[FJH1]

Based upon the responses it looks pretty unanimous in favor of getting a series 27 or 31 deep-cycle/starting battery. I believe that I have plenty of room for a series 31 so I think I'll go this route. Again, thanks everyone for your valuable comments.

Best Regards,

FJH

[Wal-lies]

I recently had the same problem and decided to put a larger battery in my boat. I wish I would have been armed with all the info you now have! I decided on a series 29 made by Marinecraft (motorcraft). I bought this battery for several reasons. 1) It has an MCA of 825. I assumed the higher the better. 2) This was the biggest factor, It has a reserve capacity of 210 minutes. With the problem I was having it seemed to me that reserve capacity was the key. 3) I paid $79.00 for this new battery.

After looking at my trusty Bass Pro and Cabelas catalogs The MCA and reserve numbers seemed very much in line with batteries costing much more. If you see a Yar-craft out on Erie with a guy tryin to pull start his 200 merc. while hitting his battery with a hammer you'll know it didnt work!

Todd

[REW]

FJH,
The comments are all correct.
Go with the group 31 and you will have a considerable reserve over what you have now.

I would also suggest the following:
Make a permenant jumper system between your starting and trolling motor batteries.

Make up a jumper wire of 6 or 4 gauge wire to go between your starting battery negative terminal and one of your trolling motor negative terminals. Leave this jumper permenantly connected.

Maie up another jumper - preferably another color - like red - to go between the postive of your starting battery, and the postive terminal of the same trolling motor battery.

If the trolling motor battery and starting battery are close together - simply loop the jumper back on itself and bolt it to either the starting or trolling motor battery plus terminaal (which ever is most convenient. )

The idea is to have a convenient jumper system in place - so that if you discharge either the starting or trolling motor battery, you can use the other to get home.

When it comes time to use the jumper, simply disconnect it from the spot that it is jumpered back on itself, and run it to the + terminal of the other battery. After getting home or to your charge station, disconnect the jumper and place it back in its storage location.


If you have a long distance between the starting and trolling motor batteries, simply leave one end of the jumper wire disconnected from the battery. Because this terminal is potentially hot - make some sort of insulated pipe -- like a piece of heater hose - to keep the "live wire from shorting to anything.

I would suggest that you do this, no matter how big or how many batteries you have in the boat. You might never have a need for this jumper, but if you do, you will be very happy at the convenience.

Some folks simply have a pair of auto jumper cables in the boat for this purpose, but they take up room, and then you have to hassle with the clamps etc.

The permanent jumpers simply work a lot better.

Of course the best solution - as far as jumpering is concerned, is to simply have a 1,2,3 battery switch.

These master switches are strong enough to handle the full starting current required by a marine motor.

Take care

REW