HDS 9 gen3 vs Helix 9 combo w/side & down img.

[BCLII]

Which is the better unit or better advantages and why. Maybe it's just a Chevy-ford thing? Let's hear it without bashing either!
Thanks

[Gary Korsgaden]

Both are excellent units.

If you add a Airmar TM 150 to the HDS 9 Gen 3 would be my choice....

Side scan would prefer the Hummingbird

Wouldn't a HB Onix be a better comparison to use.

[BCLII]

Originally Posted by Gary Korsgaden

Both are excellent units.

If you add a Airmar TM 150 to the HDS 9 Gen 3 would be my choice....

Side scan would prefer the Hummingbird

Wouldn't a HB Onix be a better comparison to use.

Gary, what's the differences/advantages between the onix and the helix other than the touch part?

[Gary Korsgaden]

Originally Posted by BCLII

Gary, what's the differences/advantages between the onix and the helix other than the touch part?

I hear this a lot when comparing units.

Make sure to use the Humminbird Onix DI if you can---it is unbelievable compared to the regular (Helix and Legacy)---at least 2x a good of detail and pic. Those dedicated crystals make a huge difference and then it is like comparing apples to apples.

A question I have not being a bird guy, would the transducer with dedicated crystals make the difference on the Helix or Legacy?

Also airmar transducers are available for hummingbird too. If the MFD has the features you are looking for , touch or non-touch for example the next step is looking at the transducer, watts, cone angle and kHz for your application. Find buyers go for the bells and whistles of the mfd accept the transducer with the unit. Touch features I have found invaluable when changing transducer kHz or cone angles or going from chirp to non chirp

My choice in transducers is as narrow as a cone angle as I can get. Reasons, less dead band and I want to pinpoint location with my 2d ducer. Look at the coverage area of a 20 degree compared to a 9 degree as you go into deeper water. I fish a fair amount of deep water in a year.

You see, using panoptix to scan a area, will do a better job then a wide angle 2d ducer, to find fish and get me going in the right direction, a narrow cone angle to pinpoint even more.

Most would say 83-200 is the way to go. But I am a 50-200 guy, reason 200 kHz on a 50-200 ducer cone angle is half of the 83-200. So if you fish a lot of flat bottom not a lot of taper or break, 83-200 the way to go for most applications. But if you want to see your jig on the screen or see more of the fish relating to a break I am a believer in narrow cone angled ducers.

Ironically early this winter I purchased from Corey Jahn a HDS 9 gen 3, I downsized my 12 Gen 3, having been a fan of the 50-200 transducers for the cone angle on the 200 for sometime. In our conversation he also was a believer in the 200-50 KHZ ducers. The picture he sent me is worth a thousand words. Thank you Corey

In conclusion: once you have the basic features of the mfd like touch, fast processor, networking and chirp capable all important to me, selecting the right transducer can make any brand of mfd excel.

Would love to do a side to side with my panoptix and hb 360, I have the mfd to do it just need to drop the bucks to do so. I see merits to the 360 for the backtrolling walleye angler, the plus's I hear with the 360, works best moving slow and adjustably scans 180 degrees off the back. I have a panoptix ps 30 on the transom to do a side to side. The down side of the 360 has been the weight and bulky nature of the talon,on the transom. With a da ducer bracket and the bow 360 a perfect application for the 360 on the transom. The da ducer bracket would put the 360 ducer 15"-18" to the rear of the transom away from 2d etc. Would love to pick one up at a good price, may just have to bite bullet. I guess

[BCLII]

Then I will stay with my HDS gen2 touch line and add a gen 3 instead of pursuing a humminbird. I did run a 50/200 with my touch units the last couple of years on my Grady White, but didn't run any side to side comparisons with a 83/200. Gary, what's your take on lowrances new total scan ducer with the gen3's?
Looking to set up new ranger with latest technology.

[Gary Korsgaden]

Originally Posted by BCLII

Then I will stay with my HDS gen2 touch line and add a gen 3 instead of pursuing a humminbird. I did run a 50/200 with my touch units the last couple of years on my Grady White, but didn't run any side to side comparisons with a 83/200. Gary, what's your take on lowrances new total scan ducer with the gen3's?
Looking to set up new ranger with latest technology.

The Total Scan some of my thoughts:

What I like!
For rigging the ease of having one transducer is a plus.
Price $299.00

Why I won't be buying one!
The Lss-1 is the best down scan transducer for lowrance. Lss-2 I have for side scan, range but side to side the Lss-2 downscan isn't as good in my estimation compared to LSS-1 downscan

Total scan uses current Lowrance HDI with 83-200 KHZ, not able to get the numbers but would assume the 83-200, has the 200 KHZ with a 20 degree cone angle. My preference is a narrow cone angle. Like the 50- 200 has.Chirp with the HDI 2d sonar lowrance transducers, images are not as good as with a Airmar TM 150, no comparison.

Will the total scan allow chirp and downscan or side scan side to side on the same mfd? My thoughts doubt it.
Why my hunch with my system I have a chirp with a Airmar TM 150 coming into my Gen 3 via the sonar hub and the down scan side scan with a Lss-1 into a HD structure scan box via the Ethernet cable into gen 3. Allows chirp and DS/SS to be on the same screen without locking up. Into the Gen 3 I have my 50-200 which I can have chirp low-med-high, but I call this cheap chirp. Also a plus to chirp is picking the fixed frequency you want I have found 105-107 very very good overall. All added versatility to my set up.

Not excited with all in one ducers. My impression comprises performance for the sake of convience.

Here is a thought for you. Look at the Gen 2s, if your goal is having chirp add a sonar hub. Gen 2 9's for example were going for $900.00 in December. Then add a sonar hub for $273.00 is the lowest price I have found you have a Gen 3 without the faster processor and some Lowrance pro's have said the Gen 3 has a better screen, I have a 3 side to side with a 2 my eyes can't see the difference. The faster processor might be a huge benefit with cartography. just thinking of price.

Good idea to add a Lowrance unit, plan to network the two. You will never be sorry you did opens a whole new world of versatility or possible more confusion.

Let me share I have no issues with HB have two units on my Lund 2025. But when I looked at networking Lowrance had the way I like it plug and play before HB.

Hope this helps..thanks for the questions. I want to help if I can.

[Gary Korsgaden]

Got a call from a individual from Fargo-Moorhead. He wanted to bring a new boat to him for me to look at his set up. Rigged by a dealer had to fix his ground, huge root of his problem. Dealer blamed his Lowrance touch unit being faulty. With the touch units I have found be sure to have a good ground. Again particulary with touch units.

We started to talk about chirp, the dealer said you don't need it. (true) This dealer did not see any benefits to chirp unless in deep water, what dealer told him to the reason for the opinion. He agreed to go for a boat ride.

My 2025 has a MFD that the passenger can see what I see on my "slave" unit. It went like this. As I switched ducers and frequencies.

"this looks good, isn't this better, what about this it is ok, isn't this better, what does this look like when I do this and then do this, is second image better then the first, or do you like this better then this."

Then I gave a short demonstration with Panoptix.

As we motored in commented "sound like my eye doctor when I get new glasses, we both got a good laugh out of it.

Changed his mind on chirp for sure certainly going to be added, ordering a transducer Monday.

His fishing buddy, called me last night I agreed to look at his boat, next weekend. So it must of been a good day. Fun to put all this in real life.

Does one need all this certainly not but very fun

[Gary Korsgaden]

Three Points For Optimum Performance of Your Fish Finder Starts With The Transducer

It all starts with the transducer and its placement on the boat.Walleye anglers prefer transom mount transducers and bass fisherman bow mounted trolling motor transducers for their fish finders.

Second is the choice of frequencies, 83 khz to give the widest coverage, preferred for watching a bait under the transducer in shallow water. 200 KHZ to display a higher resolution image, separating fish targets from structure. 50 KHZ the choice of anglers fishing in deep water.

Third and the most important is beam angle which has greatest effect on the images displayed on your fish finder. Its more than simply an area of coverage. Most fish finders on the market today are sold with a wide beam 20 degree transducer. Not necessarily because it is the best beam angle for all fishing applications or optimum for all fishing situations. Instead most anglers and the stores that sell fish finders feel the wide coverage of 20 degrees is simply better. If you have more area of coverage then you should be able to see more fish, right? The answer is a definite maybe. The correct beam to selected and used depends on what your trying to see with your sonar. One example would be if your fishing suspended crappies then you probably would be very pleased with the performance of the wide beam transducer. But in a second example would be walleye that are hanging right on the bottom along a steep drop-off you may be disappointed with a wide beam transducer. The reason is due to the transducer cones dead zone.
Dead Zone (illustration on right) an area within the cone blind to you and your fish finder display The wider the beam angle the greater the possible dead zone. The sonar will mark bottom as the nearest distance it sees. Fishing over a slope will see the high side of the slope, at the edge of the cone, and mark that as bottom on your depth sounder screen. Any fish that are hanging close to the bottom in the center of the cone will be invisible to you because they are actually within the bottom signal on your depth finder. A narrower beam angle will reduce this effect.

Basic sketch gives you a idea on dead band and cone angle impact

[BCLII]

Thanks Gary, this is a wealth of information you shared!