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  #11  
Old 04-06-2020, 10:37 AM
Aspencreek Aspencreek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddog View Post
I think theres alot more chemical put down these days, because nobody seems to want to drive like its winter conditions. Pre treating roads. salt, etc.
Very true, besides the salt, pickling juice (the mixture they spray on the roads in anticipation of a storm), besides the heavier loads, increased use, freeze /thaw, all of it results in roads in not so great shape. But if you google road repair, there are some pretty neat ideas floating around, like the use of old tires to repair large degraded areas and potholes.
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  #12  
Old 04-06-2020, 11:34 AM
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Mike W1 Mike W1 is online now
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Watched a local hwy job a couple years back redoing blacktop. There were visible cross lines on it a month afterwards and next spring it was readily apparent those were defects of some sort from the gitgo. I suspect but don't know how to build a road myself, the lifts should have been thicker.

Then there's the contractor that seems to get the new concrete jobs. If he's ever done a decent road noone I know ever drove on it.

Best road in the area was redone years ago and I was working in that area at the time. Tore out all the concrete and put down thick blacktop. 20 odd years later it's still the smoothest road in the area.
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  #13  
Old 04-06-2020, 12:50 PM
djcoop52 djcoop52 is offline
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Roads that will last a very long time are not hard to build but cost a huge sum of money and take a lot of time. Neither one of those two things are what our transportation system allows. Its all about the base most roads fail because the base is not designed for the traffic loads and weights that are on them. Also no one wants to wait for the repairs to get done when you lay asphalt over the top and turn traffic loose on it the same day or even next day it will never last. We have sections by us that fail constantly but the base has not been re-done since the road was put in in the 60s. Most of our interstates built in that time frame was never designed for the volume of traffic on them now. They just did Rt 47 by us its now open brand new road and the concrete roadbed has no rebar talked to some of the guys working for that contractor and was told it is some new mix designed by the state not there choice. They put rebar dowels between the lane pours and epoxy rebar at the bridges but the main road beds have no bar or mesh. I hope they know what they are doing but I don't see that lasting.
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  #14  
Old 04-06-2020, 01:23 PM
clawman clawman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspencreek View Post
Very true, besides the salt, pickling juice (the mixture they spray on the roads in anticipation of a storm), besides the heavier loads, increased use, freeze /thaw, all of it results in roads in not so great shape. But if you google road repair, there are some pretty neat ideas floating around, like the use of old tires to repair large degraded areas and potholes.
Near my winter home In Scottsdale AZ they use that rubberized ashpalt compound in the entire overlay. It is durable and cuts the sound to almost nothing
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  #15  
Old 04-06-2020, 02:39 PM
Custom Eyes Custom Eyes is online now
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They have been resurfacing roads near me with some type of epoxy/gravel mixture for a few years and it seems to be holding up great. They grind the top layer of asphalt off, then put that coating and gravel down, let it cure, then sweep the loose gravel off.
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  #16  
Old 04-07-2020, 06:21 AM
Bill Krejca Bill Krejca is offline
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Re: New streets in new neighborhoods. It is a noticeable factor that, although removal is required by law, old field tile seems to not be removed, and then the cement trucks going to new housing continuously pass over. Result is cement cracks in streets nor much more than 10 years old.

Bill
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  #17  
Old 04-07-2020, 06:33 AM
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Clairebear Clairebear is offline
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Asphalt needs to be applied HOT to a well prepared base and compaction is the biggest component in how long it lasts. Heavy slow rolling of hot asphalt.
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  #18  
Old 04-07-2020, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djcoop52 View Post
Roads that will last a very long time are not hard to build but cost a huge sum of money and take a lot of time. Neither one of those two things are what our transportation system allows. Its all about the base most roads fail because the base is not designed for the traffic loads and weights that are on them. Also no one wants to wait for the repairs to get done when you lay asphalt over the top and turn traffic loose on it the same day or even next day it will never last. We have sections by us that fail constantly but the base has not been re-done since the road was put in in the 60s. Most of our interstates built in that time frame was never designed for the volume of traffic on them now. They just did Rt 47 by us its now open brand new road and the concrete roadbed has no rebar talked to some of the guys working for that contractor and was told it is some new mix designed by the state not there choice. They put rebar dowels between the lane pours and epoxy rebar at the bridges but the main road beds have no bar or mesh. I hope they know what they are doing but I don't see that lasting.
That road is great to travel on, right now. I take it frequently when driving up to Aurora airport when I fly small planes.

Same company did a concrete overlay on the existing asphalt base. Rt 53 south of Elwood Illinois at the national tall grass prairie. It’s been a few years and it’s getting bad. From what I’m told this was something new the state wanted to try to prevent the costly base rebuild. Now they know. Not contractors fault.

As others have said, roads can be built right to last but it can be very costly. It’s a balance of cost, durability and budget allowances. At least in the municipal bids I work on in the Chicago area.
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  #19  
Old 04-07-2020, 06:53 AM
Tdobb Tdobb is offline
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I honestly think that the way they lay out separate lanes and then roll them with the big hot compactor is one of the issues. No real way around doing it that way but they could do something for the seam between the lanes. That seam between lanes is the first spot to go. You get some snow, chemicals are applied, it melts down and that melted chemical mixture seeps into the seam, overnight it freezes and starts to cause the cracks. The next day as traffic passes thru any of the granules that broke off from the freeze come off the seam as people change lanes, just allowing the chemical slush mixture a path to deeper cracks the following day.

I really think some research ought to go into the seam treatment on initial install and we would probably see an improvement with longevity if they were to put down a rubberized sealant and trowel it. Could be something attached to the equipment they already use.

Another thing, here in Minnesota the contractors can NEVER get a man hole cover aligned with the road. I'm talking one side will be 1" down and the other side is 4" down, they will tear your vehicle up bad.
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  #20  
Old 04-07-2020, 08:08 AM
Aspencreek Aspencreek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clawman View Post
Near my winter home In Scottsdale AZ they use that rubberized ashpalt compound in the entire overlay. It is durable and cuts the sound to almost nothing
I have been on those roads, very nice. But it is easier to build a road in the desert or in the south for that matter as compared to here in WI, MI, MN,SD, ND, etc. We have winter, with constant freeze/thaw/freeze thaw and then the frost levels reaching 4' or better under the roads from constant pounding. I surely do not know the solution, but no matter what the answer is, it is going to be expensive.
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