Home   |  Message Board   |  Information   |  Classifieds   |  Features   |  Video  |  Boat Reviews  |  Boat DIY
new windmill - Page 4 - Walleye Message Central
Walleye Message Central

Go Back   Walleye Message Central > Walleye Message Central > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 07-04-2015, 03:10 PM
3M TA3 3M TA3 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Burt Lake
Posts: 2,732
Default

From Jack Dini, Canada Free Press...

"Wind turbines are extraordinarily unreliable because wind speeds are so inconsistent; the average output of a turbine is only about a quarter of its capacity (known as the ‘load factor’). Also, due to the vagaries of the wind, wind turbines are unpredictable. This means that, in order to guarantee a continuous supply of electricity, alternative sources of power have to be kept permanently on standby or ‘spinning reserve’, ready to step in at a moment’s notice to make up for the lack of supply from the wind farms.

Even when the wind is blowing, these backup power stations, usually coal-fired, have to be kept running, using fuel, generating steam, emitting carbon dioxide, ready to ramp up their turbines the moment the supply from the wind machines stopped coming."

Perhaps this link will help. http://www.wind-power-program.com/large_turbines.htm The Steady power and efficiency curve for the Vestas V90 3MW turbine. It shows maximum efficiency at wind speeds of 14 meters per second (about 30 MPH) and if you look closely, when the wind is reduced to 7 meters per second (about 15 miles per hour, the output is just a little over 500KW. It does appear that performance has improved over the past few years but I assure you that the wind isn't blowing 30 MPH all the time. And should you be interested at all you would see that the Load Factors for wind turbines throughout the US are well under 30% which means that 3MW turbines are averaging less than 1 Mega Watt contribution to the grid. And we still have to consider those standby sources running too. Additionally, the owners of those wind farms are not selling their electricity when the price is low, they're selling when it's profitable so even when the wind is blowing the turbines may not turning.

So what do you think now? Is any of this right?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #32  
Old 07-04-2015, 04:33 PM
Laker3588 Laker3588 is offline
Minnow
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: .
Posts: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3M TA3 View Post
From Jack Dini, Canada Free Press...

"Wind turbines are extraordinarily unreliable because wind speeds are so inconsistent; the average output of a turbine is only about a quarter of its capacity (known as the ‘load factor’). Also, due to the vagaries of the wind, wind turbines are unpredictable. This means that, in order to guarantee a continuous supply of electricity, alternative sources of power have to be kept permanently on standby or ‘spinning reserve’, ready to step in at a moment’s notice to make up for the lack of supply from the wind farms.

Even when the wind is blowing, these backup power stations, usually coal-fired, have to be kept running, using fuel, generating steam, emitting carbon dioxide, ready to ramp up their turbines the moment the supply from the wind machines stopped coming."

Perhaps this link will help. http://www.wind-power-program.com/large_turbines.htm The Steady power and efficiency curve for the Vestas V90 3MW turbine. It shows maximum efficiency at wind speeds of 14 meters per second (about 30 MPH) and if you look closely, when the wind is reduced to 7 meters per second (about 15 miles per hour, the output is just a little over 500KW. It does appear that performance has improved over the past few years but I assure you that the wind isn't blowing 30 MPH all the time. And should you be interested at all you would see that the Load Factors for wind turbines throughout the US are well under 30% which means that 3MW turbines are averaging less than 1 Mega Watt contribution to the grid. And we still have to consider those standby sources running too. Additionally, the owners of those wind farms are not selling their electricity when the price is low, they're selling when it's profitable so even when the wind is blowing the turbines may not turning.

So what do you think now? Is any of this right?
3 MW does not equal 5MW and 30mph doesn't equal 50mph as well as 500kW is not 8 times less than 3000kW. Thank you for researching and proving your own post wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 07-04-2015, 07:25 PM
3M TA3 3M TA3 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Burt Lake
Posts: 2,732
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laker3588 View Post
3 MW does not equal 5MW and 30mph doesn't equal 50mph as well as 500kW is not 8 times less than 3000kW. Thank you for researching and proving your own post wrong.
You're welcome but you forgot to answer one of my questions. It sounds as though the wind really blows where you live. Much more than 15 miles per hour each and every day, 24 hours a day. Wow. How else would you get 40 to 45%? Ooops. Sorry another question.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 07-04-2015, 08:04 PM
Stripehunter Stripehunter is offline
Wallhanger
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 577
Default

Who is John Galt?
__________________
This place stinks now.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 07-04-2015, 08:11 PM
CKM CKM is offline
Wallhanger
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,835
Default

If wind power wasn't federally subsidized we wouldn't even be discussing this.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 07-04-2015, 08:42 PM
Laker3588 Laker3588 is offline
Minnow
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: .
Posts: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3M TA3 View Post
You're welcome but you forgot to answer one of my questions. It sounds as though the wind really blows where you live. Much more than 15 miles per hour each and every day, 24 hours a day. Wow. How else would you get 40 to 45%? Ooops. Sorry another question.
I live in northwest Iowa and wind speed at hub height (80m+) ranges from 7.5 to 8.5 meter per second or 16.7mph to 19mph this is why the CF is over 40%. ASOS stations take wind speed and direction at 10m. I have a little knowledge on this subject because I do it for a living.

Are there problems with wind energy? Yes. Is green energy going to take the place of other power generation? No. I look at it as supplementing our ever growing population. As of right now 30% of all energy generated in Iowa is wind.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 07-04-2015, 11:22 PM
old boat
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"If wind power wasn't federally subsidized we wouldn't even be discussing this."


You mean like the federal subsidies of oil, coal, and nuclear get?

Ye gods does anyone read prior posts? The talk had shifted to new designs and not the old 3 bladed unreliable poor output choppers designed 2 decades ago.There are are working models that are proven to work much more efficiently and at lower wind speeds. More that are being tested and look even better,time will tell on those but right now we have much better choices,I suppose it doesn't make any difference, like many subjects here people have made a stand and will try to find fault if they want to justify their thinking no matter what. Didn't we have this discussion not many years ago how electric cars would never work? My wife's does and has for over two years, they are getting better every year too. Yeah you can argue negative about them too, are they cost effective, will the batteries last? etc. But they sure work and very well and smoothly.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 07-05-2015, 07:42 AM
3M TA3 3M TA3 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Burt Lake
Posts: 2,732
Default

This is where my 8X came from.


Source: American Wind Energy Association

When it comes to wind turbines, placement is everything. Knowing how much wind an area has, what the speeds are and how long those speeds last are the crucial deciding factors in building an efficient wind farm. The kinetic energy in wind increases exponentially in proportion to its speed, so a small increase in wind speed is in fact a large increase in power potential. The general rule of thumb is that with a doubling a wind speed comes an eight-fold increase in power potential. So theoretically, a turbine in an area with average wind speeds of 26 mph will actually generate eight times more electricity than one set up where wind speeds average 13 mph. It's "theoretically" because in real-world condition, there is a limit to how much energy a turbine can extract from the wind. It's called the Betz limit, and it's about 59 percent. But a small increase in wind speed still leads to a significant increase in power output

And from the Iowa Energy Center.

Wind Power Wind power is a measure of the energy available in the wind. It is a function of the cube (third power) of the wind speed. If the wind speed is doubled, power in the wind increases by a factor of eight (23). This relationship means that small differences in wind speed lead to large differences in power. For example, assume that one person takes a speed measurement of 10 mph and another person, at the same time but at a neighboring site, gets a reading of 12.6 mph. For this difference of 2.6 mph, there is a 100% difference in the available wind power (103 = 1000 vs. 12.63 = 2000)! This example points out that minor differences in wind speed due either to site selection or measurement errors can have a major bearing on a decision to invest in a wind turbine. - See more at: http://www.iowaenergycenter.org/wind....DN0CwOTU.dpuf

Last edited by 3M TA3; 07-05-2015 at 08:03 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 07-05-2015, 07:58 AM
Adly 1 Adly 1 is offline
Slot Fish
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Eastern Iowa
Posts: 116
Default

not sure what has all been discussed but coal fired plants struggle to be 30% efficient. So with any power plant being efficient is what we need.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 07-05-2015, 08:25 AM
Laker3588 Laker3588 is offline
Minnow
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: .
Posts: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3M TA3 View Post
This is where my 8X came from.


Source: American Wind Energy Association

When it comes to wind turbines, placement is everything. Knowing how much wind an area has, what the speeds are and how long those speeds last are the crucial deciding factors in building an efficient wind farm. The kinetic energy in wind increases exponentially in proportion to its speed, so a small increase in wind speed is in fact a large increase in power potential. The general rule of thumb is that with a doubling a wind speed comes an eight-fold increase in power potential. So theoretically, a turbine in an area with average wind speeds of 26 mph will actually generate eight times more electricity than one set up where wind speeds average 13 mph. It's "theoretically" because in real-world condition, there is a limit to how much energy a turbine can extract from the wind. It's called the Betz limit, and it's about 59 percent. But a small increase in wind speed still leads to a significant increase in power output

And from the Iowa Energy Center.

Wind Power Wind power is a measure of the energy available in the wind. It is a function of the cube (third power) of the wind speed. If the wind speed is doubled, power in the wind increases by a factor of eight (23). This relationship means that small differences in wind speed lead to large differences in power. For example, assume that one person takes a speed measurement of 10 mph and another person, at the same time but at a neighboring site, gets a reading of 12.6 mph. For this difference of 2.6 mph, there is a 100% difference in the available wind power (103 = 1000 vs. 12.63 = 2000)! This example points out that minor differences in wind speed due either to site selection or measurement errors can have a major bearing on a decision to invest in a wind turbine. - See more at: http://www.iowaenergycenter.org/wind....DN0CwOTU.dpuf
Pw=1/2 x air density x swept area x velocity3

The power reducing by 8 times does not necessarily mean the turbine will drop production by 8 times. We are talking about the potential power in the wind, not production. Some might some might not. There are many different designs and manufactures and although they have many similarities they are different machines.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.