Fracking Regulation/Overregulation?

[CKM]

Originally Posted by rippshad

i think oil is being driven down (not sure how) to hurt russia.

Saudi is trying to put the hurt to the U.S. However, they risk breaking up opec if they try to run this out too long. Countries like Russia and Venezuela can't afford to do this for long. There is going to be some serious tension in opec over the next few months. US companies are in far better position to do this than most think. They are in better condition than several of the opec companies are. This could potentially break up opec. which would certainly not serve Saudi's best interest.

[Phil T]

The Saudi Arabia may be trying to prevent Russia from starting large scale fracking. Russia has more oil/gas shale deposits than anyone else. In the US, the biggest fields are in California.
As for flaming tap water, it was common in Wells county, ND where there were never oil wells. But, there were many artesian water wells, and no impermeable rock layer between the deep water and gas deposits. Every county in ND has commercial-sized deposits of NG.

[Custom Eyes]

Originally Posted by CKM

I didn't say fracing was for everywhere. that's why they have regulations and professionals that determine that. that's why they get the big bucks. to my knowledge there has never been a proven case that fracing caused gas in somebody's drinking water. there were a couple accusations but nothing was proven. In MT they frac as shallow as 1300' in some areas for gas. No issues with well water there. Like you said it depends on the formation and it's location to aquifers. And that's why it isn't done in some areas. Don't think for a minute there aren't regulations on that industry. Should there be more? possibly. I could take you for a drive around western ND and show you a lot more serious issues that need to be addressed than fracing. there are some things going on out here that would make the pope blush.

There's the catch 22 on the drinking water. You can't really prove it, yet. If they're going to frack, it's going to be on a formation, and that formation already has natural permeability. Probably lots of already existing cases of gas getting into water naturally. So, the Jones family, has never had a problem with their water for decades their family has lived on in X-place USA. Frackers come along and suddenly their well water is flammable. How do you prove it was them and not a natural occurrence? You can't really. How are you going to forensically prove something like that 1000' underground, and battle big oil pocket books and experts? One thing people are doing here now is getting regular water analysis and keeping records of the readings in case they need it if their water suddenly gets contaminated.

[CKM]

Originally Posted by Custom Eyes

There's the catch 22 on the drinking water. You can't really prove it, yet. If they're going to frack, it's going to be on a formation, and that formation already has natural permeability. Probably lots of already existing cases of gas getting into water naturally. So, the Jones family, has never had a problem with their water for decades their family has lived on in X-place USA. Frackers come along and suddenly their well water is flammable. How do you prove it was them and not a natural occurrence? You can't really. How are you going to forensically prove something like that 1000' underground, and battle big oil pocket books and experts? One thing people are doing here now is getting regular water analysis and keeping records of the readings in case they need it if their water suddenly gets contaminated.

that's what they're doing is analysis. and I think in some cases the gas in the formation wasn't the gas in the water. and of course they talked to the guy down the road who couldn't lie and told them it has been like that forever lol

[Shellback]

Originally Posted by FuzzzyIL

Fracking activity started in the Northeast - most of NY may be 'fracked out' by now - hence the pols move in unopposed to make themselves look good.

NY never allowed fracking. I used to live in Susquehanna county PA. That's where a lot of the horror stories started on fracking. While I lived there, probably in 2002, gas companies approached me about signing up. I had 40 acres and personally didn't want any part of it. I sold out and moved to S.E. PA. Never been back since. My insurance agent who still lives there and has about 600 acres, personally wishes fracking never started there. I know he signed up and is probably making a killing $ wise, but that has to mean something, when he say he wishes it never started. To each his own, but as far as I'm concerned the gas companies in PA are a bunch of *hores. They have a gas well blowing off now and can't get it stopped. It's not burning, just spewing gas. Our governor, just had his walking papers issued this last election. First PA incumbent governor to lose reelection. He was in bed with the gas companies, and they sent him packing. Maybe fracking is okay when regulated and watched over, but PA was clueless when they turned the drillers lose.

[Phil T]

I think another problem PA has is a law that requires the fracking waste water to be treated in a municipal sewage treatment facility. I worked energy waste water treatment for 25 years, and believe me, industrial waste doesn't belong in city treatment plants.

[Shellback]

Originally Posted by Phil T

I think another problem PA has is a law that requires the fracking waste water to be treated in a municipal sewage treatment facility. I worked energy waste water treatment for 25 years, and believe me, industrial waste doesn't belong in city treatment plants.

PA had no clue on fracking, and rather than study it and come up with some proper rules and regulations with agents in place, they dropped the ball and let it begin. Maybe it can be done safely, but I know for a fact rules are skirted here all the time. Rules and regs are only good if people follow them. We just had a case where 1000,s of gallon of fracking fluids were dumped in a stream. Contractor directed his drivers to dump the fluid in a stream rather than take it to be treated. Mo money for him! Just like the good cop, bad cop, scenario, you can have good drillers and bad drillers. Good waste haulers and bad waste haulers. Unfortunately when the water aquifer is destroyed, there ain't no fixing it. It's a big cash cow here in PA. The Game Comm, Fish Comm, and other land owning agencies are lining up to collect.

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by Phil T

I think another problem PA has is a law that requires the fracking waste water to be treated in a municipal sewage treatment facility. I worked energy waste water treatment for 25 years, and believe me, industrial waste doesn't belong in city treatment plants.

Maybe that's why they are hauling it to Ohio Actually some is being hauled to wells in my area maybe 150 from the closest PA wells.

I'm right on the western edge of this. Only 3 wells in my county, but go 40 miles and it's huge.

yea or nay - but a fire / gas leak at a well 50 miles away has been going on for over a week with several families evacuated.

[FuzzzyIL]

Originally Posted by CKM

I didn't say fracing was for everywhere. that's why they have regulations and professionals that determine that. that's why they get the big bucks. to my knowledge there has never been a proven case that fracing caused gas in somebody's drinking water. there were a couple accusations but nothing was proven. In MT they frac as shallow as 1300' in some areas for gas. No issues with well water there. Like you said it depends on the formation and it's location to aquifers. And that's why it isn't done in some areas. Don't think for a minute there aren't regulations on that industry. Should there be more? possibly. I could take you for a drive around western ND and show you a lot more serious issues that need to be addressed than fracing. there are some things going on out here that would make the pope blush.

CKM - what regulations? who professionals? cause it ain't the EPA my friend.
EPA has been told to turn around and look the other way since the onset.

[JayM5209]

Two questions re: fracking:

1.) Why have the producers/oil companies fought so hard for so many years to not have to reveal the total list of chemicals used in frac jobs?

2.) Why did the former president of Haliburton work into federal clean water regulations an exemption for oil producers so none of the fracking activity has to meet any federal clean water standards?