Towing vehicle

[Steve CO]

I am considering a new vehicle that will be for primary commuting and for towing my boat in the local area. I have a basic engine question. First, the boat is a Lund 1700 Fisherman with a 135 Opti and a 9.9 Merc kicker to give you some idea. I want a vehicle that will be more economical than my truck since I will drive it most of the time (the Chevy is 4WD, heavy duty K2500 with 4.10 axle and camper which gets 10-11 MPG at best and is a pain for launching). I have looked at the specs for the Ford Explorer, Chevy Blazer, Toyota 4runner and Nissan Pathfinder. Here's the question. All are V6 engines with these specs:
Ford 4.0L, 203HP@5000RPM, Torque 237@3000RPM
Chevy 4.3L, 190HP@4400RPM, Torque 250@2800RPM
Toyota 3.4L, 183HP@4800RPM, torque 217@3600RPM
Nissan 3.5L, 240HP@6000RPM, Torque 265@3200RPM

There seems to be no relationship between the displacement and the HP and torque. For example, the Nissan engine has the highest HP but it is rated at a higher RPM. The Chevy has the highest displacement but one of the lowest HP but highest torques. How do you figure out what the real equivalents are from a practical standpoint? I am confused.

[muley hunter]

Here is what you need to consider. The weight of the boat compared to the weight of the vehicle you are towing it with. Also if you plan on taking any long trips fishing those vehicles could be inadequate for pulling the boat along ways. Insurance is a big ??? Chevy Blazers and such have high rates because of roll over tests. Driving around cities with any of these will not get you much over 14 mpg but it will improve to 17 or 18 on the highway. Don't let the dealer talk you into the 5.0 V8 in the Explorer either, my uncle had one and liked the quietness but mileage was bad. He went to a full size truck with the 5.4. Just a thought or two. I use my Ford Expedition to pull my 18 ft Alumacraft. It gets about 13 to 14 when my wife drives it around town and back and forth to work. It handles the boat very nicely!!!
Good Luck!

[Nightshift]

I have the same lund rig as you except I put a 115 four stroke on it instead of the 135. I am pulling mine with a quad cab dodge ram with a 4.7 V8. The quad cab works for hauling the family around as this is our second family car.. When taking the boat and family, the quad cab seems to have more than enough power to haul the boat, kids and wife, a whole lot of luggage ( three girls ). The gas milage hasn't been figured out yet because the truck is still new and I hope the milage goes up a little. Right now it gets about 13-15 miles to the gallon pulling the boat.

[Dodge1]

None of these vehicles are designed to tow heavy loads but they will all suffice for the usage you indicated.

Just looking at the maximum HP and Torque will most probably lead you down the wrong path. Ask the dealers for a graph of HP/Torque, in relation to RPM. Then take the vehicles out for a test drive, to see what the HP/Torque figures are, at the speed you’ll mostly be using while towing the boat. Remember that you’ll be using 3rd gear when you’re towing, so do you’re testing in that gear.

http://www.edmunds.com/new/type/suv/midsize/index.html is a farily helpful site for evaluating the cost of ownership/rebates/options etc.

[DennisS]

I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I tow a 16 foot Alumacraft Yukon with a Merc 9.9 4 stroke, two trolling motors/batteries, etc. (all up weight about 1600 lbs.) with a Subaru Forester. The Forester has a 2.5 liter 4 cylinder with 165 hp. Does fine for the 1 hour local trips. I am intending to pull it to Maine (from NJ) this summer. The only concern I have is the relatively short wheelbase of the Forester. Mileage is, understandably, very good.

By the way, spent the day on Raritan Bay on Memorial Day, trolling and chunking. With my grown son and gear, we "plane" at 8 to 9 mph (WOT). Used less than 3 gallons of gas for the whole day. The car and the boat are very efficient rigs.


DennisS
Long Valley

[BlackSilver]

If you're talking "new new", the Chev Trail Blazer has an awesome new six which just blows away the venerable old 4.3L (which is history).

Walk softly and carry a big fish.

Hans/MN

[miksup]

I have a 2002 Dodge Dakota Quad Cab with the 235 HP 4.7 V8. It is just now nicely broken in. All the room in the world, 20 MPG at 65-70 MPH, 16-17 around town and 11 when pulling my Crestliner 1750 Sportfish/Optimax 150 without the slightest bit of effort. It's rated to tow 6000 pounds. The trucks you mentioned are all fine vehiclles, but as the old saying goes, there is absolutely "No replacement for displacement". When pulling a rig, V8's are the only way to go.

[Tom B]

I had been using a conversion van for towing. Loved the room, hated the mileage. Bought a Jeep Cherokee, 4.0 liter 6. Hate it. Crappy mileage, little interior room.

Yesterday, I test drove a Freightliner Sprinter (http://www.daimlerchrysler-vans.com/ns/home/index.html ), I really think that this will be my next tow vehicle. It is rated to pull 5,000 lbs and they get 20-22 mpg (according to a local Fed Ex mechanic and they run 4 of them). I am thinking about the short wheelbase, passenger version, with one back bench, then 2 captains chairs in the middle. The high roof version provides a ton of room for rod storage on the ceiling and still have plenty of head room. Should spec out in the $30,000+ range (more depending on how fancy the interior gets.)

The local dealer is going to put a hitch on one so that I can test it out towing the boat. Assuming everything goes well, I suspect that I will be driving one of these next year!!

Tom B

[Trailerguy]

What transmsion and rear end do you have? The wife's Quad is bearly broke in, but we got 14 mpg at 70 mph last week on I35 empty.

[Steve CO]

You've hit the nail on the head. I have an 350 with automatic trans with heavy duty everything and a 4.10 rear end. It makes for great hauling up the grades through the Rocky Mountains with camper on the rear and boat, but for lousy gas mileage.

[miksup]

Trailerguy: All I can say is that I switched over to Amsoil in the crankcase and differential at about 4000 miles. I just drove it from St. George, Utah to Colorado Springs and back over a 5 day period. I now have 10000 miles on it. Took I-15 to I-70 thru Denver going. Averaged 19 MPG going mostly 75 MPH. Coming back came over the mountains on US 50 to Grand Junction and averaged 20. Considering it was all up and down the mountains I think it was pretty good. I have the 4.7 liter V8, 3.55 rear end and automatic. I also make sure I keep those big 255/65R16 Goodyears near the max inflation.

[Trailerguy]

The wife's Dakota is equiped the same as yours, only 6000 miles and using Mobile 1, we're running the tires around 35psi for the ride, maybe that has a larger affect than I thought, next chance we get I'll
bump it up. I like the 4.7's performance better than the 5.9 in my Ram 1500.

[MK]

The engine designs and the rpm vs. torque curves all vary and some are better for towing than others. I don't know of any one-to-one comparison for these engines. Your trying to compare apples to oranges in some cases.

Check out the Chev Trailblazer. I pull a Lund Tyee, 1950, dual-axle trailer that weighs about 4,000 to 4,500 lbs. and it will run as fast as you want to drive and get 13-14 mpg pulling the boat and about 19-20 without. 4.2 liter, inline 6 with 270 hp. I had a Blazer, Jeep Cherokee and full size Chev. PU with 350. For all around driving and pulling, the Trailblazer is great. Mine has 18,000 miles and no problems at all.

[IA Fisherman]

I pull my Lund Fisherman 1800 with a 2001 F150 Supercrew. Without pulling the boat, I am getting 17 - 19 mpg and when pulling the boat, it looks like 15 to about 15.5 mpg. It has plenty of room for passengers, the ability to haul extras in the back and great comfort. I had the Dodge Dakota Quad Cab, but did not feel I had the room I needed. It had the 4.7 and I pulled some loads that were equivalent to my boat. It got 17 - 19 on the highway with a best of 21 mpg on a trip. When towing, it droped to 14 - 16 mpg. It was automatic overdrive with a 3.55 rearend. I gave up 4x4 when I went to the Ford, but don't miss it a bit. I am running the 351 with auto and can pull the boat in overdrive. My dealer said no problem as long as it is not shifting up and down. When it starts that, pop it out of overdrive until you get to an area that is not so populated with hills. When pulling the boat, it is almost like it is not back there. My RPM's only went up about 100 - 200 to maintain the 65 - 70 mph I run.

Hope this helps.

[Rat]

I have a Toyota Tundra (8cyl) and usually get about 15 and 19 towing my 17.6 237 Ranger. Try this one out before you buy its got lots of guts and very comforable ride. Zero problems.

[Steve CO]

Sorry guys
I just got back to town and realized that I mislead many of you. I get 15+ mpg on my chevy truck alone but 10-11 when I've got my camper loaded on which is most of the time during boating season. That's why I want a second vehicle for normal commuting and pulling the boat locally plus as a main car for travelling with my wife, going skiing, etc. I still use the truck/camper/boat rig when I'm travelling any distance to fish. Sorry for the confusion.
Steve

[Jeff S]

Did not get much of an answer on you v-6 choices did you?

I owned a 4.0l V-6 AWD Extended Aerostar van.
I have a 1750 Crestliner Fishhawk with a 90 hp Honda.

Normal hwy milage for the aerostar is 19-20 mpg.
I got 13-14 towing in OD. Flat, no hills
I normally pulled without OD in hilly areas & got about 13.

Pulled good, no issues, but had a trailer towing package with transmission cooler.......a must with smaller motors.....

I have a 4.7L v-8 Tundra now, get 13-14 towing....Much more hp to pull with....,but, the 4.0 L pulled fine,

[Jigging 5]

Hello,
I will add this I am a fleet tech for a large corperation. All the engines you mentioned are capable of handling the load I will say this from experience ford drivetrains hold up better than the others.
ie the transmission, rearend, differential. Just my opinion with 15 years as fleet mech.

[Capable Partner]

Trailer Boat mgazine does all sorts of testing on tow vehicles. Perhaps a look in their pages will help you. I've got the Dakota 4-door Quad cab with the 5.9 liter v-8. Truly, there is "NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT". Whatever you choose, get the proper trailering package for your needs. Oil cooler, Transmission etc... Good luck!

[LC]

What is the difference between drive and overdrive on any vehicle
In overdrive my RPM's go up but I don't know if this is good or bad
Any help to explain the diff between the two would be great
thanks
LC

[Cougar Guy]

Check out this thread . . .

http://www.walleyecentral.com/cgi-bin/dcf/dcboard.cgi?az=read_count&om=11304&forum=boatsandmotors

From what I've been told, in general do not tow in Overdrive unless the tranny is not shifting in and out or gear "hunting". Leaving overdrive off will raise the RPM's a bit and sacrifice fuel economy but will not damage your vehicle . . . it will likely put the engine more in the "powerband". A transmission can get cooked pretty easy if you tow in OD and it's always shifting in and out . . . too much heat :(

[SLim]

I have a GMC 1500HD Crew Cab with the 6.0L. I love the truck and the motor has plenty of power. I consistently get 11-12 MPG with or without the boat(1850 Sportfish 115 Yam). I am going to STRONGLY consider the dieslel next time. For more power, which can never hurt, but more importantly better MPG about 17-19. I know I didn't address you specified engines but thats my 2c worth.

Slim

[JJ]

Cougar Guy is right on the money.
When a load is behind OD is not the place to be. Granted some of the new GM trucks have a tow\haul button on the end of the shift lever. The thought is that when the tow\haul is engaged it changes the shifting characteristics and could allow use of OD for increased mpg. But the truth of the matter is that only works when the load is light and the grade is slight.

The death of an automatic transmission is heat.

If you want to scare yourself install a transmission temp gauge. Then watch your temps both empty and towing. You will quickly understand why all of that OD to drive shifting is bad :)

Gas is cheap tranys are not, put it in drive.

[NC]

JJ,
I thought engaging the tow/haul button was the same as taking it out of OD? I guess I was wrong. Anyhow, I always tow with my 2001 Sierra with the tow/haul button on and haven't experienced any problems, but I guess I never knew differently. I tow a 1650 Rebel which is very light.
Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Certainly don't want to do any damage. By the way, to get out of OD do I go to 3rd?
Thanks,

[MN Bassfisher]

I have a Tahoe and hear is what I was told about the Tow/Haul button.
No reason to use it. Leaving the car in drive will do just fine. If you however, feel your vehicle is not shifting properly, go ahead and use tow/haul. It will not damage the vehicle.

From what I understand, many folks use tow/haul when it is windy outside or going up and dwon steep inclines.

Yes - Do not use Overdrive...

[Total Guy]

I've had the Duramax diesel in my 2500 HD for about two months now and will be hard pressed to go back to gas. Alot more power and got 15mpg towing 6500 pound deck boat. I've got up to 18mpg empty!

[Husky]

Steve,

As a Toyota owner, I can speak with some authority about the 3.4V6.

The 3.4 is a DOHC engine and therefore produces its HP and Torque above 3400 rpm. The engine will be somewhat sluggish accelerating with a tow load, and you must exercise patience in entering freeway situations , allowing plenty of room to accelerate. Also when towing, the small v6 will give around 14-15 miles per gallon on the freeway.
I have that engine in a T100, and although I like the truck a lot and don't tow particularly long distances, I would not recommend the 3.4 for anyone who tows long distances or doesn't have a lot of patience with slow acceleration.

[Husky]

.
The death of an automatic transmission is heat.

If you want to scare yourself install a transmission temp gauge. Then watch your temps both empty and towing. You will quickly understand why all of that OD to drive shifting is bad

Well said! Some guys forget that when you haul a lot in the bed of your truck, the use of "D" is best for the life of the truck too.