Tracker boats make claim that they cannot support

[John]

First of all, this post is not intended re-open the welded vs. riveted boat debate. There have been enough posts to that subject already. This post is however intended to simply challenge a product claim and allow the manufacturer to validate the claim that they themselves make.
I recently received the 2003 Bass Pro Marine catalog.
In the Tracker section of the catalog, there is a statement made that "...welded hulls last longer than riveted hulls". That statment kind of jumped out at me, and I decided to find out what that claim is based on. I wanted to find out if that claim was based solely on somebody in their marketing department's opinion, or is it based on some source of actual data that they have generated.
I wrote to BP asking them, and they in turn referred me to the local dealer. All I got there was the local salesperson's personal opinion on the subject. I then contacted the Tracker boat company. After getting the run-around there, it became obvious where this was going. When all was said and done, they were unable to site me one single piece of documented information or provide me any kind of evidence to validate their claim. I certainly gave them every opportunity to do so.
As I suspected, it is nothing more than a marketing claim that is wildly thrown about that cannot be supported by anything other than pure conjecture.
In contrast, when an outboard motor company for example makes a claim that their motor is quieter than a competitors, it's because they have actually conducted tests, have taken decible readings etc, and as a result, can make a claim that can be supported.
Whats the point of all this? If a manufacturer is going to make a claim about their product, they need to be able to back it up.

[BT]

Chevy Truck...Like Rock?
Ford Tough...?
Hey goofball can you prove those? What makes a chevy truck like a rock, and what the heck is ford tough? It is advertising, can you show that riveted hulls last longer? I believe many of the larger ocean ships are welded. Odds are they are a bit older than the average lund. Hoped I helped with adding to your commonsense and sense of wellbeing...BT

[Toolman]

"Setting the water on fire"? That happens all the time! Whoops... forgot about Cleveland:7

Tim

[NC]

If Chevy claimed they were "like a rock" and everyone else was like a marshmellow, then I think you would be making a good comparison. As it stands, I think John is correct in his thougth process of wanting and deserving an answer to Trackers claim.
NC

[BT]

I gave an answer ya goof! Must larger ships including the military ships are welded...They last longer...Next I am on a roll...Marshmellow...that is funny nice try....BT

[Big Difference]

"Like a rock"
"Ford tough"
Those are slogans and generalizations. They do not make a direct comparison to another object.
Big difference.
What BPS said is the same as saying: "Ford engines last longer than the Chevy's". or "23 is a better number than 32".
You say something like that, you need data to prove it.
What they should have said to be legal is : "Our welded Tracker hulls might last longer than our riveted TRACKER hulls".

[perchjerker]

John and others-

Just curious what you think of a statement like this:

"brand x owners have the edge in comfort, and, of course, brand x anglers have the best designed boats for serious fishing."

Is this a false statement as well?

makes no difference who brand x is. Is this an opinion or are they stating it as fact?

[Goofball]

I would argue that making a specific advertising claim in direct comparison to an alternate hull technology should require the claimant to provide data in support of the claim. There is a clear difference between the concept of a potentially false and misleading claim i.e. unsubstantiated direct product comparison compared to advertising puffery “Like a Rock”, ‘Ford Tough” which make no direct comparison and therefore require no substantiation.

Your comparison of larger ocean vessel hull construction technology to the original posting seems pretty goofy to me (and at this point I’ll refrain from addressing you with some stereotypical, generally denigrating and small-minded term like “knucklehead”).

“Trust in God, everybody else bring data”

[JohnF]

...like a rock is a simile. These two dissimilar things are compared and in this case without a claim. You are allowed to decide for yourself how a Chevy is like a rock. Perhaps they sink like a rock as a recent Ford commercial has suggested.

"Ford Tough" doesn't mean anything. It is a marketing trick to get you to associate Ford with the idea of tough. They do not claim to be anything except "Ford Tough".

Tracker has apparently made a claim. John would like to know how they came to the conclusion. Your huge commercial ship example may very well be their logic such that they can technically make the claim assuming that they can also show riveted versions of same that did not hold up well.

So, what is it that you don't like? That someone is questioning claims made in advertising?

John (That is, I'm JohnF not John but my name is John)

[Big Difference]

Brand X did not compare themselves to a specific alternative.

Not at all the same.

What BPS did is very specific, untrue, and unethical, if not illegal.

[David Anderson]

Well, if you assume that a riveted hull has some sealant between the seams prior to riveting, and you assume that at some point in time either a rivet will come loose or the sealent will rot, then I suspose they could have a case, assuming of course that no welds break. On the other hand if you take a welded hull an put it next to a riveted hull, set them in a field, come back in 10,000 years, I suspect they would probably look the same.

[JohnF]

>"brand x owners have the edge in comfort, and, of course,
>brand x anglers have the best designed boats for serious
>fishing."

The first half implies that there has been some sort of comparison and I wouldn't feel uncomfortable asking for that data. They could respond with "of the brand X customers we have asked" or "as reported to us by J.D. Powers..." and you would then know the basis for the claim.

The second half, (after the "and" ) is a bit of advertising trickery. Had they used the word "better" instead of "best" then they would have been qualifying the design against all others. By using "best" they aren't making any claim except that there exists some condition in which the design is best. (A better way to say it) All designs are best given some criteria.

John

Hmm, had an emoticon in there... should have previewed.
Hmm, did it again, I can get this right, I am intellegent...
Hmm, apparently cannot be removed with checkbox in edit...

[JohnF]

HA! I win.

[John]

John F.
You are correct. I in no way suggested that their claim was false, I simply wanted to know what they based their claim on. I am of the opinion that if a manufacturer (Lund, Tracker, Ranger or whoever) makes such a claim, I don't see anything wrong with requesting information from that manufacturere as to what sort of evidence they have to support such a claim.

[JohnF]

Yes, I am publicly speaking to myself. I'll shut up now...

[Mech]

The larger Ships you refer to are steel not aluminum which is by nature extremely rigid where steel will give aluminum will not making the potential for increased stress.

[BT]

Welds are stronger than rivets...period. I was making fun of a goofy idea. I was acting goofy, as it is fun to see you boys get all revvvvvved up. I work in Advertising, so I found humor in this...BT

[Talks2much]

You still got a goofy idea!

[Guest]

No, BT, you were protecting your "turf". Period.

[Knock it Off]

Thanks why they weld airplanes?

[Correction]

Thats

Sorry

[BT]

I fish out of glass, because you guys fall for my ads and I can afford it. I am not protecting anything, just found it funny. That is all...BT

[Glass]

What are you drinking now BT?

[BT]

Also the airline industry is in a bit of financial trouble. They probably look for the cheapest way, not the strongest but I would not know. Thought we where speaking of boats....BT

[Shellback]

So as someone who works in advertising, I guess that gives you the expertise to say welds are stronger the rivets period! How about registering so we know who we are talking to?

[BT]

The guy who put up the post originally did not register, why should I. Also in order to be good at advertising you need to research a product, so I have looked into this area...BT

[MAGNA19]

boy,someone has way too much time on there hands to do all this research on it!!

someone needs to get a life!

[Hey BT]

And, the Customer is always right!
Right?
I ran one welded boat that was really strong. It was a 26' SteelCraft, and it was made from 3/16" steel.
Steel is not aluminum, but it is cheaper to weld it. Only problem is you can only weld a hull that is one layer thick, so you weaken the only layer you have, by welding on it. But, it took less employees to build a boat the welded way. So, the welded boat company saved money and that helps pay for ADVERTISING!!!
It is clear now.

[Koldfront Kraig]

I agree Magna.

This whole discussion is nonsense. If you don't like something, dont buy it!

I'm going to bed, good night all.

[rebelrn]

All I know is that BT sure sounds like an idiot to me....among other things.

[eyeLunker]

Just like any product and some poeple jump on the bandwagon and other needs facts before they purchase a product.Might be a sign not to purchase a tracker for that exact reason. Lets see yarcraft claims they make the strongest hull.Check out there website.....they have a bulldozer running over the hull of a yarcraft....Now thats backing a claim.I'm a believer!!!!!!!!!!"Keep it vertical"

[alumahead]

Gentlemen and ladies,
Take a look at the warranty
Manufactureing companies are very sensitive to warranty liability. If the rivited hulls were stronger they would carry a life time or in one other aluminum boat makers warranty bag a 20 year warranty (Tracker is Life time). ON the other hand, Lund is a 10 year depreciating warranty which simply means the consumer begins paying for an ever increasing amount of warranty as the boat grows older. This consumer pay out begins within the first two or three years of its being sold. If a maker builds them better they can back them better. Enough said!

[T-Mac]

That is not true.
Lund has lifetime on the hull seams, decks, floors. They have had this for several years.
I agree 100% that buyers should look over the warranty and understand it.
And let's not forget, this post is about truth in advertising.
Lund has a great warranty, but this thread is not about Lund.

[Jayman]

BT, you might be on to something. Wasn't the Titanic riveted? It didn't last long. :)

[JohnF]

Oops. You better check out your Lund warranty info. You are incorrect in what you have written.

<in edit> Should have read on. I see T-Mac sets it straight...

[Tracker185]

What do you have to say about that Tracker185? I'm lost for words T185, Tracker making Claims that they can't support. Tracker185 Do you think the Company Tracker is trying to pull a fast one. I don't think so T185 They are just saying a welded boat will last longer. Tracker185 What is w/ all these fisherman/ woman ( Mostly the men) that break everything down piece by piece. Again T185 I Just don't Know Maybe to much time on their hands, T185 you know we are right in a flat spot Ice fishing is all most done and done for most people and open water fish is just starting. I know what you mean Tracker185, I'm a little wound up myself. Hey Tracker185 You want to go fishing soon. T185 I was going to go this weekend but w/ this weather I guess there is always next week. Tracker185 what kind of boat do you have? T185 Don't tell anyone but I own a Tracker a Tracker185 But it has rivets, It's not welded, Does it leak Tracker185? No it does not Leak T185





Hey it's just a Boat!!!!!!




T185

[Jayman]

Split personalities?

[Jawjerker]

How big of an outboard motor can I put on your chevy truck????????

Jawjerker

[JohnF]

Tracker, you <tracker> crack me up <lund> man! Your <lund> sense of humor nearly makes me <tracker> bust a gut every <lund> now and <tracker> then. I laugh often over how you <lund> work up the audience with your relentless approach. Don't get me <tracker> wrong, I don't <lund> think you are just <tracker> spewing forth <tracker> junk, I <lund> believe you are just a <lund> happy guy that <lund> likes the <lund> boat he bought and the <lund> strong ribbing you can give to the <tracker> weak people that will <tracker> sink into its grip.

More <lund> power to you <lund> man!

John

[Ric]

Me thinks he is a few batteries shy of 36 volts.

[lost sailor]

once upon a time...

back when i was 18 yrs old i had just returned from a canoe trip in quetico park and decided that i was ready to buy my first fishing craft, a canoe. we had used a grumman in canada so i was partial to that brand based on my experience. as i looked at the choices at a local grumman dealer 2 salesmen approached and offered to help, pointing out that grumman canoes were made with the same type of rivets that were used in jet planes. being young and naive i asked "how is that better than regular rivets?" apparently that question had never been asked to the salesmen, they really had no good response. i guess my point is, do your own research, then you will be satisfied that you made the best choice. that why i like walleye central, the combined knowledge on this board will steer you in the right direction.

and i did buy the grumman canoe,

skip

[Jayman]

Like, a couple minnows short of a dozen?

[Ric]

Precisely.

[YamaLund]

You forgot to mention the biggest pieces of s__t on the roads. Dodge. My Old Pig Ain't Runnin. What a great company. They know that 95% of their truck transmissions are going to fail, but since it is not a safety issue, they don't recall them. I borrowed my brothers, and got stranded 9 hours away. Under warranty. No rental car. Nothing. Not to mention the other 46 visits back to the dealership in 5 years.

If it's got spark plugs, it's not a truck.
I would rather be stroked than rammed.
And I don't do bow ties!

[Arrowhead]

Industry Leading Lifetime Limited Warranty
Your 2003 Model Year Lund boat is backed by the premier warranty in the industry, including provisions for repairing or replacing defects in material and workmanship in double-riveted seams and wooden floors or decks while still owned by the original purchaser. When you talk with other dealers about other boat warranties, be sure they’re making direct comparisons because warranty language can be misleading. Your Lund dealer will tell you all about our unparalleled Lifetime Limited Warranty so that you can clearly see what sets us apart. It’s also a good idea to talk with Lund owners so that you can see that we stand behind our boats like no other company. We believe we make the best boats – and that’s why we can afford to offer the best warranty.

Copied from Lund website LIFE TIME WARRENTY to orginal purchaser.

[BT]

You guys speak of warranties...Heck if ya go with welded hulls you don't need no stinkin warranty. Warranty are for the weak riveted hulls compadre...BT KEEP IT REAL BABY>>>>>>>>

[T-Mac]

LOL!
Skip...if you are old like me...the salesmen probably meant the rivets were the same kind as used in airplanes...because they were aluminum...new fangled stuff.. :)

Thanks...LMAO

[Koldfront Kraig]

Beating a dead hoarse again.

[Husky]

Warranty reading is a lot of fun. it amazes me how the bold statement of a boats warranty is actually defined in the small print.

"Lifetime Warranty" claims one manufacturer----

the small print will tell you it is only covering the EXTERIOR welds on the hull. Anything in the stringers/transom on the inside,...well, you are on your own.


In responce to the original post, if another company (rivited hulls) had proof that Tracker's ad campaign hurt their sales and Tracker could not show substantiation of the facts they presented, Tracker would be held liable for damages. With the general recession and how it affects the boating industry, I would hope that Tracker can actuall prove their advertized claim.

[Al]

Their easy out for all of this is "our welded boats hold up much longer than the POS we made with rivets." That about covers them in fact, and defined terms.

[dale in mn]

how do you register....?

[shadowalker]

all states have there own version of lifetime warranty,,,,in ohio it is 10 years,,,so it looks like lund would be the winner here because i have never seen a tracker that old,,,,,lol,,,,shadowalker

[9mmBeretta]

If their welded boats are stronger...I'm buying it. 6 years and no leaks...no complaints here.

[JLDII]

You can't rivet naval ships. Many of them have 14" armour hulls, they have to be welded.

As for Tracker, or any other aluminum boat, glass is the class of the fishing boat market.

[Vikings Fan]

As the Wendy's commercial once said, "Where is the beef? Welded hulls have their own stuctural issues pertaning to welding of aluminum and stetch forming of aluminim. Some actual facts supporting Trackers advertising claims would help to enlighten all of us.