GORE PROPOSES ELIMINATION OF PISTON ENGINES

[jeff Reed]

Hey all you walleye guys and 4 stroke motor fans, on 4-21-00 in Romulus, Michigan in a speech to executives of truck manufacturers and labor leaders. the Washington Post reported that presidental candidate AL Gore proposed the elimnation of all internal combustion engines by the year 2017. Al Gore said, "this decision I wear as a badge of courage to help the environment". He also stated that piston engines pose a "motal threat " to mankind. Go ahead and vote for this guy while you ride your Lund bicycle to work and fish in a Ranger paddleboat. All these walleye pros are going to look real good busting those 4 foot waves on electric trolling motors. Does anybody know how fast i have to paddle and what pitch I have to use on the paddles to maintain 1.5 mph??

[Thanks]

Hey Jeff,

Yhanks for the heads up. But what do you expect from a lying Di***ead like Gore. What a moron. Is he trying to loose on purpose?
First, dung for brains says he invented the internet, then he says his Dad was a pioneer in the civil rights movement. Ya, for the Klan maybe! His Daddy voted against the civil rights amendment! What a pioneer.
Now the jerk proposes a ban on internal combustion engines, to a group of auto execs, no less. Stupid A** is the phrase that comes to mind.
And for you union auto workers, go ahead and vote Democrat this next election, and I'll see you on the U/C line.

[anonomous]

jeff, 2017? if he is elected, he won't have any power then. don't sweat the small stuff! enjoy the fishing TODAY. happy holiday...

[Aldo]

Or you can vote for that other big idiot, GW. He'll make sure all our lakes are toxic waste dumps. You won't have to worry about what kind of motor to use because you won't be fishing anyway. They'll all be dead. Be real. GW is probably the biggest moron to ever run for office. Less than the average mans IQ. For REAL. This is who you want running the county???

[Hmm,]

Let's see, while I think GW may not be the best choice, Gore is even farther from it. He's a liar, and a bad one at that, and the tree huggers best friend. I also believe that you are far from the truth about GW's environmental policies. He comes from a long line of hunters and fishermen. I highly doubt that the idiot talking heads(D Rather, T Brokaw, and the liberal, not even an american, king moron, Peter Jennings) will ever have footage of Bush running aroung the country dumping chemicals and sewage into our waters. Wake up and smell the damage the current administration has done to our country, and get wise my friend, or we'll all be saying Da, and Nyet, from the unemployment line, real soon. You also failed to rebut even one of my points in the prior post. Could it be Gores big mouthed Lies are indefensable? Did I also fail to mention your hero once ran his campaign in the southern states saying he came from a tobbaco growers family and he too worked the fields and could sympathise with their plight, then turns around and spearheads the lawyers pocket lining campaign to derail big tobbaco? Which by the way is a red herring! The govt. doesnt want to eliminate tobbaco, there are far too many Govt. programs dependant on the exorbitant taxes charged on each pack of smokes. Gore and his ilk are anti business, period. Does Microsoft or Smith and Wesson mean anything to you? By the way, who was behind the invading of the house in Miami Sat morning? Hmm, not GW. But maybe the current administration, of which that Mannequin Gore is still part of. Regardless, Gore is still a boob.

[Mrrugs]

This is really not a new Gore policy. In his manifesto: "Earth In the Balance" (which, by the way has recently been re-issued) Comrade Gore is proud to go on record stating that the gas combustion engine is one of civilization's greatest threats. He's on record many times vowing to work toward it's eventual elimination. This all seems to get glossed over when Vice President Bore is courting campaign funding from the UAW. And if you think this change will all come at once, think back at how gun control or tobacco control started and witness where we are today...on the verge of outlawing both. This, in what was born as a free society. Here in New York a lounge full of slimy politicians tossed around the idea of banning two-stroke engines on Canandaigua Lake. "Pollution threat..." The impetus was that they were looking for some excuse for controlling those jet-skis. In case you haven't noticed, there's a lot of us who fish off smaller boats using two-strokes. And as much as I find jet-skis a nuisance on the water, I'd be very careful about supporting such a measure because, as history keeps teaching us, once the controls begin, they won't end until "the threat" is eliminated and every politician has a handy sound bite at the ready to sell to an unenlightened public for his/her next campaign. "G. Dubyah" may not be everyones's cup of tea, but if you fish or own a boat (or shoot or smoke or ?....) you had better think long and hard about prolonging the Clinton era via Al Gore. Meanwhile, here in New York we've got that carpetbagging Hillary to deal with!!!! God, help us all.

[I think it is funny]

I think it is funny, speaking of Hillary, that most of her campaign donationa are comming from her Comrades outside New York. There was even one from a convicted drug dealer who is currently serving time. He was also a Major Clinton/Gore contributor in the last election and he spent the night in the Lincoln bedroom after a substantial contribution. You in New York have all our sympathies, but maybe after she looses, and slick willie is in Jail, and Gore is wiping off windshields on freeway off ramps, we can get back to the business of repairing all the damage these 3 idiots have done to our country. P.S., Janet Reno is a man

[LUNDY]

I thought this was a general discussion fishing format???

[It is]

It is, but, if Gore gets his way, we will be outlaws cause the tree huggers will rule our land, and I am not so narrow minded that i will only talk fishing with my fishin buddies and my cyber fishin buddies. Conversing with like minded individuals about all sorts of topics can be quite stimulating and is never boring. My advise would be, dont read these types of posts if you do not wish to partake in them. Now, where are the fish biting. And , Gore is still a boob.

[Here goes...]

Just to throw one into the mix here, I propose that Gov. Jesse Ventura throw his hat into the ring. Then everybody will be happy, RIGHT??

[Mrrugs]

I almost forgot...did anyone get to watch that "Earth Day Celebration" on C-Span, Saturday, April 22? It looked like a "pencil neck geek" convention. Anyone who doesn't believe that Environmental Activists, the PETA nuts, etc. are all the same, misguided folks must be blind and deaf. Has it ocurred to any of these (so called) "caring" people that among those whose best interests would be served by a sound environmental policy are those of us who actually spend some time outdoors? Their solution seems to be to ban everything they can, except, of course, for those tin-eared folk singers that seem to infest these events. Let's have a demonstration of our own...LET'S FISH!!!!

[jeff reed]

Did anybody ever hear of a branch of goverment called the "judicial branch". This branch is commomly called the Supreme Court. Currently, there are no less than 5 or 6 members that are quitting or dying. The next president will get to appoint judges with the that president's "type" of environmental ideology". IF GORE IS ELECTED, we will be living well into the next century with evironmental judicial morons well after GORE is out of office. I'm real concerned about who gets to be the next president based the make-up of the Supreme Court and how laws affecting fishermen will be applied. When it comes to the year 2017 and the fact justices serve for life, 2017 is just around corner judicially speaking.

[As I Suspected]

I'm not a fan of any of the above mentioned but I have suspected for years Janet has a pointer and not a reciever! Now if we can get rid of her and her bosses it will be a good Easter.

[jeff reed]

Realistically that won't happen, retrogressing to that type of environmental scenario is not in the best interests of either GORE or Bush. Lakes and rivers are the cleanest we have seen them in years. Most water pollution problems today evolve from sediment contamination caused by industrial pollution from the WWII munitions and supply manufacturing. The introduction of non-native species to the US ecosystem (i.e. zebra mussels, gobie, etc,) have had more major impact than any chemical water discharge. In Michigan, a goverment sewage discharge is a much more of common occurance problem than "bad chemicals".

[jeff reed]

Be a man of courage and dont hide under "Anonomous". People will respect you more.

[wallywacker]

Two things that usually determine controvirsial enviromental issues, money and emotion. I think there is more than enough money (oil companies,and other big industries) and not enough emotion to keep internal combustion engines around for along time

[Jeff Reed]

How did Bill and Hillary buy a house that costs 1.7 million dollars when they are technically bankrupt and so far in debt????????????

[Jeff Reed]

The election of Jesse Ventura as Governor of Minnesota represents the frustration level of the Minnesota voters with candidates selected by our 2 party system. While not being a very "qualified" as far as knowledge of the issues, party officials of both Demacrat and Republican parties have received a wake-up call from voters who's attittude seem to reek of, "We are tired of of special interest candidates and smiling LIARS supplied by the Demacratic and Republican parties". The 2 party system has got to do a better job of selecting political candidates or we will continue to get guys like Jesse being elected out of frustration.

[Jeff Reed]

Well said walleyewacker. Congrats. OUR way of life as we know it in the USA depends entirely on a piston going up and down in a cylinder.Contrary to popular belief, there is no known technology that can move 40 tons of truck and trailer down the highway other than a piston engine. Only thing that scares me is EMOTION has toppled goverments. One of Hitlers greatest strengths that catapulted his rise to power was emotional speaking style and his ability to convince smart people emotionally.

[Jeff Reed]

You're my hero and I love your thought process. You are wise beyond your years. Keep talking I'll support you ALL DAY LONG.

[jeff Reed]

Lets wait and see if the UAW and the Teamsters endorse this Tennessee Go-Faster. Organized labor has nothing to gain in the Gore "scheme of thinking". It will be interesting because Gore doesnt fall in the "typical" democrat that BIG Labor has typically rubber stamped in past elections, they have much to lose.

[jeff reed]

Well said. Janet Reno, Madelaine Albright, and Donna Shalala are not good representatives of the human female species.

[Aldo]

I really get a kick out of you so called "sportsman". You're always there for the take. But when it comes to giving back you'll fight it with all your greed. If you are a sportsman who cares about fishing and hunting then you should be supporting someone who will preserve the water and land. But no, you just want to put fish in the cooler and who cares about tomorrow. Every year we loose 3 million acres to development. Where are you going to hunt when its all gone or so fragmented it wont pay to hunt because there wont be a one single wooded area large enough to sustain game. Oh but you'll have your gun. Won't have any use for it but you'll have it.

Don't look to big business to do their part to protect our environment. People like you that dont have enough sense to realize the our fishing and hunting depends on the environment. Fish and game cant live in skyscrapers or sub-divisions. Oh and by the way your buddy GW. His state ranks 49th in the nation in pollution controls. He gave business the ability to regulate themselves. And do you think they will?? Another example, our big rebublican governor Tommy Thompson wants to turn our beautiful state into a toxic waste dump. He's favored a mine that would could pollute the Wolf River. One of the top ten most pristine rivers in the nation. He also wants a power line to gut thousands of acres of untouched north woods, so Chicago and St. Louis can have more reliable power. He's a stock holder so thats all that matters. Dont hide behind calling yourself a "sportsmen" when you will do nothing to ensure future generations can enjoy what we do. You mentality is "I have it today, who cares about tomorrow." Don't come crying when its all gone. Don't complain when your home is destroyed by a 100 year flood that comes every 10 years now because the atmosphere is warmer than its ever been causing abnormal weather patterns.

One of the posts here was so bold to claim our water is cleaner now than it was 30 years ago. And how do you suppose that happen?? Because of people like me that gave a **** and faught for it. Not people like you who opposed it claiming it'll take away precious jobs. I'd trade my job in a second to fish and hunt the rest my life and my kids life. If you cant say that you are not a sportsman. Do us all a favor and don't vote.

[Stinger]

Another hot potato from Jeff.Lets go back to fishing and we can talk politics in the boat where we will only get the fish mad. Speaking of fish it reminds me of the two red herrings our system has got for canidates.Foster

[Jeff Reed]

I'll do that on a different post, I stirred the pot pretty good on this topic didn't I?

[Jeff Reed]

Certainly not another Lying ATTORNEY named Al Gore with a wife named Tipper. What kind of a name is "Tipper" anyway and what kind of a parent would name their daughter "Tipper"........southern hillbilly parents???

[jeff reed]

You live in a dream world, trying to stop economic developement is chasing your tail. So what would you do? How could you stop all economic expansion? Revert to to a Communist goverment that regulates everything including those land gobbling capitalist pigs.The biggest environmental traitor today is the farmer. He cant make any money in farming so he sells off his farm to real estate developers for condo projects and laughs all the way to the bank. Stop and view what you said. You would give up your job for hunting and fishing rights? Nobody in there right mind would voluntarily make himself unemployed. Maybe you dont understand what unemployed means. Simply stated, it means you have no money coming in to pay for food, heat, health care, or shelter. Maybe you're one those that has made millions off of land developement. Your rationale makes no sense and lacks a realistic thought process. I case you havent heard, good hunting land is plentiful. That land is called "private" land where you can't hunt without the owners permission. Sorry you cant find a good place to hunt.

[Thunderstick]

Thanks, Aldo. Thanks for looking out for my best interest because, obviously, I'm incapable of doing so. And thanks for cleaning up my water so I can muck it up again, as I most likely will, because I'm not as environmentally conscious as you and people like you. You elitists kill me. Who else on earth would come out with an arrogant remark such as (the water is cleaner now because of)..."people like me who gave a ****." That's as if to say no one else did or does. Since when do you or those like you have a monopoly on correct thinking? You are always talking down to the rest of the world because you are snobs. And when an opposing viewpoint confronts you with solid evidence you coil up and start flinging accusations of insensitivity, greed and ignorance. You speak of three million acres lost to development, annually. Let's assume those are the numbers. What are the numbers of acres reclaimed by nature in an average year? You begin your statement by addressing us as "so-called" sportsmen. Here's my definition: A sportsman is a person who appreciates and loves the natural gifts that God has graced upon us. We accept these gifts knowing we are mere tenders of these resources. We pass the appreciation of these gifts on to our children and we instill in them the respect and thanks that nature deserves. What's your definition, Aldo? Hey, I don't need you telling me that things are better because of people like you. In my mind things are better in spite of you. You brag that if a cleaner environment costs you your job then, so be it. How foolish. What we're saying is, we can have clean air and water and still keep our jobs!!!

[Aldo]

So your telling me its ok we have fish consumption warnings, and its ok people get sick and die because our ground water gets contaminated?? You get the point. Keeping a clean environment provides its own oppurtunities for jobs. Just as we move away from an manufacturing to service, so do the jobs. There is a need for more service jobs than manufacturing now. Are you fighting that?? Your attitude is actually anti-capitalistic. Times change and you must too. At one time coal mining was a large employeer in this country. Its not anymore, but yet there is still jobs. So if the internal combustion engine goes away, something will replace its that will be faster and cheaper and provide jobs. That is capitalism my friend, you speak of preservitism. New oppurtunities is what its about. You are trying to stop the natural evolution of things fighting for what you know.

[Nick_Ia]

...bigger than...Ronnie Rayguns???:-)

[middleground]

What kind of a name is Reed? Who would name their child after something spineless, with no substance, just a hollow shell? You get the point? Very junior high to attack on that level. As for no technology can move 40 tons, probably the same wisdom was spouted about horses and oxen. How many piston powered Boeings are up there? As for Aldo, "give up your job"? Both you guys need a reality check.

[bob oh]

Could you point us to the article where you supposedly read this statement??????
Bob

[Middleground, I have a question]

Are you aspousing the use of commercial jet engines on the back of our eye boats? I'm game. Let's bolt em all on! LOL

[middleground]

The point was, technology doesn't stand still. Would you have LOL 10 years ago if someone told you to strap a 150horse 4 stroke on your boat? Things change.

[Jeez]

Middleground,

I was only cracking a joke. And yes, 10 years ago, plenty of people were laughing about the 150 on the back of them bass rockets. I even thought those "Big Motors" were never gonna be practical for walleye fishing and that those basseres were gonna kill some one. Pretty funny as I look out my window and see the 225 on the back of my current rig. I got your point and I will be the first in line for a better mousetrap. I like the idea of a 225 4 stroke or an electric, or who knows what, type of engine thart has enough power to pull my trailer or propel my boat with no fear of running down. So far, the technology is not there, too dangerous or beyond affordable for Trump. The ol' piston engine is the stuff, and will be for some time. But then, there are improvements on them every day.

[jeff reed]

Turbo fans and turbo props are not practical in vehicular applications, they banned them from running at the Indy 500 because of jet wash coming fron the rear of the vehicle. Good try but not ready for prime time.

[Jeff Reed]

It appeared in The Flint Journal on April 22 2000 2nd page under Nation/State News. Al Gore spoke in Romulus Michigan on April 21, 2000 to automotive and labor leaders. I know that to be a fact because I was the one of many tied up in traffic waiting on his sorry ATTORNEY'S ***. The Washington Post reported in on Friday April 21, 2000.

[Tomr]

He, let's get back to fishing.

[Tomr]

yes, let's get back to fishing.

[jeff reed]

Excuse Aldo fellow walleye guys, his mouth is engaged but his brain aint in gear. 1. Coal miner employment has gone down primarily because of the automation of the mining process. That means less miners using picks and shovels and more machines doing the back breaking work faster. High sulphur coal isnt in demand because it costs so much to "scrub" in coal fired power plants. 2. Ground water contamination is just starting to show up because of what we didnt know 30 and 40 years ago. This contamination didnt happen yesterday so don't infer that it did. You better hope the piston engine doesnt go away PAL, because evething in your "LIMITED VIEW" world would change to complete poverty. Fish consumption warnings are based on chemicals such as DDT, PBB ,PCB's, heavy metals, that were stopped being used or stopped being dumped into waterways years ago. The Problem is they remain in sediments and dont break down for a long time. This countries pollution probems were created 30 to 60 years ago but today we are still living with the affects.

[bob oh]

Actually Jeff, I'm no Al Gore fan, but Gore talked about the phase out of the internal combustion engine with a "better propulsion system" in a book he wrote in 1992. What he proposed is not new and he did not just propose getting rid of engines, he propsoed developing a btter "engine".
Here is what AP reported about that in a story on April 21: In a 1992 book, "Earth in the Balance," Gore wrote that it ought to be possible to phase out the internal combustion engine over 25 years and replace it with a propulsion system that does not spew out millions of tons of carbon dioxide and other pollution.
Gore's critics have latched on to the proposed demise of the revered engine, in use since before the days of Henry Ford's Model T, as proof of extreme environmental thinking.
"I expected that criticism then and I wear it as a badge of honor today," he declared at a motor freight yard in Romulus,Mich., outside Detroit, where he announced a new government-industry research effort aimed at tripling the fuel economy of trucks. He now sees the development of cleaner, more efficient engines "in less than 25 years," he said, contending he had been too conservative when he penned his book eight years ago.
Fair is fair.
Bob


Few issues distinguish Gore and Bush as clearly as the
environment, according to activists and business executives
alike.

[cmb]

aldo, I agree & support your opinion
I love my truck & my 65 mustang, but believe we all need to do our part to help the environment. I am not a "tree hugger", although I do find it disturbing to drive down the road & watch acre after acre fall to urban sprawl. the clean water act and clean air act have done wonders to help improve our environment. but we need to do more and keep on the upward path.I find it disapointing that my ranger can run on 85% ethanol and I can not buy it anywhere!! todays vehicles are less poluting and more eficient than ever but they are still a huge source of polution. siltation and loss of habitat and riparian coridors are the largest threat to our streams. direct results of new development. we all need to do our part!! point source polution is nolonger the number one threat to many of our waterways but still needs to be kept in check. as somone posted farmers are the worst offenders but not becuase some sell their land for development, but becuase of soil, nutrient & fertilizer run off, leading to siltation and chemical contamination of surface & ground water. Gore may not be perfect, but, at least he seems to care about the environment!, not just $$

[River_eye]

Listen! Do you realize that fossil fuels are non-renewable? Do you realize that they pollute the environment? I'm sure you do, but you have got it stuck in your thick head that "outboards are so much cleaner than they were" and "it's not our fault, it's the people who were running the planet 40 years ago". The planet cannot go on like this, period.

If internal combustion engines can be replaced with somthing cleaner, what's so wrong about that? You're worried that you won't be able to fly across that lake at 75 mph anymore? Seriously, you obviously don't give a sh** about what happens after you die, you just care about enjoying yourself while you're here.

River eye

[Aldo]

You should listen before you speak. So your saying the reason coalminers lost their jobs was because of automation. Correct you are. I'll bet they faught it all the way, just like you are fighting combustion engines. Times change, and so must. Sure they lost their jobs, but new ones were created building the machinery for the automation. Just like new jobs will be created for new technologies around the corner. Also the demand for coal dropped due in part to nuclear power.

Time for you to leave the 19th century.

[Aldo]

Thank you, I'm not trying to be some "tree hugging" facist. But we can't ignore these issues. Especially for our children. We should leave the earth cleaner than it was while we're here. Nobody will loose their job. It just makes sense. Just as we all pick up all our garbage after we leave our favorite lake or stream(we all do that, right??-except jeff you're excused). And who we all vote for will determine how easy it is for us to get it done.

[jumbojim]

Wow i laughed reading half of this. Do you think when clinton got in the fish population went up because of all the clean water produced. Seems to me it had been getting better for years (hmmm wonder who was president then). Gore is just is a fantasy in his own mind. They have been saying for years that electric cars would be the way to go and we would not have gas cars anymore. I was 6 then I am 32 now hmmmmmmmmmm.
I was also told back then there would be no fish left in Erie ( i lived close to it on the Canadian size) seems there might be a couple left now.
You know you get told a lot of things in life you just gotta be smart enough to pick through the crap and make changes with your own life.
Gore or Bush are both not two great choices for President and either one of there Presidency will reflect that. They will not have the power to change things on there reputations (just like the cigar loving President we have or was that his girlfriend who liked the cigars oh well memory fades me).
So sit back relax and reel another one in.

jumbo

[Gomez]

Eye love my counrty, but FEAR, my GOVERMENT !!!! Fish today, for tomorrow, you may not be allowed to, FISH ON !!!!

[Sampson]

The Clean Air Act was signed by Lyndon B. Johnson in 1963, but the real amendments were in the 70's and finally in 1990 when George Bush signed on the most recent version.

I don't know which presidents signed, but the Clean Water Act was passed by congress in 1972 and was finally settled in 1976 when a Federal Judge approved a settlement aggreement. It took until 1984 before industry had to comply to the pollution regulations. This was after about 15 lawsuits filed by environmental groups against the EPA to do something. The Natural Resources Defence Council and the Environmental Defense Fund were the key environmental groups that got the Clean Water Act passed.

The role of the president in both of these acts was very limited. Most of it was fought in court with environmental groups and industry groups suing the EPA constantly. Lake Erie is just one of the thousands of waterways that turned around after industry complied with the rule. These two pieces of environmental regulation have had massive effects toward cleaning the environment, and despite the industry groups contentions, the economy has not collapsed.

Saying that Gore is proposing the "elimination" of combustion engines sounds like Rush Limbaugh rhetoric. His goal is to push toward the development of cleaner, more sustainable sources of energy. The government is not going to confiscate anybodys boat motor. What will happen is a gradual phase-out of the current 2-stroke and it won't happen anytime too soon (you'll probably still be able to buy one in 2017 - only then it will certainly be 300 ponies).

Environmental regulation is not necessarily bad for business. It pushes companies like Mercury to develop cleaner and more efficient engines and ends up selling more of a great product. It also creats opportunities for companies to develop pollution control technology.

It always suprises me that sportsmen who are usually rather protective of the resource (catch and release, no littering, etc) are often the ones opposing environmental regulations and yelling "tree hugger".

Consider this: How many environmental regulations go too far compared to how many that don't go far enough or the lack of regulation period? Go listen to a legislative session when environmental issues are being voted on, it may open your eyes. Think about how bad our major waterways would be without the environmental groups who pushed so hard for the regulations. Lake Erie would be an eternal flame without them.

The walleye fishing community need not worry about environmental regulations that are too stringent. I'm not saying that walleye fishermen should vote for Gore (I know I'm not) to promote fishing, I would just argue that it is so much more complicated than just Gore vs Bush. I also don't think that a vote for Bush will send the whole environment back-sliding into oblivion.

You'd be better off voting 3rd party (I don't even know who that is... Nader???) so they get enough votes to qualify for federal campaign $ and can debate on TV. Someday a 3rd party candidate will win big because of the reasons Jesse got elected in MN. Someday they'll find an independent thinker, who is intelligent, well respected, and has integrity and he'll will show the Dems and Reps that their corrupt power can't win forever. Mark my words.

P.S. The cold war is over, drop the "comrade" schtik

[Sampson]

Jeff:

All companies in the United States are allowed to release PCBs and Mercury, the two chemicals responsible for fish consumption guidelines.

Wisconsin is one of the most stringent states, and they allow each facility to release 274 pounds of mercury/year into the air. Many states do not regulate the amount of chemicals allowable for release. The current source of mercury and pcb in the great lakes is deposition from the air.

[crash]

Fact: The internal combustion engine is the most leathal device man has ever created and used.

Fact: All petrolium based products are polutiant, dangerous, and unhealthy.

Fact: The clean air and water bills have done nothing for the enviroment, only the fact that the chemicals are no longer being produced because of pending lawsuits is the enviroment benifitting.

Fact: All politicians are evil, lie spewing puppets

Fact: Nothing short of a revolution is going to change anything. Money rules and guess what my friends, none of you have enough of it.

Now that I've said my piece, LETS GO RED WINGS!!
i'm going fishin..

[Trapper John]

It probably won't matter anyways if Gore is elected the price of gas will be so hi you won't be able to afford it anyway. All we can do is hope people will see the light and don't elect this so called environmentalist. Clinton and Gore are trying to lock up as much of your land as they can before the election. I hate to think of what will happen to government land if Gore gets in. He'll turn the whole country into a wilderness area.

[jeff reed]

Wrong again pal. Poly chorinated biphynols (PCB} formerly used in electrical transformers are never allowed to discharge in air or water in the state of Michigan. Mercury, being a natural element is allowed only to the extent that it occurs in nature (i.e coal). These are considered a hazardous substance and are disposed of in a approved HAZMAT landfill. Sorry about Wisconsin laws.

[Jeff Reed]

Jumbo, you be the Man. Loved your response. Keep on reelin them in.

[Wall-nut]

I know a couple of guys who drive refuse trucks and used to dump in a local landfill (that has since been closed). The government placed limits on the gross tonnage of acceptable refuse per landfill. Each truck was weighed as it entered the area. I asked them what happens if the maximum was reached before the predetermined time. They said that they would simply detour the scales and dump their load. The politicians and law enforcement people looked the other way because, I assume, they had fulfilled their bureaucratic obligations and as far as the public was concerned...what they don't know won't hurt them. The moral of the story is: When over zealous acivists pressure politicians into enacting unenforceable and impractical regulations and when common sense is ignored, the intent of positive action, regardless how noble or worthy, produces contrary results. When people like Aldo are willing to sacrifice someone's livelyhood for extreme action they fail to recognize the reality of the situation. A practical-thinking working man with a family and monthly bills will hardly volunteer for unemployment and, perhaps, poverty for the sake of extreme environmentalism. There's room for clean air, water AND jobs. Guys like Aldo and Gore must get their heads out of their butts.

[jeff Reed]

Clean Water Act was signed by Richard M. Nixon. A great well thought-out response Sampson. I enjoy a deep thinker as yourself. Sorry to tell you, but that is not what Gore was quoted in his speech in Romulus, MI. He stands by phasing out piston engines without other technology in sight. That my friend will give G.W.Bush Michigan's electoral votes in 2000. Take it to the bank.

[jeff reed]

Sorry to inform you, but there hasnt been a nuclear power facility built in the last 15 years. Too expensive. The general trend is to convert coal fired power plants to cleaner burning gas fired ones.

[Don]

You need a little lesson in manufacturing. Texas is in the 49th position because of its total output and the products made. I get so sick and tired of all these environmentalists that want cars that get 50 mpg, but don't want a chemical plant making acrylonitrile to make plastics for lighter cars. They don't want refineries making fuels so they can take their snooty booties to the local greenpeace meeting. Texas is a mega manufacturing state that produces a lot of chemicals and oil / gas products, not to mention semiconductor too. The nature of these businesses is that they are not clean. You can't get A without B.

Another thing regarding big businesses neglecting the environment. You ever read some of these hunting conservation magazines? Cheveron has been in many DU projects. DuPont has made major contributions to the wildlife projects. Miller Beer and Ahneiser Busch, large process companies, sponsor many conservation projects. BP Oil has put into place an artificial reef in Lake Erie. Those are just a few. Now, no one will say these companies are unblemished, but they certainly don't deserve the bull$hit black eye people like you propose, and neither does the state of Texas.

Al Gore is as much to the environment as Bill Clinton is to Marital Fidelity. Gore's own family has land that is environmentally condemned. He has it burried in appeals so deep that the papers turn a blind eye to it. They are seeking an agreement from the EPA known as a covenant not to sue. In other words, he can sell it and absolve everyone of liability.

Get used to it bubby, just say it again "President George Bush". The american people have had enough of the current White Trash in the White house. Step aside/

[jeff reed]

You are right, they lost their jobs. Now they have new jobs and during those new jobs they say, "WELCOME TO WAL_MART CAN I GET YOU A CART or WELCOME TO BURGER KING MAY I TAKE YOUR ORDER?"

[JEFF REED]

WALL NUT I LOVE YOU. ALDO and Gore dont realize that big diesel trucks haul peoples trash away.

[Jeff Reed]

RIGHT ON BROTHER. YOUR THINKING HAS MY APPROVAL.

[Allen]

One thing you should keep in mind. As Gore proposes pipe dreams that technology cannot support it goes to show that the "environmentalists" act without searching out all the consequences. One only has to look back at the fuel additive MTBE. IT was to be the cure all , oxygenated fuels. What did we get from it? Nausea at the fuel pumps from fumes, seal problems in fuel systems, and MTBE in our drinking water. Imagine that, good intentions that led use to more trouble. Better sit back and think before you say all those regulations are so great. I have worked in process plants all over for the last 15 years. I can tell you, the epa regs are nothing but a dance. In the process industry, you can credit them for the the downturn in the economy in the late 80's until just previous to the current rise. There were so many dollars spent on compliance and unfunded mandates that little was spent to upgrade efficiency in plants. All the budget for projects was in for environmental mandates. If not for the strong base of the economy as a whole at that time, we might have really seen a downturn. I guess the old saying applies, careful what you ask for you might just get it.

[brw]

I vote to ban Jeff Reed from this site for floating a bunch of B.S. political half truths and Rush Limbaugh blabber on a site devoted to walleye fishing. I'll bet you a loomis rod we'll all be enjoying our internal combustion engines forever even if Gore(the antichrist) is elected.Why don't you refrain from political crap like this and attorney bashing on this site. Just take it somewhere else. I'm sick of reading all this $%^&&#* about guns and tree huggers and stupid *** remarks about hillary and reno when I'd rather be reading about jigs and rods and pulling walleyes out of weeds. JUST GIVE IT A BREAK!!!!!

[A sportsman]

Brw, while you are right about one aspect of what this board is for, we must also keep abreast of the antis and work together to defeat them. That is just one aspect of this board. This board as I understand it is for posting of usefull information from walleye anglers to other walleye anglers. That is a very broad spectrum. What difference does it make if one (very large) post about Gore/Clinton and the rest of the antichrist's (as you say)have to do with being a detractant to this site? If you do not like these types of posts, then why read them? There is plenty of usefull information here for all.
God bless Rush Limbaugh, and Janet Reno really is a man.

[Like]

You mean like anybody else here using a pseudo name and no e mail addy?

[jeff reed]

I pick up alot of trash by lakes and unfortunately it has things printed on that trash called Rapala, Storm, Coke, Acme Night crawlers.

[jeff reed]

So walk to the Red Wings game and pull your row boat with Juan Valdez's little donkey. Mr Gore will be proud of you as he heads to Harvard in a new piston driven limo to drop his daughter off.

[You missed the point]

Big time.
Your post is correct in that without habitiat, there is no wildlife.
However,with Gore's and the other tree hugging, dirt munching, city dwelling druids, the land acquisition is only the first step. They want to ban all hunting, fishing and tree use in all these lands.
Right now, there is even a huge push to ban vehicle traffic in our national parks, they say it is hurting the forests.
If Bush's state ranks 49th for pollution, where does Gore's or Clintons states rank? And how about median income and the poverty level? And what about education?
Clinton and Gore have the Bizzaro Midas touch. Everything they touch turns to crap.
You are corret that leaving business to regulate the environment is silly, but so is an out of control eco terrorist at the helm of the country. And, you are right about the fact the Wolf River mine "could" pollute the watershed and that would be a disaster that no one would want.
However, I feel that the mine would be a very important source of jobs and growth to the area, but it has to be done right.
You talk of intolerance to change, dont throw up your arms and scream no when you have heard the word mine.
Also, why are you not all up in arms over the current condition of the lower wolf or more specifically Fox River? Or the Mississippi? Or the great Lakes?
And dont hand us that Global warming crap. The people who are running around yowling about the hole in the ozone are telling you 10 year old therories. They dont tell you that current information is leaning towards two things.
1) The normal cycle of climate changes could normally happen faster than anyone had previously thought. And they have only been keeping temperature records for a relatively short time in the sceme of the history of the world. They only discovered the hole in the ozone layer, and have no idea how long it has actually been there. This comes from scientisits that I saw on Nova and Scientific American Fronteers.
2) The hole in the ozone opens and closes each year and fluctuates from year to year and within the same season. It has also been forcast that the hole will tend to be smaller than when they got all freaked out about it. And that our ground level ozone and hydrocarbon emmisions, at the levels they arwe at now, could do little to harm the ozone.
Do you also realize that there are more trees in the US now than when Columbus landed in the wrong place?
You also suggest that you have done plenty while I have done nothing. Well, listen here, I have served and fought to protect our outdoor heritage, and do more than you could even know to protect our environment, our way of life and preserve the resouce for future generations and teach children and begginers about all aspects of outdoor life.
I did not question your motives and life, yet you resort to doing it to several of us.
My home will never be destroyed in a 100 year flood as I do not live in a flood plane!
I also would like to point out that the damming and dyking/levying(if there ias such a word) of our rivers does more to cause these floods than if the control systems were not there.
What do you think we should do, blow all the dams?
And lastly, I agree that I too would glady walk into the boss's office and tell him I have more important things to do such as hunt and fish the rest of my life with my children.
And , I do vote, to make sure that can happen. How can anyone aspouse voting for the administration that is allowing money grubbing lawyers to try and sue the gun makers out of existence? What will you hunt with then, a slingshot?
GW may not be the total answer in himself, but the conservative appointees to the Supreme court and maintaining the current level of conservatives in the Congress will go a lot further towards the goal we both obviously seek, without us having to use horse drawn carriges and rowing our boats.
I NEVER said I was against progress, but until the better motor comes along, I am **** happy with the DFI outboard on my boat.

[Or]

As he uses a motorcade full of busses and suv's as he finally stops hiding from the press and gets back into his campaigning. P.S. Mr Gore, if you go into an abby and there are a bunch of images and icons of Buddah and Buddist images and people wearing hoods and robes, it is probably a buddist temple or monistary.

[Stinger]

Anytime you get a 65 message response to such a dead issue it scares me. Anyone who would argue against Piston engines in 17 years needs a full time job. Jeff you wore this one out.Try a new more fun topic. Are you fishing the Tittabawasee on the opener? Foster

[You mean]

You mean contaminated by MBTE? Gee, I wonder who forced that crap down our throats! Hmm

[jeff reed]

Sure I'm fishing the Tib on the opener with my piston driven Mercury 2 stroke outboard got somebody to fish with?

[Jeff reed]

I'm the only person here that uses my real name, I dont have to hide behind names like "anonomous".

[jeff reed]

To: You missed the Point...... I think your post was the best and its obvious you have a good head on your shoulders and know what your talking about. I'll tip my hat to you anyday.....Jeff

[Yes, well,]

Okay, you have quoted the manequin's book. But, when is the last time Gore, or Bill or Pres Hillary actually did what they said? These three embarassments to human kind lie so much the dont even know their own names. Is a printed page from a two faced jackal, or Hillary or Bill, what you want to base your decision on? Of course, that depends on your definition of the word, IS!

[jeff reed]

Thanks for the support brother.

[jeff reed]

That's what the attorney/politicians want you to do......be so concerned about jigs, rods, pulling walleyes out of weeds and trying to ban people like me from expressing my views so that they can control your life. Thank you spelling my name correctly. Somebody tell me if I've got the record for the largest most controversial post on Walleye Central.

[cisco]

Are you looking to establish a controversy record or promote dialogue? Count the posts -- look how many are yours.

In defense of tree-huggers, environmentalists, and others concerned about our future, don't forget that Sen. Gaylord Nelson (Father of Earth Day) was the person most responsible for progressive clean water/air legislation. I'll take tree-huggers like him any day. As for Bush, simply look to his state to see how effective he's been in his top category (education) or in environmental affairs. Bush's greatest asset is his accidental birth. With other parents you would never know of him.

[Wall-nut]

Trapper: Just as a point of interest regarding the high price of gas...I think it's safe to say that high prices are a product of government manipulation in an attempt to modify and control the consumer's spending and usage habits. A story appeared in our local fish-wrap yesterday that the gas prices at the Seneca Nations pumps had dipped to 83.9 cents per gallon. That's approximately what we'd all be paying right now without over-taxation!!!!

[Mrrugs]

Dialogue. Dialogue. Dialogue. In typical liberal fashion, freedom of speech only seems to apply to opinions which agree with yours, BRW.

[That's the same thing as-]

Thats the same thing as the Liberal trying to get suv's off the road or taxed silly, yet every presidential motorcade has several of them. That is the way the Liberal mind works my friends. It is okay for them to do something because they are smart enough to handle it and they know better, while you/us on the otherhand are not smart enough to make our own decisions for ourselves, we dont know what is good and safe for us. They love to create controvcersy and get us all worked up over an issue and then, behind the scenes the real issues are dealt with.

[Sampson]

And how many pounds of mercury are released at coal-burning power plants in MI annually? Additionally, PCB's are formed anytime heat, organics, and chlorine get together. Even automobile exhaust creates tiny amounts of PCB's, furans, and dioxins.

I'm not arguing that we should ban electricity and cars. I'm just pointing out the fact that the chemicals responsible for fish consumption warnings are still being released. Poly chlorinated biphenyls have been greatly limited, but mercury emissions are still quite high due to coal-burning power plants and chemical manufacturing. There is a lot going on in the area of mercury emissions currently.

I'm glad to hear that MI has strict environmental regulations, most states do not.

Pal.

[concerned in Minn]

If Gore was just for a cleaner environment, that would be fine. But he goes way beyond what is reasonable. If he has his way, there would be no powered boats, no snowmobiles, etc and all national parks and forests would be totally off-limits to all citizens. He and Clinton are currently by-passing congress to set aside millions of acres of federal lands and get huge tracts of natl forests designated as roadless, to cut off our recreation opportunities.

[cmb]

ok I will try to ignore the politicks (because both sides are spewing miss and half truths and misleading info) and try to sum up how I think most of us feal about the environment.
1) we need to do somthing to improve it, even though it is generaly in better shape than when we were kids
2) We will do anything to help it so long as it does not cost us too much or inconvenience us
3)We don't want to pass our our problems and polution on to future generations, but don't want to sacrafice anything in the present.
4)all those who activly try to do somthing about it are anti's, tree huggers, comunists, or #$%^$%'es and freaks.

my point: do somthing to help the environment
If you profess to be a fisherperson and enjoy nature do your part to protect it. Be be part of a solution not part of the problem. we all impact the environment in a negative way, do your best to reduce this, within reason, and have a good day

[Aldo]

Which means more places to hunt and fish!!! Bring it on>

[Aldo]

You got two feet, WALK! Or try the other machine called a bike.

[Aldo]

Well it was fun while it lasted. Enough babble for one week. Time to go fishing. Got big tournament to think about this weekend.

Good fishing everyone!

[bob oh]

Get real, Gore WROTE about it in a book....he did not say I PLAN to eliminate the engine...he said we sound be able to REPLACE with a better PRoPULSION system. I'm not a Gore fan, but I'm am surely not a fan of misrepreseting or misstating the facts and always screaming "the sky is falling".
Bob

[Al Gore]

I know my idea sounds wacky, but I swear I DID NOT INHALE EITHER!

[cmb]

if these are all facts I need to go back to school!
please don't spread these false statments!