The BIG Question.
 

[b]O.K. Gang.

After reading the post about RCL amature experiences, I want to poke at the hornets nest just a little. And without airing my personal views on the subject, which might draw some unwanted flac, I'll state it this way. And I'm only fishing for honest viewpoints, while keeping the sympathetic or sarcastic answers to a minumum, If possibe.

Heres the Honest Question.

Is there any other Professional Sport, Contest, Vocation or any Big Money endevor, that simply takes the Support of Big Business, Sponsors or simply having the time and Entry fee money to be dubed a PRO?

Every single BIG MONEY professional sports event I can think of, (even the major BASS fishing events) takes many qualifying events, while slowly working your way up the latter to compete with the very best in that field. Why do you think the professional walleye fishing events have skipped this qualifying effort in most cases?

I can write a check and be qulified as a Pro in virtually every walleye contest scheduled this year. Is this right? Wouldn't the sport be better served if all the events were called amature, until the final events in each circuit, to indeed see who qualified to be called the best and Pro?....Fire at will.

RE: The BIG Question.
 

"I can write a check and be qulified as a Pro in virtually every walleye contest scheduled this year. Is this right?"

The answer to that one is no. Really only two tournaments call their anglers pro: the PWT and the RCL. In the RCL you have to not only have the money but the right boat. In the PWT you would have to qualify and if you have never fished a PWT as an amatuer you would probaly not be invited to fish as a pro unless you have a great resume and other recommendations.

But in a more general answer to your question, I think it is because this is such a young sport. Imagine what baseball, football, and basketball where like in the first few years that they were offered on a professional level. Heck if you were a decent player and could afford to do it, you were probably in. Over time, it got harder and harder to get in. I think we'll see that in pro walleye fishing (it's so in pro bass fishing now) and you'll have to work your way up the ranks. Consider events like the GNWC sortof like a farm team of the PWT as a loose comparison.

Another part of the equation is this. I had a nephew from Arizona who was a terrific baseball player and he was invited to a tryout with the Minnesota Twins but went away from the tryouts very disillusioned. He felt that it was more important who you knew than how you played and the thing was more of a shoulder rubbing than a test of skills. He felt it was not how good he was but who he brown-nosed that made much of the difference. This guy's not one taken to sour grapes so I think he's giving an accurate picture of it. Maybe the pro sports aren't really all that different than the way the pro fishing tournaments are run.

RE: The BIG Question.
 

There is something to be said about your question. I think there are exceptions to the norm of a "PRO" tour. The NBA has the most noticeable exeptions to the norm, La Broan James, and Kevin Garrnet. Those two both came straight from high school. For the most part you are correct in that ALL Pros have come from college, the minors, the canadian football leauge, and the truck and busch series in racing.

Ok I'll problably get blasted for this comment. Isn't fishing more luck than skill. I mean it takes skill to find the fish and the know how of different bodies of water and what should catch them. Just think about it, a six year old kid can catch a 10 lbs walleye, but can't play pro football. The first walleye I ever caught was a 7 pound walleye on a old school johnson rod and reel with a chumin minnow.

I don't know many of the pros on the tour only a few, but the ones that I do know have guided and still do quite a bit before they went "PRO" I would have to say that there guiding would be there minor leauge to the "PROS". But the guys who have never done that would be in the KG ranks. Maybe there is a better way to state that but I can't think of one. Good question Dan!!

RE: The BIG Question.
 

capt. dan,

You raise a very interesting question. While you may have oversimplified the qualification of having merely having enough time and money to become a pro a bit too much, you bring up some valid points.

I would like to consider myself pretty good (or at least in my younger days) at the sports of basketball, baseball and golf. Even on my best day I could not compete with Jordan, A-Rod, or Tiger. (I seriously doubt that anyone else on this board would fare very well against professionals in these sports, either.) I would also like to think myself a pretty good walleye angler. I doubt that I could outfish the "top names" on a daily basis, but I'm pretty sure that head-to-head they wouldn't "school" me every time.

I still believe that the "cream" rises to the top in almost all walleye tournaments, but there seems to be room for some "no-name" to beat the field with a couple of good days of fishing.

Why do I believe this? I guess it's because fishing skills and success aren't based on athletic abilities, but rather on knowledge, timing, preparation, equipment, and in some cases just plain 'ol "luck"!

I guess if I really want to find out how good I am (and if my theories are correct) I'll "put my money where my mouth is" ;)

Tim

Edit: I forgot a point I wanted to make.
How many walleye pros made $10 mil last year? Unless I missed something the answer is zero. How many ball players made that same amount? Quite a few and the number grows each year. The $$ in endorsments and TV are staggering and it all stems from the fact that people will pay lots of money to see athletes play at a level where they could only hope to be. I heard the other day that LeBron James took over the #1 spot in apparel sales. I guess it's really a form of hero worship. You don't see too many Keith K shirts being worn out there (not a slam on Keith). Although there is certainly some positive effect on tackle and boat sales, it's a drop in the bucket compared to major league sports.

All that said I still like to watch the PWT and RCL events on TV and imagine that I'm in the field!

Tim

RE: The BIG Question.
 

Saying fishing is more luck than skill is like saying Kevin Garnett is really lucky because it seems like a lot of time when he throws the ball at the basket it goes in.

RE: The BIG Question.
 

It's true that money can buy you many things in the fishing world. Winning the respect of your competitors is not something that can be purchased, only earned. The PWT does have guidelines for entry as a Pro. They are concerned about your previous competitive fishing finishes and last I heard you need another PWT Pro to help you get onboard. Can all of this be achieved with money? Sure, enter enough tourneys and your bound to get a good finish somewhere. Every dog has their day. The RCL's format differs, allowing any one that ones an RCL product and can put the money up to fish. The other Team Circuits are also a good spawning ground for the next generation of Pro's. With in the Team Circuits you'll find some dang good anglers and alot of competition, money may make a difference in these circuits but not to the extent that it affects the Pro/Am Circuits.
So to sum it up, it helps to have some form of finacial backing to be a Pro in any circuit, the more the better....
"Fishing is the pursuit of what is elusive but attainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope"

RE: The BIG Question.
 

[b]Man, you guys are sharp. And I knew this would stir the nest.

Weigh this question and hypothesis.. "Once a pro, always a Pro?" True or false? Let me explain where my basic feelings on this whole matter comes from better. When I got into one of the very first Manufacturer Walleye Council (MWC) Tournaments back in the mid-1980's, I considered myself just one of the hopeful entrants. Heck, nobody was considered or did consider themselves a pro, even a few of the other entrants that included Kieth Kavojic and Gary Parsons, both in that same tournament and both unknown names at the time. Heck, Kalkofen even intruduced them on stage as the two brother-in-law dentists from Wisconsin or wherever their from. It was 20+ years ago. I learned a mega-ton of stuff about walleye fishing since those early days. But does the monicur of veteran walleye pro still apply to me, because I was in one of the very first walleye tourneys?

I've been guiding and chartering for 20 years and only recently accepted the idea that I'm a professional guide and charter Captain. That's because I feel I've paid some dues in all those years and have seen it all pretty much. This may be the seed to my own mental hang-up on the subject of Pro, who knows?

RE: The BIG Question.
 

This is a great question, There are alot of "pros" that I wouldnt want near me, ( and Im sure there are more than a few that wouldnt want to be near me either ) And there are a whole more that fought and clawed and learned the hard way and have proved them selfs time and time again that I would be more than proud to fish with.
I think what a close freind used to say about competitive fishing years ago says it all "money doesnt make the pro, the pro learns how to make the money".



scooter

RE: The BIG Question.
 

We're a very young group and it takes time to develop. I think that you see this starting to happen with the RCL walleye leagues. They'll become the qualifying events used to supply the "Pro" ranks. I also predict that you'll see many of today’s "Pro's” having to go back and prove themselves at the "league" level after they slip in the rankings at the "Tour" level. Do a little research and you’ll find out that this same scenario developed at the B.A.S.S. level.

You need to look at the racing industry for comparisons also. I hate to say it but in some situations the racing industry can be a rich man’s sport and you can buy your way into it. Notice I didn’t say buy your way into success. At this time our industry and the racing industry has many similarities IMHO.

Dan, you indicate that you do not want to air your personal views on the subject. For the record, a person can read into this thread and others that you have posted and it’s not hard to figure out where you stand on this issue. That’s okay! You and I happen to have a difference of opinion on this issue. I think your major hang up is on the word Pro (Professional). There are different kinds of Pro’s out there in our industry. Charter Captains and Guides are a large part of this professional fraternity.

I hope that everyone reading this thread takes the time to separate themselves from the emotional issues associated with this question. Most people do not realize the 18 hour days associated with tournament fishing; the boat shows and fishing shows that must be attended and worked; the articles that should be written; the reports that should be sent out to sponsors; the appearances that should be made etc. etc. etc. To be a real Pro, there is a lot more to it than just showing up and fishing. Those in the Pro ranks may not have the athleticism of a Michael Jordon, but so what!

Last time I looked in the dictionary it said something like this:

A professional is someone who is engaged in an activity as a source of livelihood, performed by people receiving pay, one who has an assured competence in a particular field or activity.

That sounds like most professional fishermen and women that I know.

RE: The BIG Question.
 

I believe one of the reasons it is so simple to fish as a "PRO" is simply to fill entry. What I mean is this, someone who jigs breaklines on a lake in South Dakota is not likely to A; Want to go all the way to Leke Erie, and B; Is not likely to fare well. One thing I like about the format is it gives someone who has experience with a lake similar to that hosting a tournament a legitimate chance to fare well. I believe what we call the real pros "the big names" got their first real break while fishing a lake that suited their strengths. That being said, I agree that to stay at the top you must perform consistently and not be a one hit wonder.