can you refill sm propane cylinders?

I understand that they sell (sold?) a kit to allow you to refill small propane cylinders. Can you still do this with the newer safty propane tanks?

Opps , found what I was seeking under Propane in the archives,..what an encyclopedia here!

According to federal law, it has always been ILLEGAL to refill the disposable cylinders.
The reason that it is illegal, is that after refilling, it is impossible to guarentee against leakage, due to the nature of their relief valves.

It is - hovever legal - to refill 1 lb refillable bottles.
The 1 lb refillable bottles that cost about $30 each, have the correct valves, and bottle material to insure the users safety during refilling and reuse.

Don't -- EVER -- in the interest of saving a few bucks - refill the disposable cylinders.
Doing so - is a death wish.

Sure lots of folks have refilled many of them - many times - with no problem. But doing so, is like stepping in front of a speeding train, and always being able to get off the track, before it hits you. One day, you won't be able to get off the track, so to speak, and you will end up injured or dead. Is it worth it??

Take care
REW

Actually, this is the law on the refillable cylinder issue. I researched this a while back.


"The NOT REFILLABLE designation is to state that they may not be refilled
commercially. If they were not to be refilled by the user, products to
refill them would be illegal, and you could not buy them from major
companies.
(Cabela's, NorthernTools, Walmart, Grainger, et al.)
I believe that if there was any danger especially in our sue happy
society, they would drop them like a bad habit, but on the contrary,
they have sold them for years.

What it really means is that if you refill a disposable cylinder AND
you transport it on federally funded roads (read: all roads) AND you
get caught, you are subject to up to a $10,000 fine and 5 years in
Camp Fed.

There is part logic and part politics to this DOT rule. The
politics are, the disposable cylinder manufacturers don't want the
competition. Go research the federal register oh, about 40 years ago
if you don't believe me.

The logic part is that these cylinders do not have the safety margin
to withstand much internal rust. The propane put in the cylinders
at the factory is dry. The propane you buy in your grill tank
usually is not. In fact, fuel grade propane is usually nearly
saturated with moisture. If your refilled disposable cylinder rusts
from the inside out, where you can't see it, you might be in for a
surprise."

I have been filling these for several years now but to be honest after reading REW's post I am done. Really not worth at all. Thanks REW! Good analogy!

Nope... only if has a OPD (over-fill protection device) installed. The regs were changed last March to take effect for April.

This is irregardless of size. The OPD must be installed to be legal. Co. I worked for had filler tanks, we were bound by regs. to dissuade anyone from filling any size tank w/o this device on it.

I thought we were talking about filling a small, disposable cylinder like you use on a propane torch with a larger refillable tank using one of those adapters available at Cabelas, etc.

Not filling a refillable tank thats not equpped with a OPD valve.

If not, my apologies.

No no no... my apologies if I have taken this out of context. Didn't know you could refill torch cannisters, have not seen these at Cabelas. More info please. Tired of buying new cannisters.

In my opinion, they are an accident looking for a place to happen.

Picture once an incendiary grenade exploding in a vehicle, or a fish house. That is what you can expect if one leaks, and is ignited.

Often the disposable #1 cylinders get overfilled. The valve is not made to handle the pressure of the extra gas expanding in a warming vehicle or fish house.

A leak ensues, now add an ignition source, and BOOM.

Many states have laws that ban transport of refilled #1 cylinders in a vehicle because of this danger.

Ed "Backwater Eddy" Carlson

(Vege-tar-ian), An old Indian word for "Bad Hunter".

:D

><,sUMo,>

I recommend a #5 fat-boy tank with a OPD.

Less trips to refill, higher safety, more environmentally friendly, and more convince for the user. They fit nicely in a 5gal pail or strap under the seat in a portable fish house.

Another big factor I see is all them empty cylinders disposed of on the ice, and floating on the lake come spring. Last season at ice out we picked up 65 #1 cylinders tossed out on the ice in one area of a popular crappie lake alone. :(

Ever hit one with a prop anyone? For no other reason then the trash factor, I am dam sick of them #1 disposable cylinders!

Ed "Backwater Eddy" Carlson

(Vege-tar-ian), An old Indian word for "Bad Hunter".

With all this good info on the disposable cannisters I have a related question. I was sick of installing a new 1 LB cannister in the middle of the night so I just recently purchased the adapter hose to operate a Mr. Buddy heater from a 20 LB. propane tank. Does anyone else do this and have any tips or advice? I use the heater inside my tent when fall camping and plan to have the propane tank outside the tent with the hose running in through the door. Yes, I do vent adequately and also run a separate CO detector alarm for peace of mind.

I remember many years back when I purchased the equipment(filler adapter) to refill disposables. I sometime later read the dangers of doing this and the hassle about refridgerating/keeping the disposable tank cold before filling it. After I did the research on how dangerous this can be I still have the adapter but in brand new, never used condition!! Keep it safe and use your head.

This is the refill adapter-

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jhtml?id=0013259512325a&navAction=push&navCount=1&indexId=&podId=0013259&catalogCode=QP&parentId=&parentType=&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fitem-link.jhtml_A&_DAV=search&hasJS=true

You must use this with caution. Never overfill the tanks or store them indoors or in an enclosed vehicle. The fill and relief valves on the cannisters can leak, expecially when they are left in the sun and the gas expands inside. I only use the cannisters for a few refills, then they get thrown out. Its not for everybody, but I have been using this method for a long time and never had any problems.

As far as Eddy's comments about them, yes, thats true. But its not the cannisters fault. Its the idiots who leave garbage on the ice. The same guys leave all kinds of crap out there, not just the cannisters.

Perchjerker,
May the force be with you!!!

This is the same thing that my brother said, as he crawled under his truck that had been jacked up without proper jackstands.
He said: "I will only be there for a second.
Unfortunately, in that second, the jack collapsed, and it lead to his death"

It hurts me to the quick, when I see and hear of folks who "know better", "who only do it for a ""Few times"", who only do it for a "second" -- and who pay for it with injury or thier life.

WHY???

Refillable cylinders are readily available - made of the appropriate materials, with the correct relief valves. Is your health and life worth the $35 - that it costs to buy a refillable 1 lb, 5lb or 10 lb bottle.

May the force be with you!! and may you continue to prosper.

take care
REW

I have a "mr. buddy" heater the ole' lady got me for my hunting excursions, wouldn't trade it for anything. Also use it w/ the 20# tanks. Trick to not suffucating is to have a lot of fresh air to circulate w/ the heated air. Problem is w/ propane is that in enclosed areas it burns the oxygen in the air & replaces it w/ CO2 essentially creating a vacuum. Also take it ice-fishing; put it in the shanty, vent the roof, close the door... toasty. The great part is w/ using the 20# tanks is that they set the burner 1 1/2' above the surface of the ice convecting the heat throughout the shanty, not allowing the ice beneath it to melt. Better part is; w/ the burner on low (depending on the size area to heated) I can run off a full tank for 3 days. I believe the cost is around $20 for the burner & another $8 to fill my tank. Less than $30 to stay warm??... WELL worth the money.

Rog-

I am very sorry to hear about your brother.

I never said "I knew better", just relating experiences and trying to answer the question regarding the refillable cannisters.

Looking for the refillables around here,..seems like no one knows much about them,.,..any recommendations where to find them? will those refill hardware for the others work on them or is it something special you have to get to fill them? I'm going to try a Hot Vent tent heater by Zodi,..uses outside air for combustion,..you have to drive it (fan -tube) with a small 12 v bat for the fan,. but it recirculates the shack air to the heat exchanger,..still not sure of the 10,000 BTU claim for the single model.but I like not breathing in the fumes from ANY unvented heater AND all the moisture it makes,...I think I'm going to have to jury rig a container to put this into to avoid flame outs and the wind from robbing a lot of BTU's from the heat exchanger.

Soap test the connections when making them. If you are connecting/disconnecting much the O-rings wear out pretty quick (if your setup uses O-rings). I run a whole camp using a 20lb bottle and hoses.

Oh, which might suggest getting extra O-rings to keep on hand.

John

Soap test the connections when making them. If you are connecting/disconnecting much the O-rings wear out pretty quick (if your setup uses O-rings). I run a whole camp using a 20lb bottle and hoses.

Oh, which might suggest getting extra O-rings to keep on hand.

John

I know the refillable 1 lb tanks REW mentioned exist because I watched my father fill them and disposables some 30 yrs ago (relief valve setup is different). I also saw reference to them in another forum last winter.

I can't switch to 5's or 20's in my application and like the concept of refillables from the environmental point of view. My problem is I spent a least two nites last winter doing searches and cannot find a source. Sources for the refill adaptor were common (interesting there was some minor variation in instruction) but I couldn't put together the right search for the tanks - if they are still made.

Can anyone help with a source? It will be greatly appreciated.

TIA, gu

I know the refillable 1 lb tanks REW mentioned exist because I watched my father fill them and disposables some 30 yrs ago (relief valve setup is different). I also saw reference to them in another forum last winter.

I can't switch to 5's or 20's in my application and like the concept of refillables from the environmental point of view. My problem is I spent a least two nites last winter doing searches and cannot find a source. Sources for the refill adaptor were common (interesting there was some minor variation in instruction) but I couldn't put together the right search for the tanks - if they are still made.

Can anyone help with a source? It will be greatly appreciated.

TIA, gu

YA KNOW A 1# BOTTLE COST 1.00 WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO REFILL THEM WHERE IS THE BIG COST SAVINGS, LET ALONE THE ULTIMATE PRICE THAT MAY BE PAID... TIM C.

I don't think they cost a dollar to buy,.but cost of propane if you refil them its about (I'm guessing a little less than) a dollar,..reg 1lb ers cost about $2.50 here. I like the thought about the 3 lb refillable ones..got a zodi tent heater that uses outside air and I think the 3lbers would be EZer to handle/use for this purpose.

I don't think they cost a dollar to buy,.but cost of propane if you refil them its about (I'm guessing a little less than) a dollar,..reg 1lb ers cost about $2.50 here. I like the thought about the 3 lb refillable ones..got a zodi tent heater that uses outside air and I think the 3lbers would be EZer to handle/use for this purpose.

Any LP Gas orifice that will except the off the shelf #1 LP tank will adapt by means of an approved hose adapter to a #5, #10, or a #20 OPD equipped tank.

The #5 fat boy tank is about the size of a good sized cantaloupe and easy to store with the hose adapter. The adapter hose spins on and off very easily and fit the most common heaters with no worries.

Ed "Backwater Eddy" Carlson

(Vege-tar-ian), An old Indian word for "Bad Hunter".

><,sUMo,>

I'll try again. Does anyone know if 1 lb cylinders that are designed and intended to be refilled are still available? I don't need a distributer name, a manufacturer name off a tank would work. My sincerest appreciation for any help.

Cost of disposables is not an issue, It will take me a couple of yrs to recoup the cost of the refill adaptor not to mention the cost of 2 or 3 refillable 1 lbers. Refilling would eliminate the pollution associated with manufacturing and disposal of throw aways.

Thanks,
GU