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  #21  
Old 01-02-2020, 08:07 AM
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WallyWarrior WallyWarrior is offline
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Originally Posted by GBS View Post
I know too many engineers/DOT professionals who spend their full time careers analyzing the best ways to optimize a chaotic system to put any credence in the above. They do the research, data gathering and testing. What is your expertise in this?


Iím sure there are a lot of computer experts analyzing. A computer simulation takes out the human element and the human element is the problem. What they should do is get their a$$ in a car and see how it goes when the lane being merged into gives no space and the merging lane begins to use the cut and hope method. Every brake light multiplied by X2 as far back as the line is long.

Seems as though anyone with a brain would understand that the quicker vehicles get over when approaching a pinch point the smoother it will flow. Just watch animals pushed in a chute.


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  #22  
Old 01-02-2020, 08:25 AM
DW DW is online now
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So a person that maintains his speed and traffic lane is a passive aggressive driver and a threat to your family? I don't make confrontations, I stay in place and maintain my speed. Next time you get a chance, ask a state trooper who is more dangerous on the highway. A driver who maintains their speed and lane, or a driver who changes lanes and speed in a merging situation.
You are correct. The standard for lane changes and merges is that the driver changing lanes do so without causing other drivers to brake. I try to make a change to make room but only if I donít cause another driver to brake. Braking on the interstate is the cause of a lot of accidents. The worst are the overly courteous drivers that brake for anybody and everything. They have no concept and are oblivious they are impacting hundreds of drivers behind them for the sake of accommodating one driver. If I have space I accelerate allowing more space behind. The key is: donít brake! Unless you must.

I like the new zipper procedure. You see it more and more. In light traffic it wonít change or impede at all. In back ups it eliminates the ill will and ill feelings leading to aggressive driving and retaliation measures. Since two lanes of backed up vehicles take half the length of highway as one lane, less highway is impacted by backups although the volume of traffic through the merge remains the same provided the merge point is properly signed and coned.
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  #23  
Old 01-02-2020, 08:47 AM
Steven Pederson Steven Pederson is online now
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I'm not sure if philosophies in driving need to be legislated?
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  #24  
Old 01-02-2020, 08:52 AM
Suzuki Suzuki is offline
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Originally Posted by WallyWarrior View Post
Zipper merging is a joke. Doesnít work and no way to enforce. Snowflake law.


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This. As obvious as it is there's no way it will work due to most peoples competitive instincts. True instincts that cannot be altered by common sense.
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  #25  
Old 01-02-2020, 10:08 AM
GBS GBS is offline
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Originally Posted by WallyWarrior View Post
Iím sure there are a lot of computer experts analyzing. A computer simulation takes out the human element and the human element is the problem. What they should do is get their a$$ in a car and see how it goes when the lane being merged into gives no space and the merging lane begins to use the cut and hope method. Every brake light multiplied by X2 as far back as the line is long.

Seems as though anyone with a brain would understand that the quicker vehicles get over when approaching a pinch point the smoother it will flow. Just watch animals pushed in a chute.


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I'll pass along to my daughter, who oversees a major DOT, that she needs to grow a brain. Just as soon as she comes in from her hours sitting on an overpass in the rain actually watching the traffic, rewatching on the recorded video feed, working with her staff to reset the actual lanes and signs, and then watching again to see if it improved things or not. Of course they also do simulations - but pretty much to reject the most hair-brained ideas. The ones that show promise are tested in the real world, with many man-years of hours observing in a wide variety of conditions/settings. Far more than you will ever spend sitting in your car for your lifetime. But you're more knowledgeable, so I'll have her lay off herself and her staff, and just hire you.
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  #26  
Old 01-02-2020, 10:15 AM
GBS GBS is offline
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Originally Posted by Suzuki View Post
This. As obvious as it is there's no way it will work due to most peoples competitive instincts. True instincts that cannot be altered by common sense.
It's been a Minn. law for many years, so should be nothing new to you. Sure, people compete, and make a mess of whatever "process" is in place to manage them. But if you actually look at the TONS of real world observations, the zipper is less of a mess than the alternatives - and keeps the traffic flowing better, even if only incrementally better in some situations.
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  #27  
Old 01-02-2020, 10:27 AM
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Shellback Shellback is offline
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Originally Posted by Derwood View Post
"So a person that maintains his speed and traffic lane is a passive aggressive driver and a threat to your family?"

Quite possibly!! I would say "YES" in this situation if you COULD move over safely






I just texted my buddy who is with the State Patrol (he actually pretty much just investigates accident scenes now):

Me: "Guy gotta 'shop question' for you: if I'm cruising along on the freeway, and someone is merging on an on ramp, what should I do? Do I move over and make room if I can safely do so? Or do I stay in my lane and maintain my speed, and make the merging car adjust to me?"

State Police friend: "Freeway traffic has the right of way. Traffic entering the freeway has to yield. I always move over if safe to do so."

Me: "I gotta guy saying he doesn't move over because it's not his responsibility to do so. I say to move over if he can do so safely."
State Police friend: "Yes. He is wrong."

If it's not safe to do so, then my goodness, don't move (I've said that from the get go). If you are all by yourself on the road, and you don't think you can safely change lanes, I would say DO NOT change lanes (we wouldn't want you getting in an accident). But if you CAN change lanes, I don't get why you wouldn't. Seriously, if it were your wife, son or grandson merging, would you still just sit in your lane maintaining your speed if you could safely move over?

Derwood
If you were merging onto a highway with traffic, would you adjust your speed on the entrance ramp to smoothly flow into traffic, or do you expect the traffic with the right of way to move over for you? i just can't grasp your thought that traffic on a highway should adjust for entering traffic? How friggen hard is it to take advantage of a ramp the was put there for the sole purpose of allowing you to flow into existing traffic? If I am entering a highway, first thing I do after visually checking traffic, is to judge whether it is safer to accelerate and move in of front of traffic, or to lay back letting traffic pass till I get drop in behind them.Ask your trooper friend to show me in the state vehicle code where it says a driver must move over for traffic on an entrance ramp?
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  #28  
Old 01-02-2020, 10:49 AM
Custom Eyes Custom Eyes is offline
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Gotta love how every time we get into a driving discussion, people read things into posts that don't even exist. Even though it's worded plain as day, people's brains somehow read it completely different to suit their beliefs, bias, or perception. lol

Last edited by Custom Eyes; 01-02-2020 at 10:51 AM.
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  #29  
Old 01-02-2020, 10:51 AM
Aspencreek Aspencreek is offline
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Originally Posted by Shellback View Post
A driver already on the highway isn't supposed to move over to let an entering car merge. He has the right of way. The merging car either accelerates and gets ahead of the oncoming traffic, or lets off the gas and slides in behind. Why do you thing they have the accel and de cell lanes for entering and exiting highways? You can see the results of those folks that think they should move over everyday. Right lane moving smoothly at 55 mph, and the left lane rolling along at 60 +. So now someone starts to merge and mister good guy in the right lane decides to move over at 55 mph to let the guy in. Now you have everyone braking in the left lane, because someone thinks they are supposed to move over. If I'm not going to create a mess of traffic, I will move over for heavy trucks and vehicles towing that need extra room to merge. If you are in a vehicle that can easily accelerate ahead or drop in behind me, don't expect me to move over. PS half the time you move over for that guy that paces you, he will do the same after on the highway. Now you yourself have to either accelerate and pass him to get out of the left lane, or you need to slow down and drop in behind him.
yes you should be anticipating moving over into the left lane when a 70'+ Semi is trying to merge, he/she cannot just accelerate or slow down to merge. BTW, so what if you need to use your accelerator or brake pedal, we have WAY to many vehicles traveling down the road oblivious to what's going on around them with the cruise control stuck in place, thinking the world revolves around them. You and I as drivers SHOULD be anticipating things going on ahead of us, like merging traffic, vehicles changing lanes, slowing down and even stopping. And also knowing what's happening behind you as well, are you slowing up traffic behind you, is there some speedball headed your way in a hurry, this is called defensive driving.
But now with vehicles so insulated that sirens can't be heard over the radio, drivers in their own cocoon, cell phones, texting, and drunk and DUI drivers who think smoking a joint while driving will make them a better driver.
I understand the zipper law....just another piece of legislation to make the lawmaker justify his/her election, I wish they would do something about the donkey's behind that thinks they should run past the single file lineup right up to the merge and then pry themselves in. I applaud the 2 semi's that block the way.
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  #30  
Old 01-02-2020, 10:55 AM
Aspencreek Aspencreek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shellback View Post
If you were merging onto a highway with traffic, would you adjust your speed on the entrance ramp to smoothly flow into traffic, or do you expect the traffic with the right of way to move over for you? i just can't grasp your thought that traffic on a highway should adjust for entering traffic? How friggen hard is it to take advantage of a ramp the was put there for the sole purpose of allowing you to flow into existing traffic? If I am entering a highway, first thing I do after visually checking traffic, is to judge whether it is safer to accelerate and move in of front of traffic, or to lay back letting traffic pass till I get drop in behind them.Ask your trooper friend to show me in the state vehicle code where it says a driver must move over for traffic on an entrance ramp?
another reason for cars on the freeway to move over when they can is that the on ramps are simply to short in many cases for some vehicles to even get up to merging speed.
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