More humane crankbaits.

[Mike]

I've been considering the trauma fish caught on multi-treble hook cranks are subjected to, and would appreciate info from others who have modified their cranks for this reason. For example, if I was to go with a single treble off the rear of the plug, instead of having 2 on a shad body and three on a minnow body, what % decrease in hookups might I have to be prepared to accept - if any? If I do go with a single treble, should I increase the hook size by one size? Or, might I be better off to leave the standard setup, and pinch down the barbs?

I'd appreciate any feedback on this topic. I am a 95% catch and release fisherman, and I take our husbandry of this tremendous resource pretty seriously, and if there's one thing that makes me sick, it's seeing a fish badly hooked on a gangful of trebles. It doesn't happen often, but....

[Kevin A]

You've described a nice experiment. Others may or may not answer, but whatever they might offer will have alot of qualifiers (hook sharpness, hook mfg, type of bait, did the crank have added bait i.e a chunk or crawler on the tail hook.....). Perform a tight experiment of this and I'm sure it would be worth an article in some popular press mag or maybe even a scientific journal, if the experiment is structured well enough.

[Fish-on]

That's what filet knives are made for.

We catch and release fanatics have gone way too far.

[steve(IL)]

Out west, guides commonly cut one tine off a treble hook on a spinner and pinch the barbs on the remaining two. When you catch a trout, all it takes is a quick turn of the hook to release the fish. You don't even have to handle 'em. I didn't notice any increase in missed strikes or fish getting off.

I agree about handling fish to be released as quickly and humanely as possible. I'm no PETA whacko - but there is absolutely no justification for causing any more stress than necessary to the fish.

Modify a couple lures and see for yourself. I suspect you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[Greg P.]

I always remove the middle treble hooks on crank baits, leaving only the back set. I have not noticed a great increase in lost fish, or any loss of action on the lures.

Even if I did loose a fish or two, it's worth it to know I can return the large fish and fish which I don't keep to eat.

Greg P.

[Mike]

Nahh....I'm not squeamish, amigo. Just trying to leave as many finny ones for future generations as is possible while still enjoying my fishing time and eating the odd one or two. That makes me squeamish?

What are you saying? Fish mortality rates don't matter, nor are they worth factoring in to how we use this resource?

Progressive attitude you've got there, dude!

[Smitty]

Years ago when I fished a Manitoba lake yearly it was law that you had to pinch the barbs on all hooks. I can't really say that I lost a lot of fish due to it (still have several Shad Raps in my tackle box that way) and the hooks were very easy to remove.
I can also think of at least 1 time with a hook deeply embedded in my thumb when I wished I had pinched the barbs.
As far as removing all but the back hook, I'm wondering if that would impact the action of the lure. I assume they are tuned to run as-is.. Maybe someone out there has tried it and can comment.

[Pooch]

I have cut off tines, removed front sets of trebles, and removed the barbs on all of my cranks. I don't think I have lost over a few fish in years of fishing this way. Very easy to release fish w/o even taking them out of the water.
ALSO... Several years ago my partner put a treble in his hand and we could not move it either way. Lucky we were at a drive in camp that trip so we drove sixty miles back to a medical center to get it out. The barb was caught in a tendon and he lost part of the feeling on that finger. He is a pilot and it cold have cost him dearly. That motivated me to modify everything with a barb. Since then, like most folks who spend time on the water, I have backed out a few shallow hooks from myself, no big deal.
One drawback is that leaches swim off of your jig hook, but this can be cured by putting a cross section slice of plastic worm on the hook after the leech goes on.
I've spent thirty years in the rescue business so "squeamish" isn't part of my day. But common sense is.
Just my bucks worth. Good luck.
Pooch

[EW6]

I have tried many thing and the two that are the best are to pinch down the barbs and increase hook size. Pinching down the barbs helps a lot. Increasing the hook size makes it harder for fish to completely inhale the lures. Also makes it hard for smaller fish to get a lure stuck down their throughts (which usually does a lot of damage).


If you can get away with a single hook such as on spinners do it, but doesn't work too well with most cranks.


P.S. Anything we can do to help the fish is a good thing. And I hope that anyone that has the kill 'em all attitude doesn't fish in my lakes.

[rubberjig]

just use a storm hot-n-tot right out of the box. The stock hooks are so dull that I bet a walleye could suck on it all day and not get hooked.

[Mike]

If barbed treble hooks aren't the best plan for these baits, then why don't the manufacturers use a different hook? If the fishing public didn't want them or if they wanted another type of hook the manufacturers would be putting that type of hook on their product instead, maybe you should voice your concerns with them.

Mike

[Bob G.]

Speaking of HotNTots, what I like to do is to remove both treble hooks and the rear O-ring.
Then I like to attach either a #7 Rosco swivel
onto the belly O-ring, then attach the rear O-ring to the remaining end of the swivel and use a 1/0 siwash hook off that. This is for the small size HotNTot. For the larger sizes, I do the same, but instead of the #7 Rosco, I use a 75# bead chain swivel set up the same way.

With one single hook, I have more solid hookups,
much less hook pullouts as compared to the two trebles and is much easier to release fish as all I need to do is using needle nose pliers, just turn the hook out with a flick of the wrist.

I have been toying with the idea of single hook set ups on stick baits. Maybe someone here has tried and can let us know if that works.

[Methinks-]

Hmmm, interesting points! (pun intended) I too wonder about hurting smaller fish with treble hooks. However, I can't help but wonder about the wacko issue, what with no return e mail and being a non registered user. As for the trebles being there in the first place, they do work. I have also used the siwash hooks on hot n tots and we use them all the time on salmon lures. I also change all my jigging spoon hooks to siwash or octopus style hooks. Better hookups with bigger fish, and big fish don't throw the lure. It is important to remember, we eat fish, at least most of us do and most of us practice what we call selective harvest. Most of us wont release a badly hooked fish. Catch and release nay sayers do not recognize this fact, and refer to catch and release being torture. Before we practiced catch and release/selective harvest/catch,photo,release, the anti's wanted to put or a**es in a sling for killing everything we caught. You cant win when dealing with an anti. As for stress, are we micro managing the issue? The argument about stressing out the fish was basically invented by the anti movement, which makes me wonder about this kind of post.I agree to minimize handling a fish that is to be put back, but this can be as silly as anything, being as no one really knows if a fish has even a resemblance of a cognative thought process, or even if it really feels pain. Does a hook hurt them as much as it may hurt you? I dont think so, big fish eat little fish all the time. Did you ever see the spines on a perch or bluegill? Yet walleyes and pike still eat them. I have seen their behavior in tanks and if a predator gets a perch lodged in the mouth, they exhale it and try again, not the usual reaction to pain. Sorry for the super long post, but I still think as arule we do the uttmost to keep fish and fishing healthy, change a few hooks and see what happens, then let us know. Keep fishing fun and keep fishing alive.

[Methinks, P.S.-]

P.S. I posted this without an email qand so on just like the original poster. Maybe if he does, I will. Take your kids fishing, and have fun.

[Mike]

I am NOT some dewy-eyed cloud gazer in a righteous snit over the "pain" fish feel. All I am concerned about is the damage multiple trebles can do to a limited resource like fish. I am concerned that these gang treble setups exist only to increase the fisherman's % hookup rate at the expense of increased fish mortality - particularly smaller fish below slot limits and/or trophy fish and/or rough fish.

To me, it is illogical - not "immoral" - for any fisherman to refuse to consider alternative setups that reduce the POTENTIAL for increased mortality of our catches. It defies common sense, if we are collectively aware of the need to protect our fisheries' future vitality.

Why not try it out? Why not see if it does indeed reduce "incidental catch" mortality rates? I'm not on any morality rant...I just think it makes a lot of sense for us all to at least TRY alternative setups that clearly offer less destructive potential than conventional multi-gang treble setups.

Nobody questions that fish are delicate critters, and all of us are more than aware of the need to very carefully handle them prior to release. If we accept that as common sense, why is it such a leap of faith to believe that nine hooks imbedded in a fish's mouth/throat are no more traumatic than one or two? It seems to me that there is a logical inconsistency here...

[Tom (Mich)]

While I believe you're sincere in what you say, and your intentions appear honorable, I believe discussions such as these are best had in person, rather than documented like this in a public forum. I'm not being PC, but a thread like this could provide some decent ammo for the other side.

[stewart]

I'm glad I live in Canada where the animal rights movement hasn't really arrived, yet. It seems a shame that people feel that a sensible topic like this one should be censored out of fear of what the anti's might think.

[Fin Addict]

Ontario spring bear season strike a cord? Don't kid yourself, they hug those trees so tight, you might not have seen them. Heard a PETA member on the radio the other day describling how to gently brush off a mosquito as they have every right to live too. How do they justify eating the bacteria on their veggies, after all they are animals with rights too!

[Methinks, some more]

Mike, we share alot of the same concerns. Please re read my post. I am only questioning if we are really over thinking the issue a bit. I too use single hoks in some aplications, and will use them whenever I can. I know for a fact, with bigger fish, they are less likely to throw the bait if I have a siwash or some such hook over the standard treble. I want the highest hook up ratio possible with a lure. Not just in a tournament, but anytime, solid hook sets do less damage to fish than multiple weak ones. A solid hookup in one point with one hook is better all the way around, for the angler, for the fish and for ease of removal. I am just as curious if many or any have tried it, and on what lures?

[stewart]

Good point, and thanks for breaking me out of my own little world.

I still think the original post is sensible though. If there was a way to maintain hook-up rates while decreasing the chance of hurting the ones we intend to let go I'd be interested in hearing it.

[twogun]

You have a good point and I would be in favor of "saving the fish from to many hooks" if I didn't have any fish shake off lures,didn'th have hooks pull out half way to the boat, if it incresed my hookups, did not bend or break hooks on fish. I can't remember in the past 10 years ever having a mortality from to many hooks. You can kill a fish with 1 hook.Also In my life have never had all "nine hooks" imbeded in anything but a net. Think about it, all nine hooks imbeded in or on a fish, man that's a hook set. I want all the hooks I can use to have fun fishing. Trout and salmon that is a different story, they can bleed easily. Like I said sounds good if it would work for me. I would hate to loose a state record walleye because I didn't have enough hooks.

[DEADEYE NICK]

I THINK THIS WHOLE THING IS OUT OF CONTROL.
IF A FISH DIES AS A RESULT OF MY TREBLES IT WILL NOT GO TO WASTE , A PREDITOR SUCH AS A FOX, RACCOON,ETC. WILL LIKLEY BENEFIT.THESE FISH HAVE BEEN HERE LONG BEFORE US AND I HARDLY THINK THAT TOO MANY HOOKS ARE GOING TO DRIVE THEM TO EXTINCTION!

[Capt. Hook]

Less hooks for fishing? I don't think so! I myself have used barbless hooks in Canada. Fish have the Pike, Tigermusky, disease, water levels, oxygen and yes Man. When fisherman get in big numbers on rivers and lakes they are hurting the resorce. All these things kill more fish then a couple of crankbait hooks. If your so worried about killing fish with hooks, it can happen with a single barblees hook. This post is for guy who should use a feather to fish, maybe you can catch something on that.

[TED]

Mike, I do not think the use of hooks for fishing is a bad thing. Capt. Hook said some things that are true. It sounds like everytime you went fishing you killed fish with regular store bought hooks, well what were you doing to have so many mortalities? Maybe your "illogical" ways are the cause.

[Sandy]

Hello Mike, I doubt if you would have hookups the way you intend to fish. Do you use live bait? What about the "trauma" you would cause hooking a minnow or nightcrawler? Do you just use crankbaits? Why would you fish, because if you were to catch something it would have some "illogical trauma" wouldn't it?

[stewart]

This is my last foray into this topic,and the only reason I'm responding is becauase it's already at the top of the page anyways.

It's not so much that the hooks might cause trauma, but that a fish caught with a lure sporting several sets of trebles will most likely take longer to release. More hooks to take out of the fish, and those that are free require the angler to be more careful, may tangle in the net, etc.

For the record I use lures with lots of trebles, and I keep the fish that I deem unreleasable because a walleye dinner is one of the reasons I go out. However,I appreciate the development of things like cirle hooks that allow us to make a conscious choice about what we keep without sacrificing efficiency(and maybe improving it).

Aren't we all readers of this page because we want to find out if there are better ways of doing things?

My 2 cents.

[Nofish]

My Turn,

Hey Stewart, your posts, and several others, including the original one from Mike have some very good points.

I agree that there is probably more damage done to an otherwise releasable fish, if there are multiple hook wounds.

However, I think it is more important for us as anglers to learn how to handle fish in the first place, and know how to minimize the dangers to the fish.

I have seen so many fish rough handled, dropped, hooks just wrenched out of a fish's mouth, allowed to flop around on a hot carpeted floor in 90 degree temps, all to be thrown back in the lake/river like a log.:o Hooks are just part of the picture.

I think it is incumbent upon all of us as sportsmen to learn how to effectively mimimize any potential abuse to the fish.:-)

Happy Easter.........R

[5-speed]

If you are that worried about killing or hurting fish the best advise i can give you is to sell it all and stop going out fishing, your worries will be over, and then don't try and stop me from changing my mind about fishing

[Slipbobber]

Capt. Hook- even Mike knows that plucking a feather from a poor defenseless bird causes pain and undue stress. MY MY What were you thinking of!!!! :D ><)))">

[anti-watch]

Get off our board anti!