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Old 11-06-2013, 02:01 PM
Macafee walleyes
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Default how can you cheat??

Don't just say guys will cheat. Tell me how its possible. Every fish is posistioned on the board in the same way and every walleye has a different scale pattern just like humans fingerprint. Like 620 said the only fish that would be in question would be the ones with the same measurements. I can tell you with 100% certainty that it is easier to cheat in a cull situation or live weigh in situation than in a CRR format. With Crr format it is impossible to cheat unless you are low enough to have a bag of fish anchored up somewhere and that could be done in any other live weigh circuit.

So don't just tell me Im wrong. Tell me how you would cheat in a AIM tourney. Because trust me there is no way to get away with it. Every photo is there to be verified and every fish has that distinct scale pattern that will set it apart.

I wish the best for every circuit out there. We need them all.
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:22 PM
Justin Schneider Justin Schneider is offline
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Hugo, MN
Posts: 184

I've never fished a CRR format personally but one of the main reasons that draws me to this format is the fact that I feel it will cut down on cheating.

I personally feel that prospective cheaters would have to think long and hard before turning in their SD card with the same fish recorded twice. Lots of unknowns that might now show up until these digital fish pictures are really zoomed in..kinda like a snowflake (as been motioned before).

Can't say the same for those who swap fish out of the live well when there's no one in sight. In that specific instance the evidence is gone as soon as it hits the water, and everything else is hearsay.
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Old 11-06-2013, 03:13 PM
Burr Burr is offline
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Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Moorhead, MN, USA.
Posts: 8,557

There is only one situation that concerns me.

The risk is if the same fish hits the same team's score card twice. There are a few ways that can happen, most of them are illegal, and involve keeping the fish in the boat. That's why I've incorporated boarding boats - primarily motivated by making sure there are no fish in the boat when not actively recording a catch.

There is one situation that I have not figured out. What if, the same team, does indeed catch the same fish twice. That is the only instance I don't know how to guard, and issue a proper weight. Although unlikely, it is possible.

Like everything else, I'm sure I'll learn too.
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Old 11-06-2013, 04:18 PM
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Juls Juls is offline
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Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Port Clinton Ohio
Posts: 12,860

Originally Posted by Burr View Post
I'm not AIM, and can't speak for them, but I've been thinking for a long time about how/if we could have a Team CRR format tournament - and I've arrived at the decision that I believe I can run one, and we announced our first one this year - that will happen next year. As of last night, that has now grown to 2 CRR 2014 Team tournaments (Not AIM tournamnets, FM Walleyes Tournaments).

The key to me is - we will have on the water boat patrols, and we will board boats. Plain and simply - if there is a fish in the livewell - the team is DQ'd.

My biggest concern is a no-nonsence method that will have to be part of the event, and managing mistakes by contestants.
  • If the photo does not show the measurement clearly for verification - it does not count and will be a 0 on the score card
  • If the contestant measures a fish and it hits the 17.5" line, and they write 17.5" on the score card - not 17.75" as it should be (the length is always the .25" more than the last line it touched) then the fish counts as 17.5" - as written and submitted on the score card.
  • All fish measured must be oriented the same way - if you choose head on the left, and belly toward the camera - they all have to be measured that way - or no score.

Contestants will make mistakes, that will result in their weight being lower than it should be, and it's my view the tournament official is not there to correct the contestants errors. It will be learning, and I'm most concerned about that learning curve, and making it as short as possible for our contestants.

Would be interested in hearing what your concerns are - how will the dishonest person cheat and get away with it? On the water patrols, boarding boats, it the key to me. The larger your boundaries, the more on the water patrols you need.

Other than that - I feel I can run a CRR Tournament on less volunteers than a Catch and release tournament - way less staff required, but the skills will be different too.

I wish Eye-Fi Cards worked better, they would really make it convenient to transfer data without having to touch keyboards. But that technology is not there yet.

One day dream I had - if the tournament was where there is solid cell service - have the pictures of fish caught uploaded to our club's facebook page during the tournament. At the end of the day - the score card from posting would be a confirmation bump off the score card handed in. Tail piping would be severe though. Could be a made for TV series scrappy event....

Fished Lundmania for several years, was close to the AYA International Championship for several years - I've gotten to the point I'm comfortable with CRR team format, without an observer.
Nice post... Good luck with your new tournaments. I hope they are successful.

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Guide (Lake Erie Western Basin)
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Old 11-06-2013, 04:21 PM
Papascott Papascott is offline
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Canton, Ohio
Posts: 1,322

Why all the haterade? Juls simply asked a question that was brought up in the aim press release? Man some of you guys are so quick to bash a legit question and get all up in arms over nothing?

I hope its a huge success. Id love fish them some day.
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Old 11-06-2013, 04:29 PM
jet man jet man is offline
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: monticello, minnesota.
Posts: 2,014
Wink gee papa

Originally Posted by Papascott View Post
Why all the haterade? Juls simply asked a question that was brought up in the aim press release? Man some of you guys are so quick to bash a legit question and get all up in arms over nothing?

I hope its a huge success. Id love fish them some day.
haterade is a little over the top don't ya think

I simply did not share the same level of skepticism and passed on my opinion; last time I checked that was legal!
PS:there was no question brought up in the press release; they stated they are comfortable bringing it to a team event.
Bill Sloneker

Last edited by jet man; 11-06-2013 at 04:32 PM. Reason: ps added
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Old 11-06-2013, 05:09 PM
GennyCreamAle GennyCreamAle is offline
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: On The Fish
Posts: 39

I dabble in the tourney scene and was thinking of doing this as a co. Disappointed that it won't happen especially since they were pimping the format with so much on their site.
Guess that it is not going to happen now. As far as the other stuff if cash is involved people will try to beat the*system and the questions asked prior will need to be addressed.
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Old 11-06-2013, 05:42 PM
Jim Carroll Jim Carroll is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Minot, ND, USA.
Posts: 1,665
Default Relevant Questions

The questions Juls and other posters have raised are very legitimate. But I can tell you that AIM is very confident in the CRR process and procedures we have in place to ensure fair competition for all contestants.

I'm not going into the technical details here, but I can assure any anglers thinking about fishing our events that we have thought long and hard about how to safeguard our process from somebody trying to cheat it. As some other posters have said every walleye is unique and that's where it starts with what we do at AIM, but there is far more to it than that.

AIM was founded by tournament anglers, and we try to do everything in the best interests of our anglers and the fish we chase.

Jim Carroll NPAA #13
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Old 11-06-2013, 06:26 PM
pud123 pud123 is offline
Slot Fish
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 130

Having fished both live weigh in and CRR I think if you're going to cheat you're going to cheat no matter which format. Personally I love the CRR format, no babysitting a livewell of fish all day, and way fewer fish that don't swim away after. I'm hoping they pick the Bay for one of the stops this year, my partner and I already talked about it last night. Would be a fun one to fish.
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Old 11-06-2013, 06:53 PM
I Walleye's Avatar
I Walleye I Walleye is offline
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Minneapolis metro area.
Posts: 1,092

I'm really excited for this circuit and it's a great fit for us in Minnesota with all of our slot lakes and goofy fish size populations. I'm really looking forward to hearing the rest of the story and the schedule.

Now, I have done a few CPR events and cheating is hard but it can still be done. I personally think cheaters should be shot at dusk, but there is still a way to cheat in a CPR event.
If there is money involved, cheaters will cheat
Life is like a donut, your either in the dough or in the hole.

John Mickish
NPAA# 379
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