Tom P.

[Gary Gray]

Tom P.

I don't know who you are, but I am very offended by your comments, which are not facts. So, here is my challenge to you, once and for all, to get you up to speed on the "Tramsoms" in Yar Craft Boats.

You email me, at: garygray@execpc.com , and we will set up a tour at the factory, so you can see just how Transom's are made. I will personally take you on the tour. You let me know when you want this tour, and I will drive from Oshkosh, Wi, and if you are on my way, "even pick you up",. Then and only then, will you have the facts, and will be able to make such statements, as having the knowledge of how the transoms are built, and how strong or weak they are.

I am sick and tired of seeing you turn every post you go to, into a Yar Craft Transom bashing post. I have run Yar Craft boats, (1895 Storm TSC). I had the first one built, and was there to watch it get built. I have never had one problem!! And I am sure I am on the water a little bit more than you. I am also sure, that I run the boats a lot harder than you ever thought of. So, let's set a date for a tour. If you don't show, or fail to set a date, everyone here at WC and the walleye world will know, because of this post. I will let evryone know the true outcome of the tour, good or bad!

I will await your email.

PS: This will be a friendly tour, no matter how this post seems!

Thank you,
Gary Gray #10

[Steve]

Gary I think your taking Tom's comments a little to personally. From what I've read Tom owns a YarCraft and is proud of it and is even one of the first to defend and recommend YarCraft boats to other Walleye Central followers. Tom's only concern is when adding a jackplate to the transom of his boat(this may be true or it may not). I believe that Tom has researched this in great length(just read some of his earlier posts they are very detailed) and has utilized many resources in doing so. Tom has even taken some good hearted ribbing for maybe getting a little carried away.He may not be a pro staffer like yourself but he is entitled to his opinion and yes I think he would be delighted to take you up on your offer. In Toms more rescent posts he and others(myself included) have even found a little humor in Toms words. On the other hand you came off very defensive. If Tom is incorrect in his assessment of YarCrafts transom I'm sure he would be delighted to hear so. I don't know Tom either but I don't believe it is his intent to bash YarCraft(it is his boat of choice after all). He is simply voiceing a concern on an area he feels needs improvement. Heck I guess it worked, he has gained yours and YarCrafts attention! Be Nice.

[Tom P]

THANK YOU STEVE, The most well said post I have ever seen on this matter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes, Steve is totally correct. I will defend Yar-Craft as a well made boat and I would put it right in #1 or #2 on my next boat to buy. Gary, Giving me a tour on how you build your transoms will do nothing. No strongboard bracing is No strongboard bracing! No stringer/knees are NO stringer/knees. That will not change until BOB the owner puts them into his boats. There is this problem , it is called "oscillation delamination" it happens if you do not have enough bracing. It can take months or years but it is there and it happens to every boat transom. That is why you need bracing to limit it. I have taken a transom out in 2 month with a jackplate and a Merc. 90 hp on a Sylvan Pro Select. IT HAD A TRANSOM KNEE IN IT and it still broke. It also had the SAME wood you guys use." 1.5 inch no void transom plywood" I can't help you on that one. Yar-Craft just makes a sub standard transom when compared to others. I have talked to your production manager Paul Thompson 2 times for a total of about 1 hour about transoms. He agrees with me. Yes, your own guy agrees with me. I hate to say this because I know I will get beat up on this one, But he commented on where did you learn so much about transoms. Talk to your own guy. Learn from him! He knows you guys need a better stronger transom too. I have talked to a bunch of differant manufactures about YOUR lack of bracing in your transoms. Quit dodging the need to finally make a stronger transom. I AM NOT THE PROBLEM. You will not get me to shut up. I'm the Ralph Nadder of transoms, except I'm not a Liberal. Stop wasting your time with me and get on that CAD system and make a better transom. Steve is right,You guys are taking it way to personal. Gary you can tell me all day long about how you have never seen a transom go out with a jackplate on it. Sorry I won't believe it. Why do ALL the bass boat have transom bracing? I'm just going by what the industry has done. My therory is ONLY based on that. I have every bass boat manufacture behind ME on this one. I must also say, it means nothing, but even the editor of Bass & Walleye agrees with me. Did you read the editoral comment on my letter in Backwash. I just remembered, The editor talked to Merral our what ever his name is at Yar-Craft about my letter about weak transom in walleye boats. The editor was told from him that they would warranty my transom for "ONE" year. What one year. I thought it had a "five" year warranty. That's how much faith you guys had in your transom! You took 4 years away from me!! Thanks again Steve! You are the only the second guy that has backed me up. You have balls!!

[Tom P]

I would take you up on it, if you fly me out there. :) :)

[Tom P]

Gary ,how about I bring you and Bob to Triton boats and I will show you how to build a transom!

[Gary Gray]

Tom:

The offer still stands, you tell me what city you want to fly out of, and I will make the arrangements. Give me a couple of dates, so I have a backup date. I will even pick you up at the airport, and drive you to Yar Craft. Email me with info.

Now, who do I have the ticket made out to, " Tom P., Tom B., Or Steve?

I talked to Scott Golden last night on the phone. He did some checking, and says that Tom P., Tom B., and a few more are the same person making these posts, and then answering them. Do I say More!

So the offer still stands, Tom P., Tom B. or who ever you are hiding behind today. Put up, or shut up!!

Gary Gray #10

[FJH1]

From reading the posts from Tom P. over the past couple of years it's pretty obvious that he is a strong proponent of Yar Craft boats. He highly recommends the boat in every aspect except for the transom. I can tell from Tom's posts that he is trying to tweek the most performance out of his Yar Craft. In one post he said something like "the boat is screaming for set-back". The man simply wants to put a jackplate on his Yar Craft but will not do so because he feels that the transom does not have adequate support bracing to handle the added stress. Personally I've never taken any of his posts as a bash against Yar Craft, he is just pointing out his educated (in the "school of transom design") opinion. I see nothing wrong with this. I remember one recent post from Tom P regarding a tiller Yar Craft with a Yamaha F80 where Tom said something like the boat will be perfectly fine with that setup and the transom is plenty adequate. Gary, I wouldn't take his posts as a personal attack on you. You are on the Yar Craft Pro Staff, so you have an agenda to support and recommend Yar Craft to sustain your future with the company. However, I do value Tom P's opinion (un-biased by Pro Staff leanings). I don't think that Tom is going to be satisfied until he sees transom bracing similar to that in the bass boat industry where jackplates are a fact of life. From what I can tell, a factory tour will do nothing for his opinion, he's done his research. Gary, don't take my post as a bash against you, I'm from northern Illinois and before I got into tournaments I came up to Winnebago to watch a MWC weigh-in, I thought you were a class act (and still do).

Best Regards,

FJH

[Steve]

As stated earlier I don't know Tom any more than I know you Gary and please do not imply that I'm Tom either. I don't own a YarCraft and I could care less if there transom is good or bad. I commend your loyalty to your sponsor and to your beliefs and respect you as a professional, but maybe this should be left to the engineers and production people. I don't want to take sides or be a referee here, but the guy is just voicing a concern and again stated he would buy a YarCraft again and that YarCraft builds a quality boat. Hes not bashing anything or anybody and I feel has done his homework and research very well, maybe he has a case maybe he dos'nt. He mentioned he spoke with Paul Thompson a Production Manager at YarCraft and also Bass and Walleye Boat magazine and they seem to agree with Tom, Maybe they could respond directly and clear this up. Its obvious that both you and Tom feel very strongly over this subject and disagree, hey thats ok this is America and thats one of the reasons we have great forums like this,if everyone agreed on everything thing the world would be a pretty dull place. I don't feel that Tom has attacked you personaly or YarCraft and has presented his concern in a possitive way. The guy enjoys his boat and paid good money for it, he's just asking that when he purchases his next YarCraft that maybe theres room for improvement,he has that right. I love Walleye Central and log in daily and yes Steve is my real name and yes I have used others for various reasons like privacy and to ask a stupid question or not to sound like a know it all,I hope you respect that(its to bad that I feel like i'm going out on a limb to voice my opinion). So please don't turn to Scott and try to discredit Tom, go to the engineers and present some facts reguarding the transom issue,not weather or not its Tom B or Tom P. I hope that Tom takes you up on your very generous offer to fly him into the plant. Its a win win for him, either his mind will be put to ease on installing a jackplate and feel better about his purchase or YarCraft will take action to make a great product even better in the future. Please Gary I have nothing against you or YarCraft, I have the utmost respect for you as a person, a professional and an angler. I have to admit I thought Tom was a nut the first time I read that multi paged post regarding the subject, but I gave him credit for his passion and for his very detailed research. I respect him and his opinions as well. I wish the best to both of you, enjoy the holidays. Steve :)

[Todd_NE]

Gary,

I empathize with what you are feeling right now. Danged if you do, Danged if you don't.

Your offer of driving, flying Tom Whoever to YarCraft is one of the nicest and most honest things I've ever seen on this board regarding dealing with someone knocking a product. Obviously you take the company's repuation and your own seriously, kudo's.

It gets old watching people trying to destroy the reputation of a company you believe in. It seems at times there is no limit to what people will say or do, with our without foundation. Many times those complaining are not sharing "all of the facts", much less their identity. Unfortunately, I'm sure a percentage of readers that come to this board take negative comments to heart and that's where you and I, along with others, feel obligated to "defend" products we believe in.

It's a quandary, should "staffers" get into a protracted argument with every Tom Whoever out there that says someting negative on this board? No, of course not, but it's hard not to sometimes. Should we just ignore it and feel we aren't helping the consumers or casual observer actually have another informed opinion? I've taken the ignore path most recently and it does make me feel like I'm letting down a company and people you belive in.

There is a unfortunately a perception among some that a "pro" will just say someting because he or she is "paid". I hate to break it to everyone, but usually the pay, boat discount, whatever is NOT enough to get me, or about anyone I know to say something they don't believe is true. Plus, reputable "pro's" say who they are affiliated with when making a post.

There are threads right now on this board by someone who has consistently bashed one boat company and is now asking for advice on how to replace rivets on a different boat from another company. While I can't say I have all the information, and certainly I admit I could be missing something, it would seem that rational people can see through that stuff.

I personally feel almost every boat out there, particularly those designed for serious walleye anglers at about any price point, are fine boats - the best ever made in history. The best advice out there is to ride and fish in as many boats as you can and decide what YOU want in a boat before making a decision.

I hope Tom Whoever takes you up on your offer. But alas, I doubt it will happen. And unfortunately, I suspect unless you do whatever Tom Whoever suggests you do to YarCraft boats, it won't meet Tom Whoever's muster.

Good luck in 2002 Gary, you take your reputation seriously.

Todd_NE
Todd Consbruck
Fisher/Mercury Pro Staff

[mike]

I agree with the last poster, I too read Tom P's thoughts on Yar Craft with great interest - I think his points are unbiased and he does still promote the boat.

I guess Gary you need to take a step back from your role/position and look at this from a consumers point of view . . . perhaps you'll come to understand Tom's position. If what he is saying is correct and all the other glass manufacturers have transom bracing and Yarcraft does not then I too would ask; "Why not?". Seems like a fair question, I don't think the tour would teach him anything either, sounds to me like the guy has a fairly good grasp the design of your boats transoms.

This is a fast moving environment that we all live in, information is shared at a very high rate of speed. More so then ever before companies will need to offer a top notch product and the service to back it up or you quickly will become a memory. As a consumer it is our right to share our thoughts, if you've got a problem with that then I guess that's too bad.

[Pitts]

There ya go Tom Please take the time to go see Yarcrafts factory and how the transoms are put together. It is on the table right now. GaryI do not think that Tom P was bashing Yarcraft either just there transoms because he wants to put a jack plate on it and I guess the warranty will be void or shortened because of this.
Tom until ya go I will not like any more comments either whether you both agree when your done or not makes no difference.
JUST DO IT!!!!

Pitts

[Tom P]

Gary, KING TO KING BISHOP FOUR, CHECK!:)

[Dave in Mpls]

Gary-

I, too, do not believe Tom is taking shots at either you or Yar Craft. Heck, I even get to work some "Tom ribbing" into some of my posts!

My questions are:

1) If you were in Tom's shoes (i.e. an average customer, with no inside connections, paying retail), would you think twice about putting a jackplate on that particular rig, and

2) Will the addition of a jackplate have any effect on the warranty?

If the answer to either question is "yes", my only other question is "why"?

Best of luck to you in the upcomming season, Gary

Regards

[FJH1]

Good point Dave, I look forward to reading Gary's answer.

Best Regards,

FJH

[srj]

Gary, I'm glad to see you try to put an end to the transom bashing. I have had two Yarcrafts in the past and plan on ordering an 1895 shortly. I've had no problems of any kind with my others-an 1781BT and an 1890BT-and I trust not to have any with my new one. I missed whatever occurance started the transom thing. I haven't noticed any posts mentioning Yarcraft transoms falling off. Have I missed them? Good luck in 2002.

[Steve]

I don't think there is any issue with YarCrafts transoms falling off, the only concern being mentioned is can you run a jackplate due to the lack of bracing and what happens to the warranty if you do so. Just curious do you have a jackplate on your boat? I'm guessing not many people run one on a 1775 with a 150.

[Gary Gray]

To answer the questions asked:

1. Tom bought this boat because his wife would not let him buy a Bass Boat, and thats fine. I appreciate the fact that he bought a Yar Craft. I Just am offended that he put's words in Paul Thompson's mouth.
2. The model boat, that Tom bought is not meant to go 70mph. It is rated for a 150hp, and thats that. This is not a high performance bass boat, and there were no claims of such by the Dealer, nor the Factory. This particular model, has never had a transom failure, and I quote those words from Paul Thompson's words this morning.

3. The owner of Yar Craft, as I believe, told him he could use a setback, up to 5 1/2 " under this warrenty.

4, The only reason for a setback, or jackplate, is to allow fresh water to reach the prop, and to tweek engine height, along with prop configuration, so one can gain premeire performance.

5. I think Tom should have bought a Storm if he wanted speed, and use of larger setback plate. I run the Storm with a Cook setback, a very minimal setback, but yet enogh to allow fresh water to the prop, and it allows me to reach peak performance throgh engine height and the right prop. There has been only 2 boats in 5 yrs that have been able to pass me, and both them have had 250's on the back.

6. If you look at the transom, there are knee braces, both in the 1785, and the 1895 Storm, They just aren't as large as in other boats. And the reason for that, is we don't need them. Yar Craft's tramson cannot be made any thicker, because we Walleye fishermen need to put a kicker on the back. As it stands, Yar Craft's transom, is the heaviest out there.

The offer still stands Tom P., at least then you will have your facts straight. And at the same time, I will take you for a trip down High performance lane, by stopping down to Mercury's Boathouse, to talk to the engineers that help me set up my boat each yr. Then you can say, you have some facts about High Performance, not just talk.

Gary Gray

[Tom P]

SRJ, You have backtrollers. They are not at issue here. The transom on the backtroller is what I feel fits that boats use and hp. You go up to a V6 with a jackplate and then I question long term integrity of the transom. Black and white comments like that make no sense to me. "My boats fine my motor has not fallen off", Please. ------------------ Gary, Thank you and Yar-Craft for the offer. That is a very generous offer. The way I see it, it is if Chevrolet would fly me out to Detroit to look at a Corvette with no shocks. And they would say "see here is our Corvette! This is how we make it. Then I would say "But where are the shocks??" Then Chevrolet would say "shocks?? Who needs shocks" That is how I see it! I keep asking myself ,"Yar-Craft, where are the shocks?" I keep getting some people like Gary,Bert,( HI Bert!Haven't heard from you lately. If I don't hear from you, have a Merry Christmas!)Yes, Dave from Mpls on occasion. Then there was Terry the Pro Staffer who was all over me on my first post on this board a good 10-14 months ago. Gary(Your turn this time I guess) Will I be hearing from Terry on this tread?? I keep getting people like the above, telling me I don't need shocks. But anyone who really thinks about it knows ,you need shocks! Gary as for changing my name, what the heck is that all about?? I did change my name on the Suzuki post. I was WOW #2 and WOW #3. I was trying to have some fun! Sorry. I don't really change my name too much on this board. I have an opinion and most of the time I will back it with my real name. More then most, I would guess. Tom B. is Tom B. and Steve (he is one heck of a guy!) He is Steve. Steve can spell and has better grammer then me. So Steve is not me. Thanks to all for backing my opinion on the matter. Most of you hit it dead on. A tour means nothing to me. All I will see is a Corvette with NO shocks! I already have one of those on a ShoreL'ander in the garage. The only way a tour/trip would even be worth talking about is if I was seeing my new Corvette as you are putting in newly designed Bilstien shocks that you (Chevrolet) decided finnally to put into the Corvette that was coming to rest on my trailer at home. Thanks again guys. I like Corvettes, but they need shocks!

[Bert]

Hey Tom,

Oh, I'm still here. I'm just sitting back and enjoying the discussion. Not too much to offer here that hasn't already been mentioned (except stop using the dang CAPS LOCK key!!!...it screams of desperation when employed in an otherwise healthy debate.)

I suppose in return for Gary's kind offer, you could invite him to see how TOM'S TRANSOMS are built. ;)

All kidding aside, you have a Merry Christmas too.

Bert

[Tom P]

This is an answer to post 16-- Gary you are always offended. Are you a bleeding heart liberal?? Because they are always offended.:) As for putting words into Paul's mouth, He told me he sees a real problem with these up and coming 4 strokes and they(Yar-Craft ) will have to do something because the transom Will Not take a V6 4 stroke and a kicker.It just will not. We are only talking 100 lb. more here. I'm talking jackplates with a V6 There is your 100lb ++ PSI on that transom. He said he tries to tell them but they don't want to listen. Paul will try to make Bob happy. I don't blame him for that. I tried not to use his name as long as I could but when you guys try to tell me North is really south. Paul brought up the fact about needing the 2 inch transom for kickers. I added then make a relief for that if you were to go to a thicker transom. All it takes is a router. But wait All you need is some bracing under the splash well. Here we go again getting off subject again Put some stongboards and stringer/knee bracing in and Yar-Craft.then it will be like the rest of the boat industry!!!!As for the 1775 not being an Allison. I know that.I want that extra 3 mph out of my boat! And I don't care if BOB said he would warraty it for the five years. I own my boat for longer then that. I do not want a 19 ft boat. I like 17.5 ft boats.

[Peanut]

I hate to get involved in this, but, I'm a sucker, and since the thread, although heated, has stayed reasonably civil, here's a couple observations from an innocent bystander:

1. Tom, it sounds like you know what you are talking about when it comes to transoms, and there may be a limitation with the current Yar-Craft transom design. But, is it also partially that you wanting your boat to do something it is not built to do? All boats have their strengths and limitations, and perhaps Yar-Craft 17.5'ers are simply not built to run like a raped ape with a monster engine hangin' off the back. You mention the Corvette without shocks - a decent analogy. But, perhaps the Yar-Craft guys will say that what you are asking for is a Corvette with off-road capabilities - something it is not designed for. A limitation, yes. A design flaw, that's subject to debate (as we have seen).

2. Gary, you have the right (heck - it's probably your responsibility) to defend a sponsor. And, that you are doing it in an adult fashion is refreshing. But, if the current trend to heavier motors continues - it may be fair comment to say that at some point, there may be an issue Yar-Craft needs to address. To me, that's not slagging anyone - engine technology may make it a reality, or, there may be reduced applications for Yar-Crafts down the road. Perhaps Yar-Craft will have to make some big decisions in this regard in the future, to accomodate the new, bigger engine technology, and Tom's position is not so wrong, as it is ahead of current planning.

After re-reading the thread, the thought that keeps coming to my mind is the principles on each side agree on more than perhaps they realize or are willing to admit. But, as stated, you guys have played nice, so, thanks for an interesting thread.

derrek.

CANADIAN WALLEYE OPEN UP AND SAY "EH"!

[Tom P]

Good post Peanut! I should have put Blazer instead of Corvette. I'm not asking for bass boat performance. The boat is just screaming for set back. I know I video taped it. I'm not asking alot here. The transom can't take the setback stress and Yar-Craft is running away from even addressing it as a posability. A Blazer with no shocks. Warrior has stringer knees if I remember right. They are wimpy little thing. But at least they tried! If I can find some time, I will share my popsical stick analagy about transom flex/stress too. I need to go shoppen with the wife and little one tonight.

[Gary Gray]

Tom:

Just for your info notebook on high performance and blueprint for building the ultimate transom, here are some facts that are undisputable. Your boat is a model 1785 DC, not a 1775, next, when you are talking strength in transom wisdom, where do you get your facts?
You are trying to make a Blazer out of a corvette. If you wanted to buy a Blazer, then that is what you should have bought.

There has never been a failure with a transom, that we have on record. So if you know of one, please inform me, and I will ask to see the records at the factory.

If you wanted a Bass boat, thats what you should have bought, instead of a Walleye boat. You are trying to compare apples to oranges.

I am not looking for a war on this subject, but you seem to be concerned about something, that you need not be. There have not been any failures. So I don't know why you keep dwelling on the fact.

If you know so much about boats and transoms, then you surely understand the fact, that when a deck is laid on the hull, this becomes the top reinforcement you are looking for. The strengh of the transom comes on top, more so than the bottom where the knee bracing is. Yar Crafts stringers are laid, and then totally encapsolated in woven, which bonds together to make the hull and stringers and transom become one in strength. Then the deck is set on, which gives you the ultimate strength from the top side. This is then bonded to the hull to complete the strength of the hull and deck to mesh as one. This is what gives you the strength of the transom.

I'm sorry if I seem irritated, but I have seen them built, and have put them through the test, and have yet to see one fail. I may be on Yar Craft's Pro Staff, but no one, and I mean no one, will ever pay me to say something. I have based my career in the fishing world on honesty, and I would not give that up for anything.

I still wished you would take me up on the offer to see the factory, and see how the boats are built. Then, at least you could put facts with your theorys.
I did not make this post, looking for an arguement, just trying to clear the air, and you seem to want to keep changing the subject. I started this post offering you a chance to tour the factory, and see for yourself. Heck, I will even set you down with a "real live" tool and die maker" and engineer. Then you will have the true facts. He would be glad to listen to your thoughts. Heck he might even get a good idea from your discussion.

Gary Gray,#10

[Gilligan]

Just wonder.. if Tom had supplied an email address this matter could have been addressed off the board, it also makes me think that maybe people aren't accountable for what they say when they hide behind a computer with no email link.

[Gary Gray]

Yes, I run a setback on my boat. My boat is the 1895 Storm.

Vaughn Corneilus ran a 1785(the model in question), and he ran with a setback, and a 150. Had no problems. But, he found out later, his boat was faster without the setback plate.

You see, to run a setback, you first need a high performance hull boat. The 1785, is not a high performance hull.

When you get into high performance hulls, your talking a hull with a "pad". This allows the boat to trim up, then set up on the pad. When this happens, is where the set back comes into play. The set back allows a flow of fresh water to the prop, which allows you more speed and performance.

So, as you can see, Tom is trying to make a 70 mph boat out of a 52mph boat. This is like trying to make a Corvette into a 4 wheel drive off road vehicle.

Hope this helps,
Gary Gray

[Brad Bahls]

All of this is for an extra 3 mph??? You have to be kidding me. If my math serves me, that 3 mph would save me about 42 seconds on a 10 mile trip. No telling for sure how many fish I've missed out on with that extra 42 seconds.

My 1785 will go 50+ mph with 2 - 200 pound people, 4 batteries, 2 - 28 pound anchors, an 8 horse kicker, and enough tackle to end my marriage if my wife every figures out how much money I spent on it. Three mph??? Take my advise Tom. Go visit Yar-Craft and make Gary buy you lunch. Look at the plant and meet some nice people. Tell Gary you need a piece of his smoked sturgeon and some crackers to mull over what you just learned. Then go home and tell your wife that Yar-Craft refused to put any bracing on your boat so it will take you longer to get back to the dock and that you won't be able to get any more yard work done for the rest of the summer.

Make the best of an already good situation and stop blowing this thing out of proportion.

My 2 cents.

[Rapaleye]

I usually also stay on the sidelines during these but in this case I feel the need to state the obvious (at least what seems obvious to me).

In this debate both sides have their rights.

Yarcraft has the right as owners of a consumer product company to design their product to a target consumer. Whether that includes the use of a jackplate to enhance the performance or braces to allow it to carry the heaviest motor on the market that is their decision. They own the company.

Tom has the right to buy whatever product he wants. In this case he bought the Yarcraft. Tom appears to be outside the target design consumer. Tom has exercised his right to give feedback to the manufacturer on ways to improve their design and move it towards a design closer to his target.

Yarcraft has made a decision not to modify their design because they believe it already hits their target consumer. Mofidying it would move the product towards a target consumer that they don't belive they need. It is their right to do so, and the market will decide if that was the right decision.

In this debate the judge will not be me or any one else on this board. The consumer market place will decide who was right.

Finally
Tom you can exercise your final move and ultimate right as a consumer, do not buy the product if it doesn't meet your needs. Better yet buy one that does.

Gary I respect your desire to show Yarcraft’s committment to customer
satisfaction by offering Tom a tour etc. Tom has made it clear that he won’t be swayed. It seems to me that your final move is to speak with Yarcraft’s attorney and see if Tom’s behavior meets the legal definition of libel (“a written statement in published form that damages a person’s character or reputation”). It is probably arguable that Tom’s claims (not substantiated by actual production
failure rates, but simply boat manufacturers opinions) of likely future transom failure, may have harmed future boat sales. You have a great public record of exactly what was published on Walleye Central.

So it seems you both have a choice, exercise you final moves here or decide enough is enough and let it go.
My advice (even though you didn’t ask for it) is let it go.
Jim

[Tom P]

Gary, Do you really believe that anyone on this board will believe that Yar-Craft has not ever had a transom failure? A "0"% failure rate. That statement is so out there, I can't believe you would stake your reputation on something so unrealistic. Transoms fail. Even the strongest and the best. Your statement that Yar-Craft has the heaviest transom out there. The Yar-Craft transom is nothing more then 13 or 15 ply no void water proof resin glued plywood. 1.5 inches thick with .25 glass on both sides. My dad's 1960 Glasspar had that. I should call him ,I think that even had 1 knee in it too. A walleye boat puts more stress on a transom then a bass boat. Walleye boats have more weight in the bow i.e. batt.(up to 6), gas tank (Ranger), livewells, baitwells, and gear. Bass boats have most of that in the stern. Then you take say a 225 hp motor, prop it down in pitch from say 26 to a 19 add a four or a five blade compared to the three that most bass boats run. This multiples the torque that is put on the upper transom bolt mounts by far more than a bass boat would. We have to include a walleye boat most likely runs in rougher water, and has less aerodynamic lift. There for a walleye boat should have a stronger transom to handle the increased stress. Let's even include that there is a good chance that the walleye boat will be over trimed because there is so much hull in the water the driver could be pushing the trim a hair much. More trim with a 4 or 5 blade means more PSI on the transom bolts.Sounds like fact to me. So why do all bass boats have bracing and the Yar-Craft has none? You say I bought the wrong boat. Tuffy is a walleye boat. They put a jackplate factory installed and they added bracing for the plate.( i.e. Bass& Walleye mag) Sylvan, (hardly a go fast boat) has a boat that comes factory with a jackplate. They put a big "L" or angle iron piece of steel the length of the transom under the splashwell. I know I called the factory. What's all this bracing stuff going on here. What is all this bracing stuff going on here??? You guy's have a "0"% failure rate with no bracing. I'm right in the target market for a 1785 DC . I know exactly what that boat is and what it was meant for. All it needs is setback ( a small pad would of been nice) You need to stop twisting my words. We all know where I was going with my Corvette analolagy, but you twisted it. As for I wanted to buy a bass boat but my wife would not let me. She just wanted a windsheild I don't really think a bass boat is very practical in Minn. Spring and fall are too cold. Yes, I like to go fast. I would like Allison for a joy ride. But I would never buy a boat like that. As per your post about set back you said the only reason for it is to run in clean water and tweek engine height. You forgot the most important thing. Leverage!, to get that hull out of the water. I personally think the fresh water to the prop theme is very minimal. It's the leverage that get's you the speed. I run a custom DAH Trophy the tip cupping will let you run in so called dirty water. I have my facts straight. I respectfully beg to differ with your comment that I need to get my facts straight. I think it is you guys that need to get your facts straight.( Excluding Paul,He knows the program) You are the ONLY company putting 1960 transom design in 2002 boats. Even Sylvan seems to have more forsight on what's going on in the industry. If you have read my posts, I could write a page + on upper transom transom stress and how the twin radius in your splashwell design is conducive to major flexing and doesn't mean you have stopped upper transom movement i.e. osillation delamination. Like a post said you will finally have to wake up when the V6 four strokes get hung on back and there may be some wanting a jackplate too. Yea as for the guy who said Yar-Crafts are ugly, Tell me who has a better,cooler and awesome looken walk-thru windsheild, only Yar-Craft! Don't ever get rid of that small euro walk-thru windsheild on the 1785 DC. That was another reason I went with Yar-Craft over a Skeeter 1775 DC

[saddle]

sure glad I have a lund!

[The Observer]

I think Tom P has his facts straight and has effectively won this debate. As for Yar-Craft having a 0% failure rate; ask anyone that was at the MWT Bolles Harbor tournament in Monroe in May of 2001. Yes a Yar-Craft 1895 split wide open, and no the driver did not hit anything.

[Brad]

Am I missing something here? This is a quote from Tom P.'s post.

"There is this problem , it is called "oscillation delamination" it happens if you do not have enough bracing. It can take months or years but it is there and it happens to every boat transom. That is why you need bracing to limit it. I have taken a transom out in 2 month with a jackplate and a Merc. 90 hp on a Sylvan Pro Select. IT HAD A TRANSOM KNEE IN IT and it still broke. It also had the SAME wood you guys use." 1.5 inch no void transom plywood"

Seems Tom should be bashing Sylvan, not YarCraft. He is the one that actually experienced a problem with Sylvan. His problem with the YarCraft is that he is worried it might happen. I wonder if he worries about walking across the street every day. He might get hit by a car too.

I am sure we can all take any boat, or any product for that matter, and come up with ideas to make it better, stronger and longer lasting. This goes for anything we buy. I don't see any sense in arguing about this fact.

I bought a YarCraft because I felt it rode and handled better than any other boat out there. I am absolutely thrilled with the boat. Do I worry about something that might or might not happen to the boat? If I spent my life worrying about things that might happen, I'd sit home and hide.

Tom P. if you wanted a faster boat I think you should have bought a bass boat. Apparently, with all the knowledge you posess, you decided on the YarCraft. I think you made a wise choice. So quit yer belly aching.

Tom P., I think Walleye Central has a perfect slogan that applies here. SHUT UP AND GO FISH.

[Dan]

Brad,

Your last line said it all!!! Baaaahahahahahaha. I've seen Gary Gray drive his boat and also seen the type of heavy water he fishes, Erie 1998, and if his boat holds up to that type of punishment, I have no worries about mine. I am sure he puts enough use on his boat in one year than the average guy puts on in years and years of fishing. I plan on buying another YarCraft because I think they are the ultimate walleye boat.

Dan

[Steve]

I have a question for anyone of the YarCraft owners who have responded to this post. Are anyone of you currently running a jackplate on your boat? That is the whole issue here, Tom nor anyone else is saying that YarCrafts transoms are failing apart, its quite the opposite. Tom is a fellow YarCraft owner who loves his boat but would like the option to add a jack plate if he so desires. Tom is the only one on this thread who has presented any facts on the subject and seems to be very knowlegable. I own the Skeeter that Tom choose not to buy(does that mean my boat is bad,no), I could'nt tell you if I have bracing on my transom or not, I bet Tom knows! Tom did'nt start this post and Tom is'nt here looking for a fight, this whole issue is almost a year old now, Tom did'nt dig it up. The only resent posts regarding this topic are all made in fun and at Toms expense. Any regular Walleye Central follower knows that Tom is very passionate on this subject and may get a little carried away from time to time. Tom gets alot of ribbing from the guys on this board(myself included)and has been the butt of more than a few jokes. The guy is a good sport about it and even responds with humor of his own. Tom made his point months ago and has a right as an owner to do so. Lets leave it in the archives, although the jokes are kind of funny and I think a little humor in are lives is a good thing. Everyone is taking this matter way to personal. Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night. :)

[Chevy Owner]

(Sarcasm)

I'm really ticked, I called Chevy today and told them I'm going to use my new suburban to drag race (exceed design specifications - designous extendous) and I want to put one of those Funny Car "wheelie" braces through the back of the cargo doors that prevents the front of the vehicle from coming off the ground and would they continue full warranty. Chevy told me they didn't design my Suburban for that and they would not warranty the product for more than one year of wheelie use. I told them that I could buy other non-Suburban products designed for wheelie bar use. They told me they appreciated my business but to buy a vehicle that was designed for that kind of performance if that's what my heart desired or take my lumps on alterations to the vehicle after a year.

They further offered to even fly me to the factory to see how well the suburbans are made, but I declined because a suburban without a wheelie bar system is not the right design.

Suburbans without this design have driverous pavementitis. Even the head chevy engineer, Ford Mopar, told me that suburbans will really be in trouble when they try to put in the Isuzu diesel, the Allison transmission won't fit. He told me to buy a Ford Excursion w/7.3, but of course I can't get the Allison it either so I'm back to my original conclusion, Chevy should put in a wheelious allowusis.

Merry Christmas
Happy Hannukah
Copasetic Kwanzaa

Sam Kinison
Aaaaargh! Aaaaargh! Aaaaargh! "I was knee deep in rice paddies, while..."

[Tom (mich)]

I WAS at the MWT Bolles Harbor event and did see the boat. It was clearly not a transom failure as is the subject of this post, and furthermore I'm not sure spearing a 6 ft wave at 50 mph qualifies as "not hitting anything" (probably had the same force of the guy in the Starcraft who rammed into the back of the Lund). Completely unrelated to this string.

[RANGER]

;)

[Santa]

Now thats funny. The elves told me the same thing when I wanted to add an F-16 motor to the sleigh. They warned me it wouldn't hold up to that kind of torque for the next 200 years plus Dancer and Prancer might end up with the skis right up their %#@#@. Tom.....give it up ...maybe you should have done some research before you bought the boat...not after. A jack plate is not always the answer plus I haven't seen anyone else on here complaining about Yar Craft transoms in the last 2 years.
Merry Christmas to all !!!

[Its going to be a long winter]

Nobody is picking on the Vikes. Everybody(maybe) wants a jackplate, all I'm doing is watching my FX18DV for broken welds. and happy I didn't buy a Suzuki or whatever everybody feels like bashing this week.

[Gary Gray]

To: Tom P.

Tom, I am making my last reply to this post. I started this off, by offering you a tour of the factory, so you could have the chance to see where and how your boat was made, you declined, and if I would fly you there, you would, I offered to fly you there, and even pick you up at the airport and drive you to the plant, and take you on the tour, You went back on your word and again declined. Heck, I was even going to throw in a trip to Mercury's High Performance engineers at the boathouse, you declined. So, I rest my case, and hope you are happy with your boat.

With all this in the past, I just want to say to you, I wish you a Very Happy Holiday season, and may the Fish God's reward you with a "big Catch". Stay safe, and have a Great Holiday season.

To everyone else on this post, Stay Safe, and have the Best Holiday Season Ever. Merry Christmas to All!!!!!!!!!!!

Gary Gray, #10

[Luther]

So then Corvettes aren't being shipped with shocks now??? :o)

[Tom P]

Good one guys. Yes, I too think we hashed it good. Fairly civil too, I must add. Thanks of course to Steve who knows bring up stuff like this only helps the consumer get better products. And thanks to the rest of you who backed me up too. It must of taken alot to post your name up with mine.When you have guys like the above. Merry Christmas to all!

[Tom P]

Gary, I posted my last post just as you where posting yours. I thank you for the offer. It did go way past what I think any other manufacture would do. And Yar-Craft should be commended for it. But I think I would just see that (thing) with out shocks. Plus getting away from work is not easy at all $. Have a Merry Christmas! Tom

[.]

THE END :)

[curt quesnell]

but then transom tom couldnt impress us all with his transom knowledge that surpasses all the transom knowledge of all the transom engineers at yar-craft and wimpy warrior transom engineering departments.

dont get him started on other parts of boats or we will run out of
room.


curt quesnell

[Fritz]

.........And they all lived happily ever after. .........Unless, God forbid a transom fails, Then look out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Grey Wolf]

Gary

I love my 1895 BT. I have spoke with Merle, Marie, Paul, Bob and even you before. Merle & Marie know me by name. If I rant & rave a little bit will you fly me to Menominee for a tour, and then run me down to the Merc dock? I'll take you up on the offer.

Actually congrats on yout title this year, you deserve it. I am looking forward to your offer. Oh yeah, fly me out of the twin cities.

[Chevy Owner]

They are welding Fiberglass boats, cool.

Fiberglasseous weldisus

hehe

[WCoyote]

LUND

[srj]

Grey Wolf, thanks for your assistance in my boat search. I'm heading for Nisswa on Sat--Mikes 1895 is in the lower level--I need to look once more before I buy. Plus he ran a 115 Yammie. Can I go with to Michigan? I could fly right out of Bemidji. Plus I think a backtroller would look really cool with some custom wheelie braces in the transom as long as they were mounted in the right place and I would like to give the factory a bit of help in positioning them.

Happy Holidays to all.

[Grey Wolf]

Gary hasn't responded yet, but I am sure that he will. I am hoping to get a big spoiler on the back of my boat!!!!!

Good luck in Nissawa, you'll be happy with the 1895 BT, Mike willt take care of you.

[Wondering]

How can you say that you have only been passed by 2 boats in the last 5 years? There are other boat companies represented in the PWT that are alot faster? Tell me if I am wrong.