Can O' Worms

I just read Al Linders article "Opening A Can Of Worms" about teaming up during walleye tournaments, modern tech and rule breaking. Just for the record everyone I am a verteran of the PWT, FLW & MWC tournaments and I know first hand how difficult it is to maintain a good spirit while fishing against some of the best anglers on tour that are teamed up together. Also, I want to be clear that I am not critical of any circuit or it's rules; they are what they are. When an angler puts down the money to fish and enters they are acknowledging that they will play by the rules. I am in agreement that "the spirit of the rule" in many cases is a moral issue.

Polygraph tests are a good way to police high paying tournaments. Yet how many other pro sports need polygraph tests to verify results or a victory? I have never been in favor of rules that cannot be enforced, but the case exists today with modern technology, that many rules are exactly that, unenforceable. That is due in a large part to the very nature of of the sport. Almost every fishing tournament is played on a field so vast as to dwarf all other sports and for the most part the anglers in competition are not under any observation by any official. (our field moves & our ball is alive) These two factors alone are the most problematic for tournament directors and officials and the creation of tournament formats and rules.
To all those that have organized tournament formats and rules I want to say you have my sympathy. For after all the foresight and hindsight they have had it is absolutely amazing at how anglers can find their way around the grey areas of rules to gain any advantage possible. With so much "on the line" one cannot blame them either, as long as a rule is not addressing the action an angler takes how can this be wrong? Good question without any real answer.

So for the sake of "the can o' worms" allow me to suggest this: get rid of most of the rules, especially the ones pertaining to communication (vhf, blackberry etc) and observation, (cameras, telephoto lenses etc.) After all most of them are impossible to enforce, across the entire field. Keep the ones that pertain to law, USCG, Federal regulations, DNR regulations and local ordinances.
Perhaps the team concept is the right one after all. By this I do not mean 2 man teams verses "pro/co-ams". What I mean it could be time for sponsors to field their teams of boats of anglers, pro-am or otherwise? Why couldn't a team exist of multiple boats (3 or more) working together during the tournament or playing day, weighing in a grand aggregate at the end of the day?
Why couldn't everyday be a new game just as in other sports? Sponsors could choose their own team of anglers/players. Why would then a team want to share information with another team? That would be like one pro team coaching the other how to play the game. I don't think a team owner would appreciate that very much. With all the techno genius available today we can come up with a better way to conduct fishing competitions and one that is enforceable. Of course that would mean changing most of the ways tournaments have been conducted in the past.

This may well be the best time ever to recreate what exists today and it may in fact be the best catalyst to the future of competitive fishing, especially walleye tournament angling. Everyone has to agree on this one thing: an enforceable tournament is desirable for all; sponsors, directors and anglers alike. It can be done, in fact must be done.

and it is right on the money, but what's more interesting is the fact that many over this last year have said the exact same thing only to be denounced by many...I really would like to see if these same people have the gonads to denounce Al or if they will just prance around in tights acting as if they have been in agreement all along. Can't wait to see the silence or hypocrisy transpire on this one.

[stevefellegy]

We presented this very format/concept to the In-Fish regime and nobody ran with it. We had a " rookie draft" in the plan and "free agency" in the plan as well--for each winter to prolong the FANS season.

So--better late than never--I say go for it now!! BUT!! BUt!!! But!!! The players/anglers need to get paid by the team owners in real $$, at a level they can play the game/represent them, and not lose money--no matter how they finish. The teams need to be "employees" of the team owner in every form and fashion.

If one is gonna compare our game to other sports, then run our sport like any other successful sport! Better late than never....

[stevefellegy]

Originally Posted by Have you been sleeping

and it is right on the money, but what's more interesting is the fact that many over this last year have said the exact same thing only to be denounced by many...I really would like to see if these same people have the gonads to denounce Al or if they will just prance around in tights acting as if they have been in agreement all along. Can't wait to see the silence or hypocrisy transpire on this one.

thinking the SAME thoughts after reading this. LOL

[FreeByrd]

I read the "Can O'Worms" article earlier and agree with a lot of what Andy Kuffer posted above.

There was a LONG thread on another website last winter dealing with communication in tournaments and below is what I posted at the time.

I run the OPEN Fish Huron Ohio Tournaments on Lake Erie and before that ran some OPEN Tournaments for the Huron Booster Club. What I posted then and what is copied below are based on the focus of these type events - Granted the overall $$$ is a lot different than the FLW / AIM / MWC, etc... - BUT MAYBE MAKING THINGS LESS RESTRICTIVE is a good idea overall....???

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

My overall belief is that the fewer rules / regulations involved with most anything (fishing, life in general, etc.) the better.

Why have a rule you can't realistically enforce? All it does is penalize the honest people.

If you open things up to EVERYONE then it is an equal playing field as much as possible.

Could allowing open communication give some of the "teams" an advantage? Probably - although for the most part the guys that are on "teams" put in more time pre-fishing figuring things out so they are going to have an "advantage" either way.

Truthfully rather than "pretending" that "networking / teams" don't exist - why not openly admit what goes on? Maybe get some side bets going between the "teams" and have some fun with it.

I fished several of the FLW Wlleye Tour events on the Co Angler side and once on the "Pro" side, as well as two PWT events on the amatuer side. Those events had some kind of "no communication" rule in effect and in every event I saw some questionable actions - some subtle (like hand signals - or a signal to team members while driving back for another pass based on the position of rods / nets in rodholders, or down on the deck), and some blatant - pulling up to a team mates boat and talking back and forth which would seem to be a clear violation but the FLW rule at the time was no electronic communication - so talking between boats was explained as legal???

I've also had the opportunity to fish a few saltwater tournaments and follow them pretty regularly based on the boat lines we sell. Teams / Networking / Open Communication are a common practice there and are openly encouraged - not hidden.

The SKA (Southern Kingfish Association) www.fishska.com or the ASA (American Striper Association) www.fishasa.com or BIG TIME EVENTS like the WMO (White Marlin Open) www.whitemarlinopen.com or the Bisbee's Black & Blue Marlin tournaments www.bisbees.com are the events I follow or have been involved with.

These events all turn into HUGE EVENTS / PARTIES and are an absolute blast. The rules are pretty minimal and kept to things that can be enforced. Observers / Video are sometimes in play in these type of events. Not really practical for the typical walleye tournaments. These events have paydays in the six or seven figures - yep the payout in the WMO and Bisbees is sometimes over a MILLION $$.

In these events the teams are openly ackowledged. The boat manufacturers will often put up extra $$ for their teams, cover dockage and get all the boats docked together, throw team dinners / parties as part of the events, etc. Much like Ranger's successful marketting strategy of using tournaments to fuel their growth in the bass & walleye tournament world, companies like Contender, Fountain, Yellowfin do the same or more in the saltwater tournament world.

A lot of the money in some of these events comes from the options side bets / Calcutta bets. The FLW is trying something like this in the FLW tour this year I believe?

It is my OPINION that walleye tournament world MIGHT do better if they tried more to allign rules / formats, etc with what happens in the saltwater tournament world, rather than how things are done in the bass world. To me there seems to me more similarity to walleye and the salt water fishing than walleye to bass. At least this to me seems to be the case for Great Lakes open water events - maybe not so much more inland type events which could be more similar to bass fishing in terms of "spot on a spot" structure fishing rather than predominantly "open water trolling."

The FLW tried a couple year run at salt water fishing events and it was pretty much a failure and was disbanded. Did the overall economy probably have A LOT to do with that? I'm sure it did, but I believe it was more that the FLW tried to run the Kingfish and Redfish circuits more like bass events with very restrictive rules rather than like the other successful events. The Bisbees, WMO, ASA, SKA have continued to flourish during this same time period.

With the open communication that these events have - word gets out when a BIG fish is coming to the scales - the events are true EVENTS / SHOWS. Granted the size of the fish and the $$s involved has a lot to do with the excitement generated. There are sites like sportfisherman.com that have incredible online coverage of these events.

To me the less restrictive the rules, the funner the event. Even with open communication - YOU STILL HAVE TO CATCH THE FISH.

To me the important rules are:
1) Start / Stop times with takeoff / check-in procedures - and even here if it wasn't a safety concern I'd love to do a Shotgun start. The one fun event I've done the past couple years with a shotgun start is the Cleveland Yacht Club members tournament that is a blast. Watching video of the SKA / ASA / Bisbee's takeoffs is awesome.

2) Ohio & USCG fishing / boating regulations.

3) Establish a legal number of rods to run during the event - as a way of trying to equalize opportunity between the smaller boats and the bigger boats with more people.

I see no good reason to have more rules than this.

To me a phone is potentially just one more "tool" - like a trolling motor, digital fishfinder, RADAR (did ya know with a radar you can track other boats movements???), linecounter reel, nghtcrawler, gulp, pro-cure, 55+ MPH boat, etc, etc, etc. BOTTOM LINE TO DO WELL YOU STILL HAVE TO CATCH THE FISH.

All of this is just strictly my opinion and how I'll continue to run the two OPEN events Fish Huron Ohio is planning on running in 2010.

The biggest thing is no matter what the rules are in any event is if they are known in advance then you have the opportunity to either decide to fish or not and you can only hope that everyone else follows the rules and if there are violations that they are dealt with and not swept under the rug.

Steve Carlson

Where would one find Al Linder's article pertaining to this subject?

[FreeByrd]

Originally Posted by Question

Where would one find Al Linder's article pertaining to this subject?

https://www.walleyecentral.com/articles/?a=2518

is all one hears now? The brave souls that pounced upon anyone else that held this view and called them uneducated, washed up, or told them they bring nothing of value to the discussion are now unwilling to come to the spotlight and continue their hammering with Mr. Linder? Fellegy and many others are owed an apology that will never come...from a bunch of people who just magically lost a backbone.

Than you Mr. Linder for confirming what a large majority has felt for a very long time.

Thanks to Steve Carlson for running some fantastic open tournaments at Huron, Ohio. Thanks to Mr. Fellegy for your comments also. You know how long I have been saying these things.. Thanks to Al Linder for opening this can of worms...again. Walleye tournament fishing at a national level is still finding it's way, still growing up, if I can say it like that. BUT no one likes a grown up that acts like a child. I am sure we can do better than "Deadliest Catch" or "Swamp People" etc. Thanks to Mr. Golden and WC for allowing this type of media. Once again Scott I had a great time fishing @ the get together.

[Wettail]

I would support the concept of not having rules that cannot be enforced. When money is involved, unfortunately, there are always teams that will do almost anything to gain an edge. The fisherman who are placed at an unfair disadvantage in that situation are the ones who compete by the letter and spirit of the tournament rules. I would support many of the ideas that are presented in the above threads as a means to "level the playing field."