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So you "Think" your stabilizer is protecting you while you still use E-10 gas - Page 3 - Walleye Message Central
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  #21  
Old 11-12-2019, 12:25 PM
REW REW is offline
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Laws in MN with respect to fuels:

https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/laws/ETH?state=MN

and:

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/239.791

Notice that air ports and marinas have exemptions with respect to ethanol mixed fuels.

I know that my sons can go to the Marina's in their boat harbors and buy ethanol free fuel and oly pay a premium of about $1.80 per gallon for the service.
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  #22  
Old 11-12-2019, 12:40 PM
Ozark Bob Ozark Bob is offline
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The video guy did a bunch of stuff to check out effects of ethanol vs. non ethanol W/WO stabilizer. Possibly valid for the most part. This is not really an argument anymore. Ethanol is not the best thing for internal combustion engines(given). Non ethanol is not as good for the environment(probably). What we care about here is, do some supplements help keep your engines running better or longer?(lots of opinions). I will go by my experience. Since we are at WC I will site my 2002 Ficht 200HP outboard. First 3 years E10.(too hard to find non ethanol) Retired and moved. Use marina non ethanol Since 2005. I change plugs yearly. That is the only engine maintenance ever performed on it.(other stuff,impeller and lower unit fluid etc. done also) Ficht has never had a good record for fuel related problems. I have used a can of Seafoam for every 25 gallons of fuel for 17 years. My other fuel related expense is using full synthetic 2 cycle oil.(Penzoil) Works for me. Bob
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  #23  
Old 11-12-2019, 01:05 PM
Mojo-NC Mojo-NC is offline
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[/QUOTE] As a result of virtually everyone using ethanol mixed fuel here in MN - especially in the winter - which is dictated by MN law, the cases of stalled vehicles due to frozen gas lines is virtually non existent. If there is any water in the fuel, the ethanol absorbs the water and it goes through the engine just fine supplying power on those cold winter days.
[/QUOTE]

Not quite REW. Ethanol-free gas and water don't mix at all, or to a very small extent as gas is hydrophobic. However, ethanol does help dissolve H20 in the fuel as you stated making it more hydrophilic, and therein lies the problem. Once the fuel reaches the maximum amount of H20 that can remain "dissolved", it will separate into aqueous and organic layers, with the H20 being on the bottom. The fuel additives help prevent this phenomenon from occurring.
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  #24  
Old 11-12-2019, 01:27 PM
rwl rwl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Custom Eyes View Post
There's a lot of articles out there. The one I was trying to find was a university study that actually had the data and pictures of the carbon and soot build up. In one case, the piston top was completely covered over and started to change the compression ratio and vale to piston clearance.


Here's one link. Many more out there.

https://www.superatv.com/blog/octane-myths/
Thanks, I'll dig around, the one you linked doesn't really get too far in depth, just " worse case you'll get more soot". What they are saying might make sense seeing higher octane doesn't detonate as easily. I'd like to see how it all works.

Too be clear I don't tend run high octane in stuff it's not required, like my truck or cars, I do run it in my side by sides (one is recommended for max performance) and all other small engines from pressure washers, lawn mowers chainsaws and such, but mainly because it is the way I can get ethanol free.

Most modern computer controlled engines adjust to the octane, by sensors and such to control spark and valve timing. I think my verado says min 87 octane but max performance isn't achieved without 91 or 93, I'm sure they can't advance the timing as much with lower octane.

Probably most important to use top tier gasoline, and I am not sure what stations do not have top tier.
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  #25  
Old 11-12-2019, 02:14 PM
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Thunderjet Thunderjet is offline
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Havent used any gas stabilizers in the last 25 years and ZERO issues with any of our boats, RV's, ATV's, snow mobiles, etc. Some of them stay in storage for up to 8 months at a time.

Until someone that I trust PROVE they work I consider them snake oil in a bottle.
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  #26  
Old 11-12-2019, 02:42 PM
Custom Eyes Custom Eyes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwl View Post
Thanks, I'll dig around, the one you linked doesn't really get too far in depth, just " worse case you'll get more soot". What they are saying might make sense seeing higher octane doesn't detonate as easily. I'd like to see how it all works.

Too be clear I don't tend run high octane in stuff it's not required, like my truck or cars, I do run it in my side by sides (one is recommended for max performance) and all other small engines from pressure washers, lawn mowers chainsaws and such, but mainly because it is the way I can get ethanol free.

Most modern computer controlled engines adjust to the octane, by sensors and such to control spark and valve timing. I think my verado says min 87 octane but max performance isn't achieved without 91 or 93, I'm sure they can't advance the timing as much with lower octane.

Probably most important to use top tier gasoline, and I am not sure what stations do not have top tier.
If I remember correctly, that was mentioned. Modern engines that are computer controlled, it's not as much of an issue. I know I've seen it first hand in my father in law's carbed snow mobiles he leaves up here for us to borrow in the winter. Always brings them up with a fresh tank of premium and the plugs foul out every season. I'll clean them up or replace them and start filling the sleds with 87 octane E10 (lying to him and saying I put premium in lol) and the plugs are usually good for the rest of the season. That man uses nothing but either premium or non-ethanol and has more fuel related problems in his small engines than anyone I've ever met. Part of the problem is that he gets gas in the boonies where they don't sell much premium or non-ethanol and the fuel is old. Our station here in town only gets their non-ethanol tank filled once per year, maybe twice some years.
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  #27  
Old 11-12-2019, 03:35 PM
Custom Eyes Custom Eyes is offline
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After poking around the Lucas website, I don't even think this test is even valid. It looks like the product he used isn't even meant for storage. Lucas makes a separate stabilizer specifically for storage. They're not specific, but it reads like the stuff he used in the test is meant for continuous use, not storage. 9 months is pushing it for any of the products out there specifically meant to be storage stabilizers, let alone one that appears not even meant to be a storage additive. As far as corrosion, same issue. Inhibitors and acid scavengers are consumable during the protection process and if the additive was only designed to provide protection for a short time during continued engine use, exposing it to free water over 9 months invalidates the test IMHO by subjecting it to conditions it was not even formulated for. I'd like to see the test with the proper Lucas additive, or better yet, something like Stabil 360.
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  #28  
Old 11-15-2019, 08:56 AM
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Dave34 Dave34 is offline
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Interesting video. I've used non-oxy fuel for as long as I can remember in my outboards, and all of my lawn & garden equipment. Even more interesting was the conversation I had with a Yamaha Marine rep at the Minneapolis Boat Show several years ago. He said they got random samples of E10 fuel from about a dozen gas stations and tested it. They found that the actual content of the E10 was anywhere between E5 and E30. There was no consistency as to how the fuel was blended. The takeaway from that was you really don't know how much alcohol is in the fuel we are pumping into our vehicles.
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  #29  
Old 11-15-2019, 09:16 AM
law57 law57 is offline
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Default Ethanol - think again...

Below is a blog by Bernard Weinstein PhD - SMU. He is a member of the Maguire Energy Institute at SMU. It is entitled "Don't increase the ethanol mandate, get rid of it'.

We all know ethanol is a joke. It's use is purely political. If Iowa was not the first Presidential primary state, ethanol would be dropped like a hot rock. Read some of the statistics that Dr. Weinstein states.

A personal note: A few years ago I visited a sister in Central Iowa. When I got to town I stopped to fill up. The pump offered non-ethanol, 87 octane, pure gasoline! The farmers don't even use that 'stuff'.

https://www.limaohio.com/opinion/378...-get-rid-of-it
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