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Old 03-23-2019, 06:41 PM
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Albertan Albertan is offline
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Default Stern Heavy - Lithium Ion Battery or Relocate AGM to Console

So I'm in the middle of rewiring my cranking battery. As I pulled everything out, it got me to thinking. My boat is stern heavy to begin with. I have a big 300HP Suzuki 4 stroke outboard on an Atlas jack plate, a 9.9 kicker with power start/trim/tilt, and a Minn Kota Vantage all hanging off the transom. I've recently added Lenco trim tabs, but still have to figure out a good four blade stern lift prop for my setup. Before the trim tabs were added, I actually had a couple of instances where I couldn't get the boat to plane...yes, it's that bad. So as I looked at the current AGM sitting on my deck to be rewired, I thought maybe now would be the time to get a little weigh out of the stern.

My first choice is to relocate the battery under the starboard console. I already have a similar battery under the port console for my electronics system. This would probably be the most effective means of maintaining good battery capacity while moving the weight out of the stern. My issue with this option is I am not quite sure how to accomplish it. I thought about mounting a piece of starboard with a couple of Blue Sea Systems 600A Bus Bars, one for the power and one for the ground from the battery. The rest of the fuse blocks and other wiring components from my stern rewiring project could also be neatly mounted on the board. It seems perfect in theory. But I am not sure how to determine how big the wires need to be running from the battery twelve or so feet to the bus bars. Heck I am not sure this is even feasible to do safely.

The other option is to replace the AGM battery with a Lithium Ion battery. This is less effective at dealing with the problem because there is still a battery in the back, albeit much lighter. Issues I have with this project are finding a lithium ion battery to replace the very high capacity AGM battery I am currently using. It looks like a Relion RB100 would likely do the trick. I'm not sure how to figure out what the cranking capacity is with the Relions though. Also, I have a brand new Minn Kota MK230PC charger for this battery. I'm not sure if it will work with the Relion, and I really don't want to go to Dual Pro chargers just to be able to charge a lithium ion battery.

So, my main question is if the relocation to the console is feasible is a safe and effective manner. If not, I'll need to look into the lithium ion setup more closely. Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 03-23-2019, 08:56 PM
Rippin Bite Rippin Bite is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albertan View Post
So I'm in the middle of rewiring my cranking battery. As I pulled everything out, it got me to thinking. My boat is stern heavy to begin with. I have a big 300HP Suzuki 4 stroke outboard on an Atlas jack plate, a 9.9 kicker with power start/trim/tilt, and a Minn Kota Vantage all hanging off the transom. I've recently added Lenco trim tabs, but still have to figure out a good four blade stern lift prop for my setup. Before the trim tabs were added, I actually had a couple of instances where I couldn't get the boat to plane...yes, it's that bad. So as I looked at the current AGM sitting on my deck to be rewired, I thought maybe now would be the time to get a little weigh out of the stern.

My first choice is to relocate the battery under the starboard console. I already have a similar battery under the port console for my electronics system. This would probably be the most effective means of maintaining good battery capacity while moving the weight out of the stern. My issue with this option is I am not quite sure how to accomplish it. I thought about mounting a piece of starboard with a couple of Blue Sea Systems 600A Bus Bars, one for the power and one for the ground from the battery. The rest of the fuse blocks and other wiring components from my stern rewiring project could also be neatly mounted on the board. It seems perfect in theory. But I am not sure how to determine how big the wires need to be running from the battery twelve or so feet to the bus bars. Heck I am not sure this is even feasible to do safely.

The other option is to replace the AGM battery with a Lithium Ion battery. This is less effective at dealing with the problem because there is still a battery in the back, albeit much lighter. Issues I have with this project are finding a lithium ion battery to replace the very high capacity AGM battery I am currently using. It looks like a Relion RB100 would likely do the trick. I'm not sure how to figure out what the cranking capacity is with the Relions though. Also, I have a brand new Minn Kota MK230PC charger for this battery. I'm not sure if it will work with the Relion, and I really don't want to go to Dual Pro chargers just to be able to charge a lithium ion battery.

So, my main question is if the relocation to the console is feasible is a safe and effective manner. If not, I'll need to look into the lithium ion setup more closely. Thanks.
I ran Relion lithiums, You will need RB100 HP for acc and cranking, My minn kota PC charger wouldnt work so i had to run the Dual pro with relion settings, I have relions coming for the next boat and dual pro charger
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Old 03-23-2019, 09:19 PM
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BreezyPoint BreezyPoint is offline
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Very expensive and the savings is only about 30 pounds. Just a drop in the bucket for over $1000. You also shouldnít mix battery types on your charger so if you have one charger for all of your batteries, you may need a separate charger. I vote for your first solution.


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Old 03-23-2019, 11:20 PM
GBS GBS is offline
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I just got done planing out battery relocation in my RV, and that was for a low power load. Time to start googling to learn about "ampacity" and "voltage drop" in long battery runs. Without knowing what your peak amp draw will be (probably for starting the main motor), it's hard to second guess. I ran across some yachting posts that discussed runs similar to yours, and they were coming up with needing 4/0 cable.
At West Marine, that cable runs $15 per foot - so $360 just for wire. Plus lugs. Plus expensive crimping tool. And after doing research, you may need even heavier.
Do you REALLY need a group 31 in the rear (or equivalent Lithium)? Do you not run your main motor enough to charge?
Is the TM 12v? You didn't mention having two batteries for it. Either way, you may want to look at downsizing the main battery and use it just for starting, jack, and the kicker. Then put downsized battery for trolling under the console. Less max amps, so lighter wire. And if it is 24/36 volt, then you can go even smaller on the wire.
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Old 03-24-2019, 06:58 AM
andersaki andersaki is online now
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It sounds like, by your description, that the installation of the trim tabs helped somewhat. Before moving or buying batteries I would get the right four blade prop and do some on the water testing. Start with the simplest, most logical solutions. For me, moving the battery would be a last resort.

andersaki
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:57 AM
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Albertan Albertan is offline
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After reading all the information I could find, I think I will just drop down to a smaller Group 24 battery I have in my shop. The Relions are super expensive to get up here, don't work reliably with my brand new Minn Kota charger, and the weight savings while helpful really doesn't justify the cost. I still like the idea of relocating the battery to the console, but there are potential pitfalls (as well as maybe safety issues) with that as well. So I think in the end I will just stick with a smaller AGM in the stern and see if I can't work out my issues with improved propping. Thanks for everyone's help.
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:31 AM
Waxy Waxy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albertan View Post
After reading all the information I could find, I think I will just drop down to a smaller Group 24 battery I have in my shop. The Relions are super expensive to get up here, don't work reliably with my brand new Minn Kota charger, and the weight savings while helpful really doesn't justify the cost. I still like the idea of relocating the battery to the console, but there are potential pitfalls (as well as maybe safety issues) with that as well. So I think in the end I will just stick with a smaller AGM in the stern and see if I can't work out my issues with improved propping. Thanks for everyone's help.
I think thatís the right call.

Send me a PM, Iíve messed with a lot of props and I have a couple youíre welcome to try.

Waxy
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Old 03-25-2019, 11:01 AM
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CI_Guy CI_Guy is online now
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You might have a hard time finding a group 24 battery with the 800 CCA your 300hp Suzuki requires. The 2 group 24 batteries I have in my garage are Car Quest Gold and the Dual purpose is 550 CCA and the starting battery is 600 CCA.
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Old 03-25-2019, 12:49 PM
Snowking Snowking is offline
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I been happy with this site for tinned marine wiring. http://www.bestboatwire.com/marine-w...-battery-cable

Looks like 8.70 for 4/0 stuff.

Maybe being in Canada your using a aluminum prop. A high end stainless steel prop would get you on plane faster. I do not think I would rely on a size 24 battery to start a 300 fourstroke.
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Old 03-25-2019, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CI_Guy View Post
You might have a hard time finding a group 24 battery with the 800 CCA your 300hp Suzuki requires. The 2 group 24 batteries I have in my garage are Car Quest Gold and the Dual purpose is 550 CCA and the starting battery is 600 CCA.
I ran this battery for a couple of seasons even with the downriggers attached and never had any issues. I suppose I could go back to a cranking battery rather than a deep cycle. But, again, no issues so far. It is heavy though.
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