lithium battery questions

[rswan]

I have some interest installing lithium batteries in my boat. But I have two main concerns.

My first concern is charger compatibility. I currently have a Minn Kota precision PK 460. There is no setting for a lithium battery. Will this charger or any onboard charger be compatible with a lithium battery.

My second concern is lithium battery fires. I've heard of one guy burning his boat up with a lithium fire he couldn't extinguish. I assume you would need a lithium rated fire extinguisher.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. I see lithium batteries being talked about in other forums but didn't want to hijack those.

[andersaki]

I emailed Battleborn batteries last week and asked if my Minn Kota PC345 would be compatible with their lithium batteries. They said yes, set to the AGM setting. Concerning possible fires, go to batteryuniversarycom. They have a lengthy article on lithium battery safety. They say that a CO2 or ABC dry chemical extinguisher among others would work. I would also ask the battery manufacturer for a MSDS (material safety data sheet) for any concerns.

Mark

[Ozark Bob]

Andersaki is correct. No special fire extinguisher needed. If you have the 460 PC(not PK) charger you are good to go. As always if you ask your battery company if your charger is acceptable to them as they are the ones that would decide if you had a warranty claim. I have a 460PC and it works great for my lithium batteries. ( it may be MK 460 PC) that is the full model I believe. Bob

[rswan]

Well that might put my ship on diet. I run with 5 batteries.

[James F]

My boat is already on a diet! Seriously looking at Lithium. Like all new technologies, it gets confusing. I need a drawing, like the 24 volt with two 12 volt batteries.

[GBS]

Also note that there are several different chemistries referred to by "Lithium". Battleborn and most others marketing 12v replacements use "Lithium Iron" (not to be confused with "Lithium Ion"). Also referred to as LiFe, or LiFePO4.
Originally developed by work done at MIT, they were sold under the name "A123". Noted for their great stability, and very high resistance to fire/explosion as opposed to other flavors of lithiums. They don't quite have the same energy density or voltage output of other kinds of lithiums. When a company (laptops, "hoverboards", etc.) wants the smallest/lightest/strongest/cheapest for their product they go with another chemistry. But those come with much higher risk of failure (fire). The vast majority of fires are from using other kinds of battery chemistry.

Not claiming that LiFe's are absolutely safe, but the risk is far, far lower.

A123 as a company closed and has changed hands several times now. The current one is LithiumWerks. Unknown as to whether they still maintain the specific specs that A123 did, but is generally assumed to be the equivalent. Of course, China has completely taken over the market, so there are a wide variety of sources for LiFe cells, with the unknowns as to what are "good" vs what are not. Hence best to go with an established seller of 12v replacements (Battleborn, etc.) who one hopes has put the work into sourcing the best (safest) cells. One can buy very cheap versions on the 'Net. but just like China made tires, dog food, or milk you take your chances as to whether having them will end badly or not.

[Flyinghappy]

Originally Posted by James F

My boat is already on a diet! Seriously looking at Lithium. Like all new technologies, it gets confusing. I need a drawing, like the 24 volt with two 12 volt batteries.

As far as moving from lead to lithium, the circuit will stay the same as long as you get 12V lithiums. Just unhook the lead, hook the lithiums up the same way and off to the races. The only real difference is the lithiums will be significantly lighter, possibly smaller depending on the ones you get and they will hold voltage much further into the discharge cycle. A lithium at 20% would still have basically full voltage, whereas a lead at 50% has a low enough voltage as to be basically unusable for our electronics.

[andersaki]

Originally Posted by Ozark Bob

Andersaki is correct. No special fire extinguisher needed. If you have the 460 PC(not PK) charger you are good to go. As always if you ask your battery company if your charger is acceptable to them as they are the ones that would decide if you had a warranty claim. I have a 460PC and it works great for my lithium batteries. ( it may be MK 460 PC) that is the full model I believe. Bob

Bob,

Do you unplug your charger when your batteries are topped off, or leave it plugged in as one would for FLA or AGM?

Mark

[Ozark Bob]

Originally Posted by andersaki

Bob,

Do you unplug your charger when your batteries are topped off, or leave it plugged in as one would for FLA or AGM?

Mark

I definitely unplug, 2 reasons current surge(lightning or otherwise). While the MK PC chargers keep the float off or below thresholds for lithium's(13.4) electronic stuff can malfunction. (overcharge is bad news for my expensive lithium batteries. Self discharge is almost a 0 factor(unless you are talking years) Anything more than a 50% charge on lithiums can literally last for years without any drain from them. Bob

[andersaki]

Originally Posted by Ozark Bob

I definitely unplug, 2 reasons current surge(lightning or otherwise). While the MK PC chargers keep the float off or below thresholds for lithium's(13.4) electronic stuff can malfunction. (overcharge is bad news for my expensive lithium batteries. Self discharge is almost a 0 factor(unless you are talking years) Anything more than a 50% charge on lithiums can literally last for years without any drain from them. Bob

Thanks, concerning overcharging, is it critical to unplug immediately when they're charged? I'm thinking that if I fish all morning, then come in for lunch, a nap and maybe a run to town will it affect the batteries if they're left plugged in a little past the point of a full charge? Just trying to figure out how finicky they are. they're certainly too expensive to be making a mistake.

Mark