gun barrel question

[Esoxchaser]

My take on it, it's all about the swing. The further the center of mass is from your shoulder, the harder it is to accelerate, therefore longer guns are a disadvantage for fast moving targets where getting off a quick shot is a must, such as doves or hunting grouse cover. Longer barrels work well for waterfowl for a couple of reasons, one is that the longer barrel gives you a longer sight plane for longer shots. The best reason for the long barrel when waterfowling? It reaches out of the blind, and your muzzle blast won't deafen yourself and your blind partners while you are letting those magnums loose to chase down some dinner.

[Further North]

Originally Posted by Esoxchaser

My take on it, it's all about the swing. The further the center of mass is from your shoulder, the harder it is to accelerate, therefore longer guns are a disadvantage for fast moving targets where getting off a quick shot is a must, such as doves or hunting grouse cover. Longer barrels work well for waterfowl for a couple of reasons, one is that the longer barrel gives you a longer sight plane for longer shots. The best reason for the long barrel when waterfowling? It reaches out of the blind, and your muzzle blast won't deafen yourself and your blind partners while you are letting those magnums loose to chase down some dinner.

You've got a good start on it...let's toss another variable into the mix: Barrel weight...and while we're at it, weight distribution.

I've got a 6 lb SxS with 28" barrels, and another that's 8 lbs with 30" barrels...the barrels on the 6 lb gun weigh 1050 grams, the 8 lb gun's barrels weigh in at 1550 grams...about a 50% increase...that weight, and how it is distributed along the length of the barrels, effects how the gun swings.

Some guys like guns with a "weight forward", some with a weight to the rear (this is called "barrel light", and is difficult to control). Others, like myself, like a neutral handling gun, and in my case a "fast" gun (central weight). This is all handled with how that weight is distributed long the entire length of the gun, and gets off into a separate discussion about "moment of inertia", or MOA, which is what you touch on discussing how far the center of mass is from the shooter's shoulder.

Ruger made a really nice little 12 gauge SxS with 28" barrels that weighed in at 6 1/3 pounds, barrel weight was around 1100-1200 grams - right in the ball park with my 6 pound gun...but the weight distribution was set up so that the weight felt like it was out at the ends of the barrels and the stock, resulting in a "slow" gun relative to my 6 lb SxS...as much as I liked the Rugers (I had three of them over the course of a about 2 1/2 years)...I couldn't reliably hit anything with them because I was fighting the way they were designed. I have a friend who has a much smoother, more deliberate style of shooting and he's a crack shot with his Ruger...but my 6 lb gun drives him nuts...

When all is said and done, and if everything else is equal, longer barrels will smooth out your swing, and be harder to start and to stop, making them excellent for giving a "poke and pray" shooter like myself a much better chance of actually following through a target...the problem is that all things are seldom equal and the whole package need to be taken into consideration when deciding if a gun works for you or not. Most American shooters try to fit themselves to the gun, and that works most of the time. I've learned that for me it's best that I make the gun fit me...then I don't have to think...and screw things up.

How come nobody mentioned the sighting plane of a longer barrel will be more "on target" than the shorter one?

[Esoxchaser]

How come nobody mentioned the sighting plane of a longer barrel will be more "on target" than the shorter one?

Originally Posted by Esoxchaser

Longer barrels work well for waterfowl for a couple of reasons, one is that the longer barrel gives you a longer sight plane for longer shots.

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Originally Posted by Esoxchaser

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It's not just "longer shots". Centering on the target and then lead is improved at all distances. Also, double beads helps as well - one up front and one about 1/3 barrel length in back.

[Further North]

Guys...I gotta say that if you're seeing the barrels, or have time to line up beads, you're likely to stop the gun and miss behind a crossing bird.

Shotguns are meant to be pointed, not aimed. In a perfect world, your shotgun fits you very well and you slap the trigger as your cheek hits the stock and the gun shoots where you are looking.

Originally Posted by Further North

Guys...I gotta say that if you're seeing the barrels, or have time to line up beads, you're likely to stop the gun and miss behind a crossing bird.

Shotguns are meant to be pointed, not aimed. In a perfect world, your shotgun fits you very well and you slap the trigger as your cheek hits the stock and the gun shoots where you are looking.

You speak of automatic reflexes. Hand to eye coordination. You have it or you don't have it? Like my Mother use to say "Some got it and some don't got it". Those that don't have it can indeed improve by invention and practice. If they couldn't, the Internet, or other new technology of any kind wouldn't be an advantage in communications, or otherwise making average people above average - better than they were before. Barrel length, stock fit, overall balance, vent ribs, comped barrels, improved and consistent cambering by precision cone cutting, double beads, rifled barrels on other guns and on slug barrels, the shotgun shell and it's improvements over the years, etc., are common day technology. Even physical exercise to improve hand to eye coordination is technology. Use these things repeatedly and the process becomes an automatic reflex. Warning!: Having to rely on technology too heavily can be dangerous to survival.

[Pezman38]

Originally Posted by Further North

Guys...I gotta say that if you're seeing the barrels, or have time to line up beads, you're likely to stop the gun and miss behind a crossing bird.

Shotguns are meant to be pointed, not aimed. In a perfect world, your shotgun fits you very well and you slap the trigger as your cheek hits the stock and the gun shoots where you are looking.

I 100% agree further north.

Shotgun barrel length is just personnal preference. Most sporting clays guns don't come with a barrel shorter than 28". I mean true sporting clay guns, not a over under for anything that happens to be below 28".

The reason for this two fold IMO.
1. The extra length of the barrel provides more weight, which makes it harder to swing fast and allows for more control, your swing is more steady and easier to match the speed of the clay once you have determined the lead. Of course this is my opinion.
2. Increased sight plane. This doesn't make me more accurate... What it does is make me hesitate that split second to aquire the target.

Using a champion easyhit sight once I pull the trigger I do check to see where my bead is, I don't do this on purpose I just notice. And in doing so have been able to shoot high 80s on the sporting clay course.

I shoot a 26" SBE II for all my hunting needs, and used to use it for sporting clays. I switched to a 30" Supersport for my sporting clay shooting, (wedding gift from the wife). I am still getting used to this gun, but have noticed my crossing shots to be much improved due to the steady swing the longer barrel provides.

I would never hunt pheasant with the supersport, I would bang that long barrel on about everything, and pheasants fly faster and more erratic than a clay.

If I was to buy 1 gun for everything, I would have a 28" barrel you pick the brand.

[Further North]

Originally Posted by Noah Cantell

You speak of automatic reflexes. Hand to eye coordination. You have it or you don't have it? Like my Mother use to say "Some got it and some don't got it". Those that don't have it can indeed improve by invention and practice. If they couldn't, the Internet, or other new technology of any kind wouldn't be an advantage in communications, or otherwise making average people above average - better than they were before. Barrel length, stock fit, overall balance, vent ribs, comped barrels, improved and consistent cambering by precision cone cutting, double beads, rifled barrels on other guns and on slug barrels, the shotgun shell and it's improvements over the years, etc., are common day technology. Even physical exercise to improve hand to eye coordination is technology. Use these things repeatedly and the process becomes an automatic reflex. Warning!: Having to rely on technology too heavily can be dangerous to survival.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, Noah. As a life long shotgun shooter (i'm terrible with rifles), I've never seen anyone who's made the commitment to make sure their shotgun really fits them who does not improve their shooting right away.

You can do all the things you say, and you can shoot a shotgun like a rifle (aim it, rather than move-mount-shoot), but that was not he original intent of shotguns developed for upland bird hunting.

That doesn't make shooters who take the other path bad people, or bad shots or anything, it just makes them non-traditional shotgun shooters. I'm a "too each his own" kinda guy and certainly intend no criticism.

[Further North]

Originally Posted by cstalzer

I 100% agree further north.

Shotgun barrel length is just personnal preference. Most sporting clays guns don't come with a barrel shorter than 28". I mean true sporting clay guns, not a over under for anything that happens to be below 28".

The reason for this two fold IMO.
1. The extra length of the barrel provides more weight, which makes it harder to swing fast and allows for more control, your swing is more steady and easier to match the speed of the clay once you have determined the lead. Of course this is my opinion.
2. Increased sight plane. This doesn't make me more accurate... What it does is make me hesitate that split second to aquire the target.

Using a champion easyhit sight once I pull the trigger I do check to see where my bead is, I don't do this on purpose I just notice. And in doing so have been able to shoot high 80s on the sporting clay course.

I shoot a 26" SBE II for all my hunting needs, and used to use it for sporting clays. I switched to a 30" Supersport for my sporting clay shooting, (wedding gift from the wife). I am still getting used to this gun, but have noticed my crossing shots to be much improved due to the steady swing the longer barrel provides.

I would never hunt pheasant with the supersport, I would bang that long barrel on about everything, and pheasants fly faster and more erratic than a clay.

If I was to buy 1 gun for everything, I would have a 28" barrel you pick the brand.

You've got it nailed down very well - I do almost all my bird hunting with a 6 pound 16 gauge SxS with 28" barrels, a straight (English) stock and double triggers. It is a light, very fast, quick handling gun with grouse and woodcock hunting, early season pheasant and carrying all day in mind.

I shoot clays (and late season pheasants) with an 8 pound 12 gauge SxS with 30" a very relaxed pistol grip (a three-quarter or Prince of Wales grip) and a single trigger. This gun is heavier for recoil and to smooth out the "yips" in my swing, and has long barrels to help with the swing also. She's still a "fast" gun, even at 8 lbs. because that's what I shoot best, but that's just a personal preference.

I learned a long time ago that when all I had was a hammer, everything looks like a nail...when I have specific tools for specific tasks, those tasks get a lot easier and I became a lot more proficient.