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  #11  
Old 03-01-2021, 11:35 PM
Bugler Bugler is offline
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I used to be on three BP pills per day. I saw a new cardio doc and she moved some things around and now I am on 2 BP pills. My BP is such that if I skip my meds for a day, which is kind of common for me, my BP will quickly go to 212/105. I don't eat that much salt and my last full panel had my sodium levels in the normal range. My issues are triglycerides and bad cholesterol in general.

That doc put me on Vascepa for the triglycerides and it seems to have helped. She also changed me from atorvastatin to 40mg rosuvastatin. The first time I tried to get the Vascepa through Walmart, they were going to charge me $400 for one month's worth. I went onto the manufacturer's website and they had a discount savings program which I signed up for. It sent a code to my phone. Walmart used that code to enter into my account and now I pay $9 per month for the same pills.

I have a follow up appt with my cardio doc tomorrow. She is going to yell at me for getting fatter since the last time I saw her.
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  #12  
Old 03-01-2021, 11:44 PM
Anonymouse Anonymouse is offline
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1st off, Anonymouse is not a doctor, so take everything hereafter with a grain on mono-sodium glutamate.
What Anonymouse is, is a "Medical Advocate" for a patient (spouse) with hypertension-related end-stage renal disease that resulted in a renal transplant in 2005.
As a result, Anonymouse spent more than 1,500 hours studying the various bodily systems involved in kidney disease and transplant medicine - on top of a life-long general fascination with medicine and medical science that stuffed a considerable amount of that knowledge into his cranium.

A few things here caught Anonymouse's attention regarding established medical orthodoxy;
1.) Lisinopril is a diurnal drug - i.e. it only works while you are awake.
When you go to sleep, so does the Lisinopril, and you get next-to-nothing BP control out of it.
This complicates matters because often blood pressure can rise throughout the night and you wake up with extremely high BP in the morning, (thanks to Lisinopril not doing anything while you were snoozin').

Once your BP hits over 140-150 systolic, it takes a LOT of medicine to bring it back down and the normal Beta-Blockers (Toprol, Corgard, Inderal, Levitrol), Calcium Channel Blockers (Amlodipine, Vasocor, Covera), Angiotensin II receptor blockers (Avapro, Cozaar, Diovan), ACE Inhibitors (Lisinopril, Enalapril, Accupril), Combined alpha and beta-blockers (Coreg), and other forms of pharmaceutical BP control, don't really work in rapid fashion - they are intended as timed-release duration drug delivery systems.
You might take as long as half a day to recover from abnormally high BP because of that.
If that goes on long enough, heart damage, kidney damage, liver damage - all sorts of bad thingys can happen from not-well controlled chronic hypertension.

2.) It isn't really necessary for a mechanic to know more than electricity flows from positive to negative to sorta-understand how car wiring and batteries and alternators work.
All they have to know how to do is look up the right alternator or bachery for your make and model.

A LOT of doctors know which drugs to prescribe - because a book told them to - but beyond basic science they do not REALLY understand the underlying mechanisms that make the drugs work the way they do.
Doctors study the human body machine and mostly leave the fine details about the number of copper windings on the alternator to the folks that assemble them (pharmacists and drug reps, who don't always understand the crap they peddle either).
Even specialists are guilty of this, because - once again - they are in the business of fixing the machine & have a vast PROVEN orthodoxy telling them HOW to fix the machine.

What Anonymouse found out after his wife was unable to get her hypertension under control - even AFTER the transplant - was that "orthodoxy" said BP can only be controlled within fairly loose limits & the standard of care is to prescribe 1 or more drugs to be taken q.d (1 time daily) or b.i.d. (two times daily).
NOWHERE is there any "orthodoxy" mentioning multiple dosing strategies, beyond twice a day.
That got Anonymouse to thinkin'...WHAT IF you DID dose more than 2 times daily, and adjusted the dosing amounts to fit the actual systolic BP levels (which actually follow a quite regular bio-rhythmic pattern)?
So...Anonymouse made up an Excel chart, studied the wife's BP every hour on the hour (+/- 5 minutes), for 3 months.

It didn't take 3 months to see the bio-rhythm, that was pretty apparent after just a few weeks - but since this was an experiment with full coordination & permission from her transplant care team, Anonymouse did it just as any good science experimenter would, to develop PROVABLE results from the hypothesis that there COULD be a better way to medicate hypertension.
At the end of 3 months Anonymouse had developed concrete numbers that showed exactly when the wife's BP rises and falls kicked in, and then we started delivering medicine dosing about 1 hour before each cycle change was scheduled to start (it takes 30-45 minutes for the pills to dissolve and start flooding the bloodstream).
After 5 weekly adjustment cycles, using 2.5mg. & 10mg. increments of 2 drugs (2X daily with 2.5mg. incremental amounts of Amlodipine and FOUR times daily for 10mg. incremental amounts of Propranolol) we had her BP so controlled it was almost impossible to find a period when her BP WASN'T within +/- 5 points of 115-125 systolic.

Anonymouse defied conventional "orthodoxy" and did what they said couldn't be done - control BP to within a 10 point range.
The best part of all that was it took LESS of the drugs in each 24 hour cycle than using the old 2X daily "orthodoxy".
It's been almost 10 years now since Anonymouse discovered TIGHT control WAS possible & in that time we've had to go back and re-regulate the amounts and timing of doses just twice - both times because the control was noticeably slipping as she passed through menopause and came out the other side.

Today she takes 5mg. of Amlodipine in the morning and 5mg. before bed, and 40mg. of propranolol every 5 hours, morning, mid-day, and afternoon, and an additional 60mg. of propranolol at bedtime, to carry her through the night when her BP was formerly spiking.
That's 180mg. of propranolol where the "orthodoxy" had her on 360mg. per day, delivered 2X -at morning and bedtime.
The Amlodipine was likewise reduced from 10mg. 2X daily - to 2.5mg. morning and 5mg. at night, though the last adjustment brought Amlodipine up to 5mg. 2X daily when we cut out Lisinopril completely.
It's STILL HALF of what she WAS taking before Anonymouse went on his journey of exploration to prove the "orthodoxy" was NOT always the best course of medicine.
The PROOF that it's working is the fact that a cadaver donor kidney allograft that likely should have given out after 6-8 years is still alive and kicking creatinine's butt after 16 years.

It is Anonymouse's belief that if doctors REALLY wanted to improve medicine, they would undertake such experiments on their own. But, just like the mechanic, it's easier to let O'Reilly Auto Parts just deliver the right alternator so they can wrench it on.
Of course there are likely ethical considerations and a host of legal issues if they did, but there is NOTHING stopping YOU from being your own "Medical Advocate" and getting permission from your GP or Specialist to conduct a similar process on yourself, to see if there is a better way to handle chronic under-controlled hypertension.
All it takes is dedication and 2-3 months of rigorous biorhythm charting & incremental meds dosing to find those perfect sweet spots for delivery AND get that runaway BP under tighter control - but ya gots ta do da werk, brah (and get the meds from yer doc).

They won't like it at first; a.) yer taking away control from them and sorta insulting their medical bona-fides when you undertake doctoring yourself & b.) you are telling them that their "orthodoxy" MIGHT be in question - pure anathema to physicians.
But if you insist, the will go along with it - just stay in close contact and always act like you are seeking their advice on what you are going to go ahead and do anyway. LMAO
Stroking a little ego goes a long way in getting prescription changes made.

Last edited by Anonymouse; 03-01-2021 at 11:54 PM.
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  #13  
Old 03-02-2021, 08:08 AM
Muskeye Muskeye is offline
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Default High Blood Pressure

I just started having high blood pressure within the last year. I was told about BEETS from HumanN and I started to use it daily. Within 3 days my blood pressure went back down to where it is suppose to be. I have only been taking it for 2 couple of weeks so I don't know how it will do long term but I would suggest you check it out.
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  #14  
Old 03-02-2021, 02:06 PM
Custom Eyes Custom Eyes is offline
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Diet, diet, diet. Mine was in the 190's and they put me on Lisinopril. Worst move I ever made. Lowered my bp a bit, but the side effects were unbearable, and some still linger to this day, two years later. With changing diet alone, eliminating high amounts of sugars, caffeine, and sodium, I got it down into the 130's, but it was a pain to maintain. I had to keep my sodium intake around 75% of the USRDA. Any more and my bp would shoot up, any less and I was deficient and felt like crap. Got off that stuff ASAP. Over the summer, I changed up the diet to almost a keto type and started working out and I feel better than I have in decades and the bp is steady in the low 120's. I eliminated all liquid sugars out of my diet, except for lite apple juice, and almost all carbs. I dropped 40+lbs, from 5'8" 192 to 148 in less than 2 months. From there, I locked into a diet of primarily whey protein, white meats, and salads, and increased the workouts to build muscle mass. Up to 162 and climbing and feeling even better. I try to take in at least 150 grams of protein on workout day, half on days off. Then I eat carbs as need, depending on my activity level that day. Typical day is 30g protein shake(Walmart Equate powder is the best bang for your buck) mixed 50-50 with a flavored decaf coffee for breakfast, maybe a bagel or muffin. Then another 60g before lunch workout. Nice salad for lunch. Another 30g shake to go with dinner that is usually chicken, turkey, or fish. All fresh meat prepared at home, no frozen processed crap!!! Evening workout, then the final 30g shake for the day spiked with a little whiskey and Irish Cream liquor. Carbs mixed in as needed. I really like the diet. Gives you total control of what you take in and leaves room for an occasional splurge. I usually grab a restaurant or fast food meal at least once per week as a treat with no consequences. I can even consume sodium again without it spiking my bp.

Last edited by Custom Eyes; 03-02-2021 at 02:09 PM.
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  #15  
Old 03-02-2021, 08:50 PM
Aspencreek Aspencreek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Custom Eyes View Post
Diet, diet, diet. Mine was in the 190's and they put me on Lisinopril. Worst move I ever made. Lowered my bp a bit, but the side effects were unbearable, and some still linger to this day, two years later. With changing diet alone, eliminating high amounts of sugars, caffeine, and sodium, I got it down into the 130's, but it was a pain to maintain. I had to keep my sodium intake around 75% of the USRDA. Any more and my bp would shoot up, any less and I was deficient and felt like crap. Got off that stuff ASAP. Over the summer, I changed up the diet to almost a keto type and started working out and I feel better than I have in decades and the bp is steady in the low 120's. I eliminated all liquid sugars out of my diet, except for lite apple juice, and almost all carbs. I dropped 40+lbs, from 5'8" 192 to 148 in less than 2 months. From there, I locked into a diet of primarily whey protein, white meats, and salads, and increased the workouts to build muscle mass. Up to 162 and climbing and feeling even better. I try to take in at least 150 grams of protein on workout day, half on days off. Then I eat carbs as need, depending on my activity level that day. Typical day is 30g protein shake(Walmart Equate powder is the best bang for your buck) mixed 50-50 with a flavored decaf coffee for breakfast, maybe a bagel or muffin. Then another 60g before lunch workout. Nice salad for lunch. Another 30g shake to go with dinner that is usually chicken, turkey, or fish. All fresh meat prepared at home, no frozen processed crap!!! Evening workout, then the final 30g shake for the day spiked with a little whiskey and Irish Cream liquor. Carbs mixed in as needed. I really like the diet. Gives you total control of what you take in and leaves room for an occasional splurge. I usually grab a restaurant or fast food meal at least once per week as a treat with no consequences. I can even consume sodium again without it spiking my bp.
What were your side effects from Lisinopril? I am having none....except I take it after dinner at night. My routine is eat dinner, take my pills, then I doze off for about 15 to 20 min, and back awake until 11 or so, then hit the sack. Maybe that is my side effect, drowzy, then wide awake until way past when I should be going to bed.

I was blaming the funny sleep pattern on the Diabetes meds. And man do I have vivid dreams!
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  #16  
Old 03-02-2021, 09:06 PM
Bugler Bugler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Custom Eyes View Post
I changed up the diet to almost a keto type and started working out and I feel better than I have in decades and the bp is steady in the low 120's. I eliminated all liquid sugars out of my diet, except for lite apple juice, and almost all carbs. I dropped 40+lbs, from 5'8" 192 to 148 in less than 2 months. From there, I locked into a diet of primarily whey protein, white meats, and salads, and increased the workouts to build muscle mass. Up to 162 and climbing and feeling even better. I try to take in at least 150 grams of protein on workout day, half on days off. Then I eat carbs as need, depending on my activity level that day. Typical day is 30g protein shake(Walmart Equate powder is the best bang for your buck) mixed 50-50 with a flavored decaf coffee for breakfast, maybe a bagel or muffin. Then another 60g before lunch workout. Nice salad for lunch. Another 30g shake to go with dinner that is usually chicken, turkey, or fish. All fresh meat prepared at home, no frozen processed crap!!! Evening workout, then the final 30g shake for the day spiked with a little whiskey and Irish Cream liquor. Carbs mixed in as needed. I really like the diet. Gives you total control of what you take in and leaves room for an occasional splurge. I usually grab a restaurant or fast food meal at least once per week as a treat with no consequences. I can even consume sodium again without it spiking my bp.
Nice job. I saw my cardio doctor today and have added about eight more pounds of weight over the past eight months. I need to drop weight. I am really muscular but now wrapped with fat in places. My daughter, who is a fitness trainer does not understand how my ab muscles show when I am probably 60 lbs overweight now. My triglycerides are my big problem. Today my doctor told me that they don't make anything stronger which they can give me.
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  #17  
Old 03-03-2021, 06:50 AM
Baseline Baseline is offline
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As usual with threads of this type you get lots of advice and opinion on what to do and what has worked for others. From your post it looks like you have years and years of trying one solution after another and added lots of behaviors trying to solve your problem. At 76 you've done a pretty good job as you are in the upper 20% of the average US age group.

The only comment I would throw in is to go see an Internist. These are the docs who specializes in BP issues and may find other causes for your issues with high BP.
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  #18  
Old 03-03-2021, 12:49 PM
Custom Eyes Custom Eyes is offline
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Originally Posted by Aspencreek View Post
What were your side effects from Lisinopril? I am having none....except I take it after dinner at night. My routine is eat dinner, take my pills, then I doze off for about 15 to 20 min, and back awake until 11 or so, then hit the sack. Maybe that is my side effect, drowzy, then wide awake until way past when I should be going to bed.

I was blaming the funny sleep pattern on the Diabetes meds. And man do I have vivid dreams!
Constant regular headaches, frequent migraine headaches, shoulder and neck pain, and insomnia. Also affected how the man unit worked. lol
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  #19  
Old 03-03-2021, 01:19 PM
Ozark Bob Ozark Bob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baseline View Post
As usual with threads of this type you get lots of advice and opinion on what to do and what has worked for others. From your post it looks like you have years and years of trying one solution after another and added lots of behaviors trying to solve your problem. At 76 you've done a pretty good job as you are in the upper 20% of the average US age group.

The only comment I would throw in is to go see an Internist. These are the docs who specializes in BP issues and may find other causes for your issues with high BP.
This is great advise and comment. Like many other topics there is good advise and not so good. You have a better chance of doing better if you get yours from an MD. As stated get a second or 3rd opinion. Don't stop taking your BP meds unless the Doc says so.(whatever your supposed side effects) They are less of a problem than a stroke. I won't be 76 till August, but I sure have plenty of issues and I blame most on age and weight. JMO Bob
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  #20  
Old 03-03-2021, 09:57 PM
Aspencreek Aspencreek is offline
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Originally Posted by Custom Eyes View Post
Constant regular headaches, frequent migraine headaches, shoulder and neck pain, and insomnia. Also affected how the man unit worked. lol
I don't get the headaches, now that I think about it, I haven't had a headache in quite a while, the insomnia I do get, took my pill tonight at about 6 and am still not tired after doing some late paperwork. I have a long day tomorrow so I'm going to force myself to hit the sack.
Man unit....what man unit, my wife decided that a long time ago.
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