View Full Version : Big Stone Cancellation
MWC Fisherman
05-23-2001, 02:45 AM
Has anything been done about the last day cancellation with 2 hrs left. Many teams came in while some stayed out and fished. The fishing was going good when the wind started, and we were told to go in.
Juls_WI
05-23-2001, 04:39 AM
I don't understand what your asking. If you were told to go in, you should have gone in and weighed what you had. Did you do that? Did you miss out on the weigh in? What's up?
Juls
Hi Juls, TC here ( I think you know who I am? mich.) What happened was that they did cancel the tourney at around 2pm ( weigh-in was 3pm till 3:30pm) and told everyone to come in on the radio. some people came in right away but others, whether they didn't hear or didn't acknowledge it fished till 3pm or till 3:30pm depending on their weighin time. The fish were biting good when the wind hit and those that stayed out caught fish and were allowed to weigh them in. We came in and lost out on 1.5 hrs. fishing time which would have helped us big time with the way the fish were biting in the wind.
Juls_WI
05-23-2001, 05:18 AM
Ok, now I understand. HHHmmmmmm......
What was the call over the radio? What were the exact words used? I'm just curious.
Juls
Walleye Professor
05-23-2001, 06:07 AM
If people heard the call to get off the water "NOW" and stayed out they definitely cheated. But, it is possible that some boats up on the North end of the lake didn't recieve the transmission. It is also possible that they weren't listening to their radios because they didn't think the tournament would be stopped.
Or it is possible they were fishing on the south end of the lake and heard the report to cancel but fished an extra 45 minutes to an hour, and then said they were way up north and it took them that long to get in. I have heard that scenario from some of the anglers. If this is true, something needs to be done with the rules in these situations to make it fair for everyone. I'm not sure how you would do that though.
Nofish
05-23-2001, 10:25 AM
Hey Gang,
I thought all radios had to be on. Maybe I am wrong though, they implimented the radio rule as I stopped fishing the circuit. But I always kept mine on.
Maybe in the future, patrol boats should also continuously relay the message for all to hear. If distance was indeed a problem.
But I agree, if the tourney was cancelled and some who heard the cancellation stayed out, they were 100% wrong. But how to prove that?? Hmmmmmm.........
Just thinkin........R
or possibly the MWC just wanted to cover their b-hind and could care less about weigh in. Boat goes down at 2:45 after call in, not our fault!
We never realized the tourney had been cancelled early until we
talked to the director when we dropped off our fish.The reason
being we were to for up the lake.He told us they had a relay
around Schmit Landing but the transmission never got to us.
We had our radio on all the time.We did hear static come across
3 or 4 times but could not understand it.We surely did not
benefit from staying out because it took us an hour to get in anyway and we were the last flight on Sunday.When we came bt Schmitt we heard someone say there are still boatd coming down the lake.We assumed that was there relay man.But your right about the fish biting when the storm hit we probably would have done
better if it would have waited a couple hours its hard to do
our thing in 4 ft waves.We never felt we were in danger out there
but we support there decision.We always feel safe in our Ranger
Boat.
Till Green Bay, See Ya
no....when we came in....we told the wildlife forever director and frank that guys were still out there fishing....said many were fishing on the south end (and i mean VERY south end) when we were all coming in....the WF director said that the mwc guys should not have been weighing in the fish and he did not know why they were doing it....cuz of all the guys not following the call and getting their extra 1.5 hrs time when the fishing picked up....in fact there were several guys complaining about the fact that people deliberately came in at 3:30 fishing their extra 1.5 hrs but mwc did nothing about it....it was pretty unfair and poorly enforced
just looking at the weather you'd have to think it would maybe be canceled...there was thunder, lightning, hail, rain, and 45 mph winds...and the rule was that radios are on at all times
gonfishn95
05-23-2001, 11:19 AM
We had our radio on and never heard the cancel notice my thought is once it is a go and you are on the water, leave it as such, This is the first time a tournament has been cancelled that I know of in the 14 years being called, that I have fished the MWC WE CAME IN approx 45 mins early and did not know it was called.
It did turn nasty but not that nasty, If this is going to be a continuing way of running things lets all stay home. On A BIG BODY of water it is hard to get to everyone. I do know that the last boat came in at 3:25.
We talked to another boat on SAT. with our radio when we broke down and when we tried later on and we could see him on the lake running he could not hear us. and also could not raise the MWC base and another boat had to relay for us we would be late.
I guess my point is they all have different ranges and reception having them does not meen everyone is going to hear these announcements.
Leave it up to the angler to go to shore pretty much the way it has been thru the years.
Larry Dawson NPAA 273
Scott
05-23-2001, 05:45 PM
If the mwc is going to call a tournament in the middle of a tournament day, no fish should have been weighed for that day. It should have been paid out on the 1st day standings.
Reason 1 Because of the way the boats were flighted out the 1st flight has 1/2 hour more fishing time
Reason 2 It is obvious to a person who has used a marine radio that on a 25 mile long lake that you are not going to be able to get a hold of everyone
Reason 3 The fish of the people who fished to the end were weighed the same as the people who did come in when the tournament was called.
Reason 4 If this would have been a no cull tournament (which it was with a 6 fish cushion) people could have been throwing fish back thinking that they have more time. ( I dont think this was a problem here but on another body of water with no cushion it would be a huge problem)
I am not saying this because it would benefit me, actually we climbed 10 places on the 2nd day.
I didn't agree with the cancellation of this tournament but if it was to happen again I would hope that it would be handled in a more professional matter.
After all this is a "professional walleye curcuit"
Scott
Bayside
05-24-2001, 05:25 AM
If the day was cancelled early none of the weights for the second day count, or the boats that did not return in a timely fashion should be DQ'ed, but that hardly seems fair, based on the limited reception of marine radios. The MWC needs to adopt a rule and stick to it, they have already alienated enough anglers. There is money on the line and everybody should have to play by the same rules! I am curiously awaiting the MWC's response to this issue. Also how was the payout structured with only 134(?) boats.
pwuebker
05-24-2001, 05:47 AM
Big Stone was a challenge to say the least.
I'd like to clarify a few points.
Why Call The Tournament?
I've heard any number of anglers say that they've fished stronger winds and bigger water and no doubt that's true. But those weren't the only issues, although they were important factors. We have to take inconsideration all the anglers and not just those with big water experience.
In addition to the wind and stinging rain, visibility at times was almost zero, there was a good amount of lightening and I've been told even a couple of tornadoes. While I'm not all that familiar with Big Stone, there are few bays and places to take shelter. Pulling over to the shore would help, but as one who has canoed numerous wide rivers, it is the trees along the banks that take many of the lightening strikes.
Radio Reception and Distance
The MWC base station was not powerful enough to reach all the way to the end of the lake. That's why arrangements were made with a local gentleman who lives high above the lake a few miles down. He has a permenant and strong base station that has proven it can reach to the end of the lake. When the tournament was cancelled, information was broadcast from the MWC base station and relayed through the hilltop station. Messages were sent back and forth from anglers to the hilltop station down to MWC and then back. Cancellation broadcasts were made every few minutes starting at 2:15.
Teams Still Fishing
Due to the howling wind or where a team had placed their radio (if a portable) it's possible they still did not hear the radio. And I've heard that a few teams had seen teams still fishing after the call.
If it was me, I would have pulled up to the other team and yelled or radioed to them that the tournament had been called as it was possible they hadn't heard. If they still continued to fish, I would have noted which team it was and turned them in at the weigh in. Thus far, not one team I've heard from had made any attempt to ensure the still fishing team got the message. Additionally, there were no formal complaints about specific teams.
It's one thing to generally gripe about the situation, particularly after the fact, and it's quite another to do the logical thing.
I can say that we took note of those teams we felt came in late but couldn't prove it. In reviewing their placement in the final standings, none were close to the money.
Policy To Come
It might interest all to know this was the first MWC tournament to be called (Kaz stopped by here for a lengthy visit yesterday).
When the wind first came up, I reviewed both the published rules and the tournament directors handbook. There has been no formal policy regarding cancelled tournaments.
A policy will be created and announced at the Bay De Noc Tournament. We will review the policies of other tournaments and discuss them with those on the anglers advisory commitee.
Missing Something When You Got Home?
I'll make a separate post, but a very large tackle box flew out of someone's boat during the storm. Call Greg Peterson at Ortonville ((320) 839-2323). If you can describe it, it's yours.
jigger
05-24-2001, 09:15 AM
I can't believe it! terribly run tournament. no excuses, it's to bad use to be a professional run tourney not no more. feel very saddened!
You state that when the wind kicked up you reviewed the written rules. You did not find a stated policy on cancelling the tourny.
So you just made up the rules as you went?? Nice try.
LAST EDITED ON May-24-01 AT 11:54AM (CST)[p]And if 2 or 3 boats would have gone round-side-up, or somebodies graphite lightning rod got illuminated, you'd be screaming about "why didn't management cancel the T".
I applaud him for erring on the side of safety.
Love always,
Hans
Hans, see my first post. If the MWC was covering b-hind, then why not just come out and say so? Admit they screwed up big time and refund everyone's entry fee.
Everyone signs a waiver. That's in the rules.
Anyone can go to shore during unsafe weather. That's in the rules.
Cancelling a tourney because the director felt like it is not in the rules.
Of course they were covering their behind, as they OUGHT to!
Essentially they are saying "We think it's dangerous to continue tournament fishing under these weather conditions -- if you continue to fish, you're on your own."
Hans
OK, then why did'nt they broadcast that message over the radio? Fish at your own risk from this point on??
No, they called off the tourney. And that stinks!
Because they can't. If there were to have allowed the tournament to continue in dangerous weather, saying "fish at your own risk" they would have been encouranging people to stay out to catch more fish to weigh, even thought they admit that conditions are dangerous. By calling the tournament, there's no incentive to stay out in dangerous conditions. A statement such as you suggest would reflect very poorly on the MWC and would tell me that they're more interested in the tournament continuing than they are in the safety of the participants.
I think if it gets dangerous, you call it, and if some dishonest people stay out, everyone else writes down their boat numbers, and turns them in.
Eyez
JWilson
05-24-2001, 10:41 AM
Pete, I think you made the right call. I was contacted by a 620 letting me know the tournament was called. It has always been said that fishermen where the biggest whinners, now you can see what he was talking about. You are d*mned if you do d*mned if you don't. I can not see how you can be blamed for teams that ignored the call back to port. How you can be expected to know that a boat that arrived at 3:00 was running back from the north end or from Kite island, that I do not understand. I wish those that care to voice thier all knowing opionions would try and run a tournament, then let us blast them for how is ran. I am tired and ashamed of the junk that is thrown out here by internet tournment directors. You are doing the best you can and I personally appreciate the effort you are putting into the circuit. You could not pay me enough to take your job. Maybe some of these "experts" would be willing to run Little Bay for you. You have faced a very challenging year so far, and there is a lot of year left. Keep the chin up Pete, there are those that respect the effort you have put forth.
Eyes,
No, you play by the rules. The rules everyone agreed to BEFORE the tounament. Don't make them up as you go along.
I agree. I'm not arguing that point, I'm just saying that they could not say "fish at your own risk", A fisherman should not be rewarded with a tournament win because he was stupid and stayed out in dangerous weather. They had to call it, but they also should have had better rules dictating what is to happen in the event of a mid day cancellation. I don't know what the MWC rulebook says about mid day cancellations, but if it says nothing at all, as it appears, then they had no choice but to make up the rules as they went along. Allowing a tournament to continue in dangerous conditions just because the rulebook doesn't say anything would be quite irresponsible, and definitely worse than cancelling it. I do think though, that in such a situation, that the weights for that day should have been thrown out, to keep everything fair.
Eyez
GONFISHN95
05-24-2001, 11:09 AM
I agree with Jwilson you are doing all you can do ****ed if you do and ****ed if you don't, And to the whinners use your name don't be ashamed to stand up and be known. This is the first time for calling one that I recall but what the heck there is always a first time for everything. As I said earlier We did not hear the call and we took our time coming in, I broke down the first day and they called the 2nd day can I have a refund We fished it is done. move on.
Larry Dawson NPAA 273
>I can't believe it! terribly run
>tournament. no excuses, it's to
>bad use to be a
>professional run tourney not no
>more. feel very saddened!
Then please don't come back!
>Anyone can go to shore during
>unsafe weather. That's in the
>rules.
>
Ever try to go to shore on big stone? It's tough beaching a boat on 3 foot boulders.
As a matter of fact I have.....
Plenty of docks, (Public & Private)
Plenty of Resorts.
In addition to that, you could go weigh in early, on your own accord.
jigger
05-24-2001, 12:04 PM
bart you must not fish big stone very much theres not big bolders on all the shore lines. there's plenty of room to pull up on shore anywhere. another thing you must not fish many tournaments by reading some of your post.
jigger
05-24-2001, 12:05 PM
READ MY LIPS--READ THE RULES!!!!!
OK oh wise one, how did you come to that conclusion about Bart not fishing many tournaments, I seem to have missed that one.
Juls_WI
05-24-2001, 02:45 PM
LAST EDITED ON May-24-01 AT 05:10PM (CST)[p]Well said JWilson. Pete, you did the right thing, but it would have been better to throw out the second day in my opinion. It would have been fair. Maybe you could put that in the new rules for cancellation days? Chalk up the experience as a "lesson learned".
One team that would have benefited would have been the "girl" team, for example. They had a good first day (6th place), and if I know Jenn, she and Ginny played by the rules and came in when called. Making it unfair if they lost an hour and a half of fishing while some anglers stayed out to catch more fish, and move up the ladder. I know how gutzy she is, and if she didn't get the call, she would have stayed out there.
All we can do is live and learn from events that happen in our lives. This is no exception. I'm sure that Wildlife Forever will come up with fair and complete rules in the near future. I have no doubts. Keep up the good work Pete and everyone else that helps out at these tournaments. It seems to be a thankless job lately. You work hard, so we can enjoy our favortie hobby, and you get slapped in the face.
For those that want to sit behind your keyboard anonymously and bash the MWC:
"Stuff" happens, and this was an "elephant load!" Move forward, and help make it better with constructive critisizm or just sit there and piss and moan. Your choice.
Because I'm in the mood to "vent", and the childish stuff that has been on this board lately is making me crabby....I just want to say, that I'm saddend to see so many tournament anglers acting out in such unsportsmanlike behavior. Then again, I'm sure the ones acting out are not, and never were, true sportsman.
Julia Davis
NPAA #231
jay and jigger what place did you finish? Big stone is 99 percent rocky shoreline, you arn't welcome at my dock, I've fished Big stone for 40 years and this ain't peoplewhogotteasedtomuchinschoolsotheypretendtobea procentral.com It's walleyecentral.com Oh and btw a dumbass says what?
And how many nicks do you need to use? Funny they all start with a J.
Walleye professor
05-25-2001, 04:16 AM
Pull your boat to shore????? Put it on a dock????? How in the ##### were you going to hold it. When the wind blows from the Northwest on Big Stone, there is not many places to "hide" unless you were already behind the islands or behind the south side of the peninsula. Two guys standing in the water trying to "hold" your boat would have been useless. MWC made the call to cancel and at that point everyone should have had a half hour to weigh their fish or they should have been DQ'ed.
Whats the first thing you do when you have lightning?? TAKE DOWN YOUR RADIO ANTENNA!!
Jiggereye
05-25-2001, 04:29 AM
In my short time as a tournament director, I have learned two things. #1 It's the JWilsons of the sport that make being a director worth while. #2 Absolutely nothing is more important than the safety of the fisherpersons involved. Especially in a Series with so many experience and boating skills levels you had no choice. It is unfortunate that some teams "may" have been affected negatively, but that is not your number one responsibility. Being a tournament angler, sure I may have been disappointed, but nobody could think that such a call was anything but a step to protect your anglers. I'm sure you would do it again in a second. I'm also sure that you will resolve the other issues brought up, so that in the future, everybody will know this might happen again, and what to do. Keep up the good work. Lawrence
This tourney did not have numbers on the motors like normal and alot of tourney boats do not have reg. #'s.
My comments were directed at jigger and his expert conclussion on you not fishing tournaments. I was in the top 35 with four fish on Sunday. I could very easily whine that I lost the chance to catch that fifth fish on Sunday because I heeded the call to come in early thus missed a check, but hey life always throws you curves, and you roll with the punches. I totally agree with the MWCs call, I might not agree with those that stayed out knowing the tournament was called but how to determine those that knew and those that did not.
I agree about the rocks on the lake, the only place I would feel safe coming into would be Bayview, there is a very good reason they call it Big Stone Lake.
Rockbanger
05-25-2001, 09:26 AM
I applaud MWC for calling day 2. Conditions were not safe, we had a gulp over the bow and a gulp over the transom. Some of us let competitiveness rule over common sense but that is an individual choice. My concern was swamping our boat while landing at the south end as well as lightning. We were on the south end of the lake and did not hear the radio, probably due to motor running, wind and the pounding rain. Another boat informed us of the cancelled day - at that point I had enough of the weather anyway. It is my understanding that when a day is called on the PWT all weights are forfeited for that day - either way it does seem the simpliest and fairest way to judge the day.
Scott Richardson
05-26-2001, 07:26 AM
No sure about this one. If tournament directors think it's unsafe, they have a duty to call it. But what to do about the fish, especially if not everyone comes in. We know how we are. We will stay out in a gail to place higher in a tournament.
I guess I agree with the posts who say that the whole day should be a wash if a portion is called. Only fair way to reward those who hear and obey the call-in and encourage everyone else to do likewise. Take away the incentive to stay out there.
I also agree...some posting on here is getting too personal and nasty. The original spirit of the place was to share information and have a good time. Time to get back to basics.
Thanks,
Scott
Common Sense
05-26-2001, 05:59 PM
Want to get back to the basics? Get rid of this tournament fishing. People start putting their bank account before their own safety. Would anyone stay out out there in those conditions if there wasn't some money to be made? I don't think so. Back to basics...I couldn't agree more.
spurticus
05-27-2001, 10:01 AM
I agree that everyone should calm down and have fun again. If you spend $40,000 to make $500 you should at least have some fun and smile a little.
Scott Richardson
05-28-2001, 03:17 AM
Tournament fishing has given us many positive things. The boats we have today, including livewells and safety gear, resulted from designs that were made to accomodate tournament anglers. The need to use safety equipment like cutoff switches has been underscored at tournaments. New designs for hulls and motors are tested at tournaments. Much of what we know about fish behavior was first discovered or fine-tuned by tournament anglers. Tackle and presentation innovations are discovered and tested on tournament circuits. Catch and release became popularized by tournament anglers. And, the list goes on. Tournaments are the basics. They need apologize to no one.
mwcer
05-28-2001, 03:38 PM
scott r you must not be a tournament fisherman. rules are rules.
Scott Richardson
05-28-2001, 06:14 PM
I fish my share of tournaments. But that aside, what in the heck are you talking about? I have no idea.
Scott Roelke
05-28-2001, 08:45 PM
Many of us have fished Big Stone and know very well how fast it changes.I am a local and unfortunatly was unable to enter the tourney this year.But I strongly agree with cancelling the tournament due to the weather that came up. Luckily nobody was hurt.I do feel that the weights for day 2 should be thrown out.Due to the fact that many teams may have fished longer than others.But I feel that the day should be rescheduled the next day.If the weather was to bad to begin the tourney the it would have been postponed.
My compliments to Wildlife forever,MWC anglers,and all volunteers that make these tournaments come together,Thank you for bring excitement, and enjoyment to all anglers involved (if you don't enjoy it don't fish) all the spectators and creating better fishing all around by promoting sportmanship, fishing ethics,and programs to help the lakes maintain or increase there quality.
Thanks again
Sincerly
Scott Roelke