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  #41  
Old 06-05-2019, 12:15 PM
unchained unchained is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwalleye1 View Post
I see the draw, but I'm curious vs the payoff side vs the cost side of the equation, when you consider costs per mile, battery replacement, the life of the vehicle and the cost to generate the electricity. Not trying to turn it into a debate, but I've got a coworker that's long on the brag about how he's doing good for the environment. I keep pointing out to him that his actions require additional use of fossil fuels by guys like me with diesel trucks and 5th wheel campers and boats to keep the environment in harmonic balance.
addressing your concerns individually:

costs per mile are pretty good. While they're more expensive to buy, they depreciate less overall than gas cars, and electricity costs about 1/8th to 1/12th of gasoline cost to go the same distance (depends where you live).

battery replacement...there are teslas with 300,000 miles on their first battery. 300,000 miles would take most of us 20 years to do. If you're concerned the cars come with an 8 year warranty on battery and drivetrain which compares favourably with almost any vehicle out there. There's a couple of teslas who have had battery replaced under warranty and are pushing 600,000 miles now. The cars are holding up really well weirdly...considering the company is so new.

electricity is cheap compared to gas. 6 cents per kwh at my house and my car goes about 240 miles for 75 kwh of electricity. Translation - for a large, 5 passenger luxury sedan, I pay about 1.9 cents per mile for my 'fuel'. A car this size would get maybe 20 miles / gallon combined and that's around 14 cents per mile at the national average.

Buying one for the environment is a bit early...battery tech is dirty business, you still need the grid to charge and the grid is anywhere from 10% to 70% fossil fuel powered depending where you live so you're not saving the world buying one. But it's still better than a gas or diesel car. I can't stand the pious tesla owners crowing about what great people they are...and that's coming from a tesla owners. I crow about my car because I think it's flat out a better option. Fortunately all the car companies are getting on board so soon there will be lots of great, affordable options for everyone.

Last edited by unchained; 06-05-2019 at 12:18 PM.
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  #42  
Old 06-05-2019, 12:30 PM
unchained unchained is offline
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made a few corrections:

1. model 3 long range version gets about 300 miles / charge in good conditions, about 200/charge in winter.

2. charging at a supercharger from 0% to 100% takes about an hr, but you'll never do that.
At most you'll charge from 10% to 80% and that takes about 35-40 minutes on the older cars and the older superchargers. With the new cars with newest battery tech and the latest release of superchargers, adding 200 miles of range will take only about 10 minutes . Supercharger power has been upped from 120 kw to 150 kw recently and the new version will deliver 300 kw.

3. charging at home at 240v adds about 25-50 miles per hr depending on your car's internal charging equipment. Charging at a 110v plug gets about 3 miles per hr connected.

4. filling up at a supercharger is free for all model S and model X built before 2018, and is still free for many more built after then. Otherwise, going from 0 to full will likely cost about $20 at a supercharger. Again though, nobody goes from 0 to full at a supercharger other than extreme cases. You pop in, plug in, add your 100-150 miles of range you need, and you're out of there in about 15-25 minutes after you've grabbed a bathroom break. You can always charge it more fully if you want to get a meal or something. reality is that you will supercharge charge maybe once or twice per day on a long long journey, and I reckon most people will eat and go to the bathroom that many times so you just time it appropriately.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hnd View Post
we have mostly tesla model 3's. they get about 400 miles of range in the summer.

Charging at a super charger takes about an hour.

charging with a home charger (240v) you get about 3 miles of drive time and hour. so its slower.

a fill up at a super charger runs about 5 bucks if you are empty.
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  #43  
Old 06-05-2019, 01:13 PM
hnd hnd is offline
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yeah your numbers are probably more accurate. i don't really deal with them if i can help it. I took one to nebraska for a business meeting in january. I told the company to go pound sand on my february trip and drove my truck as i had to make 4 stops to get to lincoln in the model 3. and only 1 supercharger would go above 100kwh. so what is normally a 6 hour drive took 10 hours.



once it hits 80% charging slows down tremendously. we have 2 destination chargers at the office that they said goes 18ish



we have a guy at work with a model x one of the first ones and its range is down to only 200 as all he does is supercharge and its apparently hard on the batteries.
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  #44  
Old 06-05-2019, 01:35 PM
unchained unchained is offline
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Originally Posted by Steven Pederson View Post
i'd be surprised if Tesla survived... Especially now that all the other auto makers will have new if not better products on the table in the next 2-3 years.
name one product that another automaker is bringing out in the next 2-3 years that is better than any tesla? The truth is they are all making joke electric cars because they make more money selling gas cars and they don't want to cannibalize their own business. Have you not noticed that the only desirable electric cars are made by the company that only makes electric cars? Tesla. That's not a mistake. Ford/BMW/MB/Audi/GM/FCA etc. don't want to make something you'll want. Because it hurts their real business. Funny huh?

also, how are you going to charge your 'other automaker' electric car on a trip across the state? public charging infrastructure? Good luck, it's garbage. Until those 'other automakers' spend billions on a charging network and on retooling their entire business for electric cars, Tesla will be fine. That's another 10 years at least because the shareholders of those margin constrained traditional automakers won't stand for the expenditures. Senior management knows this too.

Also, if you didn't notice, Tesla's plan wasn't to be the biggest, most profitable automaker. Their plan was to change the world. That has happened, as people are now looking to an electric car future. How have they demonstrated that this was their plan? They gave all of their patents to the 'other automakers' to help them get off their ***.

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/blog/all...are-belong-you
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  #45  
Old 06-05-2019, 01:43 PM
unchained unchained is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnd View Post
once it hits 80% charging slows down tremendously. we have 2 destination chargers at the office that they said goes 18ish
yeah, nebraska likely isn't ready yet...the supercharger rollout has been impressive but as I noted in an earlier post, if you're rural, and drive long distances, maybe wait a while lol

you shouldn't be charging past 80% anyway, so that's kind of the point. That's why it slows down...to remind you to get moving. If you need that last 10-20% to make it to the next charging point, then as noted above, probably not the right trip for a tesla until they build out superchargers in that area better. Here, I can go in any direction and superchargers are spaced every 100 miles. Non-issue. With one exception...due north of me, I can go about 300 miles and then the superchargers just stop. OF course that's WAY up northern ontario, so not surprising.

Quote:
we have a guy at work with a model x one of the first ones and its range is down to only 200 as all he does is supercharge and its apparently hard on the batteries.
what did he start at? If it's a model x 75D it probably wasn't much higher. Seeing 4-5% of your range 'disappear' over the first few years is normal, then it tapers off. If he's only supercharging it can be hard, but it's not a big deal if you supercharge to 80% then go. If you're always pounding in that last 20%, sure it limits battery life but again, if he started at 212 miles max range, and now has 200, that's not a big deal. Reality is you never really use the battery from 90-100% other than some extreme situations.

The neat thing is if his battery degrades out of spec and has a problem, he probably has another 7 years of warranty, so he needn't really worry about a thing.
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  #46  
Old 06-05-2019, 01:59 PM
unchained unchained is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Winds View Post
Telsa is going to start paying MILLIONS in fines to NYS starting next year if things don't get better...... it's a house of cards . . . .

https://www.wivb.com/news/investigat...ant/1754568826

https://buffalonews.com/2019/01/19/d...-it-cuts-jobs/
millions? they did $22 billion in revenue last year.
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  #47  
Old 06-05-2019, 02:00 PM
DW DW is offline
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Originally Posted by vteye3 View Post
DW - The sun is renewable, clean and removes not adds to the grid. Ok, miniscule add if you are charging your car but not a zero sum. If you are charging your car off the sun-solar PV rooftop
you are reducing the load on the grid. You are also lessening our dependence on foreign oil.
As an EV owner, if you elect to install a solar rooftop generator, why would you dedicate the power to your EV, instead of using it for your household power, and sell (backward metering) any surplus to your power company for your neighbor’s consumption? Why would you change your day job to a night job so you could charge your EV in daylight hours? Or, if you insist on keeping your day job, more than doubling your cost for the solar installation with the cost of household batteries to capture the solar power in the daylight to charge your EV at night?

Well, you won’t!

Quit talking foolishness. Some of us are trying to be serious.
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  #48  
Old 06-05-2019, 02:10 PM
unchained unchained is offline
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Originally Posted by DW View Post
As an EV owner, if you elect to install a solar rooftop generator, why would you dedicate the power to your EV, instead of using it for your household power, and sell (backward metering) any surplus to your power company for your neighbor’s consumption? Why would you change your day job to a night job so you could charge your EV in daylight hours? Or, if you insist on keeping your day job, more than doubling your cost for the solar installation with the cost of household batteries to capture the solar power in the daylight to charge your EV at night?

Well, you won’t!

Quit talking foolishness. Some of us are trying to be serious.
or store it in a powerwall and then use it whenever you want. Generate during day, run house during day and charge car with stored energy.
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  #49  
Old 06-05-2019, 02:13 PM
DW DW is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Pederson View Post
One thing that seems to be missing from this conversation is the removal of pollutants in the air for respiratory reasons in high density areas. If the current grid can handle it, it would remove those pollutants and increase the quality of life for those people. Albeit, the average car is 11 years old so it wouldn't be recognized for 1-2 decades.

It's not only carbon pollutants, but you have to think of brake dust as well for people next to highways, or sitting in traffic. Nasty stuff. For the most part the electric motors are able to slow vehicles with little to no brake activity.

Love it or hate it, i see this being the future. I also think for the truck market you would need an on-board generator at some capacity for heavy load hauling, and range extension in remote areas.
This is called the California model: export pollution to someone else’s backyard.
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  #50  
Old 06-05-2019, 02:14 PM
Steven Pederson Steven Pederson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unchained View Post
name one product that another automaker is bringing out in the next 2-3 years that is better than any tesla? The truth is they are all making joke electric cars because they make more money selling gas cars and they don't want to cannibalize their own business. Have you not noticed that the only desirable electric cars are made by the company that only makes electric cars? Tesla. That's not a mistake. Ford/BMW/MB/Audi/GM/FCA etc. don't want to make something you'll want. Because it hurts their real business. Funny huh?

also, how are you going to charge your 'other automaker' electric car on a trip across the state? public charging infrastructure? Good luck, it's garbage. Until those 'other automakers' spend billions on a charging network and on retooling their entire business for electric cars, Tesla will be fine. That's another 10 years at least because the shareholders of those margin constrained traditional automakers won't stand for the expenditures. Senior management knows this too.

Also, if you didn't notice, Tesla's plan wasn't to be the biggest, most profitable automaker. Their plan was to change the world. That has happened, as people are now looking to an electric car future. How have they demonstrated that this was their plan? They gave all of their patents to the 'other automakers' to help them get off their ***.

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/blog/all...are-belong-you
Rivian?
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