What's the future of Outboards, 4 stroke or DFI?

[Mr T]

I'm interested in what everyone out there thinks on this subject. What will the next 10 years bring? More DFI's or more 4 strokes in the over 100 H.P. engines? I already believe smaller H.P. engines and kickers are all going to 4 stroke. What about the weight issues with 4 strokes? Are transoms strong enough to handle 500 pound motors over a lot of road miles? Do you guys think the EPA will further crack down on emissions? Are the FEDS really just trying to eliminate outboards all together? What do you think? I'm not sure what I do yet. I know one thing for sure. All this new DFI stuff is far from being perfected. And far from being cheap!

[Tom P]

The "LIBERALS" are slowly chipping away at anything with an internal combustion engine. They ARE and will slowly find an indangered animal or rare ant on YOUR property or lake cabin. They will soon try to ban fishing THEY have tried before. The wacko liberals will slowly chip away at fishing and you will be blind sided. You can not use snowmobles in some federal parks now!They will soon (20 years or so) will not like your 4 stroke outboards because they pollute too much. So all you serious fisherman, remember to vote for your local and federal LIBERALS! OR in minnesota, that means about 70% of the Democrates in office I will laugh as they VERY SLOWLY take away you fishing and boating rights, right out from under you nose!!! They made modifing any outboard for high perf. a felony after 1996 model year. Leave it to a LIBERALS to take freedoms away from us! And then they RAM CONDOMS down our 9th graders , and hand out prom kits with condoms and spermasides to our kids. DON"T VOTE DFL!

[WeeWa]

But it's for the children!!!

[Billy]

The issue is clean air and my lungs prefer breathing an atmosophere that is not messed up.
The engineering and product development departments of the marine industry are all working to develop cleaner running engines. When I fire up my Optimax, there is no smoke, even on cold days. It gets 50 percent better fuel mileage than a normally aspirated engine of the same horsepower. This is good for all of us. I may not like paying for this but I know it's the wave of the future and I'll accept it.
You are correct, in that 4 stroke and direct fuel injection will be the outboard marine engines of the future.

[Quicksilver]

I sure hope cleaner burning, more fuel-efficient engines are in the future. I have a couple of neighbors who have the Yamaha 115 4 stroke on their boats...one bass boat and a deck boat. They are quiet, clean burning, and fuel efficient. I love my Ranger 692 with a 175 smoking, fuel-guzzling EFI Merc., but I certainly hope there are 4 strokes in the 150 HP range when it comes time to replace the motor.

[Cresthawk]

4 stroke may be our only option...I've repeatedly heard the "rumor" that mfgs are considering dropping the DFI technology. Anybody heard anything substantiated that Merc is dropping the OptiMax technology?

[Cresthawk]

That's dropping all Optis, not just the 200 plus identified in another thread.

[Jesse-WI]

An issue or 2 ago in Bass&Walleye boats, they talked alot about 4 strokes and pollution. Yamaha and Merc were both getting close to 225hp in 4 stroke that were close to 500lbs. in weight. They lead you to believe that supercharger technologies were going to be used. I think 2 strokes will eventually no longer be available for new purchases.

[Mr T]

Cresthawk,
I do know that Merc is changing some of it's line up in it's mid range Horse power. It seems to me that they did something this year with the 115. They either dropped the DFI 115 or added a 115 four stroke or something like that. Perhaps someone else knows. I do believe that all the problems that DFI engines have had (just look at the OMC fiasco or now the 2001 Optimax 200 H.P. problems) are not lost from notice by the companies "bottom line" CFO's. Too many warranty claims only mean less profit. I would not be surprised to see any company start to spend thier R&D money on looking for ways to develop lighter weight four strokes over trying to perfect the DFI system. Something that just hasen't happened yet.

[Al]

For what it's worth, according to a Merc Rep, they are working hard on a 250 Optimax. The optimax isn't going away ...only for the year 2001. As for 200-225 outboards in 4 strokers....who knows. It will be expensive, it will be heavy, and it will be unresponsive performance wise. Ever read the bass and walleye boats story on weight distribution? Adding one hundred pounds, even less, to the rear end of a boat makes it drive and perform much differently. What about valves and how they will hold up churning away at 6000 rpms for long runs? Something I cannot understand....why hang a car engine on a transom when they already put one inside of many other boats? I've driven the Honda and Yamaha 4 strokers and they don't respond like the two strokes do. I hope the DFI's hang on.

[Al]

For what it's worth, according to a Merc Rep, they are working hard on a 250 Optimax. The optimax isn't going away ...only for the year 2001. As for 200-225 outboards in 4 strokers....who knows. It will be expensive, it will be heavy, and it will be unresponsive performance wise. Ever read the bass and walleye boats story on weight distribution? Adding one hundred pounds, even less, to the rear end of a boat makes it drive and perform much differently. What about valves and how they will hold up churning away at 6000 rpms for long runs? Something I cannot understand....why hang a car engine on a transom when they already put one inside of many other boats? I've driven the Honda and Yamaha 4 strokers and they don't respond like the two strokes do. I hope the DFI's hang on.

[Mr T]

Jesse,
When you say 2 strokers will no longer be available for purchase, do you mean the DFI style 2 strokes or just the old low pressure carb or EFI ones? For sure the old ones are on the way out. Most folks say by 2005. I guess my question is do you think future outboards will all be 4 strokes?

[Craig]

Hard telling what the future may bring but I suspect you'll see both DFI and 4 stroke for a long time to come. I haven't seen anything to make me think either is going to go away across the board. My guess is that outboard makers will continue to work on DFI and four strokes till they get it right. I also believe you'll see turbochargers and superchargers soon unless power sources move inboard. You simply can't hang 500lbs. on a transom and expect no problems with performance. Add a jackplate and I can't see how you can't affect the structural integrity of the transom sooner or later.

One thing I haven't heard mentioned is manufacturers might just change the game plan and move power sources inboard coupling that with changes in configuration of the engine itself. Instead of a V-4 or V-6 you'd have an arrangement something like the old Corvair engines looked. I think they called it a flat 6. You might be able to put something like that under the back casting deck.

Tom, lighten up on the liberals. We're not all like that. I share some of your concerns. We have our share of nut cases, just like the right wing of our political spectrum. I too suggest birth control methods to my students..."Keep your pants on. It's 100% effective."

Expensive? Yes...but hey there's lots of guys out there that are already spending 40-50K on fishing boats.

[Mr T]

Craig,
One of my concerns is not if guys are spending 40 or 50K on a fishing boat, but rather, if a guy HAS to end up spending 40 or 50K just to get into a fishing boat. As technology keeps pushing boat prices higher and higher due to EPA regulations, fewer and fewer folks are going to be able to go boating. They will just pick a cheaper hobby. If that happens we as boaters are screwed. At least politically. Then we really will find ourselves out voted and unrepresented. Look at what is happening to hunters. As a percentage of the population, hunters are a dying breed. No voices, no votes........no representation. That's my fear with all the new requlations anyway. I'm I just a "chicken little", what do you think?

[Jesse-WI]

Once the companies get 4 stroke motors running and performing to the requirements we need, simple company economics say they will drop the 2 stroke lines. The EPA rules are only going to get harder and harder. The days of burning oil in gas will come to and end. My guess would be no later than 2010 from a government stand point. We all know that if the new larger 4 strokes prove to be great products if will happen much sooner.

[Craig]

No, you aren't a Chicken Little. I'm saying we have to be aware, and vigilant, but careful not to overreact.

I have a 1997 Ranger 681VS with a 115 Evinrude Intruder bolted to the transom. It's a two stroke. I spend $35/gallon for synthetic biodegrable oil. I got a real deal on it or I wouldn't have bought it. Ranger makes a real fine boat but that fact makes no difference to me if I can't buy it. Same with most guys.

"We do not inherit the Earth, we borrow it from our children." I believe that. I have a grandaughter now. I can't wait to take her fishing and show her all of the things I know and see on the water. Every kid should have that. If it takes a more expensive motor so be it. But 40-50K for all of us? Don't think so. Some people will buy at that price though. Heck, there's guys that'd buy at twice that price.

I think technology will bail us little guys out. People are creative. Enginners and scientists even more so. I don't think we're all going to have to spend that kind of money to go fishing. Remember when computers were millions of dollars? Now everybody has one.

The pols aren't going to take our outboards away. It would cost them too much. They want them cleaned up. We can do that.

[Snag]

Well, here goes.

I think we're head'n for inboard power. There, said it. Not an I.O. as we know it today but something a bit more intelligent than a 500 lb clamp on power unit hanging in the second worse position possible on a boat. (Only the bow would be worse.)

Automotive technology will be the only inovator simply because the numbers offer a chance to recoup R & D costs. Until the late 90's two stroke outboards stayed pretty much the same for 70 years. Outboards changed in cowling style and color.

Increased efficiency in jet or "impellor" drives would be as good a guess as VPPS, (variable pitch inboard propeller shafts). Super engines to choose from, 300+ hp Lexus, Cadillac Northstar, maybe Rotax, maybe Pratt & Whitney? It could happen...

How bout this, on demand, orbital side thrusts for "spot on the spot" boat control. Trolling motors are gone due to eye coordinated positioning linked to main engine propelled thrust systems.

On board, gravity drain cooling system using a variation of tunnel hull technology. Smart autopilots interfaced with onboard radar and coordinated with more powerful GPS. All at a cheap fish locator price.

Speaking of fish locators, real time, high resolution, hull mounted camera lenses capable of fixing on target motion of bait schools, etc.

Just some thoughts!

Gotta change a shear pin and tie on a new starter rope now,

Snag

[Mr T]

Craig,
If we can have cleaner outboards, with proven reliability, at a similar price, hey, I'm all for it. I love to drink clean water and breath clean air. But I must say I'm suspicious. I live not far from Yellowstone. Tree Huggers in the National Park Service and other organizations, have wanted to ban Snowmobiles for a long time there because "2 strokes cause lots of air pollution". So, just as the Snowmobile industry
comes up with a 4 stroke machine with much lower pollution out put the National Park Service bans all snow machines for good. And further more cancels the annual "Clean Machine 2 stroke competition" where college kids tinker with technology to come up with cleaner running snow machines. Why? because the issue is not a cleaner running snow machine, it really is what to do and say to ban ALL snow machines. There are unfortunatly among us folks who are not for wise use of the resources they are for NO use of the resources. Mankind is a scourge to the earth and should be reduced or eliminated. These folks only say they want cleaner Outboards. What they really want is no more outboards or for that matter fishermen hurting fish with fish hooks. I could go on you know. As fisher men and women we need to use care as to whom we throw in with. I recall it was just a couple short years ago when some snow machine owners would say "all the Park Service wants is just a cleaner running machine". Now no one can argue the fact that the NPS had a hidden agenda all along. They just never told anyone. Now it's too late. Can boat owners be very far behind on the hit list?

[Al]

I think you are probably correct about in or onboard power. From the same sources, I heard the high power 4 stroke mercs will be inline sixes. Bass guys won't like it because it will have to be so tall. Remember the inline 115's? They had no valves and no superchargers. I hope the Govt. doesn't push the outboard manufacturers to 4 strokes like they did DFI's. It's obvious that the technology takes a bit to perfect, and so far, we the fishermen, and OMC shareholders, have paid for it. Some will say 4 strokes are old tried and true, but I still say they haven't been putting that kind of power out for those lengths of time, shaking on a transom in rough water.....there are a lot of concerns with HP four strokers. Sure, they maybe can build one in R and D and it will work, but.....in R and D, money is no object.

[Mayfly]

I know there's more than a few mechanics on this board. Can or will someone please explain why 4-strokers are so much heavier than 2-strokes?

[Mayfly]

Keep talking Snag. I love what I hear. Hope it all comes before I croak.

[cmb]

I don't know "the rest of the story" on the snowmobile thing, but somehow I think you are only giving us a brief and very one sided view of the situation. you don't think that say noise, environmental degredation, wise use AND air quality issues were ALL factors? RV's can only use their generators during restricted periods in many national parks. This is due to airquality concerns, but also noise, astetics, and to minimize our impacts on the natural suroundings. We are not alowed to hunt in nat parks for similar reasons-were our forefathers "out to get" the hunters too?!!!!

[Jesse-WI]

Here is a link to someone who just tested Yamaha'a big 4 stroke motor. Tell me what you think the future of 2 strokes are after reading this.

http://www.muskyhunter.com/forum/generalforum/6280.html