Yamaha F8 vs. T8

[EricCO]

Which one will make a better kicker?

The F8 has an optional 10 amp alternator while the T8 does not?

The T8 is high thrust and has tilt, but I will need to go back there and hook up the link to the big motor for steering.

Do I need a high thrust on a 17 foot aluminum boat? What exactly will high thrust do for one trolling?

Should I get controls or tiller? If I get tiller I can always hook up that troll master throttle control dial, right?

Help me work through this issue. The old lady gave me the green light for a kicker, plus she's throwin down half!

[Bad Finger]

Eric,

The F-8 will put out 10 amps at full throttle, you are not going to get much juice while trolling.

Why do you want to tie in to the big motor? I had my last boat set up that way and would never do it again. You lose so much control at the steering wheel. Tiller is the only way to go.

The high thrust will allow you to make small, quick corse adjustments with short hits to the throttle. The prop is designed to give you high thrust in reverse too.

Troll Master did not list the T-8 or F-8 at supported motors. It may work, just not in their current literature.

One thing to keep in mind. The T-8 is a long shaft motor. You may want to hang one on your boat to see how everything lines up.

Good Luck.

[Hawgeye]

I cannot speak from experience since I too am in the market for a kicker. One thing that I am for sure on is to go with the tiller. Much better boat control for quick response and flexibility. The high thrust is good if fishing in highly populated spots with the faster power.

I am an ole' tiller guy with a console...the tiller is the best way to fish in my opinion. If I want to troll with the steering wheel, I just throw out a couple of 5 gallon brakes!

[Gumbo]

Eric,

I'll comment just on the tiller or no tiller question. I've got an electric start, remotely controlled kicker with no tiller. It's nice because you never have to leave the console (steering wheel) to tilt, start, steer, or apply throttle to the kicker. However, I don't have the option to disconnect the steering rod and steer with the tiller. Most of the time I'm happy doing it all from the console, but sometimes I'd like to be in the back of the boat next to my downriggers and run the kicker from a tiller.

Just something to think about. Good luck with your decision.

[KevinA]

I'd go with a T8...in fact I went with a T8 as it sits on my transom right now.

10 amp vs 6 amp alternator: I've heard this complaint though I don't see that it holds water, maybe I'm missing something. As BF said, the 10 or 6 amp is rated at WOT. If this is a kicker then the size of the alternator isn't relevant. Even if you were cruising a ways at higher throttle setting how much juice is the motor replacing? Well, 6 amps for an hour is 6 amp-hours...given that a typical bow mount (assuming 12V system) pulls 10-25+ amp-hours, depending on speed, the kicker alternator really isn't much use in extending your day. If it does extend your day, then you've got too small of batts to begin with.

Big motor hookup: The T8 comes set up for either a console or tiller steering. I went with the tiller steer & hook it up to the big motor via the small ball-quick disconnect on the front of each motor. Very easy to hook up..plenty of control for trolling. I usually run 9-12 rods with leads being shorter(DRs) to quite long (long lines down the center, dipsys out 200+). Quick turns are not an option...earlier in the year maybe, but not now. The power tilt on the T8 is a really nice option. The T8 is also TINY compared to the standard Rude or Merc 9.9 4S. They come in 20 & 25 inch shaft. It's REALLY quiet. The pisser is about as loud as the motor itself.

Need high thrust: If you're only going to use the motor for a trolling kicker then go with the high thrust...no question. I've trolled with a 25hp OB, 165hp I/O, 175hp I/O, 150hp OB, 175EFI OB, 9.9 4S, & 200hp OB. I've found the T8 to have a better bite & more umphf than trolling with any of them. I can turn right into 3 footers without slipping sideways & maintain trolling speed with only a tiny bit more throttle. Overall the high thrust feels like better control with a more positive push. The little thing amazes me. Touch the starter button for a fraction of a second & zoom...you're off. One thing I REALLY like is I don't need to warm it up for 10+ minutes to keep it running once I shift into gear (much like the merc 9.9 4S, been there, didn't like that...heaven forbid it stalls & floods). I start the T8 up, push in the choke, & shift into gear to start setting lines...all in about a minute or less.

Tiller or console: Your choice, I prefer the tiller & hooking it to the main motor. Troll master does have a unit to control speed (I contacted them). So far I haven't felt the need as the tiller throttle does quite well...no slop in the handle. I'll probably set up the troll master control eventually.

Need a contact?: www.boats.net Great price & greater service...a pleasure doing business with them. Mary is the person to deal with. I had mine in about 10-12 days.

[EricCO]

Thanks for taking the time to type all that. Those are the things I was looking for.

So your saying that even with a 10 amp alternator it isn't going to put any charge to my battery?

I like to run livewells, radios, fishfinders, GPS, and lights if I;m trolling at night. Will the motor in a trolling situatio with the 6 amp provide enough juice to run all that and the motor with a little charge to the battery?

Thanks a bunch.

How much did Boats.net charge you? I can't figure out the model numbers on their website.

Thanks

[KevinA]

I don't think there is any difference in a 6 or 10 amp alternator at idle. There will be a fractional difference, but for all intents and purposes it won't amount to much.

Let's try some accounting(I'm just winging it here, but this should be close):
>VHF radio(on, but not being used constantly): a 50% excess draw estimate yields 0.75amps/hour
>Fishfinder(again a 50% over-estimate of amp draw): 0.4amps/hr
>Stereo(+50% draw): 9 amps/hr
>GPS(+50% draw est.): 0.7amps/hr
>Navigation lights(bow light, anchor light, an internal light...+50% estimate): 2 amps/hr

It seems obvious that the stereo is a luxury in terms of power(that & it really destroys the atmosphere of night trolling) so we'll skip it.

Sum up your power needs for an hour with everything running = 3.85 amps/hr...let's call 4.0 even. Say you troll/fish for 5 hours...your up to 20 amp-hours of juice. If you have a reasonable group 27 battery & it's fully charged you have around 90 amp-hours of capacity (group 31 you have around 105 amp-hours). After your done fishing you've used about 20-25% of one battery's capacity.

Now toss in the kicker motor's alternator...this is just a pure guess...but at trolling rpm say you're at 20%(?) of your max rpm & also say that the alternator output is linear with engine rpm(probably not, I'm thinking it'll be less, but we'll punt it) 20% of 6 amps = 1.2 amps, 20% of 10amps = 2 amps. For 5 hours you've 'generated' between 6 & 12 amp-hours of juice, depending on your choice of kicker motor. With the kicker running & charging over 5 hours you net out at using somewhere bewteen 8 & 15% of your available battery capacity, depending on whether you're running a group 27 or 31 battery. Now consider that I over-estimated all the accessories power draw by 50%. So now you would have used around a net 5-8% of your available battery capacity...for one battery. If you troll for 10 hours just double all the consumption percentages to see where you are at.

Most boats(?) have at least 2 batts on board & usually at least three. In any case the kicker motor's alternator really isn't making a whole lot of difference regardless of whether it's pumping out 6 or 10 amps....If you're running out of power you need new batteries(old ones worn out) or you need bigger batts to begin with.

If you're running a bow mount electric(12V) & running a moderate speed (40% wide open?) you'll be drawing around 12-20 amps/hr...if you do this for 5 hours you'll have used 60-100 amp-hours of juice...the kicker charging the one battery will have extended your bow mount time by 45-90 minutes before you're tapped..of course by this time you've been on the water for a minimum of 11 hours...you're tired, hungry, if you're a drinker while you fish you're plowed & if you're not a drinker you need a beer...bad,...if you haven't limited by now, you probably won't be limiting this trip, so it's time to head for the barn.

[BigBass]

KevinA~

I am just an observer to this topic, but, I just also want to thank you for your knowledge and input on this topic. Its great to see thoughtful input from a true SPORTSMAN -(someone that is out for more than just himself). I learned alot!

Sorry to get sappy, but I feel it needed to be said!

Thanx to Kevin and all the others who have helped me with my questions in the past!

BigBass~

[FROGMAN]

I am currently running that very T-8 kicker motor on my tournament boat this year. All I can say is I'm impressed with the reliability, and performance more everyday. I have used it on Lake Erie in 6' waves(not by choice), smaller lakes, and rivers. As all of the other post's have stated the high thrust gives much better control, and I wholeheartedly agree. My next kicker will be another T-8. The power tilt is a lifesaver especially when the waves are slapping the stern around! You can't go wrong with this choice! Good Luck

Keith Segar
NPAA #260