steve(IL)
04-04-2002, 03:21 PM
Some folks have gotten on me for asking this question. A few things in
my defense first - I never post under any name but my own. I've met a fair number of people who post here regularly. It's interesting that critics often post under false names. I also stated my bias regarding Rangers at the very beginning of the post.
I've owned a Tuffy, a couple low end tiller Lunds, and currently
a smaller Warrior. I've looked at used Rangers and genuinely considered purchasing a used one. Despite what you may think, I would consider buying a Ranger - new or used. I have the resources.
I am against hype. I do appreciate having the right tool for a given job. I've made my living selling tools in a very cost competitive environment where every dollar spent has to be justified. I would say that a boat qualifies as a tool. When I asked my question, I was asking about the technical stuff. Personally, I'm not interested in the image or emotional aspects.
There were a number of good responses to my original post. Thank you.
I think the best response I got was from Red Ranger. Thank you for taking the time Red. Here's what Red said:
"Well, I would like to clarify something. Back when I purchased my first Ranger, I too was curious how Ranger was making several boats at
one time, and still said "Built one at a time." The answer is really very simple. No Ranger is built until a specific order has been put in. There are literally no stock level or standard color boats built.
Even with the standard features built in, each and every boat must be ordered and the order filled out, item by item. Even if a dealer is buying a boat or two to put on the floor with no order behind them, they are ordered individually with every detail specified by the dealer ordering. Each boat ordered and built to exact order description. One order one boat, built one at a time.
Also there are never 2 or 3 or 7 of any one model all lined up and having a certain proceedure done, as an example, transom bracing. Each
boat is done individually by the transom installers and each and every
transom and transom bracing is set in by hand, and fitted for that exact boat.
That is the type of situation that follows all Rangers."
(Red, I'm Joe Blow who fishes 50 days a year. Why do I need custom or semi-custom? It's not free. As a matter of fact, it adds considerably to the cost of manufacturing. Regarding hand fitting braces, etc. - there is much hand work in building any glass boat and even aluminum boats. Ranger is not unique in this regard.)
Quality of construction.
I will not name any other brand here, as how they build their boats is up to them. Their customer satisfaction level is their concern.
(Red, you're intimating that some MFG's are a step down. Any manufacturer - whether it's Boeing, Ford, Tracker or even Ranger can run into QC problems. You're right though - companies today live or die based on their reputation. There are a gazillion satisfied boat owners out there who don't have a Ranger. Is there a problem somewhere
that we should know about?)
However, how many other walleye or bass boats have the hull cap, bonded to the hull the entire length of the boat?
(I'm not an engineer, but the above point raises questions in my mind.
On the plus side, I imagine this adds rigidity which is good. On the down side, what happens when the boat flexes going over waves? What is
stronger - The glue/joint or the glass of the hull? Which will crack first? Does the bonded joint have the same flex characteristics as the
glass? If not, that creates a lot of localized stress in that area...)
How many other boats have the floor and inner cap as one solid piece? Or have the floor and cap bonded to any part that touches the stringers or inner hull?
(I think this has to do with rigidity again. What would this do for me
and why do I need it? I know many boats ride as well or better than Rangers - somehow they are accomplishing the same thing. Other boats feel just as solid. They are either doing the same thing or something that works equally well.)
Then there is the foam flotation. You know how much Ranger uses there, especially if you have ever tried to run wires and such, yourself.
(The Coast Guard has strict regulations on flotation that all MFG's have to meet. Are you suggesting other boats are unsafe? If yes, which
ones? How much weight does this add?)
Ranger does things many others do not. As an example. Between every layer of fiberglass, black paint is applied before the next layer is set up. Why? One it makes a better looking boat and does not allow sunlight to penetrate, but more importantly, it allows the lay up crew to see every little bubble and void as the baots are hand rolled. Each layer is hand rolled, chop or roving.
(I'll take your word for it. How much does this cost?)
In the strakes, longitudinal fiberglass is layed for super strength. Many other brands may use putty or heavy resin compounds. Next time at a sport show, ask to see the sample of these rsin cased fibers. You can beat it against a steel pillar and it will not break.
(Every MFG's boats take a pounding every day and don't come apart. We'd see it at the PWT and on our own lakes if they did. It's clear that other boats are built tough too.)
Livewells and storage boxes. Bonded to the underside of the cap/floor. They are also bonded to the inner hull or completely surrounded by foam flotation. Will your dealer allow you to satnd in a livewell or jump up and down in one? I can in mine and I am a big feller.
(My livewell is extremely well insulated and I have no desire to stand
in it. Why do I need a livewell I can stand in anyway?)
Run your hand under the edge of a livewell opening, in any boat, then a Ranger. Stick your hands into storage compartments, and up near where the bok liner touches the deck. In most cases the Ranger will not fill your hand full of slivers. All these areas are cleaned up and painted for a better appearance and fit and finish.
(I just came in from the garage. I ran my hands around the inside of the livewell, baitwell & storage. All I found were smooth edges and no
splinters. I can only tell you what I found. Maybe other boats are like you described. Sounds like you should check your facts though.)
Consoles are bolted and bonded in place. Most have to be fitted to each individual boat, even with the close tolerances in engineering. Speaking of which, if Ranger has 4 molds and 4 cap molds for a specific model, they are all numbered. However the tolerances are so tight that a hull from mold 4 can have a deck/cap from mold 2 dropped right in place. Ranger also only uses a mold for a specific amount of time ar as soon as the product begins to show any deviation from the original master mold.
(My console is still exactly where it was put in '95. I don't hear any
stories about consoles flying out of other boats either.)
Livewell lids are not laid up fiberglass or aluminum. They are a composite sandwich of materials that are stronger and lighter than glass or aluminum alone. Their construction also gives them insulating ability. A strong plus on the livewells and cooler lids.
(The aluminum lids on my boat are just like new. What's wrong with aluminum? How much more $$$ for the composite?)
All hardware, all of it is corrosion resistant stainless steel. Stainless screws, stainless hinges and the like. Up front in the wiring area of the bow there is a power strip to facilitate riggin electronics, there are one or two under te dash as well.
(Adding buss bars is a nice touch. I enjoy rigging my own boats and have done the same thing.)
Every seat is custom made for each boat. The fishing chairs use a Tempress seat fram. Ranger does all the padding and upholstery. Bass boat seats are made from all composite frames and the same padding and upholstry. The vinyl used is some of the best on the market. The carpet is a heavier pile and better uv resistant than many, if not most of the other brands.
(My '95 low-end Warrior has Tempress seats and the vinyl looks great. So does the carpet - I do wash and vacuum it regularly though)
The fiberglass and polyflake colors. Each ranger has multiple striping and color schemes. Each selected by the buyer or the dealer. Each color application is called a spray. The hull is hand masked for each and every different color. A commanche bass boat can have in the neighborhood of 15 sprays. That is completely masking the hull 15 times. That is very labor intensive stuff. Yes other brands may have complicated color schemes, but few as diverse as Ranger.
(Red w/ black pinstripe or black w/ red pinstripe it's still a 620,
619, etc.)
Lets talk about the trailer. The trailer shop builds every trailer to order as well. Each and every trailer is built exactly for the boat model that it cradles. They do not build a run of trailers and then adjust bunks as needed.
The finish on a Rangertrail trailer is unbelieveably tough. The paint and primers are infared heat cured in an oven that bakes the finish on from the inside out. I have owned a few differnt brands of boat trailers as well as boats atop them. None, and I am speaking from personal experience, none have weathered as well as the Rangertrail. All the standard features on the trailers and the ability to color customise them down to the pinstriping is amazing. The axles are set up to allow for the average crown on the roadways of the country, thereby allowing better tire wear.
(I think KD made some of the best trailers ever built. It broke my heart to hear they stopped making trailers. I'm sure there are some good tarilers out there. After all, trailers are not rocket science. You make a good point though, having it set up at the factory probably
does improve the fit. The trailer on the '94 690 I looked at was rusting in the same types of places I saw on other trailers of similar
vintage.)
Lastly, I still am willing to take issue with the price point. Rangers are not much more expensive than other boats. When you compare apples to apples. A 20 foot boat must be compared to another 20 foot boat. Same options, same electronics, same power plant etc. You will see there are not many top end boat lines to far away from Rangers pricing.
(I've wondered to myself if a 20' walleye boat really needs to cost
$40k plus. I believe it's true that other manufacturers have stepped up their fit and finish to stay competitive with Ranger. Ranger clearly aims at the high end though.)
As I said, I have owned a lot of brands and a lot of boats. Ranger is the only one I have ever owned more than one of. I have never been in a more solid stable boat. Obviously many anglers who are in the market for a big glass boat feel the same way. There were over 80 Rangers in the recent MWC tourney at Spring Valley. There were 210 boats in that one. That is an impressive number to me at least.
(I'm not sure the RCL is such a good thing. I wouldn't want to only be
able to choose from R,C or L. It puts competitive fisherman under a lot of pressure to buy a boat that qualifies. A very smart marketing ploy to be sure. Ranger makes a ton of Pro-staff boats available as evidenced by the amount of turnover of late model boats. Lower tier competitive fisherman buy them up - maybe to appear more credible?
Isn't it true that R, C, or L boats have to be newer than 3 years old to qualify - or something like that? That insures competitors will have to keep trading up and puts a bunch of used stuff out there. Again, a very smart marketing ploy.)
Hey, I have always said, any boat brand is not for everyone, and every boat is as good as the owners perception of it. But these are all reasons (above) why I chose Ranger.
(I agree.... and maybe those same reasons are why I haven't bought a Ranger yet?)
BTW Steve, it is nice to have you back again, it was awful quiet at times without your thought provoking posts. Have a good one!
(Thanks Red. I did enjoy my stint in Wyoming - but it kept me hopping.)
(p.s. Some things you didn't touch on. I've heard people here on the board refer to 620's - maybe Rangers in general - as bow heavy. What do you attribute this to? Also, I've read here that Rangers are slower
with the same engine/propellor than other boats. Is this true?)
my defense first - I never post under any name but my own. I've met a fair number of people who post here regularly. It's interesting that critics often post under false names. I also stated my bias regarding Rangers at the very beginning of the post.
I've owned a Tuffy, a couple low end tiller Lunds, and currently
a smaller Warrior. I've looked at used Rangers and genuinely considered purchasing a used one. Despite what you may think, I would consider buying a Ranger - new or used. I have the resources.
I am against hype. I do appreciate having the right tool for a given job. I've made my living selling tools in a very cost competitive environment where every dollar spent has to be justified. I would say that a boat qualifies as a tool. When I asked my question, I was asking about the technical stuff. Personally, I'm not interested in the image or emotional aspects.
There were a number of good responses to my original post. Thank you.
I think the best response I got was from Red Ranger. Thank you for taking the time Red. Here's what Red said:
"Well, I would like to clarify something. Back when I purchased my first Ranger, I too was curious how Ranger was making several boats at
one time, and still said "Built one at a time." The answer is really very simple. No Ranger is built until a specific order has been put in. There are literally no stock level or standard color boats built.
Even with the standard features built in, each and every boat must be ordered and the order filled out, item by item. Even if a dealer is buying a boat or two to put on the floor with no order behind them, they are ordered individually with every detail specified by the dealer ordering. Each boat ordered and built to exact order description. One order one boat, built one at a time.
Also there are never 2 or 3 or 7 of any one model all lined up and having a certain proceedure done, as an example, transom bracing. Each
boat is done individually by the transom installers and each and every
transom and transom bracing is set in by hand, and fitted for that exact boat.
That is the type of situation that follows all Rangers."
(Red, I'm Joe Blow who fishes 50 days a year. Why do I need custom or semi-custom? It's not free. As a matter of fact, it adds considerably to the cost of manufacturing. Regarding hand fitting braces, etc. - there is much hand work in building any glass boat and even aluminum boats. Ranger is not unique in this regard.)
Quality of construction.
I will not name any other brand here, as how they build their boats is up to them. Their customer satisfaction level is their concern.
(Red, you're intimating that some MFG's are a step down. Any manufacturer - whether it's Boeing, Ford, Tracker or even Ranger can run into QC problems. You're right though - companies today live or die based on their reputation. There are a gazillion satisfied boat owners out there who don't have a Ranger. Is there a problem somewhere
that we should know about?)
However, how many other walleye or bass boats have the hull cap, bonded to the hull the entire length of the boat?
(I'm not an engineer, but the above point raises questions in my mind.
On the plus side, I imagine this adds rigidity which is good. On the down side, what happens when the boat flexes going over waves? What is
stronger - The glue/joint or the glass of the hull? Which will crack first? Does the bonded joint have the same flex characteristics as the
glass? If not, that creates a lot of localized stress in that area...)
How many other boats have the floor and inner cap as one solid piece? Or have the floor and cap bonded to any part that touches the stringers or inner hull?
(I think this has to do with rigidity again. What would this do for me
and why do I need it? I know many boats ride as well or better than Rangers - somehow they are accomplishing the same thing. Other boats feel just as solid. They are either doing the same thing or something that works equally well.)
Then there is the foam flotation. You know how much Ranger uses there, especially if you have ever tried to run wires and such, yourself.
(The Coast Guard has strict regulations on flotation that all MFG's have to meet. Are you suggesting other boats are unsafe? If yes, which
ones? How much weight does this add?)
Ranger does things many others do not. As an example. Between every layer of fiberglass, black paint is applied before the next layer is set up. Why? One it makes a better looking boat and does not allow sunlight to penetrate, but more importantly, it allows the lay up crew to see every little bubble and void as the baots are hand rolled. Each layer is hand rolled, chop or roving.
(I'll take your word for it. How much does this cost?)
In the strakes, longitudinal fiberglass is layed for super strength. Many other brands may use putty or heavy resin compounds. Next time at a sport show, ask to see the sample of these rsin cased fibers. You can beat it against a steel pillar and it will not break.
(Every MFG's boats take a pounding every day and don't come apart. We'd see it at the PWT and on our own lakes if they did. It's clear that other boats are built tough too.)
Livewells and storage boxes. Bonded to the underside of the cap/floor. They are also bonded to the inner hull or completely surrounded by foam flotation. Will your dealer allow you to satnd in a livewell or jump up and down in one? I can in mine and I am a big feller.
(My livewell is extremely well insulated and I have no desire to stand
in it. Why do I need a livewell I can stand in anyway?)
Run your hand under the edge of a livewell opening, in any boat, then a Ranger. Stick your hands into storage compartments, and up near where the bok liner touches the deck. In most cases the Ranger will not fill your hand full of slivers. All these areas are cleaned up and painted for a better appearance and fit and finish.
(I just came in from the garage. I ran my hands around the inside of the livewell, baitwell & storage. All I found were smooth edges and no
splinters. I can only tell you what I found. Maybe other boats are like you described. Sounds like you should check your facts though.)
Consoles are bolted and bonded in place. Most have to be fitted to each individual boat, even with the close tolerances in engineering. Speaking of which, if Ranger has 4 molds and 4 cap molds for a specific model, they are all numbered. However the tolerances are so tight that a hull from mold 4 can have a deck/cap from mold 2 dropped right in place. Ranger also only uses a mold for a specific amount of time ar as soon as the product begins to show any deviation from the original master mold.
(My console is still exactly where it was put in '95. I don't hear any
stories about consoles flying out of other boats either.)
Livewell lids are not laid up fiberglass or aluminum. They are a composite sandwich of materials that are stronger and lighter than glass or aluminum alone. Their construction also gives them insulating ability. A strong plus on the livewells and cooler lids.
(The aluminum lids on my boat are just like new. What's wrong with aluminum? How much more $$$ for the composite?)
All hardware, all of it is corrosion resistant stainless steel. Stainless screws, stainless hinges and the like. Up front in the wiring area of the bow there is a power strip to facilitate riggin electronics, there are one or two under te dash as well.
(Adding buss bars is a nice touch. I enjoy rigging my own boats and have done the same thing.)
Every seat is custom made for each boat. The fishing chairs use a Tempress seat fram. Ranger does all the padding and upholstery. Bass boat seats are made from all composite frames and the same padding and upholstry. The vinyl used is some of the best on the market. The carpet is a heavier pile and better uv resistant than many, if not most of the other brands.
(My '95 low-end Warrior has Tempress seats and the vinyl looks great. So does the carpet - I do wash and vacuum it regularly though)
The fiberglass and polyflake colors. Each ranger has multiple striping and color schemes. Each selected by the buyer or the dealer. Each color application is called a spray. The hull is hand masked for each and every different color. A commanche bass boat can have in the neighborhood of 15 sprays. That is completely masking the hull 15 times. That is very labor intensive stuff. Yes other brands may have complicated color schemes, but few as diverse as Ranger.
(Red w/ black pinstripe or black w/ red pinstripe it's still a 620,
619, etc.)
Lets talk about the trailer. The trailer shop builds every trailer to order as well. Each and every trailer is built exactly for the boat model that it cradles. They do not build a run of trailers and then adjust bunks as needed.
The finish on a Rangertrail trailer is unbelieveably tough. The paint and primers are infared heat cured in an oven that bakes the finish on from the inside out. I have owned a few differnt brands of boat trailers as well as boats atop them. None, and I am speaking from personal experience, none have weathered as well as the Rangertrail. All the standard features on the trailers and the ability to color customise them down to the pinstriping is amazing. The axles are set up to allow for the average crown on the roadways of the country, thereby allowing better tire wear.
(I think KD made some of the best trailers ever built. It broke my heart to hear they stopped making trailers. I'm sure there are some good tarilers out there. After all, trailers are not rocket science. You make a good point though, having it set up at the factory probably
does improve the fit. The trailer on the '94 690 I looked at was rusting in the same types of places I saw on other trailers of similar
vintage.)
Lastly, I still am willing to take issue with the price point. Rangers are not much more expensive than other boats. When you compare apples to apples. A 20 foot boat must be compared to another 20 foot boat. Same options, same electronics, same power plant etc. You will see there are not many top end boat lines to far away from Rangers pricing.
(I've wondered to myself if a 20' walleye boat really needs to cost
$40k plus. I believe it's true that other manufacturers have stepped up their fit and finish to stay competitive with Ranger. Ranger clearly aims at the high end though.)
As I said, I have owned a lot of brands and a lot of boats. Ranger is the only one I have ever owned more than one of. I have never been in a more solid stable boat. Obviously many anglers who are in the market for a big glass boat feel the same way. There were over 80 Rangers in the recent MWC tourney at Spring Valley. There were 210 boats in that one. That is an impressive number to me at least.
(I'm not sure the RCL is such a good thing. I wouldn't want to only be
able to choose from R,C or L. It puts competitive fisherman under a lot of pressure to buy a boat that qualifies. A very smart marketing ploy to be sure. Ranger makes a ton of Pro-staff boats available as evidenced by the amount of turnover of late model boats. Lower tier competitive fisherman buy them up - maybe to appear more credible?
Isn't it true that R, C, or L boats have to be newer than 3 years old to qualify - or something like that? That insures competitors will have to keep trading up and puts a bunch of used stuff out there. Again, a very smart marketing ploy.)
Hey, I have always said, any boat brand is not for everyone, and every boat is as good as the owners perception of it. But these are all reasons (above) why I chose Ranger.
(I agree.... and maybe those same reasons are why I haven't bought a Ranger yet?)
BTW Steve, it is nice to have you back again, it was awful quiet at times without your thought provoking posts. Have a good one!
(Thanks Red. I did enjoy my stint in Wyoming - but it kept me hopping.)
(p.s. Some things you didn't touch on. I've heard people here on the board refer to 620's - maybe Rangers in general - as bow heavy. What do you attribute this to? Also, I've read here that Rangers are slower
with the same engine/propellor than other boats. Is this true?)