Mercury's Project X Motor !

[JLDII]

Well, today is the day. At about 10:30 central time, Mercury will release their new "Project X" motor for the public to see and buy.

Many people say when it is released, all other motors will become obsolete!

[Jim Carroll]

VERADO! Bring it on! Awesome technology! Jim Carroll NPAA #588

[erich]

Too bad it is 635 lbs.

[VeradoMan]

Gents, please don't get hung up on the physical weight. The key to this engine--any engine for that matter--is power-to-weight, which for Verado nothing else on the market even comes close to.

Over the course of development on this program, I have run this engine on numerous boat types, including Lunds, Trackers, Rangers, and Tritons. The performance, and especially the acceleration is literally something you won't believe until you actually get in the boat.

If you'd like more information, please check out www.mercuryverado.com. It's live and running as of this morning, and should answer most of your questions. If you have more, please post them, and I'll try to respond as quickly as I can.

Meanwhile, if over the coming months you have a chance to catch a boat ride, I'd highly encourage you to demo Verado. This is one exciting piece.

[Jerk Bait]

Curious.... what does 'Verado' mean or stand for??

[Toolman]

Can't anyone come up with something clever for the translation of Verado;)

[GJS]

The Suzuki DF250 with a 25" driveshaft is 69lbs lighter and is a 3.6 liter, compared to a 2.6 liter in the 250 Verado. I have never driven either and probably never will, just stating the specs.

[RunnIn Scared...]

You won't catch me buying another one of "Mercury's" hottest/latest
innovations. Just remember the last greatest motor that came from the Black crew....
Can you say OPTI-crap.
Hope the warranty is 5+ years for those who do venture into deep water....buy one and enjoy being the real test group!

[bayman]

anybody know where i can veiw some test reports on these motors?

[VeradoMan]

Verado stands for performance, reliability, smoothness, and technology.

Regarding testing, by start of production we will have finished a battery of tests that will number approximately 25,000 hours. Further, the SmartCraft Digital Throttle and Shift system has been validated to 50,000 hours, more than any other control system on the market. The engine has been designed from the ground up as a reliable powerplant, and the $100 million we spent in development includes a brand new, state-of-the-art manufacturing system which includes a multitude of in-process validation points. Each and every engine goes through all these validation points, not just randomly selected components. For example, the cylinder head/valve train is assembled, but before it goes on to the next point in the process, it goes through a computer-controlled validation point which checks a number of things, including valve lash and function, torque specs, etc. Each assembled engine also goes through a "cold spin", which means it is turned over without actually starting it. This allows you to check the validity of a number of other functions. Then each engine is hot tested and put through a running check before it is boxed. I am fully confident you will find Verado to have world-class reliability.

[jon]

Check out Shaw Grigsby's show, he ran the Verado all last year and can't say enough good things about it.

[VeradoMan]

Sorry, I forgot to address the question on test reports. We will be conducting extensive competitive benchmarking with product product in March. We have, of course, been testing along the way, but the data you will want is with full production units.

Also, 22 writers from all of the key magazines/publications attended our media event last month, and this Spring there will be a number of interesting articles appearing on a regular basis.

There will no doubt also be product shoot-outs, probably more toward the Summer months.

Stay tuned.

[PJM]

VeradoMan


I think it is amazing is the amount of horsepower this motor put out for the size of the block. A lot of times you would not see the same size block for that many models . The supercharger must make this motor fly.........

[Bravadoman]

Verado - noun = blown (as in supercharged) and also having a propensity to blow (see Optimax) and extract large amounts of cash from one's pocket.

[mrbreeze]

$100 Million? How about $99 Million. $1 Million looks to have been spent on the website.

Anybody else think it looks like the creature from the Alien movies?

[VeradoMan]

Believe me, it's just as mean, but a #### of lot quieter.

[bayman]

What about price$$$$$$$

[bayman]

just talked to a dealer........$16,800 for a 250

[BoatShopper]

Verado latin for"Mushroom Cloud", no longer will a slight puff of smoke come from a mercury when she goes. Now a Verado will reach high into the sky, high enough so guys all over the lake can count how many Mercury's blow in a day.....I for one think it is a tremendous marketing campaign...."Verado the only thing obsotlete about these motors is a small puff of smoke......we got it right this time" YEAH RIGHT!!!

[fishnutttttt]

I come from the industry and I must tell you that I am impressed. The time, the detail, the investment, and the reserach and development into this "project" is overwhelming. Mercury Marine has far and away outdid itself this time. They are truly the industry leader.

FYI, I am talking about the website. www.mercuryverado.com

[Mwazzy]

Is this motor made in the States?
I got to admit,,,,,,that thing rocks

[Buddy]

X-pensive?

How much will it cost?

[Opti Flop]

I'm sure it run as well as the 2000 225 Opti's ran.. The only thing is they cost 3000.00 more.. And then look at all the EXTRAS you need just install and hook up... I for one will pass....

[JLDII]

They should, according to their marketing person, start at about 14,000 for the 200hp all the way up to 18,500 for the 275hp. Roughly 5-7% over the price of an Opti.

This is one hot machine. Very much like the 2.6L Pontiac Quad 4 engine years ago. Only its supercharged!

[Das Boot 3]

Amazing how the Merc bashers will jump on ANY post about Mercury products and howl their anguish and outrage about "Opticrap" and other words of wisdom. I would have to trust that Merc learned from the Opti growing pains and will have gone to great lengths to ensure a flawless grand introduction for project X. My last three boats in order have had Merc, Yamaha, and Evinrude motors. I have no axe to grind and would love to see the bashers move on.
I can only wish good luck to the boys in black and hope for a successful product launch.
DB3

[Be Fair]

Now let's be fair here, give the motor some actual production time before ripping it apart....

[Merc fan]

The new mercs come with throttle control,smartgauges,and all the steering controls. Its a complete package for the price nothing extra to buy. It is alittle more than the opti,

[NWBuck]

BoatShopper,

I've got no pros or cons to Mercs because I've never owned one, but your post was a real knee slapper :) Thanks for starting my morning off with a good laugh!

NWBuck

[MrEyes]

LOOK FOR THE BENEFITS!

I have a Black motor on the back of my rig right now. I have never had a problem with it. Sure most engine makers have had some problems here and there. Mercury with early Opti's, OMC with Ficht, Yamaha with their oil burning.....come on...GET OVER IT!!! If this project works it WILL MAKE all the engine companies produce better engines! Even if Project X does not work, don't you think the other engine makers are in the works as we speak to make a better engine? Let's think about how new innovations help all of us. If somebody was not looking to take the bar higher we would all be suffering! Please look at how this will help you....even if your a OMC, YAMAHA, HONDA, SUZ....WE ALL WIN!!!!!!!

Mark

[ericp45694]

635 pounds!! what are they smoking!

[Jerk Bait]

Agree Mr Eyes! People fail to look at the big picture of what this could do to the industry. They should be excited Mercury has stirred the pot and has probably raised the bar a bit. Merc fan or not, everyone should take great interest in this and hope this type of technology spreads across the industry with great success.

By the way, my family has ran Mercs for 20+ years without a hitch. Will always have black on the back!

[fishnutttttt]

I agree this is exciting news for the industry and if the motor does what they "say it will", it should have a dynamic effect on the industry. Don't forget other Motor companies are also introducing new products this year. Honda has their new 150, so does Yamaha, and Suzuki has also rolled out their 200+ HP 4-Stroke line. Its been an exciting time for the industry as a whole and only benefits us, the consumers.

It is cool to see technology in action but marketing is exactly that, marketing. A fancy website, a cool name, and a "un-veiling" show are all fine, but I am more interested in performance data, test results, hearing feedback from regular customers (no tourney pros or sponsored persons), and what will we be all saying in a year.

Was the OPTIMAX introduced this way?

[Wow]

VERy ADvantagous Owners group......this motor is for the rich guys!

[Anti-Merc]

I find it funny that on just about the same day Merc releases this motor they also go after Japanese motor makers for dumping! Another Merc scam to hike prices and justify what how they're pricing these things!

18,000 for a 275? I have a Dodge Dakota with a a 5.9L(between 250 and 275 HP) and the entire truck was $22,000.

[Jim Carroll]

Here's a Link to the unveiling of the Verado: http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/feb04/207215.asp

Check out the pic of who is in the front row taking notes. }( Jim Carroll NPAA #588

[Box]

:)

[bountyhunters]

MY OH MY just who can afford these ? motors [ all of them are out of site ]the regular fishin guy is being priced right of the lake . I"M far from rich ,but not poor , I :WILL NOT shell my grand kids collage money for a motor .

[Boatshopper]

How can you trust anything they do, for almost 10 years they have been producing a product that has inherent design issues which lead to obvious terminal problems. I would trust them if 4 years into the opti project they addressed the issue, but they didnt. They did however step up their advertising and marketing, I for one look at these pros I see on commercial extoling the virtues of optimax, and lose all respect for them and the products they represent. We all know the motors have problems and Mercury keeps forcing these guys to lie on national tv and print. Ya Right Trust Mercury.......Wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[John K]

Whoa...wait a minute! I'm really confused now. Just a few weeks ago, a lot of WC readers had Mercury all but dead, gone and buried because of the new E-Tec. I don't know what to believe anymore!!!
On the serious side, I'm anxious to see more of this new motor.

[fishhunter]

You guys must not be pricing anybody elses motors in the 250 class, I think my 250HPDI retails for 17,999 so we arent talking that much more. As for who going to buy them, the same people that are buying the 200-250hp motors now.

The one thing I noticed on the spec page was it takes 8.5qts of oil(seems like a lot for a 158ci motor), what does the 225 yamaha take.

[MrEyes]

Boatshopper,

I had an Early Opti that had problems, Mercury replaced the powerhead and extended my warranty. So I don't understand your comment about Mercury "I would trust them if 4 years into the opti project they addressed the issue, but they didn't." Well all I can say is they did address the problem, by replacing the powerheads and by also sending out new updates on the motors. If nobody was interested in new technology we would all be running down the lake on a Johnson Sea Horse!! Mercury is attempting to "RAISE THE BAR" and you can bet Yamaha, Honda, and OMC are ready to challenge! This is ALL....GOOD!!!

Anti-Merc,

Technology cost money..PERIOD! Last time I checked cars/trucks were not getting cheaper! Face it everything keeps getting more and more expensive.

Mark

[FlyInOnH20]

Glad to see you are a satisified Opti owner. Mine blew and all I got was a new powerhead with NO ADDITIONAL warranty. Was told by that great company (Merc) what more do you want from us! Stand behind your product! Duhhhhhhh...
Merc left a REAAAAAAL bad taste in my mouth!
Unless they give me one, you won't find one hooked to my boat.

[Brad Bahls]

Are any of the walleye pro's going to run one of these? I'd like to see one on the water. I'm not in the market for a new motor, but its always nice to learn...

[Mark Klossner]

>635 pounds!! what are they smoking!


eric- the answer is= THE COMPETITION'S ASSES!!!!!

[Mark Klossner]

Hello Mr Bahls.

Is this the former Dodgeland Trojan Brad Bahls? The answer to your question is yes, you can expect to see the Verado on the back of a quite a few pros this season.

[Brad Bahls]

Thanks for the info...

Yes, I am the one and only Mr. Brad Bahls, former Dodgeland Trojan, current resident of that section of the frozen tundra know as Oshkosh...

Would you be the gentleman that used to dispatch skunks on the back of cannery factory trucks with nothing but a pitch fork and a smile?

[Good Going Mercury]

It seems the bashers have had their say and the general theme from all of it is: My Opti blew up and Mercury replaced the power head but didn't give me any additional warranty. In all the cases that I'm familiar with, if the motor was under warranty, Mercury stepped up to the pump and fixed them. Gentlemen, I've had new Chevy's, Dodge's, Ford's, Yamaha's, Minn-Kota's, Honda's, and even 2 Opti's and all have had to have something fixed under warranty and not once was I given additional warranty. When the magic number of months or miles arrived, I was on my own. I knew that when I purchased the item, as I'm sure you did too. Mercury is not alone in that area.

As for you never trusting Mercury or ever buying one, well, the last time I looked I didn't see anyone holding a gun to your head demanding you do so. I'm sure all the Mercury personnel and the majority of the WC people here won't lose a moment's sleep tonight because you'll never buy one. For the rest of you knocking the new product before the paint even dries, I hope your 25 hp Nissan runs forever.

[Huskie]

650 lbs????? Makes the Honda and Yammies look like mere paperweights!

[MudflatsJack]

Looks like a Pro motor. The Pro's will be honest on it's performance.
$17,000.00 is Too much for me.

[Jim Carroll]

Remember- there is a full line of Verados planned from 275 HP down to 135 HP. Jim Carroll NPAA #588

[Shep]

Honda 200/225 - X-type: 272 kg/599 lbs.
Yamaha Weight* 200/225 :583 lb (265 kg)

Merc's weight includes the power steering. Add another 25-35 lbs for Hydraulic Steering on the Honda and Yamaha. Weight isn't an issue on the Merc, especially with the better performance.

Tight Lines All,

Shep

[CWG-1]

I can only judge Merc based on my experiance. Had one for 8 years, the last 3 years of ownership I spent several hunderd per year to keep it running. It was not trustworthy any more. Then I purchased a Yammie, 8 years later, one small repair. Take it to remote locations without any concerns.

I also wonder about Super Charging and engine life. Doesn't this raise the compression ratio way above that of a naturally asprated engine. Isn't there an inverse relationship between the compession of an engine and engine life?

I wish someone would test motors by hookng them up to a huge gas tank an d just let them run until they quite. Perhaps the manufacutures know the number of hour of service life by model, but one never finds that published.

This would help us sort out the work horses from the one "live fast, die young and leave good looking corpes" crowd.

And another thing, I wish manufactures would post the owners manual on the web so you could understand the break in and maintenance schedule.

[VeradoMan]

That's actually a great idea on posting owner's manuals on the web sites. We'll look into that.

Regarding supercharged engines and reliability/durability, let me help address your fears.

First of all, you could certainly make the argument that if you took an aftermarket supercharger and just bolted it onto an existing model, you could see reliability and durability issues. The reason for that is because the base powerplant was never designed for supercharging from day one.

The intent with Verado was always to supercharge the engine. That's the only way you're going to get back the holeshot, acceleration, and performance losses you've been seeing when switching from 2-Stroke to 4-Stroke. The difference with Verado is that the entire block, cylinder head, crankcase, pistons, crankshaft, connecting rods, and bearings have all been designed with a higher degree of reliability/durability by using the best materials, carefully building them up, and producing them on a factory line able to maintain the highest degree of tolerances and integrity. 25,000 hours + of testing confirm that this is one bulletproof piece. The midsection and gearcase are also brand new, and more robust.

Remember, supercharging, in concept is not new. It's roots date back to the 1860s where in a very remedial form it was used on an assembly line. Soon after the 1900s came around and cars were developed, superchargers were adapted for racing purposes. During WWII, the Spitfires and B-29 Bombers used superchargers. So did a lot of hydroplane boats. Today, some of the best cars/brands in the world use superchargers, such as the Mercedes SLK, Jaguar, and Mitsubishi. You would not find this technology used in such a wide-spread manner unless it was proven and reliable.

With respect to running an engine wide open throttle until it dies, there is a certain degree of running in that manner. But if that was the only test Mercury, or the competition for that matter, did, your engines would not be reliable and durable pieces. Testing is a very intricate and involved aspect of the development program, and in addition to WOT testing like you're suggesting, numerous different duty cycles, climate/atmospheric conditions, submersion, impact, altitude, multiple fuel grades, and a million more other variables come into play. On the outside, it sounds easy, but trust me on this one, there's a lot more to it.

Hope this helps to dispel some of your fears.

Have a great weekend.

[DuckCrusher]

Maybe you've not had the great experience of the opti pop first hand. Brother, it ain't fun.
They made their bed, now they get to lay in it. The put it to a lot of people. Their fall in JD power is just the tip of the iceburg.

>Amazing how the Merc bashers will jump on ANY post about
>Mercury products and howl their anguish and outrage about
>"Opticrap" and other words of wisdom. I would have to trust
>that Merc learned from the Opti growing pains and will have
>gone to great lengths to ensure a flawless grand introduction
>for project X. My last three boats in order have had Merc,
>Yamaha, and Evinrude motors. I have no axe to grind and would
>love to see the bashers move on.
>I can only wish good luck to the boys in black and hope for a
>successful product launch.
>DB3
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Good Going Mercury]

Isn't that a supercharger I see on the Cummins and Powerstroke diesels. Also some cars, I know I've had 2 Buicks with them and each went well over 100K when I traded them off without any supercharger problems. Like your idea of manual online.

[sceptical]

You said it all right there:

"Today, some of the best cars/brands in the world use superchargers, such as the Mercedes SLK, Jaguar, and Mitsubishi."...all foreign

[fishhunter]

Diesels have turbos not superchargers whole differant animal.

CWG-1, your saying because a 1980's model merc was giving you trouble after 8 years all mercs are unreliable, thats a pretty wild assumtion.

[enginedude]

I think Bravadoman, Boatshopper and Anti merc guy are on target. I don't beleve the r&d has been done yet and in true Merc form that is where the first cutomers come in. As for price and weight they are both way up there the price estimates I've seen on this site are on the low side. Power to weight ratio is always a key issue on an outboard engine. At the least Mercury is now able to read the writing on the wall unlike Bombardier. A 4 stroke platform is the future!. What motor do I buy? 225 3.0 EFI, 225 OPTIMAX, 225 MERC/YAMI 4 STROKE OR 225 VERADO. What a selection.

[enginedude]

Last time I checked every 10th car motor has'nt blown either. I'm all for new technology but the fishing public should not just take this and say well at least they fixed it. It should of never happened in the first place!.

[Workin]

We need to get to spring FAST! In as much as I enjoy WC, I don't know how much longer I can log on just to hear some people ####! If you have some negitive information that you can back up thats fine. But complaining just to down grade a product that may not be a favorite of yours or just to exercise your fingers is getting old.

[DuckCrusher]

I don't know about you, but the Sea Star on my transom doesn't weigh 35 lbs. It's a hyudraulic cylinder with lighter Thermoplastic hoses. The weight on the transom is the killer....especially in pad boats. PERIOD
I spent a few years racing and tuning bass boats. Fifty pounds on the stern will make a difference. even less weight will make a difference. How much does a company think you can put on a transom and not make a pig out of the boat....4 stroke kicker, 36volts of TM batteries, a crank battery, gas in the back half of the boat. If you don't think the weight matters, you are kidding your self, or on Mercs payroll.This motor is over 100lbs heavier than optimax....hydraulic steering or not. Verado is italian for PIG.

>Honda 200/225 - X-type: 272 kg/599 lbs.
>Yamaha Weight* 200/225 :583 lb (265 kg)
>
>Merc's weight includes the power steering. Add another 25-35
>lbs for Hydraulic Steering on the Honda and Yamaha. Weight
>isn't an issue on the Merc, especially with the better
>performance.
>
>Tight Lines All,
>
>Shep

[CWG-1]

Thanks for a very thoughtful answer. I would like to follow-up:

You mention that measuring engine life in hours based only on WOT use is not indicative of the real world life of any motor, I agree. However your marketing material is very focused on WOT performance and an owner should expect that the design is capable of extended WOT operation without comporomising the durability and dependability of this motor. Surely you do have and estimated useful life under normal conditions and use, can you share that with us?

My understanding of Super Charging in passanger cars is that it is only providing a boost during short term exceleration. Cruising RPM is much lower, this in my mind is a very different and application with accumulated stress being much less than high RPM marine applications. The comparison with aviation motors is far more applicable. My understanding of these motors is that inspections and rebuilds are required at very specific intervals, again, what is the useful life and when are rebuilds to be expected and at what cost?

Thank you

[CWG-1]

Fish Hunter,

I just to reread my message just get some context to your comments. It was 5 years before my Merc started having problem. I then experianced a crisis a year, break downs etc for 3 seasons. I was always hoping that each repair would be the last, then the other shoe dropped. Yes it was a 1985 model, and a very mature platform (Classic 50 HP)

As stated, this was my experiance with this motor. I did not say, nor do I believe that every Merc is like this. I did not say nor do I believe that every Yammaha is going to work well and be dependable (though my current motor has been). These are just my experiances with two motors by different manufactures.

Some more back ground; The cost of outboard motors can only be jusifed in terms of a 20 year investment in my mind. With an average seasonal usage of 100+ hours per year, I would like to know what motor has a proven record of 2000-2500 hour useful life.

The engineers know this stuff, they know what will break and when, how long the rings, valves, bearings and super charger will last. They know what should be adjusted, when, and how much it will cost to operate the machine over time. I just wish someone would tell us this stuff.

[ebijack]

"enginedude" where do you get 4 stroke as being THE future?
the main reason 2 strokes are not in vehicles since 1991 are that (at that time) manufactures could not make converters last more than 50,000 miles with that present technology...gov. regulations state your emission controls must last 100,000 miles. in 1991 2 strokes (built for vehicle applications) met 1996 vehicle emissions standards (using the technolgy of that time)with converters but they only would last 50,000 miles. right now the "new" e-tech's are running lower emissions than the comparable 4 strokes (some of the "dfi's" are running lower emissions than the compareable 4 strokes). 4 strokes tend to run "dirty" after 1200 hrs of use....(most folks never get the valve adjustments/checks required in their manuals). 2 equal HP motors on the very same hull(twin outboards) one being 4 stroke one being 2 stroke dfi...the 4 stroke could not plane the boat where the dfi motor did. superchargers have been on GM 3.8L engines for many many years....yes they have great throttle response and last many many miles..but they do also have worse MPG.....period. they also do not run wot for long periods of time. not saying merc's new motor can't/won't but lets get the facts straight. many reports have been written (they don't have the correction numbers to really take out any verables) where 2 stroke dfi's get better mileage/better throttle response then comparable HP 4 strokes on the very same boat. if you like 4 strokes GREAT.. buy them..if you like 2 strokes GREAT buy them. NO manufacter wants to put out a bad product, they hope their testing has covered what the "real world" is going to prove about their product...but when you put hundreds of thousands of units out there in the publics hands you get a multitude of situations that they can never really "test" for.
just for those that think the 4 strokes that don't "smell" your really breathing HC/CO2 and don't know it compared to when you had a 2 stroke and can smell the "unburnt" oil and know your breathing the HC/CO2/2 stroke oil. the emission standards for outboards are no where near the standards for vehicles for HC and CO2. you need a converter (and engine technology)to change that problem with present technology.
my backround is 34yrs working on motors/vehicles and 15yrs engine development/testing on dyno's/vehicles and still learning like everyone else as we go along.

[Stand by]

"Stand By Your Product"

For how long I wonder. If the motor blew in warranty, and they replaced the powerhead, where's the beef? No one, no motor company,no car company will replace parts for free forever. At least not that I am aware of. How did your motor blow? What went wrong? Did it happen again? Have you run another brand of motor with warranty problems so you can compare the two? I sit here with my mouth open reading some of these posts. What do some of you monkeys expect? Lifetime free parts and labor? How about if you blow the motor, they replace the whole wretched thing and give you your money back and pay you for the down time and give you a new motor right out of the box with each occurance? I bet some of you would have a problem with that too!

[duck]

I read your post 3 times, I still do not get it. You not only want a cheap and indestructable motor, but you want Mercury and the rst to alter the laws of physics and create a motor lighter than all the rest, yet fast, economical and EPA friendly? Why don't you just buy a BlackMax and be done with it? If you like re tuning and re jetting everytime the sun comes out of the clouds, run one of the lightest fastest motors out there, get a carbeurated V-6 and be happy. Motors are getting heavier due to all the things inside. Technology is advancing and with that so does the price. The manufacturer and the dealer do not make a boat load of money on any motor, margins are slim. They cannot make em lighter, or cheaper and still stay in business. I am sure there is some type of pulse modulation/magnetic drive out there that is light extremely efficient and costs pennies to operate, but unless you have 2.5 million dollars laying around to adapt theory to reality in a boat propulsion system, I say if you dont like the weight of a motor don't buy one. By the way, Mercs Hydrofoil racing boats, powered with the ultra heavy Optimax are and have been sweeping their divisions in powerboat racing for years. The weight doesnt seem to effect them. And if your motor has an extra 50 pounds in the rear. move 50 pounds of gear forward in the boat. It is that simple. And even the boat manufacturers are changing layout and weight distribution of their hulls to accomodate heavier motors. Your complaints hold no weight here. Try again.

[confused]

I dont know what to make of your post. Bombardier is also leading the way with 4 stroke and efficient 2 stroke motors. They are doing as well as anyone and have extremely reliable motors once again. How do you suppose to assume Merc has not done the R&D on the new motor? Can you back that up with even a shred of fact?

[rickn]

lets not forget the detroit diesel, they also ran/run blowers, with a good reputation!

[RyHines]

Nice looking Motor!

It does look like a pretty nice engine, and they did a nice job on the site. I love my Yamaha, but I do think the future will be 4 strokes when they get some of the power issues resolved(which this motor is trying to do), and they start getting the prices in the realm of reason.

If I was in the market I would consider this motor this year. I would have to check the price and decide whether it was worth it or not. I'd probably take a couple of rides in the boat to see what I thought of performance. I personally will accept a couple miles per hour less for a smooth running motor, and rock solid reliability.

HOWEVER, the most important thing Mercury would need to do is put one heck of an extended warranty on the motor. Mercury has a bad track record due to the Opti's. If they have a brain in their head's on this motor, and our trying to get their market share back they should put a minimum of a 5 to 6 year no holds barred warranty on these motors for the next couple of years that the consumer doesn't have to pay for.

Without the Warranty being great I wouldn't consider taking the risk of being the R and D consumer for Mercury.

I will say though that I hope this motor ends up being bulletproof for Mercury, runs great, doesn't break, and they get their reputation back.

I'll be in the market for a new motor, and boat in about 10 years, and I definitely don't buy on the low end of the motor spectrum's.

Ryan

[FlyInOnH20]

Wow>>> you must work for Mercury! That is their answer they gave me.
To set the record straight>>>
The motor was broke in per manual, always used OPTI oil, had less than 100 hours on it and still blew a rod right out the side of the casing. When purchased I had all updates preformed prior to delivery. What was I (the buyer) doing wrong? Using the product as it was designed to do>push my boat!
What more should Merc do.. give me a 1 year warranty on the powerhead they replace cause it was defective in the first place! It's not like they haven't had problems with blown powerheads in the Optimax since the introduction of the latest/greatest motor. I'm not asking them to warranty the darn thing till I sell it>just want some piece of mind that the new powerhead is going to preform like it SHOULD.
It is apparent that you haven't experienced any major issues with your equipment cause you would have a better understanding of what it feels like being taken to the cleaners. Just for the record>a
monkey I'm not! Maybe a concerned buyer who has a bad experience with Mercury and an OPTIMAX!
STAND BEHIND YOUR PRODUCT!!!!

[autodoc]

Turbo's and superchargers are not all that different and there are diesel moters with superchargers on them.

[DuckCrusher]

The weight is an issue. If you don't think so, that's your right. I've seen the characteristics of weight added to an area of a boat over and over, and if you would like to see data, BASS and WALLEYE Boats magazine did a test last year that shows exactly what can happen. Counter weighting, as you call for does nothing but fatten the entire rig and create othter problems, such as causing the boat to displace more water at rest and all speeds....which further dampens performance. You can spin this anyway you would like for Merc. I run merc and have liked some of their products over the years, but I don't wear rose colored glasses with them. If it sucks I say so....I'm not beholden to them.

When they came out with Lazer EFI.....I said it sucked and it did. They sucker punched some folks with those and they are stuck with junk. There are two boats in the Portage river area that have these motors that on dry docks. They haven't moved in 12 years. When merc efi became great, I was the first to say so....but still, why test the consumer and piss them off?

Same thing with DFI. They sucked. Yes they tried to make it right, but they still released a sorry motor to the public. Then the leaning up of the Optis. Great motors in 99, but 2000-thru who knows for certain, sucked. I was in two of them when they popped. Now merc testifies in the courts, in the farce of a dumping claim, that they were "having a learning curve"? Excuse me...this is the same company that said they ran the BASSMASTER CLASSICS without one failure. Now they claim, LEARNING CURVE?

The latest market surveys of customer satisfaction only back up that merc has been on the slippery slope. They've been well below "market average" in customer satisfaction for two strokes the last few years. Now we are supposed to bow to them for their NEW four strokes? And how dare anyone call them fat??? Is your name really Max...as in Black Max? What's your clock number in FondDu?

[Einstein]

If Mercury really wants to win back the boat buyers confidence they should show they will stand by this motor from the start. How about a warranty such as follows:

Five years parts and labor.

For every three months the motor is out of service due to a mechanical breakdown on a motor that was correctly broken in then they will refund 10% of the origional purchase price of the motor and the repaired motor will be returned to the customer with a full new motor warranty in effect.

Any motor that is out of service for a period of time greater than six months with covered repairs total while still in warranty and having been broken in correctly will be replaced with a new motor or the full purchase price will be refunded, whichever the consumer chooses.

In other words Mercury: Stand behind your product and make it very clear you are standing behind your product from day one. If the moneys that you have stated have been spent in insuring that this is indeed a motor that will be as reliable as you claim then you should have no problem doing this. If, on the other hand, you fear the possible problems that may occur with this motor then I am sure you will decline such a warranty. The company is on the line with this motor either way. Show your true support for it if you want people to trust your company again.

[JPK]

Is this what Evinrude is doing with the E-Tec? Remember, it's a new motor too.

[DuckCrusher]

Evinrude isn't down the list of satisfied customers. It's number one in two strokes....not well below the market average.





>Is this what Evinrude is doing with the E-Tec? Remember,
>it's a new motor too.

[FlyInOnH20]

That would interest me in "trying" another Mercury. The way it stands now>I'll never put another one on the back of my boat. Don't like being the test market for Mercury.
Your suggestion has merit but Mercury won't go there cause they risk going broke with warranty claims. If they did that with the OPTI>where would Merc be today???
Food for thought....

[CJHughes]

Who CARES about the weight of the motor if you still pass everyone to the next hotspot WHO CARES you are still going faster than anyone else . I really would like to hear from the guys running these motors this year. Stories how they pulled upto a guy in a Yammie 300 HPDI and smoked him out of the hole and ate him up in the top end . Man that would have to hurt your feelings ! Just my 2 cents now you engineer types can go back to slugging it out over BS no one really cares about . Maybe just maybe we will see a Ranger BATHTUB do 70 or 80 mph .

[DuckCrusher]

The facts are...until the production engines are out....Mercury is only making claims. I hope they make it with this.....I need them around to be able to make parts for my motor. Just don't expect me or anyone else who has been burnt by them to bow down and kiss their ring when they say "trust us". All you "team" types with buttered bread can preach all you want. Like they say in MO....show me. Right now, all you 've shown me are sound bites....and engine specs. So far...it's big and fat and looks pretty neat in pictures.

[fishn magchin]

you have no idea what you are talking about. I'll smoke your boat any day.

[doubleb]

Buick has had a supercharger for years in the regal, and park ave's

[doubleb]

ford harley davidson edition f-150

[CWG-1]

The 3.8L Supercharged found it's way into LaSabers and Bonnivilles also.
In these passenger cars they only added a boost during short periods of exceleration such as passing or entering a freeway. The rest of the time they were just along for the ride. These engines did have a normal service life of 150K under these conditions.

Marine motors have a much different life, constant pull and high RPM operation all the time. The supercharger will be adding boost most of the time. I would guess that the higher HP versions of this motor add the most boost. Perhaps they did design this motor from scratch with this in mind. If these motors are still around and running strong like older Buicks with over 150K, they will really have created something wonderful. Time will tell.

[ksauers]

at least the etechs come in hp's for average people

[Brad1]

Given the high weight figure for that motor, it would be possible in some cases to exceed transom weight limitations without exceeding HP rating. 635 lbs is not that much less weight than a 5.0 litre MerCruisr with Alpha 1 outdrive (about 250 lb difference). I'd probably go with an I/O before I'd consider hanging that much weight on a transom.

[eieio]

I suspect a lot of people will eat crow and change their tune when they have had a chance to experiance the Verado. I had a chance in Miami and can tell you that no other engine on the market today is even in the same league. When I visited the Mercury booth I had a hard time getting to see the Verado up close because I couldn't make my way through the sea of Japanese (I assume engineers)with digital video cameras. From Bass Boats to offshore boats the weight of the Verado didn't seem to matter in boat attitude as it sat at the dock or underway. The only impressions I came away with were positive - smooth, unbelievably quiet, faster acceleration than any marine engine period, awsome shifting, superior steering - basically the total package.

[Brad1]

Can't hang the new Verado on a Triumph transom.

[Bob Alberta]

Does the fact that this motor requires premium gas concern anyone? I don't know of any Lodges (at least those I have stayed at) that have premium gas. You would have to load up your boat and head to town for gas if you ran low while staying at a lodge. If you only made short trips I guess it wouldn't be a problem.

[Dos Dogs]

Fuel requirements are for REGULAR 87 OCTANE unleaded gasoline. I believe the 250 Opti requires the premium.

[JLDII]

The 200, 225,and 250 Verado all have 87 octane unleaded requirements, but the 275 requires Premium unleaded 92 octane minimum.

[VeradoMan]

Just to set everyone straight, the 200-225-250 are optimized to run on standard 87 octane fuel. You can run 92 if you want, but it will not change the performance, reliability, or durability.

We recommend running the 275 on 92 octane fuel to maximize horsepower and therefore performance. HOWEVER, you are NOT required to run 92. You may run 87 as well, and it will not reduce reliability or durability or void your warranty. If you do run 87, you will probably notice a slight loss in top speed, as the engine automatically senses fuel quality/grade and makes appropriate adjustments to preserve reliability and durability. Hole shot and acceleration will be unaffected.

Therefore, if you want the absolute best possible performance out of the 275, go with premium. If you are not concerned with that, or if you are in an area where premium is unavailable, no problem at all running 87.

Hope this helps to clarify

And guys . . . even if you don't feel Verado is for you, at least jump in a boat for a demo ride if you get the chance. You owe yourselves that much. Cheers!

[Merc. Question]

I know Mercury has had problems in the past with the opti. I was wondering have they ever commented publicly on this? I have never heard or seen any thing from them saying yes we know that these engines (or some of them) are bad. I would think that talking to there customers about it would be better than ignoring it. Just releasing a new engine and hoping that every body forgets about past problems doesn't seem to be the best way to go. Does any body know any thing about this? Just wondering.

[FlyBoy]

Here we go again. I wonder if, in 2020, when Mercury comes out with another new motor, people will still be wondering about the Optimax. I would think Mercury knows they had a problem considering all of the powerheads they replaced. I also doubt they are proud of the problems and made sure they aren't going to go through that again.

Can we forget about the Opti now?

-John

[dropshot]

The beauty of the free market is that your reputation follows you everywhere....but the company does have opportunity to right itself and make a great comeback. Look at John Rude, and Bombardier did with them. Who, in 1999, would have ever thought they would have the highest rated two strokes in the market's largest and most respected customer satisfaction survey? For 2003 they were number one. That's no small feat. Merc could come back too.

Sorry if the history of merc hurts someone's feelings, but obviously by their own testimony ("learning curve" after they bragged about their record on the Bassmaster Classic boats)in the Yamaha case, they used the market and guys' hard earned dollars for R and D. You really expect folks to just forget that? A man plunks down 12k for a motor, and later merc testifies..."we know we had a learning curve"? All this after they put ad after ad out about how they had zero failures on the Bassmasters? You think the free market is that stupid?

[Irwin]

Are you saying Merc did have problems at the Bass Masters Classic? How is it that no one on this site never talks about the Yamaha 250 HPDIs fouling plugs and failing powerheads; it's a fact that it frequently happens.

[Tom (mich)]

Fouling plugs - yes, but easily remedied with a quick and free upgrade, plus a free case of oil. The situation inconvenienced me for about a week.

Blown powerheads - not the case. I've not heard of a single one. If you know something different, share it here. And please no "I work with a guy whose brother's gardener's best friend had a blown 250 HPDI..."

[JLDII]

Yes Merc had problems with the Opti's, in 2000, but only in the large blocks. The rest of the Opti line was pretty darn trustworthy and is now expanding to include the 75, 90, and 115(125?). The problem was solved when they changed 2 things, the fuel bar which blended the fuel and oil before it went to the injectors, and one of the computer modules. The block design was fine.

I witnessed with my own eyes more then 1 Ficht go to the junk heap with blown heads. Heck, I saw one blow while the guy was running out to his first spot during take off at a tournament. The darn thing blew the cowling clear off and smoked like a webber grill that had just been lite, with flames and all.

Yamaha's have had their problems also, with both plugs fowling and some heads being replaced. But of course, nobody wants to talk about that.

This new motor from Merc is going to change the way we look at and evaluate motors from now on. Last week when that Verado was introduced, the rest of the outboard market fell at least 2 years behind in technology, and will be playing catch up for a loooonnnnngggg time!

[Otter]

As someone who bought the SmartCraft gauge option the first year it was available, I hope they tested this better before they released it.

[SLIPKNOT]

Any mention of gas milage????

[JLDII]

I heard, or read somewhere that this motor is supposed to get as good if not better mileage as the Opti's.

[fishhunter]

How is ANY motor company supposed to test these motors without using the public. Vehicle companies do the same thing, unitl they are out in the market you will not see the problems. I have NEVER SEEN ONE person come on this board and say, my opti blew up and I HAD TO PAY FOR IT. The only comments you hear are if their motor blew up they should recieve warrenty for life even though they have never had to pay to fix them.

Has anyone ever had to PAY for a new powerhead or were they all warrantied. I do know of guys who were out of warranty and merc still stood behind it.

[SLIPKNOT]

What if your opti blows up the day before a tournament? This happened to me, and i'd say it cost a bit of money, having to use a borrowed boat, and having to re-do everything the night before the tournament. So yes, I have had to pay for an opti blowing up. Time=Money, you lose time with a blown motor.

[WOW]

What if your truck tranny blows? Or your Evinrude, or Yamaha, or Suzuki? Or your kicker lift, had that happens too. How about what if your transom fails? Boat borttom fails? Rivets blow? Welds break? What if a VS breaks at the transom, and your motor ends up in the drink? ALL of the mentioned things happened to alot of folks.

Tell you what,if you feel so compelled to bash one fishing product or another, get out of the sport and take up golf. The clubs are cheaper, and don't have as many moving parts.

The new EPA requirements caused a major paradigm shift for the engine builders that caused an accellerated introduction of new products,ALL of which have had their moments. I was AT an event where SIX, yes 6, motors of a competitive brand blew, and there was no equivelent to Jay there to provide help.

You people forget yourselves. Mercury Marine has done as much or more to promote the sport of Walleye fishing directly and indirectly than ANY other company in the world. I am sure they truly appreciate the support indicated here on WC.

[johnp034]

Why didn't Merc spend the $100 million bucks on R&D for the Opti, instead of stiffing everyone that has one and jumping onto something new?
Also, don't compare a Detroit diesel or Cummins to an outboard, they rarely run over 2,000 rpm's, I'm sure this new X motor will only know WOT, especially with the Pro's being the prevelant users. We'll see how they hold up under some pretty severe use. By the way, what is the RPM range on this motor, anybody know?

[fishhunter]

5800-6400

[Irwin]

Who has been stiffed by Mercury? Anyone I've heard of who has had a problem with an Opti has had their engine fixed or replaced and many have had their warranties restarted.

As far as reliability is concerned, for the last year or so I would say that Opti has been better than any other DI engines especially considering the plug fouling and faliures Yamaha is experiecing on some of their HPDI models. As far as I'm concerned Mercury has owned up to the problems they had on 3.0L 2000 - 2001 Optis and took care of those that had problems.

Now, how is it a bad thing that Mercury simultaneusly got Opti back on track and developed an engine that will cause every other outboard engine manufacturer to improve. While it is obvious that you have a bone to pick with Mercury and you have a bias toward another brand, I can gaurantee you that once you run one (as I have at the Miami Boat Show) It will eat at your insides to admit that Mercury has built a 4-stroke that will do all the best things that both 2 strokes and 4 strokes have to offer.

[Burr ND]

I with you on your thoughts Irwin. I've pretty much kept to myself so the bashing doesn't get out of hand. It seems the 2002-2003 Opti's have been a reliable motor. The handful of owners I know have had 0 problems with the 02-03 Opti's. The postive comments on the 03's from the owners is extreme satisfaction.

[Fordman]

I have had 2 small block Opti's with no trouble whatsoever. Best starting-running motors i've ever owned. Anyone have info on fuel economy as to how it compares Verado versus Optimax of same h.p.?

[JLDII]

I was told by one of the marketing V.P.'s at Merc that this motor is supposed to have the same, if maybe not better mileage as the Opti's.