Which gun is better Cooper 30-06 or Sako 85 300 WSM

[lindstd]

I am in the process of buying a all around gun for whitetail, elk, moose etc. I really like the Copper but it does not come in the caliber that I was ideally looking for. Only a 270, 280 or 30-06. The Sako 85 comes in a 7 WSM and a 300 WSM. I am wondering if a 30-06 would be enough to shot very long range if ever needed? Or should I just buy the Sako 85 in a 300 WSM that I know will get to that range. I know the Copper's are a custom gun and are very accurate and the Sako's are now made on a production line from Beretta. I appreciate anyones knowledge of this subject. Thanks a lot.

[2Labs]

Originally Posted by lindstd

I am in the process of buying a all around gun for whitetail, elk, moose etc. I really like the Cooper but it does not come in the caliber that I was ideally looking for. Only a 270, 280 or 30-06. The Sako 85 comes in a 7 WSM and a 300 WSM. I am wondering if a 30-06 would be enough to shot very long range if ever needed? Or should I just buy the Sako 85 in a 300 WSM that I know will get to that range. I know the Copper's are a custom gun and are very accurate and the Sako's are now made on a production line from Beretta. I appreciate anyones knowledge of this subject. Thanks a lot.

I don't know either gun specifically. Can't help you with that.

BUT, I DO know the calibers. I followed the WSM's, the RUM's, the MM Mag's, etc. when the "short magnums" were being developed. They are functional, of good design, and will do the job.

BUT, I stuck with my .30-06 caliber for several reasons.
1.) You can get ammo for it anywhere.
2.) Factory loads include 150, 180, and 220 grain bullets. And, there are a ton of different bullet designs for it. Not that you would want to, but you can even get (or at least could get at one time -- I have 2 boxes purchased in 2000 if I recall correctly) 110 grain sabots for varmint shooting. I have always read that you can kill any game on the North American continent except the Brown Bear with the available off-the-shelf loads for the .30-06. My use has been for Black Bear, Mule Deer, and Whitetal Deer and I have never had a problem getting one-shot kills. The 180 grain has done well on elk and moose according to my friends and relatives who have used it on them ... I have not because I never had an interest in those hunts.
3.) It has killed a bunch of deer very efficiently for me from 20 yards to 225 yards.
4.) If you are using a modern bolt action .30-06 in good shape, you can hand-load it up to .300 Win Mag stats.

I always figured, why put up with the recoil of the Mags unless you specifically need it. And, if you DO need it, you can handload some rounds OR buy some from some of the specialty loading web sites.

There is an opposing philosophy. My brother-in-law shot the .300 Win Mag for a long time and took a lot of deer with it -- including long-range shooting on Western hunts. Then he "moved up" for his long-range Western hunting after several hunts because he figured that wasn't enough gun for his 250+ yard shots. He bought a Weatherby .338-.378 (.338 caliber bullet on a necked-down .378 caliber casing) with a recoil brake on the muzzle and put a big Swarovski scope on it. The rig cost him $1200 back in 2000 and would be a lot more now. A box of factory load 20 rounds at Gander cost $90 at the time and $120 now. He has taken mule deer at 400 yards with it (he tells me) and if I remember right, he tells me he has it sighted in for 250 yards and the drop at 400 is only a few inches (my memory may not be exactly right on the trajectory but I think it is pretty close). That is with a 220-grain .338 caliber bullet.

My point is, I guess it is all in what you want a gun to be able to do.

Me? I will stick with my .30-06. I sight it in 1-inch high at 100 yards and it is dead on at 200 (the typical gun mag table says 3-inches high at 100 is on at 200, but my bench work with several types of ammo shows that is not correct).

Hope this helps. Good luck with your choice.

30.06 165 grain spitzer boattail at 2800 fps mv - bc =.477 - sd .248 7.7 inch drop at 300 yards, with a 200 yard zero.


300 winchester mag 168 grain spitzer boattail at 3300 fps mv - bc = .471 - sd .248 5.3 inch drop at 300 yards with a 200 yard zero.

there is very little diff at 200 yard zero.

at 100 yard zero, the diff is just slightly more where you'd hafta hold 6 inches higher with the .06.

Still not worth buying that 300 magnum just to say you had one.

If you are going to take long shots, sight your rifle in properly, and practice long shots. Otherwise don't take em.

I own a .06 and a 8mm magnum. But you see these are for diff size and tougfhness of the intended game.

[Wormy]

I don't mean to sound like a jerk but if you are asking other people this question maybe you should reconsider taking "very long shots" at an animal.

There is nothing wrong with a good old 30/06 and it will take down anything in North America

A Sako is a nice rifle and a Cooper is a great rifle!

[Dodge1]

Originally Posted by lindstd

I am wondering if a 30-06 would be enough to shot very long range if ever needed? Or should I just buy the Sako 85 in a 300 WSM that I know will get to that range.

IMHO, the 30-06 is one of the finest all around cartridges ever made and that’s why so many rifle manufactures include it in their lineup.

FYI, "U.S. Marine sniper, Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hath****, took many of his shots at 700 yards with his Winchester Model 70 bolt action rifle chambered in .30-06 Springfield."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Hath****

[hgmeyer]

Originally Posted by Dodge1

IMHO, the 30-06 is one of the finest all around cartridges ever made and that’s why so many rifle manufactures include it in their lineup.

FYI, "U.S. Marine sniper, Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hath****, took many of his shots at 700 yards with his Winchester Model 70 bolt action rifle chambered in .30-06 Springfield."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Hath****

A great hunter in his own element... A hero among Marines and a man that won the Wimbledon match at Camp Perry (1000 yrds) ... What he (and his equally accurate shooting Marine (Ret.) son, Carlos Hatch**** III) were (and CIII is still) capable of doing with a rifle isn't a fair comparison to mere mortals. As CIII says; "it ain't work till it's 600 yards!"

That said, the .30-06 is capable of doing its job on all but the largest animals in North America (brown bear...where a .50 cal ain't enough gun in my book). However, I have learned over the years that "one gun" for "everything requires way too many compromises.

A lot of threads on various boards have run with the One-two-three gun battery... what would you do/own. The consensus choice at one is either a .30-06 or a .300 Win Mag... Two gets you a 6-7mm (.24-284) of some variety and a .32-.35 at the top. Three generally gets you a 6-65 (.24-260), a 7-7.65mm (.284-.300) and a .32-375) at the top. As you can see, even in those consensus ranges the spread and variety of individual calibers is "vast". But, always, in all of those threads a good showing is made by the .30-06. My point is, that buying a great rifle in .30-06 fitted with a great scope ( and I mean get a great, not good, scope) will fit into a one gun or a five (or more) gun battery and fill its role well. And, it does have the best choices avaialable for factory ammo. (They won't all shoot as well in your rifle...there is a big difference in the optimal twist rate for a .30 100gr and a .30 220gr, but they will shoot!)

[lindstd]

Is this a better option? I heard very good things about this gun. I know they had some Issues a few years ago but it appears everything is all good now. I am wondering if this gun is as accurate as a Sako. Some people are telling me yes then some are saying even better and some are saying the Sako is better. Any info would be very helpful. Thanks.

All you'll get are layer upon layer of stuff that finally makes you cry. Friends are important. But if you always do what your friends do, you will never reach your full potential of being you.


Kimber is the best there is. Not just - because. . . but BECAUSE !


On anything you want to buy, cars, rifles, or cereal boxes, read all you can about the product - knowing a certain amount of what is written can be hype. Check out the company history/reputation, and the manufacturing process, and the quality control, and the attention to detail, and how it looks, and whether or not they offer a custom shop, and the type of rifling used, and the customer satisfaction, and the inherent accuracy, and the, and the, and the. . . Then go to the dealer and ask him to measure - check out the head spacing while you stand there and watch. You are doing this for some grasp of closer tolerances.

Get all the meaningful categories lined up across the page by column, and then list the manufacturers down the page. It's a little work, but you can easily see what's what.


Do this, and "you" will know "you" made the best choice for "you".


I'll repeat something if I may - In the moment of truth, a rifle is only as good as the person that pulls the trigger. That statement has far reaching implications - way, way beyond - before and after the firearm. . . now that, my friends, is real long range shooting.

Quixote Lives ! Don’t shoot his horse from 500 yards away.

[Bassbuster]

Originally Posted by Ziert

All you'll get are layer upon layer of stuff that finally makes you cry. Friends are important. But if you always do what your friends do, you will never reach your full potential of being you.


Kimber is the best there is. Not just - because. . . but BECAUSE !


On anything you want to buy, cars, rifles, or cereal boxes, read all you can about the product - knowing a certain amount of what is written can be hype. Check out the company history/reputation, and the manufacturing process, and the quality control, and the attention to detail, and how it looks, and whether or not they offer a custom shop, and the type of rifling used, and the customer satisfaction, and the inherent accuracy, and the, and the, and the. . . Then go to the dealer and ask him to measure - check out the head spacing while you stand there and watch. You are doing this for some grasp of closer tolerances.

Get all the meaningful categories lined up across the page by column, and then list the manufacturers down the page. It's a little work, but you can easily see what's what.


Do this, and "you" will know "you" made the best choice for "you".


I'll repeat something if I may - In the moment of truth, a rifle is only as good as the person that pulls the trigger. That statement has far reaching implications - way, way beyond - before and after the firearm. . . now that, my friends, is real long range shooting.

Quixote Lives ! Don’t shoot his horse from 500 yards away.

Ziert:

Which Kimber do you like in 1911 for BOTH target and personal defense? In other words I don't have enough Kimber dollars to get one of each...

If I was to buy one and only one, I'd favor a little bit longer slide. This ones a 5 inch barrel.


http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols...cal_custom_II/