SCII graphite

ColumbiaR
12-05-2010, 09:49 PM
What is this compatible to in common terms? IM7, 8, or 9? Or is this not a good way to compare rods?

bfish
12-05-2010, 10:01 PM
....Or is this not a good way to compare rods?:exactly:

I Walleye
12-06-2010, 04:12 AM
There is no "IM" standard so one guys IM7 can be another guys IM9.

crappieman
12-06-2010, 07:29 AM
As the others have stated, there is no standard in the industry. Check out St Croix's web site and I believe they define the modulus in numbers, ie; 33 million vs 65 million. Most other rod manufactures also have this info on their websites. Then you need to know there are different scrim factors involved. Generally speaking the lower modulus rods are "tougher" but not always the case. If you are ever in the area, take a tour of the St Croix factory, you will not be disappointed. Being a custom rod builder I try to give customers a quick lesson on modulus ratings so they can understand which rod blank fits their application the best. Of course the other factor is price point which in these times is huge to most avereage fishermen. ALL the St Croix blanks are of excellent quality no matter which you choose. There are some other companies out there producing some nice blanks and the offshore produced blanks can be of good quality also as they are making great strides in this area. You will find in my estimation that a good offshore made blank will be in the same price point range as the American made blanks. Keep in mind also that rod blanks are produced by companies for other branded names as well, kinda like tires, batteeries and other things. They are built for cusomers to their specs. Other rod builders on here can weigh in with some good advice too. Bear in mind what I'm talking about here generally holds true to the non custom made rods that are sold off the shelf in retail stores. When it comes to higher end retail rods most of my customers are surprised to find that a custom rod can be built better and to their specs for similar money keeping in mind that the more bling or thread art work is where the cost starts rising quickly. If you're considering the SC11 retail rod, depending on your application, you won't be disappointed it is a good rod.

ColumbiaR
12-06-2010, 11:54 AM
Thanks for the great info.

I guess what confuses me is each retail seller has it's own lingo and this is generally not comparible to other manufactures' lingo.

For example, there are two rods at the $100 price point that I am considering. one is the Walleye Angler HM-85 and another is the Eyecon SCII. Who has the better rod for a given application? Who's graphite is more senstive? Comparing in the store side by side doesn't always give a good representation of how the rod will perform when actually fishing either. Is it really just a guess in the end?

crappieman
12-06-2010, 01:48 PM
It appears that the HM-85 is a high modulus designation. The Eyecon is a mid modulus designated rod. Without having the actual modulus ratings ie; 33 milion, 65 million, 85 million or so on and so forth it is hard to say. My best guess is that the HM-85 would be the higher modulus rod which means it should be lighter which could translate to more sensitivity. however scrim used is also a factor. The HM-85 uses Fuji guides where the eyecon uses Batson guides. Depending on which model guides are used one could be lighter than the others although Fuji has long been the standard by which guides are measured. Grades of handle material could also be a factor in sensitivity. The Eyecon comes with a five year warranty, don't know about the HM-85. By all rights the HM-85 should and I say that carefully be the lighter more sensitive rod. There are just so many factors that go into a rod to say one outshines the other. Get them both in your hand and put the reel and line on that you will be using, give em both a little isle or parking lot workout and go from there. If you would like to get a better feel for what actually makes a good rod go to some rod building sites and take a look at what goes in to it. If you ever get to Park Falls Wisconson take a tour of the St Croix factory, you will learn a lot. Out in your neck of the woods you could tour the Batson factory, Lamiglas is out west and I believe Gary Loomis's new Rod Company is out your way. Lots to see and learn about rods. You are on the right track by asking questions. Good luck in your choice.

feathercast
12-06-2010, 09:22 PM
The resin used in the blank is also a factor in rod sensitivity. DEEP subject here.

ColumbiaR
12-06-2010, 10:36 PM
So what would you all compare the SCII rods that is out there? What Loomis model, what Cabelas model, Bass Pro model, etc?

bfish
12-07-2010, 08:23 AM
So what would you all compare the SCII rods that is out there? What Loomis model, what Cabelas model, Bass Pro model, etc?

You can't really compare. SCII is StCroix proprietary name that describes their graphite. We do not know the high and low range of that designation and even if we did we do not know the volume of the graphite. One speck/thread of high modulus graphite and the rod automatically becomes a high IM/SC/ whatever marketing term is in vogue.

Besides the type of graphite has very little to do with how the rod works. Taper, wall diameter, resin etc plays an equal or larger role. I much rather have a high performance designed rod made with "low" modulus IM-6, than a run of the mill IM-9 "high" modulus. Heck for some application the very old fiberglass still rules supreme.

Get yourself to a rod shop and shake a few different brands.

crappieman
12-07-2010, 09:04 AM
Maybe we can help you another way. What is your intended use for the rod? What is the length you prefer? What type of handle do you prefer ie; cork, carbon fiber, or other material, tennessee or traditional locking for style or type? What is the top end of your price point? Which retail outlets are closest to you?

Not avoiding you previous questions but you really cannot compare them that way, so hopefully we can steer you to the right rod this way.

slipperybob
12-11-2010, 02:23 AM
So what would you all compare the SCII rods that is out there? What Loomis model, what Cabelas model, Bass Pro model, etc?

When I look at similar rods to compare, I would compare the SCII rods with some of G.Loomis GL2, Cabelas Fish Eagle II, Shimano Compre, etc.,...After all it's also a price point consideration. That's a general basis for me. It always works out better when you are comparing strictly in one single manufacture, so you end up seeing and feeling the difference between each line up.

ColumbiaR
12-13-2010, 09:29 PM
After some thought, I guess this is what I'm really getting at. If one picks a price range, there are multple offerrings that meet that price range. Let's pick $100 as an example and let's use BPS rods vs St. Croix in the same example. At the chosen price point, am I getting a more sensitive rod going BBS but with less over all quality meaning it won't last as long? And with the Croix, am I getting a better built rod that will last longer in exchange for less sensitivity at a given price point? I think this is the real question. Or, all things being considered, are both rods probably going to have equal sensitivity and equal craftsmanship? I can't see how one could have both at the same price point.

crappieman
12-13-2010, 10:25 PM
The answers you seek cannot be given with any degree of certainty or absoluteness. I know from personal experience that St Croix builds one of the finest blanks in the world in their SCII series and the same for all the next higher modulus blanks they build. I cannot speak to the other lines they have as I have not built them nor fished with them. Where quality comes into the equation are the quality control steps and the engineering of blanks or put another way the materials used to make the St Croix blanks. Are they the only company that does this, probably not. St Croix to my knowledge makes blanks for others. The blanks they make for others are NOT the same blanks sold under the St Croix brand. They are built for others to the others specifacations in material which COULD be better or worse than the St Croix brand. That could be reflected in the cost of the final rod but more than likely not. Some things to look for but is not all inclusive or absolute are the number, type, and brand of guides used. Same with the reel seats if not a Tennessee style handle. Look at the finish on the guides, if they look like footballs then they have just added unnessecary weight to the rod which could effect sensitivity. Of course you can't take the rod apart but you would be amazed at the amount of glue, tape and twine that I have found under cork and reel seats. This all adds weight. As a general rule the lighter rod will be more sensitive but not always. Wall thickness of the blanks comes into play also for weight and action and power. It would be a little easier to compare if one had the specs on the BPS rod but that information is not readily available. In closing I would say that if I bought an off the shelf rod and both rods were of the same price point I would go with the St Croix as I know pretty sure of what kind of product I have because I build on them and use them. Are they the only blanks I use, absolutely not. Their are many fine blanks out there, I just happen to think St Croix is at the top of the game depending on the application or technique I need.

REW
12-16-2010, 08:59 AM
Columbia,
When you go shopping bring a scale along with you.
Generally speaking, (but not always) the lighter the rod, the better it will be.

But, there are exceptions.

REW

slipperybob
12-19-2010, 09:59 PM
Bring 12-15 feet of line to just thread through the line guides and check rod flex for feel. :grin: