HELP ! My new 2002 Lund if frozen solid (not the motor)

[fsh_and_hnt]

Hello :

I need some advice, or better yet, reassurance. My stomach is in knots and I'm worried sick about my boat. Let me describe what happened. (First off, my boat is a 2002 Lund Fisherman 1800).

I took my boat to a local marina to have the motor's idle adjusted and have the boat winterized. This was about 1 month ago. They worked on the boat, then put it in their yard and tarped it for me until I could go and get it. They closed up shop for 3 weeks to go deer hunting, and so I was only able to just go and get it this past Thursday. I towed it home and put it in the driveway until this morning. Today my plan was to shovel the snow off the tarp, take the tarp off, pull out the batteries, clean it up a bit, re-tarp it and then build a little A-frame shelter over it and tarp that so it would shed snow.

Well, when I pulled the tarp off this morning, I saw water sloshing on top of the carpeted decking, from the back of the boat upwards about one third of the way to the bow. When I opened the comparment door to the bilge area and looked in, I saw that the whole inside was SOLID ICE !! My cranking battery, and bilge was encased in one giant ice cube. Similarly, my 2 other battteries, which are in the battery comparment located mid-way along the length of the boat dead center, must also be encased with ice. I can't open the door to see though. It's frozen solid. I'm positive they are, however, because the door into that comparment is bulged upwards about 1/4". It's also my assumption that the entire underneath of the deck, between the floor and the hull, is solid ice - for at least the back third of the boat.

I can guess how it got this way. The marina water tested the boat and motor after making the adjustments, and so the drain plug was in. They must have forgot to take it out. Then they went away for 3 weeks, during which time we got over a foot of snow, causing the tarp to slump into the boat. Then we got quite a bit of rain, melting the snow, which found it's way through the tarp and under the deck. Then, this last week and a half turned bitterly cold, freezing all the water.

My boat is now in my brother-in-laws heated garage, thawing. I towed it over there this afternoon. After I got it there, I sucked out at least 48 gallons of water with his 12-gallon wet/dry vac. the ice is still frozen solid. That was just water that must have recently went in there and hasn't froze yet.

My reason for writing is to find out what you all think might be the bad news resulting from all this. This boat has a 35-gallon internal gas tank that goes the length of the boat under the deck. Do you think this may have been structurally damaged ? Dented ? Intake and output pipes ripped off ? How do I get in there to check ? What other damage to the boat might have occurred ? Will my batteries be toast ? Anything else at all I need to check ?

I can't believe this has happened. This is my first boat I have EVER owned. I just bought it at the end of the season. Sept. 29th. I've only had it on the water twice - 5 hours total. I've been saving forever for my dream boat and this was it.

So - what I'm really hoping to hear from you guys is that everything will be ok once it's thawed, drained, and dried. What I really want to hear is that I can rest easy between now and spring - and not be worried sick that my $20,000 boat is wrecked. The knot in my stomach right now as I write this is incredibly painful and worrying. However, if there is some bad news, I also need to know that. God - I can't believe how I feel over a BOAT !!! I almost have to laugh, but I'm so worried right now I can't.

Please - I appreciate any advice and reassurances !!

You can reply by posting or by e-mail at

fish_and_hunt@hotmail.com

Thank you to all.

Shawn

[jim c]

take pictures, get documentation,get in touch with your marina ,get lawer advice,sue.thats why marinas have insurance.

[Juls_OH]

Take a deep breath Shawn, and don't let it worry you. Let it thaw completely, get the water out, and let it dry... and then take a look around. The boat should be ok. Just check all the fittings and the batteries, like you mentioned. That's all easy enough to fix if there was damage.

Lunds are well made, so I don't think you have to worry that ice caused damage to the boat itself.

Don't let this eat you up. Stomach linings are very hard to fix...;-)

Merry Christmas, and enjoy your new boat!

Juls

[Juls_OH]

Why is it always "sue" as the first response?

Sure, I agree...take pictures to document it, but turn it in to the insurance company not a lawyer. From what he stated, I take it he knew they were leaving for three weeks, and they did tarp it for him. He could have had someone else go and pick it up for him, if he knew they would be done with it, and he wouldn't be able to go and get it. Is it their fault if the tarp is not a custom boat cover that didn't fit properly?

Turn it into the insurance if there is a problem, not a lawyer. That's what insurance is for. Accidents.

Just my opinion.

Juls

[Dutchman]

DO NOT TURN ON ANY THING WHILE THE BOAT IS FROZEN UP!!!!!!!!!Take the pictures, and have them developed. Call the Marina, they may agree to help out. After everything thaws you'll be able to check things out for damage. IF the batteries where fully submerged,they are shot. So you know you,(or the marina), is gonna have to buy new battereies. As long as nothing gets turned on you shouldn't have any burned out motors on the livewell pumps or bilge pump, however inspect them closely for cracks. Look every thing over closely to see if anthing struturally has shifted. Chances of this happening is minimal, but check any way. I suspecting everthing will do OK except the batteries.


" Fishing is the pursuit of what is elusive but attainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope "

[bountyhunters]

CALL your insur company NOW GET THEM INVOLVED NOW not later get the adjuster there to see it in real life mode . can't hurt to let them know whats happened .jim

[Brad]

Juls, I think your missing the point. Assuming the boat arrived at the marina with the bilge plug out, the marina was grossly incompetent for leaving the plug in. Removing the bilge plug while a boat is on the trailer is one of the most basic fundamentals of proper boat care.

Shawn, get busy documenting and reporting the incident NOW!!!!
Take pictures, call the marina, call your insurance agency, contact the manufacturer to get their advice, etc. etc. I don't know about suing right off the bat, but it wouldn't hurt to contact a lawyer to find out what your options are.

Naturally, structural damage is the concern. The two major concerns I would have would be excessive exposure of the wood to moisture and freeze expansion between structural members (stringers and hull). I would be concerned about the transom and deck rotting prematurely. Yeah, it's marine grade wood, but the stuff still rots.

[Shellback]

Not to be a bearer of bad news, but I would really be surprised if everything was okay after the thaw. You've got plastic bilge pumps, livewell pumps, plastic fittings and hoses. These are all subject to the expansion of the ice. Also the ice could have pushed up on your flooring, loosening it. I would think if you delivered the boat to the dealer with the drain plug out of the boat, and they installed it for the water test and then never removed it for storage, they should be held liable for damages. As the other post stated, it's a basic principal to remove a drain plug when the boat is stored on a trailer. I don't care what kind of cover you have on a boat, you pull the drain plug! Of course we don't know if you were notified the boat repairs were done and you were to pickup the boat and then you didn't get there before they closed for hunting. I know if it was my boat and the damage wasn't the result of me not picking the boat up when I was called, I'd be building a case. A couple hundred dollars spent now on a professional marine survey would be my first course of action. Ice busts cast iron engine blocks, do you think ice expanding inside of ribs and stringers isn't going to loosen rivets? Get a professional to look at that boat, and not the dealer you left it with. I doubt if he'd like to find any hidden problems.

[Give it a break]

My question is where can you say that the dealership put the boat in the water to test it?Its not neccesary to put the boat in the water to set the idle.My guesss is that it went to the dealership with the plug in it and that the way it left.It wont hurt the boat at all.REMEBER all you SUE hungry people, there are two sides to evry coin.

[REW]

1. Call your insurance company.
2. With a bilge full of frozen water, it is likely you will have the following problems:

a. Burst livewell, and drain hoses - all hoses should be replaced.
b. Burst livewell pump - on the possibility that there was water in the livewell, that drained to the pump and froze.
c. Burst bilge pump, if the pump were encased in ice.
d. Buckled floor boards. If the floor boards are pushed up , they
have likely pulled fastners in the floor loose.
e. Possible defored fuel tank, If the tank were enclosed in ice, it is likely that the tank was compressed.
f. Possible buckled hull plates. If the floor were pushed up; it
is quite likely that the aluminum hull were pushed out, and
possibly weakened.

In these circumstances ; it is not unlikely that the insurance company might total the boat. In which case; you would simply step into a new boat in the spring. Otherwise, at the very least, after all of the ice is thawed; and the water drained - the floor should be completely removed. Only by removing the floor; can any and all damage be assessed. Any thing less; will be a shot in the dark, which might or might not discover all damage; until you find your self sinking on the way out from the dock.

Good luck.

Certainly don't worry about sueing, or an attorney. Things like this are what insurance policies are all about. The plug was in, and someone forgot to pull it. Perhaps you, perhaps the marina. It doesn't really matter, because the damage is done.
Also, if the tarps had properly shed the water; as expected; there would have been 0 damage done.
If it hadn't snowed, and rained; there would have been 0 damage done.
So - perhaps you should blame nature.

Contact your insurance company, and follow their instructions. That is why you have insurance.

Take care
REW

[steve(IL)]

I saw a late model Lund in this condition at M&W Marine in Milwaukee. It was uncovered - sitting 50 ft from the entrance to the service department - and full of water and ice - with the plug in! I took it upon myself to remove the plug. Disgusted at seeing a late model boat getting roughed up like that, I went in the service dept to inquire. Their position was that the owner didn't come to pick up his boat and that he was responsible for it. When I asked why they couldn't at least pull the plug and jack the tongue up - they all just stood there. They felt no responsibility for the condition of the boat.

I've been at boat dealerships where new boats had standing water in them!! It's hard to imagine that nobody thinks to pull the plug, but I've seen it several times. Keep this in mind if you're buying a left-over boat. How and where was it stored? Shine a light way up in
the bilge and look for evidence that it sat uncovered with water in it.

[Dutchman]

Shawn, Insurance companys see totaling a boat in a different light. Depending on your insusarnce policy, the Ins Co. may total the hull, but not the trailer or motors. Most Ins Co. do not allow for the derigging of the old hull or the expense of hunting for another hull or rerigging the new hull. They may total the hull and then allow you to repurchase at the salvage value if you would choose to do so. This can be a great deal for you if you can live with the imperfections that caused the boat to be totaled. All is not well when it comes to replacement cost either. You may have your hull insured for $15,000.00 and your paying the premium on that $15,000.00 When the Ins Co. decides to total they will look at the blue book value of the hull and base there reimbursment on those figures, less deductable. Depending on how long you've owned the boat that amount could be far less than the amount your that your premium say's your paying for. Fixing is another story, there are pitfalls ther also. With an aluminum boat there is no such thing as a 100% fix. Ripples and dents in aluminum boats are there forever, as the metal has been stretched. You can get them to stop leaking but there will always be an imperfection, unless the entire portion damaged is replaced. This is cost prohibitive in most cases and then you're back to totaled. I certainly hope your boat is not damaged, and your spring fishing adventures are not dampend because of this. Please keep us informed. No matter what happens nobody's going to take away your birthday, so chin up and rack it up to Sh1t Happens :)




" Fishing is the pursuit of what is elusive but attainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope "

[jim c]

thats what I said!

[Hook'em]

Why didn't the automatic bilge kick in when water was filling the bilge?

Check for popped rivots and open seams. Ice is very powerful.

[Wiley Walleye]

Shawn,
You have read it many times on this site: buy from a good dealer. Hopefully it is the same dealer you just bought your boat from in Sept. Everyone has talked about your insurance, What about the dealers insurance? Be sure to get them involved either thru your good dealer or your insurance company can contact theirs. Thes guys talk the same language and can decide who is at fault.
I would rather not see atty get involved. Ins co. have attys too. If you choose the atty route, ask for a consulting meeting first and at what rate for one hour. Better to spend 150.00+ up front to find out what they can or can not do, before you end up owing more to them than the boat is worth or even a good part of it.
You have read post from do not worry to worry. The problem is I have seen it both ways. I even had a guy next to my dock who never took his boat out of the lake and I'll be #$** if it did not start every year. Now, eventually the boat paid a price, but for 10 yrs this drove me nuts.
One thing we all agree on is Best of luck and be sure to dry it out totally, not just surface.
See you on the water in Your boat
Joe