Northwestern Wisconsin Questions

[Fin Bender]

Originally Posted by C&K

They only got 37 in all of zone 1 running them with dogs after selling 1,100 tags. That's because the wolf numbers are not even close to what they claim. Wolves are noisy, stupid animals that can't survive outside the pack. .

This is 100% wrong. Not sure what season you're refering too but in any case it's just wrong. The zone has reached or gone over quota in every season. So saying "only 37" is missleading, it's the case because that's the maximum the law would allow.

In the 20-21' season they got 53 in zone one. 86% were taken with the aid of dogs. The quota (31) was reached in 24 hours, but total havest exceeded quota because the law requires 24 hour notice before the season offically closes. That's right, 70% over quota in zone 1 in 2 days.

In the 14-15' season, which began on oct. 15th, the quota was reached in 4 days and NO wolves were taken with the aid of dogs. The quota was 33. 36 were havested. Most were taken in traps.

I say that this shows there are many more wolves than estimated. If you want to check these numbers or do more reading the reports are available here: https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/hunt/wolf/index.html


Also, the picture you posted was in several newspapers back in 2019. Is that your picuture or one you scabbed off the net? You didn't say. Anyway, something about that pic never made sense to me. It was reported as being taken in Wisconsin at a bear bait site. The baiting site pictured shows a metal barrel for bait. Using any metal container for bear bait is illegal in Wisconsin.... kind of makes you go Hummmmmm.....

[ToThe Woods]

I thought that exact same thin Fin. Glad you clarified that because it was itching the brain pretty good. I knew if it was in Wisconsin it was an illegal bait but I couldn't for the life of me figure out why the picture seemed familiar.


I think the only thing correct in those paragraphs was the spelling of Wolf and cat

[gbin]

So many wildlife experts here at WC, their "expertise" being born of hysterical fear and macho hero fantasy and "supported" by their selective use of numbers they found somewhere online and their gross misstatements concerning same...

To those not in the throes of such fear or fantasy: Don't be fooled by all of the pretenders. There are REAL wildlife experts out there, with considerable education, experience and scientific data behind them. Many of them work in state wildlife agencies such as WI's DNR, and many more are based elsewhere but collaborate with those dedicated professionals. You'd be far wiser to put the weight of your belief behind them and their data, not partisan politicians, their partisan political appointees, OR self-deluded people who post anonymously to internet message boards in furtherance of their uninformed opinions.

Gerry

[C&K]

Where do people come up with this? That is not a bear bait site. Bear bait barrels have holes in them. Those are the garbage cans, sealed and tied to the tree so the bears and coons don't scatter it all over the woods. The game cam was set up to see what animals it is that tries to rip the garbage cans apart all the time. When you live off-grid there's not too many options to store your garbage until you haul it out. Put it in plastic bags or garbage cans it will be all over the woods.

The quota in Zone 1 was 31 wolves. There was actually 37 killed.

There's a lot of deer kills found in the North Woods that get blamed on wolves, when it's actually cats. A big male cat will kill 3 deer a week. They eat about 18-20 lbs of meat off it and leave the rest, they never come back to it. Cats are unique in that they can't store fat so they need fresh meat on a bi-daily basis.

Bobcats will find the carcass and feed on it and compete with the wolves and bears for what's left. But it has nothing to do with energy expenditure for the cats. They roam 1000+ square miles a day when they're out on patrol. The cats that live here are not your desperate scrawny western-states cats that can barely find enough to feed their cubs so they go after beef calves instead, or come around where humans live looking for food. To the untrained eye a cat kill will look like a wolf kill because the wolves obliterate any signs of the cat being there after they find the carcass. But I got news for DNR - we've watched these cats here for 50 years all while the DNR claimed they don't exist here. Just last year a couple bow hunters found a fresh cat kill and they reported it to the DNR as a wolf kill. A big cat had been seen in Barron Co around 30 miles south earlier and the DNR woman from Spooner suspected it was not a wolf kill. She confirmed it as a cat kill - the cat had broken the deer's back. But if would've been found a couple days later it would've been chalked up as a wolf kill.

[Hat Trick]

Originally Posted by Fin Bender

Do U have a pic U can post?

Yes. I'd love to see 180 pound cat.

[Hat Trick]

Originally Posted by C&K

Yeah, we got a couple photos of him. Must be in a different computer, can't find 'em in this one. Few years ago the DNR had the wild idea to try to catch one they seen over by Spooner there someplace and put a collar on it. But they never did catch it. They treed it once and shot it with a dart, which failed to stop it. The cat leaped like 30 feet over the dogs and left the scene and it was smart by then - it wouldn't tree no more. They chased it into the swamps and jungle of the North Woods and lost the track. Then the DNR, obviously outsmarted by the cat, said they gave up on it because the cat was "stressed out". The cat wasn't "stressed out" - it was more like long gone. Them cats can reach speeds of 50 mph thru brush so thick it takes dogs and people a whole day to get thru it. They are extremely powerful, but quite beautiful animals. We kinda like having 'em here.

https://www.presspubs.com/cougar-spo...9c48cc32e.html

I love these stories.

[gbin]

Originally Posted by C&K

... I got news for DNR - we've watched these cats here for 50 years all while the DNR claimed they don't exist here...

WI DNR doesn't claim that cougars don't exist in the state. In fact, they regularly report sightings of these animals on their website (click on the tab labeled "Sightings"):

https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/Wild...at/cougar.html

Quoting them:

"While there have been several verified sightings of cougars in Wisconsin in recent years, there is currently no evidence that they are breeding here."

Biologically, there's a world of difference between having an animal occasionally show up somewhere and having a viable population of them residing there. These folks are actual biologists, so of course they make note of that difference.

Gerry

[Hat Trick]

Originally Posted by C&K

I believe this was a misinformation campaign run by a certain Lauri Groskopf. The wolves are just another DNR-managed animal, a revenue source to sell hunting tags because they draw a high number of out-of-staters at $251 a crack. For those that live in the various wolf zones in the North Woods the wolves have a high mortality rate from natural causes - usually lead poisoning, which is quite common in the North Woods due to the high concentration of lead in the air. They only got 37 in all of zone 1 running them with dogs after selling 1,100 tags. That's because the wolf numbers are not even close to what they claim. Wolves are noisy, stupid animals that can't survive outside the pack. They'll go after beef calves in a fenced pasture before they'll go to all the work to try to take down an adult deer when there's not deep snow, and then they usually die from the lead poisoning. The packs are quite small - usually only 3 or 4.

These are your main deer consumer outside of humans in the North Woods. A 180-200 lb cat takes down an adult deer about once every 3 days and it's all they eat. They only come out and hunt at night and there's way more of them than people think. But they are rarely seen during the day. These are not your scrawny western-states cats that have difficulty finding food and feeding their cubs. They are the absolute apex predator of the Wisconsin North Woods and they will track down and kill any coyote or wolf pack that dares intrude on what the cat considers to be its "territory". 50 years of living here and hunting in the North Woods, we find remnants of cat kills all the time. Cat kills are different from wolf pack kills - the cat only eats the choice parts, then goes and gets a fresh one. They don't actually eat the coyotes or wolves they kill. They'll carry those to the edge of their "territory", scratch a bunch of leaves and sticks over it and take a piss on it. Cat piss has a really strong smell that even a human can pick up a couple hundred feet downwind. That's supposed to be a warning to the ones still walking to keep out.

Edit:
When a cat kills a wild dog they don't kill 'em right away. The cats can run 40-50 mph in a short 1/2 mile burst - if they get one in their sights there is no escape. They'll break its back and let it suffer for awhile. Sometimes the cat will even appear to leave and watch the wild dog from a distance while it drags itself around on its front legs yipping and whining. When the cat gets tired of it, it grabs the wild dog by the neck in back of the head, bites thru and it's all done. Taking down a deer they'll break the deer's back, then grab it by the throat and suffocate it. Same thing as the wild dogs, there's no whitetail deer that can outrun a big cat. Deer can only run about 30 mph. The cat can run 10-20 mph faster than that, it outweighs the deer by usually around 40-50 lbs and it is immensely more powerful with weapons built into its feet and jaws. It's why the cats never bother cattle in this area. There humans involved with cattle and the cats avoid humans like the plague - and their main food supply is easy prey.

Is that the 180 pound cat?

[ToThe Woods]

Originally Posted by gbin

So many wildlife experts here at WC, their "expertise" being born of hysterical fear and macho hero fantasy and "supported" by their selective use of numbers they found somewhere online and their gross misstatements concerning same...

To those not in the throes of such fear or fantasy: Don't be fooled by all of the pretenders. There are REAL wildlife experts out there, with considerable education, experience and scientific data behind them. Many of them work in state wildlife agencies such as WI's DNR, and many more are based elsewhere but collaborate with those dedicated professionals. You'd be far wiser to put the weight of your belief behind them and their data, not partisan politicians, their partisan political appointees, OR self-deluded people who post anonymously to internet message boards in furtherance of their uninformed opinions.





Gerry

You have that response saved somewhere I see. We have already established in a previous post your credibility (or lack there of) but hey you keep trying I'm sure someone will believe the smog you spew.


Still waiting to see those credentials you spoke of out here and those you worked with.

[Fin Bender]

Originally Posted by C&K

Where do people come up with this?

The Superior Telegram and the Duluth News Tribune both ran the picture you posted, and both reported it as a bear bait site. So they are the ones that "came up with it." Now, why is a metal barrel being used to hold bear bait in wisconsin? Hole or no hole it's illegal. Again, is this your picture or one you heisted from the internet? Why do you feel you know more about this picture than major news sources that originally ran the photos in 2019?

I'm not saying they arn't in the state, I know they are occasional visitors. I've been to the DNR web-site that gbin linked many times. I'm just questioning the one picture that you posted.

Well, I guess that's not all I'm questioning. I really want to see just one of the pictures you took of the 180lb cat that lives in your backyard. You know, the one that started all of this.