Buy a Camp resort/Working a camp

[Obabikon]

If you're going to purchase a resort, the idea of not having a mortgage isn't very realistic. While it would be nice to be rich and not need one... that doesn't happen very often. Most of us who "take the plunge" into the resort business work with large payments. We have to work very hard to stay afloat the first few years. My suggestion would be, when getting your mortgage, try get enough to pay for the resort, and at least two years worth of payments. That also may not be possible, but it would be a huge help.


I've had a lot of these conversations in the past few years. How do you get into this business? Well, you decide you're going to do it, and dive in head first. Worst that can happen? You lose everything. Luckily, I was young, and didn't have much to lose. Now my wife and I have two kids... could I have made myself pull the trigger at this stage in my life? It would've been much more difficult.


Here's my suggestions if you're dead set on buying...


1st - if you can't afford the camp outright, don't buy one that needs a ton of money/work poured into it. It is cheaper, of course, to buy a resort that is run down. However, those resorts are usually also not very busy. Basically, it becomes twice as difficult to make it if you have to build the business AND spend a ton of money on renovations.

2nd - have an "emergency" fund. Don't leverage yourself to the gills. If something goes wrong (and it will) you don't want to be without a slush fund. There will be things that pop up that are very unexpected. Banks would be very hesitant to give a second mortgage, and rightfully so.

3rd - this quickly becomes a "lifestyle". It is like farming. You work non-stop, and when you're sleeping, you're still "on call". Every time you go out, you represent your resort. If you struggle to have a smile on your face at all moments in time, you may not want to do it. You never know when you'll talk to a potential customer, and you're always working. (trips to walmart, church, out to dinner with the family...) Always be prepared to promote yourself. Humility is a great asset, but courage to make a sale is greater.

4th - make as many friends within the business as you can. There are a lot of owners out there that have been around for a LONG time. The most successful ones... everyone loves. The business really isn't that big. The reason that is important is referrals. I've had several instances where "my guests" have needed to come at a time where I just can't fit them in. I have a handful of other resorts that I am willing to stake my reputation on. Those small "favors" are always returned in some way shape or form. But, there has to be mutual trust and appreciation.

5th - if you aren't an electrician.. learn. If you aren't a carpenter, become one. If you're bothered by septic, get over it. You have to do it all. Salesman, accountant, guide, public relations, electrician, carpenter, plummer, cook... and many many more jobs. It is very intimidating at first, you get used to it. But, especially in the beginning, you often can't afford to hire those things done.

6th - and lastly... If you don't like fishing, don't get in the business. If you can't live without fishing... DO NOT GET INTO THE BUSINESS. There's a fine line. You have to love it, and be willing to make it your life. However, you have to be able to watch other people enjoy it, and have passion about THEIR experience.



I'm not meaning to preach or sound uppity in any way. I was too young when my wife and I purchased the resort (25). This will be year nine, and a lot of my views have changed. It isn't at all like "working". You live your life on the resort. There's no clock to punch. You just do what needs to be done, and have a smile on your face while doing it. It is an amazing lifestyle. It isn't a get rich life, but it is a life full of riches.

[v-bay gord]

Obabikon has another great set of points that are "right on". I would add to the mix of all that has been said that you need to consider the role of your partner (in this I mean spouse) in all of this. Running a camp is full of work, and it seems that the women's role is at times the least glamorous. Make sure your spouse is committed to the idea. If you have some vague notion of yourself being on the water and sharing cocktails in the evening with guests...while your wife cleans cabins, cooks and does laundry....then slap yourself. Consider if your wife wants a career away from camp, then be prepared to work that into the mix. Other incomes when starting out can make a big difference......whether this is during the camp season or in the "off" season. There is a reason they say "happy wife, happy life".

[Fisherman Ted]

To add to that if you have a younger family they too need to be on board. I brought the whole clan up on several occasions before buying so they knew what it was all about. Kids may not be on board either. They too will need to work.

Again. Lifestyle.

[dkrusin]

I have soooo much respect for you camp owners. Was always my dream, my wife not so much. Getting too old now.

There is one thing I'd like to mention to the fisherman reading this post...Remember we are their guest and if you really want to do your resort owner a favor, leave your cabin like you found it. Pull the bedding, sweep the floor, take out the trash, do the dishes, wipe down the stove, clean out the cupboards, clean off the counter, clean out the frig wipe down the frig., clean the bathroom. We even leave a little tip on the table. There are nine guys in our group (1cabin) takes maybe 10 minutes before we leave. You treat your resort owner right, they'll treat you right. Guaranteed!

[v-bay gord]

Originally Posted by dkrusin

I have soooo much respect for you camp owners. Was always my dream, my wife not so much. Getting too old now.

There is one thing I'd like to mention to the fisherman reading this post...Remember we are their guest and if you really want to do your resort owner a favor, leave your cabin like you found it. Pull the bedding, sweep the floor, take out the trash, do the dishes, wipe down the stove, clean out the cupboards, clean off the counter, clean out the frig wipe down the frig., clean the bathroom. We even leave a little tip on the table. There are nine guys in our group (1cabin) takes maybe 10 minutes before we leave. You treat your resort owner right, they'll treat you right. Guaranteed!

Very true. There is something disheartening when the cleaning person mentions how much of a disaster a certain group may have left their cabin. The same group you have been bending over backwards for all week. No one expects a pristine cabin at the end of the week, but some evidence of an effort to tidy it up is certainly appreciated......and the majority do (thank you!)

[Manitou]

Originally Posted by skindzier

My current fantasy is to buy a smaller camp & turn it into a private compound with some other guys.

This is an idea that interests me as I am a property owner on LOTW.
I have a few lots for sale but am not actively listing.
I've always been interested in the idea of some type of "rod and gun club" that would be able to accommodate seasonal visitors.
The property is basically raw land with hydro and an old camp at one end, and I'm planning to put a travel trailer out there this winter/spring.
And develop as money and time permit.
As Americans do you not have to hire a guide or stay at a lodge to fish up here? What are the regs on that?
I wouldn't want to try to compete with existing services, just provide a spot for guys who want to be on their own.

[v-bay gord]

Check out this opportunity to manage a camp for this season. It's the second post down on this blog... https://www.facebook.com/gordon.pyzer?fref=nf

[Fisherman Ted]

Again, search for the thread with tons of critical pieces of information on how to buy one. But to add to Obabikon’s great points here are a couple more pieces of advice:

- In your first year or two you will need access to capital and quickly. Even if your resort is perfect (and to be honest, how do you really know it is?). As Obabikon said, things go wrong. All the time. And at a lodge you aren’t talking about your normal run of the mill items. When things break they are almost always very expensive and of a time sensitive nature. My dishwasher at home is what, $400. At the lodge it’s like 4 grand. Also keep in mind you potentially have a HUGE asset pool that can break as a nature of the business. Everything in the kitchen is of commercial quality (read expensive). But you have boats, docks, septic systems, water systems……


- Which leads me to Obabikon’s next point. Study up on everything from wiring to small engines, septic lines to water filters. Honestly, this part scared the heck out of me. But you know what. It shouldn’t. Once you get some hands on experience its not that tough and many items that seem complex (installing a septic field for example) aren’t. The internet is a great way to learn up on this stuff. I found that I could learn so much about things I never would have done at home. This has been a very rewarding piece of the business for me personally. It is kind of cool to know how to diagnose a water heater failure, drain and swap out elements in a matter of minutes. 10 years ago I couldn’t tell you where my heater was in my house….

I’m not going to drone on but two more things that may seem obvious but aren't.

- Network. You may think you are the best businessman in the world, and you just may be. But a smart businessman knows they don’t know everything. There is so much knowledge out there at your disposal. Use it. Join lodge owner organizations and go to their meetings. You will be blown away by their knowledge and more importantly their willingness to help teach and guide you. They have seen more than you ever will. Get to know them.

- And finally you have to like to fish but have to be able to live without it (credit to Obabikon). Think real hard about that. This caught me a little off-guard my first summer or two. Here I was with all this great fishing around me and I kept getting stuck….WORKING! That was a tough thing to swallow. Hearing guys tell stories of huge walleye, incredible hatches, fish jumping into the boat. Hey, this sucks I said to myself…….. But something interesting happened. Their stories and successes started to turn into my success. Their excitement was mine. And what it turned into is that I fed off of their happiness and wonder. It is exactly like Christmas for a parent. Watching your kids joy is far more rewarding than experiencing it yourself. This is why I got into this business. Every day is Christmas for me and I get to see my guests experience it first-hand. It is a business like few others.


-FT

[skindzier]

Originally Posted by Manitou

This is an idea that interests me as I am a property owner on LOTW.
As Americans do you not have to hire a guide or stay at a lodge to fish up here? What are the regs on that?
I wouldn't want to try to compete with existing services, just provide a spot for guys who want to be on their own.

My understanding is that non-residents can stay up to 6 months a year. There are no requirements for using local resources - you just have to have a valid non-resident fishing/hunting license and follow the regs associated with those. As long as the camp itself is not generating income, there shouldn't be any limitations on owning it & having multiple guys stay there. If you start charging guys you have an issue.

By all means, if anybody sees it differently, please chime in...