Leaving hooks in fish?

[ufda]

I've heard the same thing as everyone else, i.e. a hook left in a fish will deteriorate quickly and not harm the fish. The Lindy rig article on this board brings this subject up again. Are there any biologists on this site or articles by authorities that have done research to confirm or deny this idea. I love to catch and release, but I would hate to have thrown back fish that are just going to die and rot.
What say you?
ufda

[Hans]

I have always had an uneasy feeling that they are "just telling us that" to make us feel good about "CP&R without guilt".

If you or I swallow a fishhook, it likely will kill us unless we get surgery. The gastro-intestinal tract of a fish is a lot smaller and more prone to damage than ours, yet they'll survive? Sure!!!!!!!!

Hans

[wheels]

This is going to be hard to swallow but it's the truth so here I go. While fishing a tournament a couple years ago the fish were hot on a lindy rig bite. Our first three fish were gut hooked, so rather than killing the fish and getting penalized, we just cut the hook off. Standard practice so far I'm sure. Well, over a period of time we caught two more so with our limit filled, we headed for weigh in. After scooping the fish out of the livewell into the basket I noticed that all three hooks were in the bottom of the livewell with the short tag of line still on them. I thought that was simply amazing. Even more amazing, it happened with one more fish the next day.

Is this normal? Has anybody else had this happen?

[EAGLE EYES]

Leaving a hook in the throat of a Saltwater fish is the best bet for survival of that fish. However, freshwater will not corrode a hook as quickly and chances are the fish will die if hooked deep enough. Cutting the line of a gut hooked freshwater fish however, holds better odds of survival than yanking it's inners out along with your hook. Even though chances of a freshwater fish's survival are minimal when the hook is left in it, It is the right thing to do, if the hook cannot be pulled without too much damage. I'm not a fisheries biologist, this is just read knowledge from someone who is. Good luck! and may the fish be with you! EE

[Hans]

If "the odds of survival are minimal", isn't it tantamount to "wanton waste" to return that fish to the water, hoping you might catch a larger one?

Hans

[Eyez]

2 summers ago, I caught a 23 inch walleye on Winnie that had a very heavy duty gold #1 eagle claw (looked like anyway) hook in it's gullet already. The hook was quite obviously starting to rust and deteriorate, but it was hard to tell how long it had been in. It didn't look like it had been in too terribly long and the fish looked healthy enough to release, so I put him back. Incidentally, the fish swallowed my rig too, so I cut it and let him go with 2 hooks in his stomach. After seeing that, I kinda figured that they would eventually rust out, but I'd like to know how long it really does take. I'd hate to think that I put that nice big fish back only to have it die.

[Grey Wolf]

In response to Wheels, I too will cut the line as short as possible, and keep a side cutters in my boat for that purpose. It also doubles as a great cutter of Fireline.

My question for wheels since I too fish tourneys, what do you think if you leave the hook in the fish are you artificially modifying the fishes weight. Granted by a very little amount, but hey think about it. I wonder what the call on that would be.

[EAGLE EYES]

Yes, It is conscientiously "Wanton waste" to throw back a fish that has a hook still attached to it. But, on waters such as Mille lacs that impose slot limits, (like the ridiculous one they are about to address on the the 5th), This is all anglers can do if the fish doesn't measure up. Morally, a fish that is gut hooked and can be kept legally, definately should be kept in MHO. EE

[Moose]

My buddy told me while fishing the merc. nat. in fondy they were jigging had two fish with the jigs down to there guts.same thing happen at the end of the day the jigs were in the livewell.

[WAeyes]

Eagle Eyes, your last sentence sums up this topic as well as it can be. Good post

[Dr fish]

For years, anglers catching gut-hooked fish have cut the line close to the hook, leaving it deeply embedded, as fishing authorites, biologists, and conservation agencies have advised. The message has been that hooks rust and fall out of the fish.

But what is this advise based on? To our knowledge, almost no studies have followed the fate of fish with hooks in their esophagus. Studies of immediate and delayed mortality of hooked fish have invariably found the highest mortality in fish hooked in the gills or esophagus.

John Foster, Recreational Fisheries Coordinator for the Fisheries Division of the Tidewater Administration of the Maryland Department of Natural Resources, studied whether fish shed hooks left in their gullets. The Chesapeake Bay striped bass fishery, which was closd in the mid-1980's due to low population levels, was reopened when fish spawned heavily and stocks rebounded. Atlantic coast states imposed various combinations of size and bag limits to protect the growing striper population. But limits that required release of fish won't work if many released fish die.

Biologists throat-hooked medium (16-to-22 inch) and large (22-to-28 inch) stripers and held them in tanks of half-strength seawater (15 parts per thousand). Stripers in Chesapeake Bay occupy water that ranges from nearly fresh to almost full-strength seawater, so the experimental treatment represented average water conditions. And of course, hooks in saltwater rust much faster than in freshwater.

Foster and his colleagues at the fisheries lab ran two experiments to test long-term hook retention. In the first, they tested hooks of stainless steel, bronzed (steel with a polyurethane coating), nickel, and tin-cadmium. They placed 1/0 or 2/0 hooks in the fish's esophagus, with the point up and left an 18-inch length of line on the hook. Thirty fish were hooked with each type of hook.

After 120 days, 78 percent of the hooks remained in the stripers, including fish that died. 80 percent of the tin-cadmium hooks remained, though mortality was about 20 percent due to cadmium poisoning. Hook companies have since stopped using cadmium in hooks. Bronzed hooks were the likeliest to fall out, though 70 percent remained after four months in brackish water.

In the second test which ran for 60 days, line was clipped at the hook eye. 81 percent of these hooks remained, with retention of hook type ranging from 100 percent for stainless steel to 56 percent for tin. Mortality was higher in the secon test, when all the line was trimmed.

Foster theorizes that the length of line hanging from the fish's mouth kept the shank flat and allowed food to pass below it. Without the line, food tended to force the hook eye and shank down, which blocked the esophagus. With the shank held flat, the hook may move to one side, allowing the fish to feed. Hooks that rusted did so in stages, leaving ever smaller portions of the bend and point in the fish.

Stripers also formed scar tissue around the hook, the body's way of isolating this foreign matter. Once tough fibrous scar tissue forms in the mouth, however, it can't be removed. Months after hooking, fish developed latent infections around hook wounds, which caused mortalities. These infections might have been caused by bacteria that became active as water temperature changed, or they may have been triggered by seasonal stress, such as spawning.

Based on these findings, Foster recommends that anglers carefully remove hooks from deeply hooked fish, using a tool like the Deep Throat DeHooker (DeHooker, Inc., 7 Cherokee Avenue, Rt. 17, Palm Coast, FL 32137, (904)446-1634. Their web site is www.dehooker

[Kevin/CO]

Well here is how Eagle Claw put it to me at the factory here in Denver. Standard Eagle Claw hooks will dissolve in a solution of basic fish intestinal acids and fresh water over a period of 72 hours. Most hooks are normally regected and consequently expelled from the fish's body. The biggest factor that hurts them is the line leads and the pressure from holding the fhish's weight and the stress from the fight. I don't know if I really believe it or not but I have cut hooks off that were deep in tagged fish and have recaught those fish. It may be a bit of a stretch but it is comforting to atleast try and believe it.

[EricCO]

Our local DOW biologist agrees that getting the hook out as best you can gives the fish the best chance for survival.

[Suzuki]

With all the controversy on this subject I think it's time for an up to date experiment. I will now swallow
a #6 octopus hook(red)and continue typing as long as I can.
GULP. The hook is now swallowed and lodged somewhere in my throat. I will continue typing as long as I can before losing
concious]psrpj0iyu50..on\dh43..

[Lund_Dude]

I thought I was the only one who doubted this. Is there any serious fisherman that can claim to have never caught a fish with a jig or other hook still attached. Seems I get one with a jig every spring run on the Wolf. I must say that I don't know how long they were there.

Also, the new Nickle-Teflon coatings and all the new hook technology, does that affect the corrosion?

[little bow mount]

just last weekend i caught a walleye and while cleaning it felt a bump in its stomach. i thought i should explore and to my surprise, i found a 3/8ounce jig in its belly. it was pretty fresh i think by the wear on the chartruese color, but by all means the fish was healthy.
the only problem was: we wondered if we were going to get lead poisoning when we eat it!!!
or
if the fish was going to die trying to poop it out!!

hope this helps

[JCarp]

The striped bass info is very interesting. I'm kinda wondering if maybe I did once see something (Infisherman or WalleyeInsider?) about leaving a tag end. Anyone remember? I didn't fish any lakes w/size limits until a few yrs ago & always kept mishandled/bad hooked fish.

I'd guess there would be a big difference in hook deterioration rates between in the stomach vs in the throat. However, as I indicated in the lindy rig thread, I've seen a fat, healthy smallie with a jighead hanging from it's anus. The jig had obviously passed through it's digestive system and the hook was still intact, though corroded.

Certainly, we should always try to remove the hook when possible, but my opinion is that if you make it bleed there is a good chance it will die. If the hook doesn't block the throat to prevent feeding, I know the fish will likely be around long enough to maybe be caught again, because I have caught fish with hooks in them. We also use single hook harnesses over double hook rigs if we are funfishing and not prepared to keep a few or catching a lot of small fish.

I had always cut the line short, but the Striper Study appears to have merit.

[FireTiger]

Interesting finding's in the brackish water study,I would venture a guess and say that Micro-organisms and bacteria found in fresh and warm water would increase the mortality rate,I go by the old standby, if its big enough to swallow my lure and is wounded i.e bleeding gills and the like earns him a date with my B.Q, naturally,out of season species go back,

[Jack G]

A couple years ago while fishing for Florida bass, using live nine inch shiners for bait, I gut hooked a 3.5 pound bass.

While cutting the line and preparing to release the fish I noticed that he had been previously gut hooked and that hook was still in his throat. This fish was gut hooked with about a #4 or #5 kahle hook and was still feeding as he took my live bait offering.

I do not like having to release gut hooked fish but if they are not torn up badly I suspect they survive better than I suspected.

Jack

[Tough Guy]

Tough Guy say live bait for meat hunters. Use artificials for C&R, no gut hooks. Maybe not catch as many but much more honorable. Be one with mighty walleye, no send back in water with hook and line in mouth.

[bassinmeyer]

has any one thought about carrying side cutters to cut the hook in order to make it more easily removed with no barb or eye to hang it up. I have heard of muskie fishermen cutting hooks on baits and it just got me thinking. Also a friend caught a largemouth with a jig coming out of its posterior. I also agree the new mille lacs slot is rediculous.
good luck

[Ernie Hamby]

It has been proven that leaving hooks in the throat or stomach will have a very high mortality rate. With live or sented baits it is virtually impossible to avoid totally a swallowed hook.
After an experance on Fork 3 years ago I made a hook disgorger that has been proven to work more effective than any disgorger ever used. It is even recommended by the Okla Wild Life Dept.
For a do it yourself instruction on making one go to www.hambys.com & click on hookout.

[Joel B.]

I don't know the final answer but I do know that if I release a fish with a hook still in it and the fish swims away under its own power, it has a 100% better chance at living than if I take it home.

Joel B.

[WRONG!!!]

It does not have a 100% chance of living just because it swims away under its own power. You have no idea what its chances are, neither do I. It has somewhere between 0% and 100%. To think that anyone has this figured out for sure is very naive thinking. It is just as questionable as fizzing if not more so. When in doubt, keep the fish.

[Joel B.]

I know that if I keep the fish, it has a 100% chance of dying!! You are correct though that the fish probably doesn't have a 100% chance of living if released, but it sure has a lot better chance if it swims away than if I keep it. I never claimed to have this figured out for sure.

Joel B.

[JasonMN]

This sounds like a PETA study.

[Chad]

Sounds like a good cause for barbless hooks. With barbless you could remove the hook without doing any damage. You would still want to leave it in if it was way down in the gullet but it may have a better chance of working loose.

[M.R.Fish]

I studied the problem for years and hook mortality is most often associated with perferation of the throat or gill tissues. Mono or line will pass thru although the knot will not. This can also cause mortality. Fish will dissolve the hook depending on type in about 72 hours in the warmer months of spring or summer, in cold waters this may require several months. The rate at which the hook corrodes or disolve is dependent upon the digestive acids, these acids vary upon metobolic rate and species of fish. Warm water tends to increase the digestive acids along with the activity of all fish, this is the inverse with cold water. Mortality is relative for life span of the walleye whether natural or induced by harvest. Releasing the 'eye is a judgement call, he is for sure dead in the skillet, thus the problem with every walleye fishery that ever was OVER HARVEST.

the're always bitin' ;-)

[CADmaster]

Call me a old softy but I feel really really bad when I leave a hook in a fish. Maybe I'm not very good at fishing but I do gut hook some fish. The worst was leaving a Mepps spinner deep in a nice walleye. So I've filed down or crimped down the barbs on all my lures and jigs. Sure I've lost some fish by not keeping a tight line, but I haven't left a hook, jig, or lure in a fish in a long time. It makes me feel like I'm doing the right thing.