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  #51  
Old 06-27-2020, 09:13 AM
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gbin gbin is offline
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[QUOTE=DW;6457580]You cant speak as a scientist or represent science having abandoned the scientific method and falsified the data. How do you explain Climategate and persecution of scientists that challenge the rhetoric? How do you ignore the warm climate of the 1920s and 1930s with data manipulation to accentuate the appearance of climate warming culminating in the 1990s? Or the 1200s which is warmer than today? Or the mini ice age associated with the maunder minimum that devastated Europe in the 16-1700s? Why exclude all the climate history before 1970 in order to support a theory?

Best of all why did the British Columbia Supreme Court reject Michael Mannís defamation suit when he refused to release to the Court his (publicly financed) data forming basis for his infamous hockey stick graph which, from the warmists standpoint, formed the basis for the IPCC initial report?

Lets talk science!!![/QUOTE]

Iíve been talking science. Letís talk instead about anti-science/scientist propaganda such as your post actually consists of...

I see youíve already been pushed into employing the ďbury them with bull$hitĒ strategy, which I also knew was coming at some point. (You folks should really try to change things up once in a while, be less predictable and easily dealt with.)

Folks, every single bit of dishonest propaganda that DW just spewed out against the science/scientists focusing on climate-changing pollution has been thoroughly debunked time and time again. The reason that the propagandists keep churning it and that those theyíve duped keep pushing it DESPITE KNOWING THIS is the same reason that at some point they try just dumping a whole lot of it on a conversation all at one time: It takes much more time and effort to genuinely educate than it does to misinform. The hope is that the side relying on factual information will get busy or exhausted and go away, or uncertain onlookers will get bored and go away. I suppose it works a lot of the time, too.

Thatís a big part of why the following website was created, to help people educate others on climate-changing pollution despite such nonsense. Give it a look and youíll see that pretty much every bit of dishonest propaganda youíll ever hear targeting the science/scientists involved has been thoroughly debunked there, with links to factual source material that you can delve more deeply into on your own. I really canít recommend it strongly enough to anyone who actually prefers reason over rhetoric:

[url]https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php[/url]

[QUOTE=Bobby Winds;6457588]And Gerry's response is.........[/QUOTE]

Keep working on your reading comprehension, Bob, maybe find a tutor to help you with the harder words. Youíll get there! :thumbsup:

I know nothing about the recycling of nuclear waste, Tom. How does that work?

Gerry
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  #52  
Old 06-27-2020, 10:24 AM
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David Anderson David Anderson is offline
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Gerry,

About the only thing that us Walleye Central folks can agree on is that we all enjoy walleye fishing. I call Bobby my brother from another mother, and from that standpoint I tend to agree with most of his positions, and it's not because I run an E-tec. It doesn't matter the topic, especially this one, it's not hard to find a website to support your own view, like this one I really enjoy, a respected gentleman from Pepperdine giving a lecture at Hillsdale College:[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZlICdawHRA&t=519s[/url] and I would stack that up to your site [url]www.skepticalscience.com[/url] any day...why because it supports my position just like yours supports your opinion. Even if you watch this, I doubt it will change your position, yours didn't move me! So is it worth arguing crap like this? I do agree with my fellow members here that point out the hypocrisy, and because you insist on moving this along, your new Ranger is an easy target, Heck my new 25 hp Mercury on my jon boat can go a month without filling while my G2 which gets excellent fuel economy yet at 37 mph I burn 10 gallons an hour, 10X as much gas. Enjoy your new 620FS, I certainly do, and don't feel bad filling the 51 gallon tank with gasoline in something that burns 5X more gas than the truck you pulled it with. I had to laugh, my neighbor follows your same logic among other opposite views, that's fine however he posted on his Facebook that going in public without a mask these days is like telling the people that you don't care. I pointed out that having your son's help you install new shingles on your roof without providing safety harnesses tell them you don't care about them.......he who throws stones best not live in glass houses. Of course that's different, but in my mind I just laugh. So check out the video at 22:00 and listen to the target numbers. Your not going to feel very good about buying that boat so maybe not! I really hope you enjoy your new rig, I know it's on it's way being transported by a dirty diesel truck (along with almost everything you use). It's just like Bobby, take a position and eventually it can come back to you, he took a lot of flack when after years of promoting E-Tec's until Evinrude stopped making them, there was a parade of members ready to point this out this to him. My old boss used to say to me, "it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought as a fool than to open it and leave no doubt". It's a wonder this topic is still up. Like I said, you and I don't agree on human induced climate change, that doesn't mean either of us are wrong. Enjoy that Ranger as eventually we have something we agree on!!!
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Last edited by David Anderson; 06-27-2020 at 10:34 AM.
  #53  
Old 06-27-2020, 10:27 AM
Ozark Bob Ozark Bob is offline
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This is going nowhere fast. Down to name calling and down talking. Nobody is changing anybody's mind. Let it be for now. Bob
  #54  
Old 06-27-2020, 12:04 PM
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gbin gbin is offline
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[QUOTE=David Anderson;6457660]About the only thing that us Walleye Central folks can agree on is that we all enjoy walleye fishing. I call Bobby my brother from another mother, and from that standpoint I tend to agree with most of his positions, and it's not because I run an E-tec. It doesn't matter the topic, especially this one, it's not hard to find a website to support your own view, like this one I really enjoy, a respected gentleman from Pepperdine giving a lecture at Hillsdale College:[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZlICdawHRA&t=519s[/URL] and I would stack that up to your site [URL="http://www.skepticalscience.com"]www.skepticalscience.com[/URL] any day...why because it supports my position just like yours supports your opinion. Even if you watch this, I doubt it will change your position, yours didn't move me!...[/QUOTE]

I actually tend to think that in general we here at WC have a lot more uniting than we do dividing us, and finding ourselves occasionally on opposite sides of an issue - even one as important as climate-changing pollution - doesn't change that. I've gotten to know both you and Bob at least a bit through this forum, and even with his obvious rough edges, I've come to like both of you and to look forward to meeting you in person. This discussion hasn't changed that in the slightest. :cheers:

But until people demonstrate themselves to be unworthy of it, I endeavor to treat them respectfully. I would feel I was being disrespectful toward a potential friend were I not to be honest with you here:

You are of course free to believe whatever you wish and for whatever reason(s) you choose. You are also free to imagine that a known political operative and shill for the fossil fuel industry such as Steven F. Hayward is just as trustworthy as an incredible consensus of scientists backed by an already astonishing and still growing amount of scientific evidence.

But it's simply not so. There is a profound difference between a belief based on things such as preconception, personal bias and ignorance (not to mention a belief one is paid to hold and assert) and one based on scientific evidence. Pretending that they're just different-but-equal opinions is exactly that: merely a pretense. Science has proven its worth to humanity many, many times over, and the data, analyses and expertise that scientists accumulate practicing it is a reflection of that worth. You do not only them but also yourself a real disservice by not recognizing this, but that's really for you to deal with, not me. Maybe you'll eventually recognize your error - a lot of people have, in recent years - and maybe you won't. I tried to help, anyway, and that's all I can do.

As for the matter of what you call my "hypocrisy," I've amply addressed that, too. If you're not satisfied then that's for you to deal with, as well. For my part, I'm content.

I've always said that there are 2 kinds of people who can make an entire career for themselves in wildlife/wild lands conservation: those who can perpetually delude themselves into thinking they can make a critical difference thereby, and those who see things more realistically but also see the effort in and of itself as worthwhile, regardless. There are lots of ways to live, after all, and fighting the good fight is as good a way as any other, and far better than most.

So me, I'm content to try, and leave it at that.

Gerry
  #55  
Old 06-27-2020, 01:30 PM
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Bobby Winds Bobby Winds is offline
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Here's the thing Gerry.........I started hunting/fishing at a young age of 3 years old with my dad. I fished Lake Erie when it was declared a dead sea and still caught fish. We had a cottage for the month of August at Van Buren Point and the water was so bad that you could actually throw a rock the size of a golf ball into the lake and it would just sit there on top of a LOT of gunk that was locked into that bay. I remember my dad and others taking rakes out there to clear a path so we could run a 14' boat beyond the gunk. And we caught walleyes once past the gunk. Then on night a big storm came in and it was all gone :)

I have seen the population of walleye, bass, crappie, lake trout, brown trout, steelhead, salmon and perch rise and fall and rise again in Erie, Ontario, Chautauqua, Kinzua, Oneida, Silver, Conesus, Honeyoe plus many other lakes.

We now see eagles and cormorants that we never had before.........I could go on and on and on and on.

Water and air has never been better since I have been alive but it's never enough for the tree huggers.

Gerry, WHEN IS ENOUGH........I paid my dues and now I just want to pursue my life and enjoyment without others telling me how I must act according to their wishes.

WHEN IS ENOUGH ! ! !
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  #56  
Old 06-27-2020, 01:46 PM
MikeF MikeF is online now
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Anybody know the over/under on which one gets the last word?
  #57  
Old 06-27-2020, 02:45 PM
Custom Eyes Custom Eyes is online now
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[QUOTE=Bobby Winds;6457722]Here's the thing Gerry.........I started hunting/fishing at a young age of 3 years old with my dad. I fished Lake Erie when it was declared a dead sea and still caught fish. We had a cottage for the month of August at Van Buren Point and the water was so bad that you could actually throw a rock the size of a golf ball into the lake and it would just sit there on top of a LOT of gunk that was locked into that bay. I remember my dad and others taking rakes out there to clear a path so we could run a 14' boat beyond the gunk. And we caught walleyes once past the gunk. Then on night a big storm came in and it was all gone :)

I have seen the population of walleye, bass, crappie, lake trout, brown trout, steelhead, salmon and perch rise and fall and rise again in Erie, Ontario, Chautauqua, Kinzua, Oneida, Silver, Conesus, Honeyoe plus many other lakes.

[B]We now see eagles and cormorants that we never had before.........I could go on and on and on and on.

Water and air has never been better since I have been alive[/B] but it's never enough for the tree huggers.

Gerry, WHEN IS ENOUGH........I paid my dues and now I just want to pursue my life and enjoyment without others telling me how I must act according to their wishes.

WHEN IS ENOUGH ! ! ![/QUOTE]

And you know why that is now and wasn't before?? One word, coal!! As coal is being phased out and made to burn cleaner, the heavy metals and other toxins that were adversely effecting wildlife dissipated and billions upon billions of $$ have been spent to clean up that mess coal plants produced.
 

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