Alumacraft Classic 165/Escape 165-Command Thrust?

[Hook_settr]

I'm close to pulling the trigger on either an Alumacraft Classic 165 or an Escape 165 (both tiller models) and I am driving up to Minnesota this Friday to see them first hand. The Classic is rated for a 60hp and the Escape is rated for a 50hp. I plan to max the hp on whichever boat I choose.

I fish a river that can get pretty low in the summer so getting up on plane as quick as possible would be a huge plus. I also get up to Canada once a year (hoping twice a year soon) and would like the low end pop to punch through waves and stay on plane easily (2 guys, our gear, a 24-volt TM system and a full livewell) when I have a long run to get back to camp and the wind has come up. Based on these two scenarios I am planning on going with the Mercury Command Thrust with the Big Tiller in either a 60hp or 50hp depending on the boats rating.

Does anyone have any first hand experience with this type of set up? Is the Command Thrust engine overkill? If the Command Thrust engine is a good choice, would it be best to stay with a 3-blade prop since the gear case already has a lower gear ratio? I've heard that the 4-blade props on the Command Thrust engines don't work well for getting down to back trolling speeds.

Any helpful insight or first hand experience is appreciated.

Thanks!
Hook_settr

[Hot Runr Guy]

With the (2) 60hp tillers I've had, I looked at this from a different angle. I run waters that can be stump and/or boulder infested, would the extra 2-5/8" depth of the CT lower unit mean the difference between passing over that rock, or hitting it?

Below is a comparison of the 2.

HRG

[Hat Trick]

Originally Posted by Hook_settr

I'm close to pulling the trigger on either an Alumacraft Classic 165 or an Escape 165 (both tiller models) and I am driving up to Minnesota this Friday to see them first hand. The Classic is rated for a 60hp and the Escape is rated for a 50hp. I plan to max the hp on whichever boat I choose.

I fish a river that can get pretty low in the summer so getting up on plane as quick as possible would be a huge plus. I also get up to Canada once a year (hoping twice a year soon) and would like the low end pop to punch through waves and stay on plane easily (2 guys, our gear, a 24-volt TM system and a full livewell) when I have a long run to get back to camp and the wind has come up. Based on these two scenarios I am planning on going with the Mercury Command Thrust with the Big Tiller in either a 60hp or 50hp depending on the boats rating.

Does anyone have any first hand experience with this type of set up? Is the Command Thrust engine overkill? If the Command Thrust engine is a good choice, would it be best to stay with a 3-blade prop since the gear case already has a lower gear ratio? I've heard that the 4-blade props on the Command Thrust engines don't work well for getting down to back trolling speeds.

Any helpful insight or first hand experience is appreciated.

Thanks!
Hook_settr

Congrats on the boat. For what it's worth, I think the Alumacraft Classic 165 is the best boat they make.

[Hook_settr]

Originally Posted by Hot Runr Guy

With the (2) 60hp tillers I've had, I looked at this from a different angle. I run waters that can be stump and/or boulder infested, would the extra 2-5/8" depth of the CT lower unit mean the difference between passing over that rock, or hitting it?

Below is a comparison of the 2.

HRG

Thanks for that info HRG. I had asked one dealer and he said that it didn't hang any lower in the water than the standard model. 2 5/8" doesn't sound like much but the river I run gets pretty stumpy too.

Any thoughts on the performance of the CT versus standard model? I would like to think that both of those boats are relatively light and if they're are maxed out on HP, even with a standard lower unit, they would perform well.

I've owned my current boat for 13 years now so I don't get a new rig very often. I just want to make sure I make an informed decision.

Thanks again!

[ChuckD]

I can't speak for the Classic 165 or Escape, but I run a '04 Yukon 165 tiller w/ '14 50hp Honda (max hp). The Escape 165 looks like the same specs as mine. The Classic is 6" wider and 2" shorter in length.

When relatively empty my boat planes out fast and I have no problems getting on plane in 2-3' of water and it runs in shallow water well. It's my fishing and waterfowl boat so it's been around. I love the boat.

[Hot Runr Guy]

Originally Posted by Hook_settr

Thanks for that info HRG. I had asked one dealer and he said that it didn't hang any lower in the water than the standard model. 2 5/8" doesn't sound like much but the river I run gets pretty stumpy too.

Any thoughts on the performance of the CT versus standard model? I would like to think that both of those boats are relatively light and if they're are maxed out on HP, even with a standard lower unit, they would perform well.

I've owned my current boat for 13 years now so I don't get a new rig very often. I just want to make sure I make an informed decision.

Thanks again!

Honestly, I've never been able to find un-biased, non-marketing data to show a performance difference between the 2. The CT used to be called the BigFoot lower unit, marketed originally for the pontoon boat crowd. Why it's all of a sudden better than sliced bread is beyond me, until somebody does a side by side comparison on the same hull.

I was happy with the standard lower unit, turning a 4-blade Spitfire prop, on a similar-sized Lund 1650 Rebel XL tiller.

HRG

[BKfishing]

My buddy and I both have a Lund Fury xl tiller. Only difference: I have a Honda 50, he has a Mercury 50 CT.

Disclosure: even though both engines are 50hp, the Honda 40/50hp is the same block while the Mercury 50/60hp is the same block, so weight and displacement are different between our engines.

Out of the water:
Side by side, the top part of the Mercury engine is slightly larger than the Honda BUT the lower unit on that CT is huge, the prop has a much bigger diameter and the engines hangs at least 3" lower than my Honda. While on the trailer, the CT skeg easily hits the ground. My cousin has a regular Mercury 60 and the CT lower unit is much larger and hangs lower (HRG's diagram is spot on but the difference in person is substantial). From what my buddy was told, the CT 50 uses the lower unit designed for a regular Mercury 75hp.

In the water:
In speed races and after driving both, the Honda planes quicker and has a faster top speed (we both have the same pitch prop, 13p, but that giant lower unit and prop does have some drag in the water). When in the shallows, the Mercury has to be a lot more careful to keep from hitting rocks and stumps due to it being deeper in the water. Plus, Mercury has only trim and no tilt feature when lifting the engine. Meaning there is no way to quickly raise the engine if a hazard approaches (unlike the Honda).

After comparing size and performance against my engine, if he could do it over again, he would not have got a CT. No idea why the Mercury CT is the default engine for Lund tiller boats.

In my opinion, I would not recommend putting a CT on a tiller boat. Absolute overkill with no seen benefit. Plus, your top end performance will be sacrificed.

[7 Mag]

Of the two boats you listed the classic has the 2XB hull, bigger HP and a wider beam it would be my choice. I have a Lund Fury XL with a Mercury 40 HP and it gets up on plane fast, I think either of the two Alumacraft boats will get up on plane fast. I would seriously consider the classic with the better hull if you're going to fish in water with a lot of hazards.

[BCLII]

Originally Posted by 7 Mag

Of the two boats you listed the classic has the 2XB hull, bigger HP and a wider beam it would be my choice. I have a Lund Fury XL with a Mercury 40 HP and it gets up on plane fast, I think either of the two Alumacraft boats will get up on plane fast. I would seriously consider the classic with the better hull if you're going to fish in water with a lot of hazards.

The Classic 165 only has the 2XB in the bow. It doesn’t run through the hull! But helps with heavier waves.
I just purchased a 2019 classic 165cs holdover as my second boat and also looked at the escape. As stated above the Classic is a wider boat and has a couple more features. It rides good and I mine has a Suzuki 60. Taking it to our AZ home this fall!

[man164]

I would opt for the regular gearcase on that boat.

The original reason the Command Thrust was offered if my memory is correct is to be able to use a wider selection of props. I.e. not being limited to something like a Spitfire or Black Max.

That being said you do not need to be able to run the other props Mercury offers........the other props get expensive real quick.

Get a regular gearcase and a Spitfire prop.